Author Topic: Kawasaki's Supercharged engine revealed (Read 1964 times)

bubba zanetti · « **on:** November 20, 2013, 09:29:22 AM »

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-new-bikes/kawasakis-supercharged-four-cylinder-engine/24037.html

HERE’S Kawasaki’s new supercharged four-cylinder motorcycle engine – revealed today in Tokyo.

Details are scant. Even the capacity is currently unknown, although there’s something rather ZX-6R-ish about the motor’s castings. With Suzuki’s turbocharged 588cc twin-cylinder Recursion concept bike also on show, it looks like boost really could be coming back to motorcycles for the first time since the 1980s.

Read more: http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-new-bikes/kawasakis-supercharged-four-cylinder-engine/24037.html#ixzz2lCSzPNWN

Veefer800canuck · « **Reply #1 on:** November 20, 2013, 09:56:53 AM »

Wow, this could be a game changer. No lightswitch powerband with a supercharger.

Blunder · « **Reply #2 on:** November 20, 2013, 11:20:40 AM »

Shove, squeeze, bang and blow? Let the good times roll with the Kawasaki Kompressor.

Actually, it would be lightswitch like power. Right now, whenever you want it. No waiting.

bubba zanetti · « **Reply #3 on:** November 20, 2013, 11:29:09 AM »

Never ridden or driven a supercharged machine but have read plenty about them. I look forward to see if this takes root or is just a notion.

Squareman357 · « **Reply #4 on:** November 20, 2013, 02:30:51 PM »

Quote from: Blunder on November 20, 2013, 11:20:40 AM

Shove, squeeze, bang and blow? Let the good times roll with the Kawasaki Kompressor.

Actually, it would be lightswitch like power. Right now, whenever you want it. No waiting.

What's the difference between that and a ZX-14 engine, which is right there, whenever I want it, no waiting, bottomless well of power. Is it that they can get more power out of a smaller engine?

bomber · « **Reply #5 on:** November 20, 2013, 02:32:24 PM »

Quote from: bubba zanetti on November 20, 2013, 11:29:09 AM

Never ridden or driven a supercharged machine but have read plenty about them. I look forward to see if this takes root or is just a notion.

groan . .. . . . .

Cablebandit · « **Reply #6 on:** November 20, 2013, 02:42:43 PM »

Quote from: Squareman357 on November 20, 2013, 02:30:51 PM

What's the difference between that and a ZX-14 engine, which is right there, whenever I want it, no waiting, bottomless well of power. Is it that they can get more power out of a smaller engine?

That's my thinking. More grunt from a smaller mill.

Like the ZX14 the C14 has torque everywhere.

bomber · « **Reply #7 on:** November 20, 2013, 02:55:14 PM »

Quote from: Squareman357 on November 20, 2013, 02:30:51 PM

Quote from: Blunder on November 20, 2013, 11:20:40 AM
Shove, squeeze, bang and blow? Let the good times roll with the Kawasaki Kompressor.

Actually, it would be lightswitch like power. Right now, whenever you want it. No waiting.

What's the difference between that and a ZX-14 engine, which is right there, whenever I want it, no waiting, bottomless well of power. Is it that they can get more power out of a smaller engine?

As cable sez, more power from a smaller displacement engine . . . . . which allows less overall weight, smaller chassis, potentially better handling, less costly suspenders for the same amount of filthy lucre . . . .

Making engines larger has a lot to recommend it, but it does start a snowball affect . . . .

Cablebandit · « **Reply #8 on:** November 20, 2013, 02:59:29 PM »

CONCOURS 800!!!!

2RR2NV · « **Reply #9 on:** November 20, 2013, 03:09:00 PM »

OH OH OH!!! a blower on the 14R!!! oh yeah!!

oh wait, it's only on small engines...

that blows!

Squareman357 · « **Reply #10 on:** November 20, 2013, 03:19:26 PM »

Quote from: 2RR2NV on November 20, 2013, 03:09:00 PM

OH OH OH!!! a blower on the 14R!!! oh yeah!!

oh wait, it's only on small engines... that blows!

LOL!

