Author Topic: What about the mass hysteria?!?! Flu not as bad as once thought? (Read 9062 times)

mastros2 · « **on:** March 17, 2014, 09:03:27 PM »

NPR reports that roughly 1 in 5 unvaccinated people was infected with the flu virus each winter, the study found, but only a quarter of those people showed any symptoms of the infection. And only 17 percent of those infected were sick enough to see a doctor.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2014/03/17/290878964/even-if-you-dont-have-symptoms-you-may-still-have-the-flu?ft=1&f=103537970&utm_source=npr&utm_campaign=nprnews&utm_medium=twitter

I believe that the flu vaccine is fantastic and needed for those with a weakened immune system (elderly, youth, or those with underlying issues) but if this study holds water, what will the big pharmaceutical companies going to push, pain meds?!?

As a parent with children in public schools, it is amazing what is required now to send a child to school. Don't want to start a political debate but maybe we are a little too paranoid.

kneescrubber · « **Reply #1 on:** March 17, 2014, 09:08:21 PM »

Quote from: mastros2 on March 17, 2014, 09:03:27 PM

...maybe we are a little too paranoid.

Ya think?

Skee · « **Reply #2 on:** March 17, 2014, 10:02:08 PM »

We'll see how you feel when the next pandemic strikes. Of course, a flu shot prolly won't be effective when that happens.

There is an increasing body of evidence showing that over-medication can be almost as harmful as lack of adequate treatment. For example, large doses of antibiotics in very young children may permanently destroy beneficial GI bacteria. Overuse can actually make them more susceptible to digestive diseases later in life. And the good bacteria don't appear to regenerate later in life on their own. A new therapy being tried is to re-introduce flora to the GI system, but it's a lot more complicated than just taking a few pills.

I'm not suggesting that anyone should avoid the use of drugs and vaccines; just used wisely, especially the ones you buy on the street. Yeah, it's that not too subtle touch of cynicism that gets me in trouble every time. Right now, there is a huge market in opiate substitutes for people who became addicted to pan meds and other illegal substances. The numbers are staggering. I take a look at the numbers compared to the general population and figure maybe 1 in 10 people around me must be doped out on something.

Not to worry, big pharma will likely be chuggin' along for years to come.

Cookie · « **Reply #3 on:** March 18, 2014, 04:05:26 AM »

Uh oh. I have a slight head ache and a little tickle in my throat. I had better get to the store and load up on medications and make an appointment with my primary care physician to get some prescriptions!!!!

Or have a glass of water and relax.

I work with people who's primary care is the ER and convince themselves they have whatever ailment that new little blue, green, striped blah blah blah pill will treat.

It's not ALL big pharma's fault. We have attorneys and marketing firms fueling the stupid.

I'd better stop this before it gets political.

Coffee?

bomber · « **Reply #4 on:** March 18, 2014, 08:54:32 AM »

I love coffee but it has lowered my tolerance for dumb.

Cookie · « **Reply #5 on:** March 18, 2014, 09:16:28 AM »

Yes.

Sent from my ass via corned beef and cabbage.

PatM · « **Reply #6 on:** March 18, 2014, 09:25:10 AM »

There's a difference between virus vaccination and antibiotics.
With antibiotics, the critters develop a resistance and after a while, the antibiotic doesn't work anymore. Antibiotics don't work with viruses anyway.
With a virus shots you develop the resistance to the strain of virus. That is the limitation of virus shots. There is good research being done on multi-strain virus shots and that could solve that issue.

Should you get a virus shot? Maybe. I've read a while back that you could eradicate some infections by giving shots to as little as 40% on a population. Odds are that with that many people having been treated, a non treated person would not meet someone infected and contagious.

And yes, coffee is good. Beer too.

Cablebandit · « **Reply #7 on:** March 18, 2014, 09:32:06 AM »

I choose not to get sick. It's worked so far.

kneescrubber · « **Reply #8 on:** March 18, 2014, 10:00:59 AM »

Quote from: Cablebandit on March 18, 2014, 09:32:06 AM

I choose not to get sick. It's worked so far.

That's been my approach so far. It seems to be working. Really pisses Susan off though.

Mr. Whippy · « **Reply #9 on:** March 18, 2014, 10:20:10 AM »

Ugh. This is more than a yes/no issue.

1. Drug companies make almost no profit from vaccines. That is why virtually no Big Pharma companies make them. Targeted therapies have many orders of magnitude better ROI.

2. Vaccinations have NO effect on normal flora. They simply prime your immune response so that your body can mount a more effective response should you encounter the organism that you were vaccinated for.

