Author Topic: BUILT FOR COMFORT. BUILT FOR SPEED. (what is a sport touring bike?) (Read 8552 times)

R Doug · « **on:** January 23, 2014, 06:02:00 PM »

Peter Egan covers the history of sport touring rigs here:

http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/01/23/sport-touring-motorcycles-a-concise-history-by-peter-egan/?utm_source=rss

My three favorite quotes:

Quote

What exactly is a sport-tourer? I see it as a kind of genetic cross between a café racer and a full-blown touring machine, with the glaring disadvantages of both types removed. What you want, essentially, is a café racer that doesn’t hurt your wrists and a touring bike that doesn’t feel like a tank. Suffering is thereby minimalized on the Great Plains and the bike is actually fun to ride when you hit the Rockies or Appalachians. Depending on which way your bike is pointed.

re: the movement to large dual sport bikes.

Quote

Sport-tourers, in general, seemed to be growing porkier, more complex and visually dense, while the growing band of dual-sport bikes offered a return to see-through simplicity, utilitarian character, and upright, roomy comfort. Plus, you could ride on a gravel road—or even a goat path, thereby breaking your leg in exotic places with the natives watching.

I agree, I have always hated this line.

Quote

There’s a terrible phrase we often use in road tests, one that often signals the beginning of the end for my interest in a given motorcycle genre. And that phrase is: “It’s a big, heavy bike, but the weight goes away once you get rolling.”

Personally, I’m a big fan of having the weight go away on the drawing board at the motorcycle factory.

Stripes · « **Reply #1 on:** January 23, 2014, 06:03:11 PM »

What does he know?!

M.Brane · « **Reply #2 on:** January 23, 2014, 06:10:50 PM »

He never tried a VFR?

kneescrubber · « **Reply #3 on:** January 23, 2014, 06:37:04 PM »

st2sam · « **Reply #4 on:** January 23, 2014, 07:05:57 PM »

Wake up Peter, it's here.

http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/product-specifications.aspx?scid=6&id=782

SLK50 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 23, 2014, 07:44:54 PM »

Quote from: st2sam on January 23, 2014, 07:05:57 PM

Wake up Peter, it's here.

http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/product-specifications.aspx?scid=6&id=782

That bike would be great.
As long as you don't ride in the rain.
Or cold.
Or carry a passenger.
Oh wait, nobody here ever does any of that.
Never mind.

Dan K · « **Reply #6 on:** January 24, 2014, 03:41:11 PM »

Quote from: SLK50 on January 23, 2014, 07:44:54 PM

Quote from: st2sam on January 23, 2014, 07:05:57 PM
Wake up Peter, it's here.

http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/product-specifications.aspx?scid=6&id=782

That bike would be great.
As long as you don't ride in the rain.
Or cold.
Or carry a passenger.
Oh wait, nobody here ever does any of that.
Never mind.

I sold my FZ1 and replaced it with the Sprint because I ride in the rain and cold. Fully faired but still fun to ride.

I think the Ninja 1000 is great for wind and weather protection with some stonk in the motor. Really want to test ride one. If I ever let go of the Sprint, I'm very interested in the Ninja. Perfect sport touring bike in my book (although I'd go with the top case).

Ninja, please...

- Dan

R Doug · « **Reply #7 on:** January 24, 2014, 06:00:34 PM »

Peter should be happy, according to this article, ST Rigs are becoming leaner and meaner.

http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/01/24/new-sport-touring-motorcycles-promise-less-weight-more-power/?src=SOC&dom=fb

JonS · « **Reply #8 on:** January 25, 2014, 06:10:07 AM »

Quote from: st2sam on January 23, 2014, 07:05:57 PM

Wake up Peter, it's here.

http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/product-specifications.aspx?scid=6&id=782

That Kawa. looks pretty good. One of the lighter Japanese sport touring bikes, but still a little porky for my taste. I think it must weigh about the same as a VFR, which carries the weight low, so you don't notice it much.
Egan has been a favorite of mine for along time. Thanks for the link!

