Author Topic: technology, bikes vs. cars (Read 5152 times)

Black Hills · « **on:** May 14, 2014, 01:44:58 PM »

to get this out of the thread where it doesn't belong I will start fresh. I've been thinking why is it so hard to accept change in the M/C world when the very changes we complain about we happily accept in our 4 wheeled vehicles? hell, most of the things we complain about keeping on motorcycles we would not accept on our car/truck? a few examples:

chain vs. shaft

carbs vs. EFI

canbus

ABS/TC

etc.

Max Wedge · « **Reply #1 on:** May 14, 2014, 02:24:35 PM »

With the exception of chain/shaft drive (I wasn't around when we went there), I know people who resisted the change in their cars when it happened. I know people who still hate fuel injection on their bikes. I know people who still look for ABS to be an option on their cars. My bike has ABS, my 4 wheeled vehicle does not.
It may be because of living/working in the Detroit area, but change is always fought, more cars than bikes. Everyone here is always wanting the new technology in their bikes, but want their cars to be easily serviced at home.

Local thing?

I'm NOT Carl · « **Reply #2 on:** May 14, 2014, 02:33:36 PM »

Perhaps that's part of it. I like being able to work on my bike. It makes me feel like I'm in control. Like I know what I'm doing.

With EFI, I don't have to deal with carburetor issues but if something happens to it, I have to take it to the dealer to resolve (well, most likely vs hunting down how to replace/repair on the 'net or in the book). But of course if it never breaks down (like my EFI on the 'busa), I don't have a problem. But if it does (like it did on the Harley), I'm done. Push the bike onto the truck and take me to the dealer.

If something happens to the chain or gears, I can pop out the handy socket wrench and chain breaker and replace it. Heck if I'm on the road, I can probably jury-rig the chain and limp to town (I keep a set of clip-ons in my bag for trips). It's not something I want to do 180mph on, but it'll get me where I can get it repaired. If the shaft breaks down (where are the BMW folks), I'm likely on the side of the road and hoofing it to town leaving the bike undefended.

Carl

Cablebandit · « **Reply #3 on:** May 14, 2014, 02:34:22 PM »

I thought everyone who rode a bike was instantly better/faster/stronger than any new-fangled tech.

melville · « **Reply #4 on:** May 14, 2014, 02:39:20 PM »

Full analog fleet here, bike and cages. But I'm looking to put EFI on the Kombi when the motor comes out this summer. And I spoze it and the Airhead both have after market electronic ignitions.

Yes, I'm the service at home guy. Muriel has a Prius--I can open the hood and identify nearly all the fluids. I'm qualified to check most of them, and to service a few of them. Otherwise I'm very thankful that we've not had to dick with it in the six years she's had it. It's a weird world these days--a 200 page owner's manual, and nowhere in there is a picture of the engine with the valve cover off. What's up with that?

Cablebandit · « **Reply #5 on:** May 14, 2014, 02:45:32 PM »

Quote from: melville on May 14, 2014, 02:39:20 PM

It's a weird world these days--a 200 page owner's manual, and nowhere in there is a picture of the engine with the valve cover off. What's up with that?

They tend to include that in the service manual.

Most vehicles with modern tech are still relatively easy to work on. You just need a different set of "tools". Most people hate change. I doubt people raised on fuel injection would EVER say "man I need to convert this to carbs.

M.Brane · « **Reply #6 on:** May 14, 2014, 03:12:17 PM »

The service manual for viffergyrl's 07 Acura TL is the size of a large city phone book with pages just as thin. It's basically a rolling computer, and knowing computers I prefer to keep them out of my vehicles for the most part.

Black Hills · « **Reply #7 on:** May 14, 2014, 03:34:29 PM »

Quote from: M.Brane on May 14, 2014, 03:12:17 PM

The service manual for viffergyrl's 07 Acura TL is the size of a large city phone book with pages just as thin. It's basically a rolling computer, and knowing computers I prefer to keep them out of my vehicles for the most part.

my thought as well, but based on my vehicle history the results are the opposite. the old stuff while easy to work on breaks a lot. the new stuff not so much.

M.Brane · « **Reply #8 on:** May 14, 2014, 04:07:19 PM »

Quote from: Black Hills on May 14, 2014, 03:34:29 PM

Quote from: M.Brane on May 14, 2014, 03:12:17 PM
The service manual for viffergyrl's 07 Acura TL is the size of a large city phone book with pages just as thin. It's basically a rolling computer, and knowing computers I prefer to keep them out of my vehicles for the most part.

my thought as well, but based on my vehicle history the results are the opposite. the old stuff while easy to work on breaks a lot. the new stuff not so much.

Funny my experience has been opposite for the most part given the same level of care.