Flyer · « **Reply #11 on:** November 20, 2013, 04:18:42 PM »

"Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown."

CLAY · « **Reply #12 on:** November 20, 2013, 05:40:36 PM »

Quote from: Squareman357 on November 20, 2013, 02:30:51 PM

Quote from: Blunder on November 20, 2013, 11:20:40 AM
Shove, squeeze, bang and blow? Let the good times roll with the Kawasaki Kompressor.

Actually, it would be lightswitch like power. Right now, whenever you want it. No waiting.

What's the difference between that and a ZX-14 engine, which is right there, whenever I want it, no waiting, bottomless well of power. Is it that they can get more power out of a smaller engine?

About 100 lbs?

2RR2NV · « **Reply #13 on:** November 20, 2013, 06:13:41 PM »

Quote from: CLAY on November 20, 2013, 05:40:36 PM

Quote from: Squareman357 on November 20, 2013, 02:30:51 PM
Quote from: Blunder on November 20, 2013, 11:20:40 AM
Shove, squeeze, bang and blow? Let the good times roll with the Kawasaki Kompressor.

Actually, it would be lightswitch like power. Right now, whenever you want it. No waiting.

What's the difference between that and a ZX-14 engine, which is right there, whenever I want it, no waiting, bottomless well of power. Is it that they can get more power out of a smaller engine?

About 100 lbs?

but i doubt it'll put out as much HP or torque as the 14 and/or achieve equal or better Power/weight. nice thought tho. now if they put a blower on the 14, i think i might have trade in my 14 cause it would be waaaaaaaaay too slow.

bomber · « **Reply #14 on:** November 20, 2013, 06:21:16 PM »

2 -- yer likley right about lesser power/weight -- but, much like comparing small block and big block Cobras, under equal riders on an interesting road, I'd take the blown small bike, every time.

HipGnosis · « **Reply #15 on:** November 20, 2013, 08:16:26 PM »

Quote from: bomber on November 20, 2013, 02:55:14 PM

As cable sez, more power from a smaller displacement engine . . . . . which allows less overall weight, smaller chassis, potentially better handling, less costly suspenders for the same amount of filthy lucre . . . .
Making engines larger has a lot to recommend it, but it does start a snowball affect . . . .

But it's not quite that easy and simple.
I turbo'd a KZ 650 in the 80's...
To do it right, the engine needs to beefed up. virtually everywhere.
The tranny needs to be made to handle the power. Ditto for the cooling, chassis, suspension and brakes.
I'm sure there have been improvements and probably break-throughs, but they can't defy physics.
My turbo-650 was an expensive lesson that it's cheaper and easier to buy a bigger bike.

Cablebandit · « **Reply #16 on:** November 20, 2013, 08:24:53 PM »

I think the key here is YOU were jury-rigging a turbo onto the bike. Properly done from the factory everything you bring up is not that big a deal.

M.Brane · « **Reply #17 on:** November 20, 2013, 08:26:32 PM »

I was very bummed to find out this kit has been discontinued now that I can afford it: http://www.aaperf.com/vfrkit-gen5.html

Blunder · « **Reply #18 on:** November 20, 2013, 08:32:50 PM »

Quote from: Squareman357 on November 20, 2013, 02:30:51 PM

Quote from: Blunder on November 20, 2013, 11:20:40 AM
Shove, squeeze, bang and blow? Let the good times roll with the Kawasaki Kompressor.

Actually, it would be lightswitch like power. Right now, whenever you want it. No waiting.

What's the difference between that and a ZX-14 engine, which is right there, whenever I want it, no waiting, bottomless well of power. Is it that they can get more power out of a smaller engine?

That's basically the question that spelled the doom of the Turbo era in the early '80s. The Kawaski GPz750 Turbo was the fiercest of the type, but for about the same price you could have the same performance with a GPz1100 and not have to deal with some of the Turbo's eccentricities, like paying slavish attention to oil quality and levels and letting the little blower slow to a stop before sutting the engine off.

