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Author Topic: Honda still trying to find their market.  (Read 185 times)

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Online Slartibartfast

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Honda still trying to find their market.
« on: Yesterday at 10:58:10 AM »
After perusing the Honda Canada website and speaking with my friendly neighbourhood dealer, I have arrived at the conclusion that Honda is still adrift and seeking a direction.
They've dropped the VFR1200F from the lineup (!) and replaced it with... nothing. I can't imagine how many R&D dollars they tossed away there. The new (old) VFR800 is there but they have no big SPORT-tourer unless you count the CTX1300, but that's more of a sport-TOURER to my thinking.
They have the Decepticon DN-01 Mark II, namely the bizarre-looking NM4, and the F6C Valkyrie (no hard bag option, I suppose to avoid cannibalizing F6B sales) but have decided not to bring the VFR1200C Crosstourer adventure bike into Canada for whatever reason. I guess their market studies dictate their decisions but This is a disappointing move, I think I could see myself liking a big Honda fire road burner.
It seems to me that Honda MC is throwing darts at the market, looking for a niche that hasn't been filled.
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Online tpoppa

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Re: Honda still trying to find their market.
« Reply #1 on: Yesterday at 11:53:10 AM »
Is the ST1300 available in CA?

Online Slartibartfast

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Re: Honda still trying to find their market.
« Reply #2 on: Yesterday at 12:28:12 PM »

Is the ST1300 available in CA?

No, that's gone as well.
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Online Rincewind

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Re: Honda still trying to find their market.
« Reply #3 on: Yesterday at 12:49:44 PM »
Honda US only lists the ST1300 up to model year 2012, and the VFR1200 only up to 2013. 

I think that if Honda can find success in all their new small-cc streetbikes, then maybe they can bolster their higher end bikes again. 

Online Max Wedge

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Re: Honda still trying to find their market.
« Reply #4 on: Yesterday at 01:55:44 PM »

I think that if Honda can find success in all their new small-cc streetbikes, then maybe they can bolster their higher end bikes again.

Ooo. Good plan. That would work. Do they have a suggestion box?
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Online tpoppa

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Re: Honda still trying to find their market.
« Reply #5 on: Yesterday at 02:10:03 PM »
I really don't think their 670cc twin is going to have much success in the US.  By all accounts it's a good motor, but the CTX700 and NC700 aren't exactly flying out of the showroom.     

Online Slartibartfast

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Honda still trying to find their market.
« Reply #6 on: Yesterday at 10:34:43 PM »
I really don't think their 670cc twin is going to have much success in the US.  By all accounts it's a good motor, but the CTX700 and NC700 aren't exactly flying out of the showroom.   

We were seriously considering the NC700 for my wife last year, partly because we were told that it came with panniers. Went in to talk turkey only to be told the panniers were extra. A lot extra. That and the mediocre suspension pushed her away from it.
The CTX1300 seems to have at least received some better bits, but it isn't exactly a powerhouse. If the numbers for the Valkyrie (140+ lbs torque) can be believed it should be an interesting ride.
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Online Papa Lazarou

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Re: Honda still trying to find their market.
« Reply #7 on: Today at 02:39:14 AM »
The VFR800 looks nice.
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Online chornbe

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Re: Honda still trying to find their market.
« Reply #8 on: Today at 05:49:01 AM »
I'm really surprised anyone things the CTX isn't powerful enough. Forgetting its looks and design altogether, the ST1300 was considered to have one of the best power plants available (there's a reason the ST line was left alone so long), and the CTX is just a repackaging of that same mill. :shrug:
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Online Veefer800canuck

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Re: Honda still trying to find their market.
« Reply #9 on: Today at 09:38:06 AM »
I wrote the Honda HQ in California quite awhile ago, and suggested a new power cruiser, a reinvention of the old V65 Magna, using the VFR1200 powertrain.

They sent me a nice thank you letter, and that was it.
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Online Slartibartfast

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Honda still trying to find their market.
« Reply #10 on: Today at 10:23:40 AM »
I'm really surprised anyone things the CTX isn't powerful enough. Forgetting its looks and design altogether, the ST1300 was considered to have one of the best power plants available (there's a reason the ST line was left alone so long), and the CTX is just a repackaging of that same mill. :shrug:

Yeah, but I'm a bit spoiled by the Blackbird. I'm not quite ready to give that power up. I've never owned a bike as long as this one and it still has the ability to make me grin like an idiot.
I know the reviews on the CTX1300 are quite favourable, I'm just not willing to lose 60 or so horses.

Edit: make that 80 horses. I know your stance on the "need" for big power, Chornbe, but my bikes aren't something that has much to do with necessity. I don't "need" it, I just "want" it. There's nothing that can make me smile more than the Blackbird when it hits 7K rpm at WOT. For a bike that's approaching old age it works damned good.
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Online Slartibartfast

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Re: Honda still trying to find their market.
« Reply #11 on: Today at 10:26:19 AM »

I wrote the Honda HQ in California quite awhile ago, and suggested a new power cruiser, a reinvention of the old V65 Magna, using the VFR1200 powertrain.

They sent me a nice thank you letter, and that was it.

They decided to build one around the Wing powertrain instead. Personally, I would find the new Valkyrie rather tempting if I was looking for a power cruiser.
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Online chornbe

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Re: Honda still trying to find their market.
« Reply #12 on: Today at 11:39:07 AM »
ST1300 specs...

Power   117 hp (87 kW) @ 8,000 rpm
Torque   117 N·m (86 lb·ft) @ 6,500 rpm

How is that not enough? How is that not damned good? 86 lbs of torque is absolutely NOTHING to sneeze at.

And this isn't me being all "lower powered bikes are more fun". This is a serious question; >100 hp on something other than a track bike, with that kind of OMFG torque isn't enough...?

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Online Slartibartfast

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Re: Honda still trying to find their market.
« Reply #13 on: Today at 12:40:40 PM »

ST1300 specs...

Power   117 hp (87 kW) @ 8,000 rpm
Torque   117 N·m (86 lb·ft) @ 6,500 rpm

How is that not enough? How is that not damned good? 86 lbs of torque is absolutely NOTHING to sneeze at.

And this isn't me being all "lower powered bikes are more fun". This is a serious question; >100 hp on something other than a track bike, with that kind of OMFG torque isn't enough...?

Because Honda made a few changes to the engine: lower compression, different cams and a redline of 7500 rpm.
One of the mags had it dynoed: 75 horsepower, 76 lbs of torque. That is 60 less ponies than an XX delivers to the ground. A big portion of that torque is available at 2500 rpm, so it probably pulls well enough, but it definitely won't have the freight-train tug I'm used to.
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Online giaka

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Re: Honda still trying to find their market.
« Reply #14 on: Today at 01:20:00 PM »
ST1300 specs...

Power   117 hp (87 kW) @ 8,000 rpm
Torque   117 N·m (86 lb·ft) @ 6,500 rpm

How is that not enough? How is that not damned good? 86 lbs of torque is absolutely NOTHING to sneeze at.

I would buy an ST1300 again. I loved that bike. Im not feeling the CTX at all though. Would rather have a Versys 1000.
« Last Edit: Today at 01:35:32 PM by giaka »
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