3. Because of markedly improved global travel, the public health world KNOWS that if an extremely virulent strain appears (and it is highly contagious), it wll envelop the world in days rather than months to years (like the 1918 influenza strain).

4. Vaccination isn't just about protecting you, it's about herd immunity, since we know that far less than 100% will mount an effective immune response. We just don't know who will still be at risk.

5. The biggest problem with the effectiveness of the influenza vaccine is the lag time it takes to produce it. Because the FDA requires flu vaccines to be manufactured in the old way (inoculated eggs), they have to guess which strains will likely be prevalent 6-8 months ahead of time. It's like predicting the weather months ahead of time. No too accurate. There are faster methods to produce it, but the FDA has not deemed them "proven safe" yet.

Jenny McCarthy is a crackpot. Emphasis on "Crack".

Black Hills · « **Reply #10 on:** March 18, 2014, 10:35:33 AM »

what the smart guy ^ said

it may not be a big deal to you or I, but to the grandmother we infect it may be deadly.

KLRchickie · « **Reply #11 on:** March 18, 2014, 11:21:26 AM »

Quote from: Black Hills on March 18, 2014, 10:35:33 AM

it may not be a big deal to you or I, but to ~~the grandmother we~~ my husband, who all the people who "don't believe in a flu shot" may infect it may be deadly.

I don't *think* I have ever had the flu, maybe once or twice in the far distant past. I get a flu shot every winter because ZED is one of those people who is debilitated by the flu, and used to get debilitatingly sick from the flu *at least* once per winter, until we started being vaccinated.

CLAY · « **Reply #12 on:** March 18, 2014, 11:21:58 AM »

Quote from: Mr. Whippy on March 18, 2014, 10:20:10 AM

Ugh. This is more than a yes/no issue.

1. Drug companies make almost no profit from vaccines. That is why virtually no Big Pharma companies make them. Targeted therapies have many orders of magnitude better ROI.

2. Vaccinations have NO effect on normal flora. They simply prime your immune response so that your body can mount a more effective response should you encounter the organism that you were vaccinated for.

3. Because of markedly improved global travel, the public health world KNOWS that if an extremely virulent strain appears (and it is highly contagious), it wll envelop the world in days rather than months to years (like the 1918 influenza strain).

4. Vaccination isn't just about protecting you, it's about herd immunity, since we know that far less than 100% will mount an effective immune response. We just don't know who will still be at risk.

5. The biggest problem with the effectiveness of the influenza vaccine is the lag time it takes to produce it. Because the FDA requires flu vaccines to be manufactured in the old way (inoculated eggs), they have to guess which strains will likely be prevalent 6-8 months ahead of time. It's like predicting the weather months ahead of time. No too accurate. There are faster methods to produce it, but the FDA has not deemed them "proven safe" yet.

Jenny McCarthy is a crackpot. Emphasis on "Crack".

A voice of science.

bomber · « **Reply #13 on:** March 18, 2014, 11:33:29 AM »

I get vaccinated for two reasons . . . . .

One -- see whippy's post, above.

Two -- I remember polio.

Sadly, our local football team's quarterback's fiancee has blogged who she will not vaccinate the kids she has with said QB . . . some are following her lead, no doubt because sleeping with a pro football player confers some higher level of intelligence . . ..

kneescrubber · « **Reply #14 on:** March 18, 2014, 11:40:08 AM »

Quote from: bomber on March 18, 2014, 11:33:29 AM

I get vaccinated for two reasons . . . . .

One -- see whippy's post, above.

Two -- I remember polio.

Sadly, our local football team's quarterback's fiancee has blogged who she will not vaccinate the kids she has with said QB . . . some are following her lead, no doubt because sleeping with a pro football player confers some higher level of intelligence . . ..

Mmmm.......sugar cubes.

bomber · « **Reply #15 on:** March 18, 2014, 11:41:41 AM »

Quote from: kneescrubber on March 18, 2014, 11:40:08 AM

Quote from: bomber on March 18, 2014, 11:33:29 AM
I get vaccinated for two reasons . . . . .

One -- see whippy's post, above.

Two -- I remember polio.

Sadly, our local football team's quarterback's fiancee has blogged who she will not vaccinate the kids she has with said QB . . . some are following her lead, no doubt because sleeping with a pro football player confers some higher level of intelligence . . ..

Mmmm.......sugar cubes.

LOL -- OK, knee . . .are we related somehow?

squeezer · « **Reply #16 on:** March 18, 2014, 11:47:01 AM »

Nicely said, Mr. Whippy.

mxvet57 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 18, 2014, 06:13:28 PM »

Went for a ride.

