... it could be a good time to buy both investments and other stuff soon.

BUY? Woah.
Ok then who wants to buy a really really nice BMW?

Have you seen the graphs that show the difference made by Kentucky's early and aggressive response vs Tennessee's slow and lackluster reaction to covid-19?

What a difference having a good governor makes...  Who'd have thought?


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Sprout’s stay-away summer camp just canceled for the year. He was supposed to go for three weeks this time. He’s bummed.

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Looks like they cancelled all the early summer camps at PSU and online learning is through the summer as well.

I'm guessing the word on lay-offs will be here in a week or so.

They cancelled the Pittsburgh arts festival in June, looks like i won't be selling anything there this year. Hopefully the hand made fair will go on later in the year, but who is to say?

another three weeks of lock down. in good news, the R rate-the transmission rate-is less than 1. we're past the peak of this bout.

Lets hope there isn't a large resurgence as happens sometimes with these nasty bugs

Today Switzerland announced an updated timeline, to be done in three phases:

Continued "lock down" (which isn't all that serious, unless you happen to own or work at a non-essential business  ) until April 27th.

Phase 1. APRIL 27: The following services may resume:
A. Inpatient and Outpatient procedures (including physio, dentistry, medical massage)
B. Personal Services (hairdressers, massage therapists, tattoo artists, cosmeticians)
C. Hardware stores and garden centers (Obi, Bau & Hobby, Wyss, etc.)
D. Extended family and friends may attend funerals
E. Restrictions in grocery stores (all products within the store may be sold)

Phase 2. MAY 11: The following will reopen:
A. Shops and markets
B. Obligatory (primary) schools
(The Federal Council will decide on April 29)

Phase 3. JUNE 8: The following will open:
A. (Middle Schools, Vocational Schools, and Higher Education) will allow face-to-face instruction.
B. Museums, Libraries, Botanical Gardens, and the Zoo Basel
(The Federal Council will decide on May 27)


Of course, the government said that these timelines would depend on if there was any resurgence in the virus (which is to be expected, of course) 

Today Switzerland announced an updated timeline, to be done in three phases:

Continued "lock down" (which isn't all that serious, unless you happen to own or work at a non-essential business  ) until April 27th.

Phase 1. APRIL 27: The following services may resume:
A. Inpatient and Outpatient procedures (including physio, dentistry, medical massage)
B. Personal Services (hairdressers, massage therapists, tattoo artists, cosmeticians)
C. Hardware stores and garden centers (Obi, Bau & Hobby, Wyss, etc.)
D. Extended family and friends may attend funerals
E. Restrictions in grocery stores (all products within the store may be sold)

Phase 2. MAY 11: The following will reopen:
A. Shops and markets
B. Obligatory (primary) schools
(The Federal Council will decide on April 29)

Phase 3. JUNE 8: The following will open:
A. (Middle Schools, Vocational Schools, and Higher Education) will allow face-to-face instruction.
B. Museums, Libraries, Botanical Gardens, and the Zoo Basel
(The Federal Council will decide on May 27)


Of course, the government said that these timelines would depend on if there was any resurgence in the virus (which is to be expected, of course) 

Leave it to the Swiss to actually have a plan. (I think this is good; just laughing at the stereotype)

Keep us posted.

Quote from: Papa Lazarou on April 16, 2020, 12:33:26 PM

another three weeks of lock down. in good news, the R rate-the transmission rate-is less than 1. we're past the peak of this bout.

Lets hope there isn't a large resurgence as happens sometimes with these nasty bugs

Unless this WAS round two....


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Interesting times indeed.

https://abc7chicago.com/family/ny-mom-meets-newborn-10-days-after-recovering-from-covid-19-related-coma/6107561/

it's not a weapon. It is not linked to 5G.

it has just jumped species, same as SARS 1. no point looking for the most convoluted explanation. Occam's razor and all that.

And there are (apparently, depending on source, blah, blah, blah) a lot of reinfections, so the viral immunity is very finite, or the mutations are many and subtle.

Which is *always*, 100% a huge worry with novel species jumping viruses.

Like I got shut down on when I brought it up like 6 weeks ago or something.

So... wheeeeeeeee.

This has already been established

... theorized and talked about by a fringe minority, but not proven, nor has any proof been released for peer review (since the last time I checked).

Also, as bio-weapons go, this is perhaps the biggest flop in the known universe because
1) while it's deadly as fuck compared to many other "just a flu" things, it's nowhere near deadly enough to guarantee success as a weapon...
2) the chinese government doesn't do half measures when it comes to systematic take-overs, so we're all going to die of brain explosions in 10 years after we've all forgotten about 'that really bad flu that year'...
3) the chinese government, reluctantly or not, released knowledge of it and why would they if it was a weapon...?

I think at this point its pretty well agreed that it was NOT an engineered in the lab virus.
https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2020-04-16/esper-coronavirus-was-natural-not-engineered-according-to-majority-of-assessments


The only question is whether the jump happened in the wet market, or was the Chinese Govt' isolating and studying the virus at the Wuhan Lab and there was an accidental breach of safety protocols.