The turbos were an answer to a question nobody was asking.

malbojah · « **Reply #19 on:** November 20, 2013, 09:57:11 PM »

Quote from: bomber on November 20, 2013, 02:55:14 PM

As cable sez, more power from a smaller displacement engine . . . . . which allows less overall weight, smaller chassis, potentially better handling, less costly suspenders for the same amount of filthy lucre . . . .

Making engines larger has a lot to recommend it, but it does start a snowball affect . . . .

Weight difference between the 6R and the 10R is only 7 pounds. Unless the SC is made out of Titanium and Carbon Fiber....and Unicorn Tears ®

SC also takes up a lot of space were the airbox / fuel tank goes

spinalator · « **Reply #20 on:** November 21, 2013, 09:00:25 AM »

I think what we have learned from German/Italian auto makers is that Turbos don't work, and likely have no future.

Cablebandit · « **Reply #21 on:** November 21, 2013, 09:08:42 AM »

A whole lot of hate on manufacturers trying new things.

I thought this forum was better than that.

Prubert · « **Reply #22 on:** November 21, 2013, 09:10:08 AM »

Quote from: M.Brane on November 20, 2013, 08:26:32 PM

I was very bummed to find out this kit has been discontinued now that I can afford it: http://www.aaperf.com/vfrkit-gen5.html

The Toro-charger! That thing is a beast. Expensive....but worth it.

Jim · « **Reply #23 on:** November 21, 2013, 09:11:31 AM »

More automotive motors are going turbo for emissions reasons.

Could the move to turbo'd motorcycle motors be coming from the same arena? This might be a "beginning of the curve" production.

Squareman357 · « **Reply #24 on:** November 21, 2013, 09:15:32 AM »

Quote from: Jim on November 21, 2013, 09:11:31 AM

More automotive motors are going turbo for emissions reasons.

Could the move to turbo'd motorcycle motors be coming from the same arena? This might be a "beginning of the curve" production.

Enlighten me. I'm not that knowledgeable on motors and whatnot. Why would a turbo be better for emissions?

tyrroneous · « **Reply #25 on:** November 21, 2013, 09:18:00 AM »

I was a 6th gen owner back when Toro was developing his Toro-charger...that was a great thread to read. I would love to ride a VFR with THAT much power. Would probably be the perfect bike for my needs/wants.

tyrroneous · « **Reply #26 on:** November 21, 2013, 09:19:56 AM »

Quote from: Squareman357 on November 21, 2013, 09:15:32 AM

Quote from: Jim on November 21, 2013, 09:11:31 AM
More automotive motors are going turbo for emissions reasons.

Could the move to turbo'd motorcycle motors be coming from the same arena? This might be a "beginning of the curve" production.

Enlighten me. I'm not that knowledgeable on motors and whatnot. Why would a turbo be better for emissions?

My guess would be smaller tubo'd motors with torque/hp output equal to a larger displacement motor. Generally, smaller motor = less emissions.

Leanintree · « **Reply #27 on:** November 21, 2013, 09:30:42 AM »

Quote from: tyrroneous on November 21, 2013, 09:19:56 AM

Quote from: Squareman357 on November 21, 2013, 09:15:32 AM
Quote from: Jim on November 21, 2013, 09:11:31 AM
More automotive motors are going turbo for emissions reasons.

Could the move to turbo'd motorcycle motors be coming from the same arena? This might be a "beginning of the curve" production.

Enlighten me. I'm not that knowledgeable on motors and whatnot. Why would a turbo be better for emissions?

My guess would be smaller tubo'd motors with torque/hp output equal to a larger displacement motor. Generally, smaller motor = less emissions.

As well, a turbo effectively recycles some of the exhaust into the system. Helps clean up some of those Nasty hydrocarbons. And that's how turbo units get gunked... by acting as a filter for the exhaust. Ever rebuilt a Caterpiller? That turbo is pretty nasty with soot and crap that gets shoved through it.

