What bike would you recommend that fits most/many of these criteria?  It doesn't have to be a particular class of bike or particular size. 

1. True 50+mpg. 

2. Low to very-low insurance.  Cruiser-class could be considered.

3. Low service costs with simple self-servicing and/or hydraulic valve or screw-adjustment valves.  This is one of the most important criteria. 

4. Low repair/parts costs. 

5. High reliability. 

6. Low depreciation - a used model would help most there.

7. Budget price of $5k to $8k.  Used would be fine/preferred.

8. Doesn't scrape hard parts through every turn and can handle mildy aggressive riding.  Should be able to maintain highway speeds up to at least 85mph.  Ability to do the ton preferred.

9. Does not have a super short fuel range - can handle 4-5 day touring with 400-500 mile days, but doesn't have to be a super-recliner either

10. Can handle minimal 2-up riding, but not necessarily touring 2-up.

11. Reasonable weight, say less than 550lbs

12. ABS is nice to have but not a deal breaker.  Disc brakes preferred.

WeeStrom

The benchmark for my comparison is my Tiger 800.  I don't think the 650 Strom would be much, if any, less in terms of insurance.  The service costs would be slightly less but Stroms can require valve shim swaps every 14,000 miles, which could get costly as I'm not skilled enough to do them (yet).  I have read that it can be a frustrating process.  For comparison, my recent quotes for my Tiger 800 12k service with valve check were $800-$900.

Not a bad suggestion, though, and better than some of the options I've thought about.

What bike would you recommend that fits most/many of these criteria?  It doesn't have to be a particular class of bike or particular size. 

1. True 50+mpg. 

2. Low to very-low insurance.  Cruiser-class could be considered.

3. Low service costs with simple self-servicing and/or hydraulic valve or screw-adjustment valves.  This is one of the most important criteria. 

4. Low repair/parts costs. 

5. High reliability. 

6. Low depreciation - a used model would help most there.

7. Budget price of $5k to $8k.  Used would be fine/preferred.
...

Sportster, then replace the rear shocks (if it's an L model) with the Roadster shocks and get almost 2" of additional lift for cornering.

$.02

Burgman 650.  It ticks all the points.

If you get an Exec version, the mirrors have electronic folding too.

nc700x

The Burgie's a good choice, and considerably more fun than you might think. The 650 can be a little lumbering in the low speed stuff until you get comfy just dragging the rear brake (by hand, not foot). It's incredibly comfortable, certainly more than powerful enough, and leans with more gusto than you'd think. I bought Whippy's old one (via JamminJere) and took that to places, on roads, and into corners at speeds that I'm sure the normal audience for that bike would consider all sorts of wrong and stupid.

Considering you're factoring in maintenance costs and depreciation, it's also a really good choice. Tires are cheap, oil changes are cheap, valve checks are easy. Comes standard with ABS and can be had for a (relative) song and at this point, the used market for them has stabilized; you won't lose much on resale in a reasonable time frame.

Mine is being held hostage by the *&@0*&@$)78 who refuses to give it back to me, and the court won't do a damned &*@#$&)*#@ING thing about it. I could REALLY use that thing right now... :\

The Guzzi V7 is a good choice. Very enjoyable bike.

I especially like the Shadow RS, if you're looking at the 750s. It's their analog to the Sportster, and they did a fantastic job with it.

IMO, the minute you factor in depreciation as a concern, every other choice falls by the wayside of the Sportster, given the rest of your list. The cost of ownership on them is stupid low, and I find them very, very enjoyable to ride.

Depreciation is a concern but it's not the #1 concern either as it is not "out of pocket" expense, per se.

The RS lists at $8240 today, and 2011 models are suggested retail $5345.  That is $965 lost per year - about what my Triumph has been losing, too.

Iron 883 lists $8399 today, and 2011 models are suggested retail $6815.  That is $525 lost per year.

So, Rince, can I hijack your thread for a couple of posts? Are you thinking about giving up on the Tiger 800? I gave one just like yours a serious look last weekend and am still thinking that direction. What's your view now that you've been on it awhile?

So, Rince, can I hijack your thread for a couple of posts? Are you thinking about giving up on the Tiger 800? I gave one just like yours a serious look last weekend and am still thinking that direction. What's your view now that you've been on it awhile?

I love it.  You should take a good look at one.  Sure is more fun than those Feejers. 