Now I have the chills.

I need to call the doctor.

I think I have the flu.

I'm going to bed.

Cablebandit · « **Reply #18 on:** March 18, 2014, 06:35:36 PM »

<--- Still not sick.

Just picked my nose with my dirty finger to further boost my system.

kneescrubber · « **Reply #19 on:** March 18, 2014, 06:36:43 PM »

Quote from: mxvet57 on March 18, 2014, 06:13:28 PM

Went for a ride.

Now I have the chills.

I need to call the doctor.

I think I have the flu.

I'm going to bed.

Can I have your Speedy? You'll have to bring to me though.

Can I have your

kneescrubber · « **Reply #20 on:** March 18, 2014, 06:37:56 PM »

Quote from: Cablebandit on March 18, 2014, 06:35:36 PM

<--- Still not sick.

Just picked my nose with my dirty finger to further boost my system.

I'm betting you never wash your hands before eating too.

Cablebandit · « **Reply #21 on:** March 18, 2014, 06:39:05 PM »

They get washed during my morning shower. That seems to be enough.

kneescrubber · « **Reply #22 on:** March 18, 2014, 06:41:01 PM »

Quote from: Cablebandit on March 18, 2014, 06:39:05 PM

They get washed during my morning shower. That seems to be enough.

Fucking Japanese.

Skee · « **Reply #23 on:** March 18, 2014, 06:50:55 PM »

Just as sick as ever

kneescrubber · « **Reply #24 on:** March 18, 2014, 06:55:10 PM »

Quote from: Skee on March 18, 2014, 06:50:55 PM

Just as sick as ever

I'm betting you actually washed your hands with anti-bacterial soap when your mom told you to as a kid.

Cookie · « **Reply #25 on:** March 18, 2014, 07:16:27 PM »

I have lived an interesting life. I have had years of less than stellar hygiene <--(Ed, I used spell check. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink) and funky eating habits. Hell, sketchy food sources for that matter. Other than head coldish things from riding with my visor up in pretty cold weather, that I treat with Alka Seltzer Cold for a day just to get my sinuses back in shape, I rarely get sick.

No flu shots. No anti bacterial blah blah blah. Just common sense (only a moron doesn't wash their hands after wiping their ass).

Should be dead by Friday.

kneescrubber · « **Reply #26 on:** March 18, 2014, 08:46:24 PM »

Quote from: Cookie on March 18, 2014, 07:16:27 PM

Should be dead by Friday.

Sad. Only the second day of spring too.

mxvet57 · « **Reply #27 on:** March 18, 2014, 09:06:02 PM »

Quote from: kneescrubber on March 18, 2014, 06:36:43 PM

Quote from: mxvet57 on March 18, 2014, 06:13:28 PM
Went for a ride.

Now I have the chills.

I need to call the doctor.

I think I have the flu.

I'm going to bed.

Can I have your Speedy? You'll have to bring to me though.

Can I have your

I'm still alive pall.

mxvet57 · « **Reply #28 on:** March 18, 2014, 09:07:35 PM »

Quote from: Cablebandit on March 18, 2014, 06:35:36 PM

<--- Still not sick.

Just picked my nose with my dirty finger to further boost my system.

Do you clean your finger after you wipe your ass.

BMW-K · « **Reply #29 on:** March 18, 2014, 09:37:37 PM »

Ahhh yes, Germophobia! I do have to laugh about it. We've become so sterile...that natural resistances are starting to take a backseat. Geez, share a toothbrush? Heavens forbid...but wait, Frenching, Tonguing, Fellatio...all that's good, right?

I do get my flu shot each year - and I'm fully vaccinated through Hep C (*travel to Africa, Hunting). Mostly though it's because I work in Healthcare and visit no less than half a dozen different hospitals a month.

By my math, if it's out there I've probably come in contact with it.

Does that make me healthier...or less? I dunno. I haven't had the flu in the past 4 years and it's allergies that kick my ass not the common cold.

My wife didn't get a flu shot...and spent 6 days hammered with the bug late last year. I didn't get sick.

Cablebandit · « **Reply #30 on:** March 19, 2014, 05:09:11 AM »

Quote from: mxvet57 on March 18, 2014, 09:07:35 PM

Quote from: Cablebandit on March 18, 2014, 06:35:36 PM
<--- Still not sick.

Just picked my nose with my dirty finger to further boost my system.

Do you clean your finger after you wipe your ass.

I already said I take a shower every morning.

