When there's a vaccine or herd immunity. Nothing else really counts. As the meme says,

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I have to ask about this concept of herd immunity. Since the flu has been around for generations and I haven't heard of immunity and the common cold has been around and I haven't heard of immunity and measles ect, where did this idea come from? There is no proof you can't get reinfected at this point, so WTF is herd immunity and does anyone think its going to happen in 1 generation of the virus?to me its a false concept until proven. And theres little in human history to back it up.
In answer to the post , its over when they 1) have a viable , working treatment for those infected and 2) when there is a tested, proven  vaccine for itother wise, no its not.

Yeah, that gets it. Vaccines are actually just a way to get herd immunity. It's the same thing. The difference is you inject the antibodies rather than waiting for your body to produce its own in reaction to the virus.

No vaccine for common cold because it mutates so quickly and there are many viruses (virii?) Flu viruses mutate but often in a predictable way, so we can prepare a new vaccine each year (it's actually guesswork and some years they get it wrong).

We really don't know yet how fast this one mutates. On that score, BTW, lots of questions about the research that hit the news yesterday that it has already mutated into something more contagious. That is not confirmed.

Quote from: maddjack on May 07, 2020, 11:56:57 AM

I have to ask about this concept of herd immunity. Since the flu has been around for generations and I haven't heard of immunity and the common cold has been around and I haven't heard of immunity and measles ect, where did this idea come from? There is no proof you can't get reinfected at this point, so WTF is herd immunity and does anyone think its going to happen in 1 generation of the virus?to me its a false concept until proven. And theres little in human history to back it up.
In answer to the post , its over when they 1) have a viable , working treatment for those infected and 2) when there is a tested, proven  vaccine for it other wise, no its not.

I looked up 'herd immunity';
Johns Hopkins (Bloomberg) School of Public Health says; 
there are two ways to achieve herd immunity: A large proportion of the population either gets infected or gets a protective vaccine
we will likely need at least 70% of the population to be immune to have herd protection.
https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/achieving-herd-immunity-with-covid19.html

Fine except what proof is there that once you have been infected that you won't get infected again if its mutating quickly?Wouldn't that negate herd immunity?Heck of an assumption to make in truth .

In answer to the post , its over when they 1) have a viable , working treatment for those infected and 2) when there is a tested, proven  vaccine for itother wise, no its not.

Yes, that's a better answer. Herd immunity is an effect of the above, not a specific goal.

Never, it continues to mutate and we don’t yet know enough about it to say what will irradiate it from existence completely. However, we will learn how to live with it and how to limit the number of people that get it. We will learn how to prevent it in most people.  We will learn how to treat it in the few people that do get it.  We will get back to a point where our behavior can become “normal”, and we will adapt to changes in our behavior that caution dictates.

It’s going to be a long time until the limits placed on restaurants, events, festivals, etc. are removed everywhere. It’s going to be a long time until schools go back to what they were before.  It’s going to be a long time until sporting events go back to full capacity. 

Almost none of this is going to happen until childcare returns at the same level that it was before. I expect many states to return to this being open in a limited fashion next month, but if we see this disease start to really effect our children, childcare will be shut right down immediately. 

When there's a vaccine or herd immunity. Nothing else really counts. As the meme says,

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Not that there was never any room, but maybe not with healthcare workers being laid off and hospitals going under.

They were open and busy in Allegheny county,so its a regional thing. But you just don't want to hear that do you?

So, it's not a one-size-fits-all?

There's always a second round in a pandemic. Staying home just prolongs it.

Remember this?

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We did this to flatten the curve, to prevent health care form being over run, which has more than been accomplished. Other than a few hotspots, it never even came close, because the models were way off.

Notice, the lockdowns EXTEND the pandemic and may actually INCREASE the numbers who can get covid. But you don't want to hear that, amiright?

They were open and busy in Allegheny county,so its a regional thing. But you just don't want to hear that do you?

Reason. It's a dying art.

There's always a second round in a pandemic. Staying home just prolongs it.

Remember this?

