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Author Topic: 5 out of 6 IBR top finishers rode an FJR  (Read 3071 times)

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Online fourstring

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Re: 5 out of 6 IBR top finishers rode an FJR
« Reply #30 on: December 24, 2013, 07:48:27 AM »
Yamaha should add an "*"




*none of the IBR bikes actually looked like this and had major modifications to compete.  :lol:

My first thought.  :lol:  Think the IB finishers looked like that, do they?
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Online wibornz

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Re: 5 out of 6 IBR top finishers rode an FJR
« Reply #31 on: December 24, 2013, 08:58:40 AM »
Just goes to show that Yamaha makes a fine musical equipment, nice generators and a great distance bike.
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Online smoker

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Re: 5 out of 6 IBR top finishers rode an FJR
« Reply #32 on: December 24, 2013, 09:08:50 AM »
But they really need to update the bike completely.  I understand it's a decent bike, but the last two reviews of it I read both called it "horribly outdated" and "clearly not in the same class as it's competition".  Yamaha is my 2nd favorite Japanese brand, and I'd push that FJR before I rode a Honda, but it's time to advance.  The same reason the "new" CBR1000RR is getting blasted for STILL not joining every other liter bike on the planet and having electronics.  I'm sure there are some that say "real" riders don't need electronics.  But no one can deny the benefits of ABS.  I rode a Tuono V4 with a full electronics package and it was mind altering.  The bike was amazing.  The quick shifter makes using a clutch to upshift so 1980's.  You can take off like a funny car from the line and then stand it on it's nose with such ease.  I look forward to riding another FJR.  The blue 2006 was a very good looking, and riding bike.  But I don't think it would out impress me over the new RT.  BMW's bags are also way nicer then the ones on the Yamaha.  I just saw both at the IMS in NYC.  What IS needed is a nice ST bike UNDER 550lbs.  :beerchug:

The new FJR has TC/ABS, ESA, cruise, heated grips standard, electric windscreen, etc. How exactly is it horribly outdated?
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Offline Royal Tiger

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Re: 5 out of 6 IBR top finishers rode an FJR
« Reply #33 on: December 24, 2013, 09:28:28 AM »
But they really need to update the bike completely.  I understand it's a decent bike, but the last two reviews of it I read both called it "horribly outdated" and "clearly not in the same class as it's competition".  Yamaha is my 2nd favorite Japanese brand, and I'd push that FJR before I rode a Honda, but it's time to advance.  The same reason the "new" CBR1000RR is getting blasted for STILL not joining every other liter bike on the planet and having electronics.  I'm sure there are some that say "real" riders don't need electronics.  But no one can deny the benefits of ABS.  I rode a Tuono V4 with a full electronics package and it was mind altering.  The bike was amazing.  The quick shifter makes using a clutch to upshift so 1980's.  You can take off like a funny car from the line and then stand it on it's nose with such ease.  I look forward to riding another FJR.  The blue 2006 was a very good looking, and riding bike.  But I don't think it would out impress me over the new RT.  BMW's bags are also way nicer then the ones on the Yamaha.  I just saw both at the IMS in NYC.  What IS needed is a nice ST bike UNDER 550lbs.  :beerchug:

The new FJR has TC/ABS, ESA, cruise, heated grips standard, electric windscreen, etc. How exactly is it horribly outdated?

I didn't write the articles Shane, and it was about the 2012 if I recall.  This IS a new, or a freshened up FJR, but I still think the lack of a 6th gear in today's marketplace is weak.  Sure the faithful will stand there and say it's not needed, just like BMW people (and I am one) refuse to hear negatives about their bikes.  I think the boxer is adequate, and I routinely take it into the 110mph range, but many call it "needlessly old school".  I love your Connie 14, but it's heavier then I want to go.