Zixxerpilot · « **Reply #9 on:** January 25, 2014, 07:09:07 AM »

What I can't figure out is why the Ninja 1000 caught on but nobody even looks at the Bandit 1250FA. They came fully faired, and kitted out with hard luggage. Cheap, too.

I demo'd one and loved it! I demo'd the Ninja and while it was a great bike, it had really awkward angles on the bars and the same buzzy engine as the z1000. Neither are deal breakers (I love my Zed), but there.

One other knock on the Ninja, insurance is way high for the class of bike. They keep looping it in with the big zx10r Ninja.

The Bandit was butter smooth, tons of low end grunt, and probably the most bulletproof engine ever. It was also way more comfortable.

Just my .02.

st2sam · « **Reply #10 on:** January 25, 2014, 09:14:32 AM »

Quote from: Zixxerpilot on January 25, 2014, 07:09:07 AM

What I can't figure out is why the Ninja 1000 caught on but nobody even looks at the Bandit 1250FA. They came fully faired, and kitted out with hard luggage. Cheap, too.
I demo'd one and loved it! I demo'd the Ninja and while it was a great bike, it had really awkward angles on the bars and the same buzzy engine as the z1000. Neither are deal breakers (I love my Zed), but there.
One other knock on the Ninja, insurance is way high for the class of bike. They keep looping it in with the big zx10r Ninja.
The Bandit was butter smooth, tons of low end grunt, and probably the most bulletproof engine ever. It was also way more comfortable.
Just my .02.

That is a good question. I have a few more.

Was it fully or half faired?
Was the tank to small?
Were Suzuki factory bags an option? Bags like the 2014 Ninja, that look good and tuck in tight.

PatM · « **Reply #11 on:** January 25, 2014, 09:37:43 AM »

Quote from: st2sam on January 25, 2014, 09:14:32 AM

Quote from: Zixxerpilot on January 25, 2014, 07:09:07 AM
What I can't figure out is why the Ninja 1000 caught on but nobody even looks at the Bandit 1250FA. They came fully faired, and kitted out with hard luggage. Cheap, too.
I demo'd one and loved it! I demo'd the Ninja and while it was a great bike, it had really awkward angles on the bars and the same buzzy engine as the z1000. Neither are deal breakers (I love my Zed), but there.
One other knock on the Ninja, insurance is way high for the class of bike. They keep looping it in with the big zx10r Ninja.
The Bandit was butter smooth, tons of low end grunt, and probably the most bulletproof engine ever. It was also way more comfortable.
Just my .02.

That is a good question. I have a few more.

Was it fully or half faired?
Was the tank to small?
Were Suzuki factory bags an option? Bags like the 2014 Ninja, that look good and tuck in tight.

+1 The big Suzy is a nice street bike but a half hearted attempt at a real tour bike.

Zixxerpilot · « **Reply #12 on:** January 25, 2014, 03:23:08 PM »

Quote from: st2sam on January 25, 2014, 09:14:32 AM

Quote from: Zixxerpilot on January 25, 2014, 07:09:07 AM
What I can't figure out is why the Ninja 1000 caught on but nobody even looks at the Bandit 1250FA. They came fully faired, and kitted out with hard luggage. Cheap, too.
I demo'd one and loved it! I demo'd the Ninja and while it was a great bike, it had really awkward angles on the bars and the same buzzy engine as the z1000. Neither are deal breakers (I love my Zed), but there.
One other knock on the Ninja, insurance is way high for the class of bike. They keep looping it in with the big zx10r Ninja.
The Bandit was butter smooth, tons of low end grunt, and probably the most bulletproof engine ever. It was also way more comfortable.
Just my .02.

That is a good question. I have a few more.

Was it fully or half faired?
Was the tank to small?
Were Suzuki factory bags an option? Bags like the 2014 Ninja, that look good and tuck in tight.