Cookie · « **Reply #31 on:** March 19, 2014, 05:14:43 AM »

I woke with a cold this morning.

Frack.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

kneescrubber · « **Reply #32 on:** March 19, 2014, 06:42:20 AM »

Quote from: Cookie on March 19, 2014, 05:14:43 AM

I woke with a cold this morning.

Frack.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

mxvet57 · « **Reply #33 on:** March 19, 2014, 08:08:26 AM »

Feel a lot better than last night but it's still going to be an indoor day.

DNA · « **Reply #34 on:** March 19, 2014, 05:22:49 PM »

Pot siring in 3,2,1...

I am all for personal rights and individual freedom to choose, but as an employer, even though I provide PTO days for sickness (which people refuse to use with colds) should I be able to make all employees get a flu shot?
If they get sick they infect my whole staff and I lose massive productivity. I have a lot to lose.

They don't have to get the shot - they can just work elsewhere...

In other news I know a little about the industry and Whippy is correct (again)- vaccinations are very bad business -high liability and very low profit.

Diabetes, Cardiovascular, AIDS, Hypertension, Depression, obesity - chronic issues that can be well managed with small molecules were the place to be.

Cancer is ok because the risk reward ratio is very different - the drugs only have to sort work a bit and safety is not an issue so they may be very profitable.

Infectious disease and rare orphan diseases - not good business.

These areas are also falling out of fashion. Exotic biological solutions that can not be easily duplicated by the kilo as generics are the future as it stands today.

kneescrubber · « **Reply #35 on:** March 19, 2014, 06:05:38 PM »

Quote from: DNA on March 19, 2014, 05:22:49 PM

Pot siring in 3,2,1...

I am all for personal rights and individual freedom to choose, but as an employer, even though I provide PTO days for sickness....

I'll bite. Other than motorcycle related injuries; I'll bet I haven't missed more than 1 month's worth of time at work in the past 50 years. And as I've stated before here and elsewhere, I haven't had a flu shot since I left the military in 1981, and never had the flu. On the flip side, my SO, Susan, has a a very weak immune system. She only worked a half day today because she ate something that suddenly caused defecation and diarrhea.

Stop grouping everyone into your preconceived ideas.

CLAY · « **Reply #36 on:** March 19, 2014, 06:48:45 PM »

For anecdotal evidence (

) I missed the flu shot last year. I teach. I got the flu two days before Christmas (confirmed via test). It kicked my ass- I wouldn't wish it on anybody.

I haven't missed a day since.

Jim · « **Reply #37 on:** March 19, 2014, 06:49:30 PM »

Maybe I'm having an off day. Perhaps this should be in the rant thread...

Quote from: DNA on March 19, 2014, 05:22:49 PM

If they get sick they infect my whole staff and I lose massive productivity. I have a lot to lose.

I'll be on the sideline with a firm issue: PROVE that their sickness caused your whole staff's infection.

None of us are getting out of this world alive, we're all going to die, we're all going to have "downtime" while we're around.

If you're looking to have no outside issues for your business continuity plan... Have you moved your business off of planet Earth for when the Yellowstone Caldera blows, we'll either be extinct or seriously hampered as a world society - you won't want your business to be affected by that.

I hit post - I feel better - thank you. Move along, nothing to see here...

Skee · « **Reply #38 on:** March 19, 2014, 09:36:45 PM »

Quote from: kneescrubber on March 18, 2014, 06:55:10 PM

Quote from: Skee on March 18, 2014, 06:50:55 PM
Just as sick as ever

I'm betting you actually washed your hands with anti-bacterial soap when your mom told you to as a kid.

Nope. I was professionally acquainted with a person who developed a lot of the early soap formulations, and I did author a brief on why we shouldn't bother to use the stuff for routine hand washing, although I do believe it is effective in controlling certain types of Acne.

Moving on...

Nearly half of Americans subscribe to a medical conspiracy theory

kneescrubber · « **Reply #39 on:** March 19, 2014, 09:41:59 PM »

Quote from: Skee on March 19, 2014, 09:36:45 PM

Nearly half of Americans subscribe to a medical conspiracy theory

Sounds like mass hysteria to me.

mastros2 · « **Reply #40 on:** March 20, 2014, 12:27:49 AM »

Good responses so far.

I have had the flu 6 or so years ago. It kicked my butt for 5 or so days. Was it enough to make me get the flu shot every near? No.

Yes, it is an advancement in science that we have a "flu shot" available and that the elderly, young and others with health issues can be somewhat protected but the reason I posted this was to open people's minds that the flu may not be that bad for people with average immune systems.