1. The fuel economy is good while touring, and only ok during normal riding.  Stats - http://www.fuelly.com/driver/alexm11/tiger-t800

2. The power is a good amount and typical for a 750-800 mid-sized bike.  It has good mid-range thrust.  It doesn't have the "wow factor" in high revs like the Street Triple (or FJR, for that matter) but it's still entertaining.

3. I don't like the heat that comes off the engine and frame in very hot/humid conditions when riding in riding jeans.

4. I don't like that I have had the engine light twice now for a gear position sensor malfunction, but Triumph (as normal) is upholding their warranty and replacing it with a new revised one.  I found reference to this problem in quite a few places online, but it's not a huge issue either.  Warranty is out come June.

5. Handling is responsive and it's easy to have a good time in the corners, and a challenge to get a peg to ever touch macadam.

6. ABS has never been a problem and works as intended.  It is switchable to off, but my version of offroad is just gravel roads and it's not really necessary to turn it off.  Brakes are good - not as strong as the Street Triple, but the pads are lasting twice as long as the Street Triple R ones did, too.

7. I had some mild oil useage during break in but haven't noticed it as a problem recently.  It's not like my Tiger 1050 was - that one drank oil regularly.

8. I like that it comes with nice passenger handles and it's own rear rack.  I hate how so many bikes have just those passenger straps on the seat - what a joke.  The 2-part seat is nice and I like that they made it easily height adjustable from the factory.

9. Maintenance costs are what have me fuming a bit now.  I only have 11,xxx miles on it now.  The 6,000 mile service is not bad as done by the dealer with my own oil change - maybe $170 (?).  The 12,000 mile service is being quoted as around $850 or more with taxes, full service with a full day in the shop.  To me that is a lot of money.  I can do some of the service myself, but I'm not able/familiar to really tear into it.

10. Insurance is not terrible but not great either.  It's around $260/year with extra coverage.

Thanks for the Busa suggestion, Carl.  I honestly would never have thought of that one.  I expect the insurance would be more for me, but I don't really know w/o checking. 

I appreciate the suggestions.  I have some financial issues coming to a head that are making me closely examine my monthly budgets.  I figure with a cheaper bike I could save maybe $160-$180/month in costs. 

Squeezer, (more hijack here):

I've got about 1000 miles on my Tiger 800.

Fuel mileage is NOT as good as the Multistrada (1000DS version).

It is smoother and more refined than the Ducati hands down.  The suspension absorbs rough roads much better.

The Multistrada is wickedly faster(quicker), especially if you keep the rpms up on the Ducati. 
The Multistrada is far more flickable, which is a little weird since they're similar weight wise--it may be because the Multistrada is so narrow.

Overall, I'm extremely pleased with the Tiger.  I'm now having second thoughts on whether I want to hunt down an engine for the Multistrada or not...

Honda PC800 aka: Pacific Coast. The bike everyone wanted, but no one bought.

Quote from: Max Wedge on March 19, 2014, 02:15:21 PM

Honda PC800 aka: Pacific Coast. The bike everyone wanted, but no one bought.

I still want one.

You and everyone else.

Honda PC800 aka: Pacific Coast. The bike everyone wanted, but no one bought.

the seemed really cool, until you rode one. they were incredibly boring.....

It's good that you used six capital O's there to differentiate how much easier the Strom is for valve checks.  Otherwise I was thinking, maybe just sell the Tiger and keep the Glady for myself.  Good food for thought, thanks.  My wife is probably going to stick with living horses instead of the mechanical types.

It still seems like the NC700X would be even easier for self-servicing the valves as they are screw-locknut and accessible by swinging the radiator aside.  I tested one already so I know what the low power band was like as compared to the Suzukis.

The only downside is the frequency (not a big deal if you're aware of it) and the fact that occasionally the screw-type adjusters may need replacement. Otherwise, it's an excellent point. If you're happy with the way that engine delivers power (very similar to the Sportster with slightly less off-idle thrust) with low- and mid-range and being anemic up top, then heck yes. Riding a bike with that kind of power delivery taught me a lot about riding a momentum bike fast (keep speed up in turns rather than relying on out of turn thrust) and making proper use of the gears. 

Quote from: chornbe on March 19, 2014, 02:09:44 PM

Alex, in that case, I'm going with Cable's Weestrom suggestion. I guess I was considering this as a second bike, or maybe a bike for your wife. A lot of functional overlap with your Tiger, but as a replacement, It's a really nice option. You could even go for a Strom 1K, but the big difference there will be MPG. I was getting a consistent 38 on mine, but saw 41 once or twice. I'm a bit of a heavy wrist, though.