Fully faired, tank was planty big (5 gallons if I recall), and the bags were Givi, but they were designed for the Bandit, and even included the trunk. They looked good.

Zixxerpilot · « **Reply #13 on:** January 25, 2014, 03:27:02 PM »

GSX1250FA Bandit, as reference

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

chornbe · « **Reply #14 on:** January 25, 2014, 03:29:31 PM »

Quote from: R Doug on January 24, 2014, 06:00:34 PM

Peter should be happy, according to this article, ST Rigs are becoming leaner and meaner.

http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/01/24/new-sport-touring-motorcycles-promise-less-weight-more-power/?src=SOC&dom=fb

That article is asinine... it includes a bike NOT coming to the US (that new VFR won't be coming here any time soon, if at all), and a $36,000 rich man's toy.

Oy.

chornbe · « **Reply #15 on:** January 25, 2014, 03:31:56 PM »

Quote from: Zixxerpilot on January 25, 2014, 03:27:02 PM

GSX1250FA Bandit, as reference

IMO, the Bandit/FA and the Ninja 1000 ABS are THE bikes to watch for the new S-T archetype to replace the growing porkers. Shaft drive would be nice, but chains are so damned good any more, and almost disposable-cheap, it's really just a matter of preference more than the old "I don't want to do chain maintenance on the road any more" consideration (of which I was guilt for a long time).

Having said all that, the FJR is still the greatest road bike ever built.

kneescrubber · « **Reply #16 on:** January 25, 2014, 03:57:21 PM »

Quote from: chornbe on January 25, 2014, 03:31:56 PM

Having said all that, the FJR is still the greatest road bike ever built.

SLK50 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 25, 2014, 04:21:21 PM »

Quote from: chornbe on January 25, 2014, 03:31:56 PM

Quote from: Zixxerpilot on January 25, 2014, 03:27:02 PM
GSX1250FA Bandit, as reference

IMO, the Bandit/FA and the Ninja 1000 ABS are THE bikes to watch for the new S-T archetype to replace the growing porkers.
Having said all that, the FJR is still the greatest road bike ever built.

I mostly agree. However, regardless of how many bikes are in my garage,
if I'm going to be riding more than 100 miles from home, the FJR gets the nod.

Zixxerpilot · « **Reply #18 on:** January 25, 2014, 04:49:20 PM »

Quote from: chornbe on January 25, 2014, 03:31:56 PM

Quote from: Zixxerpilot on January 25, 2014, 03:27:02 PM
GSX1250FA Bandit, as reference

IMO, the Bandit/FA and the Ninja 1000 ABS are THE bikes to watch for the new S-T archetype to replace the growing porkers. Shaft drive would be nice, but chains are so damned good any more, and almost disposable-cheap, it's really just a matter of preference more than the old "I don't want to do chain maintenance on the road any more" consideration (of which I was guilt for a long time).

Having said all that, the FJR is still the greatest road bike ever built.

I'm notorious for neglecting my chain, aside for kicking it for tension....

I still average 20k miles before I change them out, and it's usually more due to sprocket wear than chain. Keep it clean-ish and occasionally hose it down with good lube. They usually hold adjustment fine. I change rear tires about every 6k or so anyhow.

I agree with the FJR, though. There is just nothing else close. But, taking new for new, they're several thousand more expensive. Worth it, but some may not want to pay that much.

PatM · « **Reply #19 on:** January 25, 2014, 06:44:26 PM »

Quote from: Zixxerpilot on January 25, 2014, 03:23:08 PM

Quote from: st2sam on January 25, 2014, 09:14:32 AM
Quote from: Zixxerpilot on January 25, 2014, 07:09:07 AM
What I can't figure out is why the Ninja 1000 caught on but nobody even looks at the Bandit 1250FA. They came fully faired, and kitted out with hard luggage. Cheap, too.
I demo'd one and loved it! I demo'd the Ninja and while it was a great bike, it had really awkward angles on the bars and the same buzzy engine as the z1000. Neither are deal breakers (I love my Zed), but there.
One other knock on the Ninja, insurance is way high for the class of bike. They keep looping it in with the big zx10r Ninja.
The Bandit was butter smooth, tons of low end grunt, and probably the most bulletproof engine ever. It was also way more comfortable.
Just my .02.