And on that note, no one, EVEN BMW, has my bank account on stand by.  The only ST bike under 550 and over 100hp is the Ninja 1000 and it's OK, but certainly not the top of the segment.  The Futura, Sprint, ST4s, 800 Interceptor, are all gone.  The VFR1200 is fugly, over priced, and heavy.  I might have to go with a K1300S, but the bags are marginal and it's just a tick over 550.  I've read as high as 565.
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Re: 5 out of 6 IBR top finishers rode an FJR
« Reply #34 on: December 24, 2013, 09:40:01 AM »
It's not *needed* at all, mechanically. The table-top torque curve and pretty wide RPM range and smooth comfort of top-speed cruising while not lugging the engine at sub-par RPM ranges because of an overdrive gear, all work very nicely.

The only reason to add it is because of market peer pressure, and I for one nod appreciatively to Yamaha for not - so far - bowing to the silliness.

The bike doesn't need it, so it shouldn't be re-engineered for market peer pressure.

That's not faithful blindness talking; that's 3 decades of mechanical know-how and lots of time building and tuning race engines and race cars talking. :thumbsup:

Until someone can show me a dyno chart showing exactly where the bike will benefit from a 6th gear that doesn't include statements like "competitors' products", I'll continue to giggle about how dumb it is for the magazine to say such things.

$.02

I also think Kawasaki's KiPASS is dumb.
I think BMW's mechanical headlight system is dumb.
I think putting a 6 speed gear box in a 100-footpound 5000 rpm cruiser is dumb.
I think the idea of pairing ABS ONLY with the DCT is a dumb move by Honda.
I think continuing to NOT put belt drive in long distance bikes is dumb.

In sure, making something "better" by adding stuff that doesn't really solve a problem and only adds check marks to a feature sheet is kinda dumb. But... maybe I'm just not the target demo. :shrug:
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Offline Royal Tiger

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Re: 5 out of 6 IBR top finishers rode an FJR
« Reply #35 on: December 24, 2013, 09:56:01 AM »
And Mercedes is making an 8 speed automatic because of "peer pressure"?  A correctly spaced transmission with 6 gears versus 5 allows more precise tuning.  Why not just stick a 4 speed on it?  Or 3?  There is a reason technology takes us to new levels.  Nobody needs magnesium and carbon fiber components, but it's where it's going.  You can put ABS on drum brakes as well as on discs.  No brake dust, longer life, and unless you are racing it, heat buildup and fade are minimal.  No one seems to want to go back that route either.  Discs are lighter and easier to maintain.  And as Shane pointed out they added the same electronics as the other bikes now.  So why not concede there is at least a slim market appeal for Yamaha to stop being the only 5 speed out there?  There are plenty of "not needed" examples out there.  Even with a 6th gear I wouldn't buy one, so I'm sure Yamaha could care less what I, and numerous others apparently, think.
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Offline Royal Tiger

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Re: 5 out of 6 IBR top finishers rode an FJR
« Reply #36 on: December 24, 2013, 10:00:18 AM »
I also think Kawasaki's KiPASS is dumb.
I think BMW's mechanical headlight system is dumb.
I think putting a 6 speed gear box in a 100-footpound 5000 rpm cruiser is dumb.
I think the idea of pairing ABS ONLY with the DCT is a dumb move by Honda.
I think continuing to NOT put belt drive in long distance bikes is dumb.


I missed your ninja edit.

I agree with those.  I hated the keyless ignition on the Multistrada.  One more thing to go wrong in the middle of nowhere.  I took note of the FJR I rode of only having 5 so I don't think it's just "piling on" with what I read in a magazine.  It was a nice bike, and the blue was OUTSTANDING.  One of my favorite shades ever on a bike.  I just wish I could get 125-140hp, hard bags, shaft drive, ABS, etc... in a NEW bike that weighs under 550lbs wet.
~Dan

2013 Yamaha XT250 * 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250 * 2007 BMW G650X XChallenge * 2005 BMW R1200ST * 2003 Yamaha PW80

Online Max Wedge

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Re: 5 out of 6 IBR top finishers rode an FJR
« Reply #37 on: December 24, 2013, 10:01:53 AM »
I think BMW's mechanical headlight system is dumb.