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We did this to flatten the curve, to prevent health care form being over run, which has more than been accomplished. Other than a few hotspots, it never even came close, because the models were way off.

Notice, the lockdowns EXTEND the pandemic and may actually INCREASE the numbers who can get covid. But you don't want to hear that, amiright?

Lets see,overwhelm the hospitals guaranteeing more deaths because they could not meet needs or spread it out and at least have a chance. You haven't figured that out yet? I never stated it was to save lives,but hey you want what you want........

Comment removed by me , I'll try to show dignity to all, even those who do not deserve it. Sorry to all for the blast

When there's a vaccine or herd immunity. Nothing else really counts. As the meme says,

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That.  Flattening the curve doesn't save lives, it simply keeps room in the ICU for those who need it.  It's gonna sweep through with the VAST majority of people not having major symptoms.  All "flattening the curve" does is spread out the infection rates so the hospitals can handle those who are in trouble from it.  In West Michigan those numbers are currently very low, but as mentioned, could rise again once we begin to open up a bit.  That is to be expected (and it won't be a surprise nor a "I told you so" moment), because we simply cannot stay hunkered down and quarantined forever.

FYI a real vaccine gives a weakened or dead virus so YOUR body can react to it and achieve immunity.  If you get antibodies it can help you defeat the virus but you don't get immunity from that.

A very simple way to think about it:
Think of an antibody as the laser designator- it marks the virus for destruction.  A type of lymphocyte is like the bomb- it comes in and destroys the viruses marked by the antibodies.  If YOU made your own antibodies, and have immunity.  If you get antibodies from somewhere else (like how we treat rabies in humans) your body will kill the virus, but you don't have immunity.

Yo Jack, you need to get out for a ride and chill, Dude.
Because sooner or later, we’re all going to get it.  Then it will be over.

In the meantime, I’m looking forward to drinking a beer with both you knuckleheads.

  Naw, I am just tired of the idiots who want to force their will and ideas on everyone else. Besides there nowhere really to ride much, nowhere to stop, nowhere to eat, boring ride around rides unless I pack a lunch. And with the Shitshow I have been dealing with, I have ZERO dis ire to ride right now.Not afraid, not worried, just , don't care.

Did your mother have any children who lived Chris?You are a bigoted brain dead individual who immediately thinks everyone who isnt you is afraid ,trust me I am not. Hopefully youll catch the virus and die and I don't care who likes or dislikes that statement. Fuck em

 Now you sound just as bad as the guy that rants about the squids and hopes they crash and die. Anyone that doesn't agree with you, or share your view,  is... nevermind.  This is derailed enough.
 It's time for a  few who can't seem to hold a decent discourse without getting their panties in a bunch, to serve some time out, relax, and chill.

Quote from: maddjack on May 08, 2020, 08:11:45 AM

Did your mother have any children who lived Chris?You are a bigoted brain dead individual who immediately thinks everyone who isnt you is afraid ,trust me I am not. Hopefully youll catch the virus and die and I don't care who likes or dislikes that statement. Fuck em

 Now you sound just as bad as the guy that rants about the squids and hopes they crash and die. Anyone that doesn't agree with you, or share your view,  is... nevermind.  This is derailed enough.
 It's time for a  few who can't seem to hold a decent discourse without getting their panties in a bunch, to serve some time out, relax, and chill.

true but I have my limits

meanwhile out here in the sticks I'll be going for a ride and stopping for a cheeseburger... enjoy your day 

Quote from: Cablebandit on May 08, 2020, 09:18:42 AM

I declare it over...so where is the National Meet this year.




Nevermind, I forgot this isn't a motorcycle forum.

Hell

Your coming to my neck of the woods? 
https://www.michigan.org/article/trip-idea/things-do-hell-michigan-ultimate-pure-michigan-guide

Do we even hold a national meet anymore?

Quote from: maddjack on May 08, 2020, 09:19:50 AM

Quote from: Cablebandit on May 08, 2020, 09:18:42 AM

I declare it over...so where is the National Meet this year.




Nevermind, I forgot this isn't a motorcycle forum.