I think at this point its pretty well agreed that it was NOT an engineered in the lab virus.
https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2020-04-16/esper-coronavirus-was-natural-not-engineered-according-to-majority-of-assessments


The only question is whether the jump happened in the wet market, or was the Chinese Govt' isolating and studying the virus at the Wuhan Lab and there was an accidental breach of safety protocols.

*** DING DING DING ***

If considering two arguments, one being a complex conspiracy theory and the other old fashioned human incompetence, choose the incompetence argument every time.

Species jump from bats (whose immune systems evolve incredibly rapidly and are in an arms race with viruses, so viruses mutate in bat populations very fast) to another, as yet unknown (but possibly a pangolin) species.

Chinese sell and buy wild animals in wet markets (so called because they cool the food by chucking water over it-nothing to do with fish) and voila, a disaster waiting to happen.

Same goes for African "bush meat".

*** DING DING DING ***

Unless someone provides the link to the scientific paper demonstrating identity with HIV sequences, I'm in the bat camp or incompetence camp.

https://youtu.be/Gdd7dtDaYmM

Hour long documentary.  The evidence is apparent.  The conclusions are right there.  China believes in victory at any cost.  Yes, this is a poor weaponized virus, but perhaps it’s because it’s not the finished product.  I don’t doubt this was an accidental containment breach.

One of the reasons bio weapon research is banned is because of the damage that could be done just from an accidental release.  The bats in the wet market are proven false.  The gene sequence evidence is solid. 

Quote from: zer0netgain on April 17, 2020, 12:01:29 PM

Quote from: viffergyrl on April 17, 2020, 10:53:15 AM

Unless someone provides the link to the scientific paper demonstrating identity with HIV sequences, I'm in the bat camp or incompetence camp.

https://youtu.be/Gdd7dtDaYmM

Hour long documentary.  The evidence is apparent.  The conclusions are right there.  China believes in victory at any cost.  Yes, this is a poor weaponized virus, but perhaps it’s because it’s not the finished product.  I don’t doubt this was an accidental containment breach.

One of the reasons bio weapon research is banned is because of the damage that could be done just from an accidental release.  The bats in the wet market are proven false.  The gene sequence evidence is solid.

A YouTube video is not a peer-reviewed, vetted scientific paper. Do a search on PubMed to find the original paper(s).

too true. the other clue the documentary might not be sound is----it's on social media!

Quote from: viffergyrl on April 17, 2020, 12:06:02 PM

Quote from: zer0netgain on April 17, 2020, 12:01:29 PM

Quote from: viffergyrl on April 17, 2020, 10:53:15 AM

Unless someone provides the link to the scientific paper demonstrating identity with HIV sequences, I'm in the bat camp or incompetence camp.

https://youtu.be/Gdd7dtDaYmM

Hour long documentary.  The evidence is apparent.  The conclusions are right there.  China believes in victory at any cost.  Yes, this is a poor weaponized virus, but perhaps it’s because it’s not the finished product.  I don’t doubt this was an accidental containment breach.

One of the reasons bio weapon research is banned is because of the damage that could be done just from an accidental release.  The bats in the wet market are proven false.  The gene sequence evidence is solid.

A YouTube video is not a peer-reviewed, vetted scientific paper. Do a search on PubMed to find the original paper(s).

too true. the other clue the documentary might not be sound is----it's on social media!

I think it's more likely than not that the producers of that video are Russian trolls.

Full disclosure: I have a Ph.D. in biochemistry and performed molecular genetic studies back in the dark ages of the 80s and 90s. I have published papers. I have poured my own sequencing gels and used radioactivity (!). I have aligned and compared sequences between different organisms.

None of that makes me wicked smaht, but it does make me smahter than your average bear.

PS I know how science is supposed to be performed. Scientists disagree all the time. Well-designed, repeatable experiments are how you prove you're right. (Remember cold fusion?) Hint: Any time you hear "the science has been settled", it's either been a long time or the science has been co-opted.

Quote from: viffergyrl on April 17, 2020, 01:33:23 PM

Full disclosure: I have a Ph.D. in biochemistry and performed molecular genetic studies back in the dark ages of the 80s and 90s. I have published papers. I have poured my own sequencing gels and used radioactivity (!). I have aligned and compared sequences between different organisms.

None of that makes me wicked smaht, but it does make me smahter than your average bear.

PS I know how science is supposed to be performed. Scientists disagree all the time. Well-designed, repeatable experiments are how you prove you're right. (Remember cold fusion?) Hint: Any time you hear "the science has been settled", it's either been a long time or the science has been co-opted.

thank you doctor.

I tend to agree with the doctor. If there is incompetence, it's in the CYA actions of the local and or national officials that tried to put a lid on it.

Full disclosure: I have a Ph.D. in biochemistry and performed molecular genetic studies back in the dark ages of the 80s and 90s. I have published papers. I have poured my own sequencing gels and used radioactivity (!). I have aligned and compared sequences between different organisms.

None of that makes me wicked smaht, but it does make me smahter than your average bear.