You're a tall guy; the Strom will accommodate you nicely. The weight is wonderful. You won't find a better bike with passenger room built in. The power delivery is very nice - lots of thrust in the midrange, but you already know that from the Gladius. The handling can be crisp and razor edged with a little tuning; good tires and keep the steering head bearings fresh, and you're golden. PR3s are available for it. That's a huge plus, IMO. Mine had Conti Trail Attacks on it, and I could get it over to scrape-angle at high speeds; there are good tires on the market to fit this. The bike is disgustingly solid and simple, and the FI works nicely. Valve checks are SOOOOOO much easier in the Strom than in the SV/Gladius due to the extra room around the back cylinder head. And honestly... if you get one >30,000 miles on it, it's unlikely you'll ever need an adjustment. Oil changes take all of about 10 minutes, and chain maintenance/adjustment is a snap on that bike the way the adjusters are.

It's good that you used six capital O's there to differentiate how much easier the Strom is for valve checks.  Otherwise I was thinking, maybe just sell the Tiger and keep the Glady for myself.  Good food for thought, thanks. My wife is probably going to stick with living horses instead of the mechanical types.

It still seems like the NC700X would be even easier for self-servicing the valves as they are screw-locknut and accessible by swinging the radiator aside.  I tested one already so I know what the low power band was like as compared to the Suzukis.

Dude,

You're doomed that way.  My wife just likes horses so much more than...

well, just about anything.  Heck, we just picked up another one, last fall--she was SUCH a GOOD DEAL and she's PURRRRFECT!!!
That said, they ARE pretty fun, but certainly not motorcycle fun.  If you're looking for Hubbie/Wife hobbies, you probably should learn to like riding (horses).  It's a wicked addiction for X,X types.

Quote from: Rincewind on March 19, 2014, 02:18:57 PM

Quote from: chornbe on March 19, 2014, 02:09:44 PM

Alex, in that case, I'm going with Cable's Weestrom suggestion. I guess I was considering this as a second bike, or maybe a bike for your wife. A lot of functional overlap with your Tiger, but as a replacement, It's a really nice option. You could even go for a Strom 1K, but the big difference there will be MPG. I was getting a consistent 38 on mine, but saw 41 once or twice. I'm a bit of a heavy wrist, though.

You're a tall guy; the Strom will accommodate you nicely. The weight is wonderful. You won't find a better bike with passenger room built in. The power delivery is very nice - lots of thrust in the midrange, but you already know that from the Gladius. The handling can be crisp and razor edged with a little tuning; good tires and keep the steering head bearings fresh, and you're golden. PR3s are available for it. That's a huge plus, IMO. Mine had Conti Trail Attacks on it, and I could get it over to scrape-angle at high speeds; there are good tires on the market to fit this. The bike is disgustingly solid and simple, and the FI works nicely. Valve checks are SOOOOOO much easier in the Strom than in the SV/Gladius due to the extra room around the back cylinder head. And honestly... if you get one >30,000 miles on it, it's unlikely you'll ever need an adjustment. Oil changes take all of about 10 minutes, and chain maintenance/adjustment is a snap on that bike the way the adjusters are.

It's good that you used six capital O's there to differentiate how much easier the Strom is for valve checks.  Otherwise I was thinking, maybe just sell the Tiger and keep the Glady for myself.  Good food for thought, thanks. My wife is probably going to stick with living horses instead of the mechanical types.

It still seems like the NC700X would be even easier for self-servicing the valves as they are screw-locknut and accessible by swinging the radiator aside.  I tested one already so I know what the low power band was like as compared to the Suzukis.

Dude,

You're doomed that way.  My wife just likes horses so much more than...

well, just about anything.  Heck, we just picked up another one, last fall--she was SUCH a GOOD DEAL and she's PURRRRFECT!!!
That said, they ARE pretty fun, but certainly not motorcycle fun.  If you're looking for Hubbie/Wife hobbies, you probably should learn to like riding (horses).  It's a wicked addiction for X,X types.

Doomed - yes, I know about that.   We don't have a farm property so we pay for board.  It is not feasible given budget restrictions to talk about affording a second one at this time.  (My teenage daughter is in juvenile placement for 6-8 months and my paycheck is being garnished for child support toward a very, very expensive bill.)

I only ride the horse a few times a year to make her happy.  She likes to yell at me about all the things I'm doing wrong.  I'd rather have a bike that I can use for practical purposes 75% of the time or more, then a second horse.