LT

PatM · « **Reply #28 on:** November 21, 2013, 10:20:55 AM »

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Quote

Kawasaki engines never struck me as weak little things to begin with, and depending on the amount of boost, this could add enormous power. I'm not sure which model or models it's intended for, but if you start with a ZX14, what you'll be able to do with that on the street is open to debate, but I imagine the marketing department will find a use for it.

http://thekneeslider.com/kawasaki-supercharger-patent-drawings/

Jim · « **Reply #29 on:** November 21, 2013, 12:39:28 PM »

Quote from: tyrroneous on November 21, 2013, 09:19:56 AM

My guess would be smaller tubo'd motors with torque/hp output equal to a larger displacement motor. Generally, smaller motor = less emissions.

This is my belief - wring out as much power from as little displacement as possible. Along with variable cylinder drop-out/disable (direct reduction of displacement that is processing fuel).

Quote from: Leanintree on November 21, 2013, 09:30:42 AM

As well, a turbo effectively recycles some of the exhaust into the system. Helps clean up some of those Nasty hydrocarbons. And that's how turbo units get gunked... by acting as a filter for the exhaust. Ever rebuilt a Caterpiller? That turbo is pretty nasty with soot and crap that gets shoved through it.

I don't agree with this. Spent exhaust does not get recycled into the clean air intake stream (which is what I'm taking from your reply). The spent exhaust is used to spin the turbo and is then moved through the rest of the exhaust system and out. Because the turbo is a two vane device, the "other" vane is used to pressurize / pack-in more clean air into the intake system.

giaka · « **Reply #30 on:** November 21, 2013, 03:43:14 PM »

Quote from: Jim on November 21, 2013, 12:39:28 PM

I don't agree with this. Spent exhaust does not get recycled into the clean air intake stream (which is what I'm taking from your reply). The spent exhaust is used to spin the turbo and is then moved through the rest of the exhaust system and out. Because the turbo is a two vane device, the "other" vane is used to pressurize / pack-in more clean air into the intake system.

The hot section gets hot enough to more than likely reduce emissions. When I built my turbo car watching the EGT was always fun.

sscully · « **Reply #31 on:** November 21, 2013, 06:48:52 PM »

A lot of questions on if it will work, mentioning turbos when it is a supercharger.
no spool up on a S/C, so no waiting...

I think engineers know the difference between a S/C ( also correctly called a blower from the other antique up the thread ) and a Turbo ( like the Suzi concept is doing ). That looks like a mechanical driven unit not xhst gas driven.

2RR2NV · « **Reply #32 on:** November 21, 2013, 09:44:54 PM »

Quote from: tyrroneous on November 21, 2013, 09:19:56 AM

Quote from: Squareman357 on November 21, 2013, 09:15:32 AM
Quote from: Jim on November 21, 2013, 09:11:31 AM
More automotive motors are going turbo for emissions reasons.

Could the move to turbo'd motorcycle motors be coming from the same arena? This might be a "beginning of the curve" production.

Enlighten me. I'm not that knowledgeable on motors and whatnot. Why would a turbo be better for emissions?

My guess would be smaller tubo'd motors with torque/hp output equal to a larger displacement motor. Generally, smaller motor = less emissions.

you. guessed. correctly.

as MPGs get more important, companies are trying to give customers HP but with the possibility of pretty good MPGs if the customer wants it too. smaller engine = lower emissions. but add turbo, gain mostly HP and torque (if done right).

Jim · « **Reply #33 on:** November 21, 2013, 09:45:42 PM »

Quote from: sscully on November 21, 2013, 06:48:52 PM

A lot of questions on if it will work, mentioning turbos when it is a supercharger.

Correct. Sorry about the continued thread slide WRT turbo's.

Mac · « **Reply #34 on:** November 21, 2013, 11:41:23 PM »

Finally, power at high altitudes!!

Jim · « **Reply #35 on:** November 22, 2013, 12:50:39 AM »

Quote from: Mac on November 21, 2013, 11:41:23 PM

Finally, power at high altitudes!!

LOL - I'm reading an article in PopSci where they're talking about finally having consistent power at the Pike's Peak race. IC engines, it appears, lose about 30% power from start to finish due to thinning air - but - one power mode is even the whole route - electrons packed into batteries...

http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2013-09/colorado-racecourse-electric-cars-are-new-performance-vehicles

(sorry about the threadjack to a nice Kawi motor)