I share the couch with a smhart bear - and his Ph.D. is being put to use daily here at work, so he is fully up-do-date on how the science should work, and laughs with derision / frustration when he heres some of these theories come out of the "news".

I have full confidence in the scientists in my life to be able to spot the BS that some people (youtube and politicians alike) try to feed us.   

Here's a link to a reliable source, with brief analyses of some of the various corona virus conspiracy theories.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52310194

Okay, so, BBC is credible?  Let’s look at the relevant portion of the story....

Apologies for the length....

The virus wasn't created in a lab

A video published by the Epoch Times, that contains claims that the coronavirus was created in a laboratory, has been marked false on Facebook where it has been watched almost 70 million times.

FACEBOOK DOES NOT FACT CHECK.  Facebook has attacked many posts as “fake news” only to backpedal when the MSM starts reporting the exact same thing.  They will mark stuff as “fake news” even when the MSM is the cited source of the material.  What Facebook, YouTube and others do is have people using their SUBJECTIVE opinion to mark items as fake without doing any research or checking any of the cited sources first.

The opening feels like a slick and dramatic Netflix documentary - there's a flash and crack of a lightning bolt followed by ominous music.

The hour-long video includes a theory about a lab in Wuhan creating the virus and leaking it, due to poor security.

The BBC's science editor, Paul Rincon, says "there's currently no evidence that any research institute in Wuhan was the source of Sars-CoV-2" (which causes Covid-19).

Scientific analysis of the evidence shows the virus came from animals, and was not man-made.

Where is the science editor’s sources.  What are HIS credentials?  Being an “editor” does not confer any special knowledge of the subject matter covered. 

A peer-reviewed study in March found no evidence the coronavirus had been engineered, stating that "it is improbable that SARS-CoV-2 emerged through laboratory manipulation."

“A” (singular) study....were there others?  Did they agree?  Always watch the words people choose to use.  One study alone doesn’t necessarily prove or disprove something. 

The video also refers to a study from Indian researchers that claimed to find four new sequences had been inserted into the new coronavirus, which were also present in HIV, to suggest the virus is man-made.
But that paper, never peer-reviewed, was withdrawn by its authors. And the genetic information that had matched is common in many other organisms.

Again, lack of peer review doesn’t prove or disprove something.

"Those sequences are so short that they match with many different organisms, not just HIV. It doesn't mean they're related," says Dr Jeremy Rossman, a virologist at the University of Kent.

Again, look at the wording.  HIV is not an organism...it is a virus.  So, this statement could mean the gene sequence is common in many organisms affected by HIV.  The alleged sequences in the documentary take a deadlier flu virus and gives it the ability to enter human cells.  The gene sequences are 100% matches for the HIV virus...something that is highly improbable to impossible if it resulted from crossing species naturally.

Epoch Times, based in New York City, was started by Chinese-Americans affiliated with a religious group called Falun Gong.

The site spent heavily on pro-Donald Trump Facebook adverts last year, reported NBC News.
But in August Facebook banned it from taking out more ads for violating its policies.

Okay, they might as well have said “the outlawed group called Falun Gong.”  It’s what they are implying as China persecutes any non-state-approved religion.  All the MSM spent their money backing Hillary Clinton, and again, they cite a source that doesn’t fact check before declaring something as true or false.

Likewise, criticizing an organization is not refutation.  Did he ask the organization to copy them of their source citations?  Did he follow them to verify their veracity?  Not that this story indicates.  It’s a critique of a VIDEO with some generalized refutations.  We’ve seen this nonsense when people criticize Glenn Beck for positions he’s taken that later are proven true.  When he publishes a book on a topic, I normally includes a huge section detailing all of his sources.  His critics never dispute his sources...they dispute his presentation.

MY POINT IN ALL OF THIS is be careful who you think is a trusted source.  The MSM won’t report or criticize China because of the threat of loss of ad revenue or that China holds an ownership interest is many companies that could retaliate against the media for publishing unfavorable news stories.

The BBC is basically the UK’s version of MSNBC and CNN...discredited, politically-driven media reporting.

I truly believe that we are at a time where there is NO trustworthy source of information.

Everything is about $$$.

The truth belongs to whoever writes the largest check.

This is the truest thing here.



Mike, you can find any conspiracy anywhere if you look hard enough. The overwhelmingly large body of information continues to suggest this is a species jump; let that be scary enough, because it is.

Even if some time in the future we learn that it's 100% engineered - which it really, truly, most likely is not - that doesn't help curtail the spread of it by whackjobs who somehow think they're above it all. I watched a video this morning of people being interviewed leaving a church, saying they were protected because they were "covered in the blood of christ" and "even though I see both sides (protip: there aren't any fucking sides) I'm protected through my faith and if others don't have faith, they don't have the lord's protection."

You want to fear something? Fear that irrational bullshit.

There's enough scary shit in the world, in the here and now, in the basest explanations of how we're all just trying to get through a day, without perpetuating a bunch of fear and conspiracy-based unproven tripe.

Stop it.

...you can find any conspiracy anywhere if you look hard enough. The overwhelmingly large body of information continues to suggest this is a species jump; let that be scary enough, because it is.

"QFT", as they say.