Hell

Your coming to my neck of the woods? 
https://www.michigan.org/article/trip-idea/things-do-hell-michigan-ultimate-pure-michigan-guide

Do we even hold a national meet anymore?

I wish, those were fun, maybe next year if we can figure a location out.

Quote from: maddjack on May 08, 2020, 08:11:45 AM

Did your mother have any children who lived Chris?You are a bigoted brain dead individual who immediately thinks everyone who isnt you is afraid ,trust me I am not. Hopefully youll catch the virus and die and I don't care who likes or dislikes that statement. Fuck em

 Now you sound just as bad as the guy that rants about the squids and hopes they crash and die. Anyone that doesn't agree with you, or share your view,  is... nevermind.  This is derailed enough.
 It's time for a  few who can't seem to hold a decent discourse without getting their panties in a bunch, to serve some time out, relax, and chill.

Generally, I couldn't care less how people ride, other than they forcefully guarantee that I'm being judged by all the people they pissed off, just because I'm on two wheels. I can deal with that. It sucks, but hey, any group, organized or not, is going to have that.

But when a gaggle of them CHOOSE to blow through a red light and come within a cheapy $7 tape measure of cutting my truck in half at triple digits, yeah, I get pissed, and I make zero apologies for my reaction to that bullshit. This wasn't just a "oh, look at the squids" incident.

What I'm actually sorry for is all the people who sit back with "we all did that shit..." dismissal of just how bad that particular shit can be. No, we didn't all do THAT, and no, we didn't all do it in town.

So if that's what y'all see as what it takes to equate me this that fucking cro-magnon sociopathic douchebag, then I guess I'm hanging out with the wrong crowd. That for that, I am sorry... for wasting your time and mine. I actually really like(d?) some of you quite a bit.

A few points to consider...

1). How ones views this pandemic is almost certainly effected by where one lives AND where they get their information.  If one lives in an area that has been hit hard and/or has people in their circle that have been infected with the virus, they are much more likely to be cautious and less likely to support rapid opening.  On the other hand, those that are in areas where it has not become a real threat and/or don’t know people that have become infected, they will most likely support support opening now. 

2). The infection rate of those tested varies WIDELY across the country.  Based on the tests given nationally the national rate of infection is right at 16%.  The 3 states with the most number of cases (New York, New Jersey, and Massachusetts) however, have a much higher rate of positive test results.  New Jersey is above 40%!   On the other hand, the 10 states with the least number of positive tests have a rate that all together is only 3%!

The point I’m trying to make here is that there is no one size fits all response to this disease.  What works one place won’t necessarily work in another place.  What is needed in one place isn’t necessarily what is needed in another. 

So when Covid is over is probably also going to vary depending on where someone is and how they have personally been effected. Doesn’t matter what side of the debate you’re on. 

"The point I’m trying to make here is that there is no one size fits all response to this disease.  What works one place won’t necessarily work in another place.  What is needed in one place isn’t necessarily what is needed in another."

Welcome to the Cro-magnon sociopath douchebag I hope you die club.

A few points to consider...

The point I’m trying to make here is that there is no one size fits all response to this disease.  What works one place won’t necessarily work in another place.  What is needed in one place isn’t necessarily what is needed in another. 

Don’t go bringing common sense into a discussion with a bunch of hamfisted fuckwits on the internet.

I love this place. 💕

Quote from: Patmo on May 08, 2020, 10:12:25 AM

A few points to consider...

The point I’m trying to make here is that there is no one size fits all response to this disease.  What works one place won’t necessarily work in another place.  What is needed in one place isn’t necessarily what is needed in another. 

Don’t go bringing common sense into a discussion with a bunch of hamfisted fuckwits on the internet.

I love this place. 💕

QFT. I need more popcorn since this thread started....

You fart smellers can always stay home with the blinds drawn while the rest of us adapt and move on. That's called freedom.

Get over it. It's happening.

I have this wonderful image in my head of an old-school medieval castle. Those who are willing to self-isolate sit in their towers and watch the "others" roam around the fields. Eventually, those roaming in the fields all die and the rest of society moves on....

Enjoy your freedom!