Quote from: Mr. Whippy on March 19, 2014, 02:25:49 PM

Quote from: Rincewind on March 19, 2014, 02:18:57 PM

Quote from: chornbe on March 19, 2014, 02:09:44 PM

Alex, in that case, I'm going with Cable's Weestrom suggestion. I guess I was considering this as a second bike, or maybe a bike for your wife. A lot of functional overlap with your Tiger, but as a replacement, It's a really nice option. You could even go for a Strom 1K, but the big difference there will be MPG. I was getting a consistent 38 on mine, but saw 41 once or twice. I'm a bit of a heavy wrist, though.

You're a tall guy; the Strom will accommodate you nicely. The weight is wonderful. You won't find a better bike with passenger room built in. The power delivery is very nice - lots of thrust in the midrange, but you already know that from the Gladius. The handling can be crisp and razor edged with a little tuning; good tires and keep the steering head bearings fresh, and you're golden. PR3s are available for it. That's a huge plus, IMO. Mine had Conti Trail Attacks on it, and I could get it over to scrape-angle at high speeds; there are good tires on the market to fit this. The bike is disgustingly solid and simple, and the FI works nicely. Valve checks are SOOOOOO much easier in the Strom than in the SV/Gladius due to the extra room around the back cylinder head. And honestly... if you get one >30,000 miles on it, it's unlikely you'll ever need an adjustment. Oil changes take all of about 10 minutes, and chain maintenance/adjustment is a snap on that bike the way the adjusters are.

It's good that you used six capital O's there to differentiate how much easier the Strom is for valve checks.  Otherwise I was thinking, maybe just sell the Tiger and keep the Glady for myself.  Good food for thought, thanks. My wife is probably going to stick with living horses instead of the mechanical types.

It still seems like the NC700X would be even easier for self-servicing the valves as they are screw-locknut and accessible by swinging the radiator aside.  I tested one already so I know what the low power band was like as compared to the Suzukis.

Dude,

You're doomed that way.  My wife just likes horses so much more than...

well, just about anything.  Heck, we just picked up another one, last fall--she was SUCH a GOOD DEAL and she's PURRRRFECT!!!
That said, they ARE pretty fun, but certainly not motorcycle fun.  If you're looking for Hubbie/Wife hobbies, you probably should learn to like riding (horses).  It's a wicked addiction for X,X types.

Doomed - yes, I know about that.   We don't have a farm property so we pay for board.  It is not feasible given budget restrictions to talk about affording a second one at this time.  (My teenage daughter is in juvenile placement for 6-8 months and my paycheck is being garnished for child support toward a very, very expensive bill.)

I only ride the horse a few times a year to make her happy.  She likes to yell at me about all the things I'm doing wrong.  I'd rather have a bike that I can use for practical purposes 75% of the time or more, then a second horse.

Ouch.  Yea that's tough.  We have a farm, and even so an additional horse is a big expense (feed, hay, bedding, shoes every 4-6 weeks, vet...)  We also had the "Headstrong Teenage Daughter" which isn't a cheap event either.

Ouch.  Yea that's tough.  We have a farm, and even so an additional horse is a big expense (feed, hay, bedding, shoes every 4-6 weeks, vet...)  We also had the "Headstrong Teenage Daughter" which isn't a cheap event either.

tell me about it, my wife raises the damn things. I think we have around 20 in the pasture at any given time. hay now comes like this:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


 

The Burgie's a good choice, and considerably more fun than you might think. The 650 can be a little lumbering in the low speed stuff until you get comfy just dragging the rear brake (by hand, not foot). It's incredibly comfortable, certainly more than powerful enough, and leans with more gusto than you'd think. I bought Whippy's old one (via JamminJere) and took that to places, on roads, and into corners at speeds that I'm sure the normal audience for that bike would consider all sorts of wrong and stupid.

Considering you're factoring in maintenance costs and depreciation, it's also a really good choice. Tires are cheap, oil changes are cheap, valve checks are easy. Comes standard with ABS and can be had for a (relative) song and at this point, the used market for them has stabilized; you won't lose much on resale in a reasonable time frame.

Mine is being held hostage by the *&@0*&@$)78 who refuses to give it back to me, and the court won't do a damned &*@#$&)*#@ING thing about it. I could REALLY use that thing right now... :\

Why not just steal it back with one of the kid's assistance? Don't you own it? Unless there are court orders giving her possession...if you can get it in your possession with no muss, no fuss, what's she going to do about it? Of course, that may set her off on other, unrelated issues, but still...

 -Dan

Oh, back on topic - the Honda NC700 came to mind when reading your list, Rince. Honda reliable, should hold value, hits the check list.