That is a good question. I have a few more.

Was it fully or half faired?
Was the tank to small?
Were Suzuki factory bags an option? Bags like the 2014 Ninja, that look good and tuck in tight.

Fully faired, tank was planty big (5 gallons if I recall), and the bags were Givi, but they were designed for the Bandit, and even included the trunk. They looked good.

It's fine if you don't mind looking for gas after 120 miles. That 5 gal will give you about 180 miles before you start walking.

Zixxerpilot · « **Reply #20 on:** January 25, 2014, 06:57:31 PM »

Bandit is 5.3, N1k is 5 even.

Both knock down upper 30's, low 40's per gallon.

M.Brane · « **Reply #21 on:** January 26, 2014, 01:39:53 AM »

Quote from: kneescrubber on January 25, 2014, 03:57:21 PM

Quote from: chornbe on January 25, 2014, 03:31:56 PM
Having said all that, the FJR is still the greatest road bike ever built.

Where's county when you need him?

Seriously unless I'm needing to take a pillion on a regular basis I'd pick my VFR over the FJR without hesitation.

Stripes · « **Reply #22 on:** January 26, 2014, 07:51:23 AM »

I'd take a 1050 Triumph Sprint ST over the FJR! Come to think of it, I'd take pretty much anything over the FJR!

Skee · « **Reply #23 on:** January 26, 2014, 09:37:27 AM »

3 Things I don't like about new Ninja
No factory option for 3 hard cases. You can have top or sides; not both.
Insurance rates - could be deal breaker for me - 2x cost of same coverage on a Connie.
Minimal wind protection - even less than my Wee - I could live with that.

Otherwise it's a perfect S-T IMO.

2RR2NV · « **Reply #24 on:** January 26, 2014, 09:55:05 AM »

Quote from: Stripes on January 26, 2014, 07:51:23 AM

I'd take a 1050 Triumph Sprint ST over the FJR! Come to think of it, I'd take pretty much anything over the FJR!

same. not going back.

Stripes · « **Reply #25 on:** January 26, 2014, 10:05:06 AM »

There's a perfect sport tourer for everyone, no matter what the brand!

JonS · « **Reply #26 on:** January 26, 2014, 04:24:30 PM »

Quote from: Stripes on January 26, 2014, 10:05:06 AM

There's a perfect sport tourer for everyone, no matter what the brand!

The voice of reason!

Royal Tiger · « **Reply #27 on:** January 27, 2014, 08:26:29 AM »

I agree about the Ninja. Top or sides but not both is stupid beyond all reason.

If BMW made a 525lb shaft drive wet head ST it'd be damn near perfect. I love mine to death.

Black Hills · « **Reply #28 on:** January 27, 2014, 08:38:05 AM »

After switching to the 990 Adventure I thought I may never go back to a ST bike. But, the lack of high speed ability once again had me dreaming of something with more motor. since trading the 990 for the 1190 A I think that problem is gone. once again I may never go back to an ST bike, for me the ADV bikes offer more bang for your vacation time dollar than anything else. of course just my slightly delusional opinion.

mxvet57 · « **Reply #29 on:** January 27, 2014, 09:03:07 AM »

Quote from: Black Hills on January 27, 2014, 08:38:05 AM

of course just my slightly delusional opinion.

So how cold is it there?

Black Hills · « **Reply #30 on:** January 27, 2014, 09:57:00 AM »

Quote from: mxvet57 on January 27, 2014, 09:03:07 AM

Quote from: Black Hills on January 27, 2014, 08:38:05 AM
of course just my slightly delusional opinion.

So how cold is it there?

5 today, but it was 55 saturday