Heresy!! Burn him!!!!!

Just to be clear, are you talking about the adaptive headlamp system? I thought it was a great idea. This discussion may end up in a new thread to not take this one OT.
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Re: 5 out of 6 IBR top finishers rode an FJR
« Reply #38 on: December 24, 2013, 10:02:43 AM »
Yamaha's official position on the 5th gear issue...

Quote
"BECAUSE FUCK YOU. THAT'S WHY."


 ;D
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Re: 5 out of 6 IBR top finishers rode an FJR
« Reply #39 on: December 24, 2013, 10:14:51 AM »
And Mercedes is making an 8 speed automatic because of "peer pressure"?  A correctly spaced transmission with 6 gears versus 5 allows more precise tuning.  Why not just stick a 4 speed on it?  Or 3?  There is a reason technology takes us to new levels.  Nobody needs magnesium and carbon fiber components, but it's where it's going.  You can put ABS on drum brakes as well as on discs.  No brake dust, longer life, and unless you are racing it, heat buildup and fade are minimal.  No one seems to want to go back that route either.  Discs are lighter and easier to maintain.  And as Shane pointed out they added the same electronics as the other bikes now.  So why not concede there is at least a slim market appeal for Yamaha to stop being the only 5 speed out there?  There are plenty of "not needed" examples out there.  Even with a 6th gear I wouldn't buy one, so I'm sure Yamaha could care less what I, and numerous others apparently, think.

8 speed gear box...? I if it's automatic, fine. Manual? Hell no. I mean, you're talking Benz, there. In that case, you're likely talking about trying to balance MPG from a 500hp overkill engine and the "feel of power" that spending stupid money on a car demands. 

:-) I hear you.

I'm not discounting the idea that newly designed and updated things are beneficial. If it increases strength, rigidity, decreases weight, increases functionality that makes a better experience for the driver/rider, makes it safer, etc... by all means.

But for me, I'm sticking with the real-world package in the FJR. Shifting for the sake of shifting sucks. Shifting to find the right rpm range for the speed and road...? Absolutely. I defy anyone to actually ride the FJR for an appreciable number of miles, and *objectively* show me where it falls on its face because it doesn't have the right grunt at any speed/gear combo, and the thing is a long way from running out of top-end. That's all I'm saying. At this point, it would gain nothing but peer pressure equivalence. And that's just not an idea I can support.

If you just like a 6 speed, you like the tradition of it, or you feel like it's a competing point, then fine. That's an opinion that every person is free to hold for himself. I'd never discount anyone's opinion when they're building a comparison sheet. For me... my opinion... I would rather shift fewer gears more suited to the engine/gearing than to shift more gears because of keeping up with the competitors' spec sheets.

But objectively... nah, the FJR is fine as is. They got it right.

If the engine didn't put out the torque that it does, and/or needed another 4000 RPM to achieve the desired overall performance, then by all means. Having spent 30,000 miles on an FJR, I never once - not cruising across the turnpike for hours on end at felony speeds, or carving up twisties in 15mph hairpins going into 100mph sweepers - ever felt like I needed another top gear or any closer ratios. Heck, considering you could easily go from 1st to 3rd to 5th and never lose any real-world driveability, the 5 speed is perfect, if not more than is *objectively needed*.

I would put money on the notion that Yamaha has already done a cost/benefit analysis and has decided that *if* there is a benefit to adding a 6th gear, it isn't enough of one to absorb the cost of the re-engineering. And given the space and design, a complete and full reworking of the gearbox / engine casing would be necessary.

Part of "better" is cost. Adding another $1500* to the bike takes away its 'better' status.


* - complete guesswork, bullshit number pulled from the ether.

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Re: 5 out of 6 IBR top finishers rode an FJR
« Reply #40 on: December 24, 2013, 10:17:05 AM »
I think BMW's mechanical headlight system is dumb.

Heresy!! Burn him!!!!!