Gawd! We were there about a decade ago.  Freakin' foals, yearlings and two year olds all over the place.  I finally pointed out that all she was doing was cleaning up and grooming and not actually riding.  Mercifully, we're down to 5 of our own and three boarders.

its a good thing she has a day job as a nurse. she does make some decent money on them, sold one sat. for $20k but we are still in the red all things considered. but getting closer to breaking even.. hopefully on of these years it will turn a profit...

Quote from: Mr. Whippy on March 19, 2014, 03:18:24 PM

Gawd! We were there about a decade ago.  Freakin' foals, yearlings and two year olds all over the place.  I finally pointed out that all she was doing was cleaning up and grooming and not actually riding.  Mercifully, we're down to 5 of our own and three boarders.

its a good thing she has a day job as a nurse. she does make some decent money on them, sold one sat. for $20k but we are still in the red all things considered. but getting closer to breaking even.. hopefully on of these years it will turn a profit...

Do you know how to make a small fortune in horses?














Start with a large fortune.

Geez, I thought my Tiger 800 question was a threadjack. Now we're on a horse thread.   

Thanks Rince & Whippy for your comments. If someone wants to buy a well kept 03 FJR, let me know.

Geez, I thought my Tiger 800 question was a threadjack. Now we're on a horse thread.   

Thanks Rince & Whippy for your comments. If someone wants to buy a well kept 03 FJR, let me know.

Alex, I've ridden and worked on Ed's FJR. It's very, very nicely kept. I'll go get it in SoCal and ride it back if you want. 

Quote from: Black Hills on March 19, 2014, 03:21:54 PM

Quote from: Mr. Whippy on March 19, 2014, 03:18:24 PM

Gawd! We were there about a decade ago.  Freakin' foals, yearlings and two year olds all over the place.  I finally pointed out that all she was doing was cleaning up and grooming and not actually riding.  Mercifully, we're down to 5 of our own and three boarders.

its a good thing she has a day job as a nurse. she does make some decent money on them, sold one sat. for $20k but we are still in the red all things considered. but getting closer to breaking even.. hopefully on of these years it will turn a profit...

My girlfriend has a side gig retraining former race horses for trail riding, teaching them to not always want to run, teaching them not to be complete assholes... former race horses that have been retrained can be gotten very cheap and (can, but not always do) make excellent trail horses. Might be worth looking into. A lot of the time, they can apparently be bought off the circuit for transportation money.

This is true.  The retraining is the F'd part.  There's a reason those horses are called "Track Trash".  Bad stable manners, nasty about their food, often have sneaky ways of dumping the rider.  It takes a tough, resilient rider to get them retrained for general use.

But yes, once rehab'ed they can be outstanding animals and yes, they can be had for meat money.

Quote from: chornbe on March 19, 2014, 03:29:50 PM

Quote from: Black Hills on March 19, 2014, 03:21:54 PM

Quote from: Mr. Whippy on March 19, 2014, 03:18:24 PM

Gawd! We were there about a decade ago.  Freakin' foals, yearlings and two year olds all over the place.  I finally pointed out that all she was doing was cleaning up and grooming and not actually riding.  Mercifully, we're down to 5 of our own and three boarders.

its a good thing she has a day job as a nurse. she does make some decent money on them, sold one sat. for $20k but we are still in the red all things considered. but getting closer to breaking even.. hopefully on of these years it will turn a profit...

My girlfriend has a side gig retraining former race horses for trail riding, teaching them to not always want to run, teaching them not to be complete assholes... former race horses that have been retrained can be gotten very cheap and (can, but not always do) make excellent trail horses. Might be worth looking into. A lot of the time, they can apparently be bought off the circuit for transportation money.

actually Shawna raises/trains barrel horses so their papers are almost as important as the training. She has had an occasional race horse but they are a lot of work as you are not starting with a clean slate like you are when you raise your own. I will ask her about them though.
 the horse market is a crazy thing and people do crazy stuff. We've had an NFR contestant take us to supper on her way through town because she like the horse Shawna sold her daughter. and there was the couple along with 2 kids and a hired man that drove up from New Mexico in a pickup/trailer to "look" at a horse she had advertised? they bought her, but that's a pretty big investment in not only $ but time for a 13 year olds 4H barrel horse??
her last buyer rented a indoor arena for the day to try a couple of her horses? who does that?

Those barrel racing horses have to have perfect conformation.  The stresses on their joints--fetlocks to hip/shoulder are crazy.  Anything wrong there and they're in for a short career.