Just to be clear, are you talking about the adaptive headlamp system? I thought it was a great idea. This discussion may end up in a new thread to not take this one OT.

In theory, awesome idea. The idea is to wash light on the road during turns and leans. Excellent idea, in theory.

for 1/10th the cost they could have simply designed a more-widely-dispersed reflector and saved a metric shit ton of cost, weight, complexity and parts-list count.

I return to my previous statements... "part of 'better' is cost", whether that cost be up front purchase price, long term reliability and replacement, etc. The BMW system is, as yet, unproven due to its niche nature and short time in the market place.

$.02
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Online Justin

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Re: 5 out of 6 IBR top finishers rode an FJR
« Reply #41 on: December 24, 2013, 10:22:54 AM »

But for me, I'm sticking with the real-world package in the FJR. Shifting for the sake of shifting sucks. Shifting to find the right rpm range for the speed and road...? Absolutely. I defy anyone to actually ride the FJR for an appreciable number of miles, and *objectively* show me where it falls on its face because it doesn't have the right grunt at any speed/gear combo, and the thing is a long way from running out of top-end. That's all I'm saying. At this point, it would gain nothing but peer pressure equivalence. And that's just not an idea I can support.


Before I had an FJR, I complained about it lacking a sixth gear. Owning one, I realized the 5 speed is geared perfectly for the engine. If I could have another gear, it would be above where 5th already is, so I didn't have to run 8000 RPM's at Nevada speeds :).
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Re: 5 out of 6 IBR top finishers rode an FJR
« Reply #42 on: December 24, 2013, 11:11:59 AM »
I believe the US version of the FJR was tuned to keep the top speed down.
My understanding is the EU version will run higher top speeds.
Gear selection on an FJR is more about acceleration and control than speed.
I always kinda saw it as kind of a built-in safety feature limitation.


I'd be willing to bet I could stick an FJR in 2nd gear and ride it cross-country without changing gear.  It has more than enough power and gear selection for riding at reasonable & prudent speeds, anything less than twice the posted limit.  It don't need no stinken' 6th gear; it would be superfluous, and probably fairly powerless as well.


[Now my Wee - on the other hand - it needs a 7th gear and 350 more CCs.  Even though, as wifey says, I don't need a bike that will let me go faster, although I'm not quite certain she's correct on that point.]

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Re: 5 out of 6 IBR top finishers rode an FJR
« Reply #43 on: December 24, 2013, 11:19:34 AM »

[Now my Wee - on the other hand - it needs a 7th gear and 350 more CCs.  Even though, as wifey says, I don't need a bike that will let me go faster, although I'm not quite certain she's correct on that point.]

I used to balk at people who think they knew more than the engineers when it came to regearing the 'Strom. Now, after spending many miles and hours... I'm convinced all of Japan was on crack the day they decided on the gearing for this thing.

Suzuki most definitely did NOT get it right on the Strom.  :facepalm:
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Offline Black Hills

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Re: 5 out of 6 IBR top finishers rode an FJR
« Reply #44 on: December 24, 2013, 11:26:37 AM »

[Now my Wee - on the other hand - it needs a 7th gear and 350 more CCs.  Even though, as wifey says, I don't need a bike that will let me go faster, although I'm not quite certain she's correct on that point.]

I used to balk at people who think they knew more than the engineers when it came to regearing the 'Strom. Now, after spending many miles and hours... I'm convinced all of Japan was on crack the day they decided on the gearing for this thing.

Suzuki most definitely did NOT get it right on the Strom.  :facepalm:

there is no perfect gearing for any bike, it's all about what you want to do. Typically Japanese sportbikes I go the equivalent of 1 tooth down in the front. If I was touring on it I would leave it stock. the 990 I went down as well, do to having to clutch it too much in the tight stuff. But it's running 5K at 80mph on the highway now.  I'm not sure why the old CB900(?) with the H/L trans. never went over well? I think it would be perfect, specially for adventure bikes?