Black Hills · « **Reply #9 on:** May 14, 2014, 04:58:18 PM »

2001 dodge 1500 gas - 150,000mi. needed a pinion bearing
2001 dodge 2500 diesel - 250,000mi. clutch master cylinder and timing cover
2001 Audi A6 189,000 -cam tensioners, O2 sensor, drive shaft
1990 Audi V8 quatoo - 170,000 alternator
1966 JD 3020

generator, regulator, carb rebuild, points, front wheel bearings, repair worn wiring
bikes needed nothing, but a lot fewer miles:
'84 XL600-40k
'84 V45 magna-60k
'87 nighthawk S (2)- 70k total (wrecked the first one)
'90 VFR-40k
'02?VTX1800-12k
'04 CBR954-55k
'11 990adventure 20k
a bunch of Honda and KTM dirtbikes as well

I guess everything is fairly reliable these days so I wouldn't worry about it

kneescrubber · « **Reply #10 on:** May 14, 2014, 06:06:24 PM »

Quote from: Black Hills on May 14, 2014, 04:58:18 PM

2001 dodge 1500 gas - 150,000mi. needed a pinion bearing
2001 dodge 2500 diesel - 250,000mi. clutch master cylinder and timing cover
2001 Audi A6 189,000 -cam tensioners, O2 sensor, drive shaft
1990 Audi V8 quatoo - 170,000 alternator
1966 JD 3020 generator, regulator, carb rebuild, points, front wheel bearings, repair worn wiring
bikes needed nothing, but a lot fewer miles:
'84 XL600-40k
'84 V45 magna-60k
'87 nighthawk S (2)- 70k total (wrecked the first one)
'90 VFR-40k
'02?VTX1800-12k
'04 CBR954-55k
'11 990adventure 20k
a bunch of Honda and KTM dirtbikes as well

I'm not sure your list is helping your cause as I'm understanding it, with an eye towards your OP.

Quote from: Black Hills on May 14, 2014, 04:58:18 PM

I guess everything is fairly reliable these days so I wouldn't worry about it

Are you asserting modern equipment should be more reliable than previous?

Black Hills · « **Reply #11 on:** May 14, 2014, 08:18:12 PM »

I'm saying that new is far more reliable than old. I think a lot of people have bad memories, old cars took a lot more work than new ones do. How many old cars went 150,000+miles with no real work? My 1970 duster was completely word out by 110,000?

kneescrubber · « **Reply #12 on:** May 14, 2014, 08:36:12 PM »

You certainly have a bone to pick.

I would question your definition of reliable.

Black Hills · « **Reply #13 on:** May 14, 2014, 09:23:08 PM »

Quote from: kneescrubber on May 14, 2014, 08:36:12 PM

You certainly have a bone to pick.

I would question your definition of reliable.

Opinions vary. Mine is you can drive a new car a lot farther without a repair than you could an old one. Simply my opinion but I don't see a lot of people driving old cars anymore? And the ones that have nicely restored models put a lot of effort into not driving them too far? But just my opinion, don't take it too seriously

wibornz · « **Reply #14 on:** May 14, 2014, 09:33:31 PM »

New is way more reliable.

kneescrubber · « **Reply #15 on:** May 14, 2014, 09:37:37 PM »

I don't take anything on a public bulletin board seriously.

Andrew · « **Reply #16 on:** May 15, 2014, 10:12:44 PM »

Quote from: kneescrubber on May 14, 2014, 09:37:37 PM

I don't take anything on a public bulletin board seriously.

Should we take that comment seriously?

Newer vehicles IMHO are a lot more reliable (with the exception of BMW & Honda motorcycles)
Pervious poster mentioned that it was just a new set of tools, But I must add and the knowledge of how the newer systems work.
Points & carbs are rather simple to understand, add computers and software into the mix and it becomes a bit more complex of a concept to grasp.

coucours grad · « **Reply #17 on:** May 16, 2014, 10:31:15 AM »

4 things I never wanted to see on a bike in 1994...

fuel injection, linked brakes, a fairing and shaft drive.

Now it is my "no bike without list. "

Opinions and technology change with time. You can either keep up or stay in the past.

Cablebandit · « **Reply #18 on:** May 16, 2014, 02:27:29 PM »

Quote from: Andrew on May 15, 2014, 10:12:44 PM

Pervious poster mentioned that it was just a new set of tools, But I must add and the knowledge of how the newer systems work.
Points & carbs are rather simple to understand, add computers and software into the mix and it becomes a bit more complex of a concept to grasp.

That's what I meant by "tools" in quotes. Younger folks working on machines aren't afraid of using a computer as opposed to turning a wrench. Those that are will be looking for a new career/hobby very shortly.

Andrew · « **Reply #19 on:** May 16, 2014, 06:47:35 PM »

I am with you on that one Cablebandit, I got lucky and was instructed on the theory and working of the systems (not on each one but more on how they worked and what they needed to know and how all the sensors worked.... the theory and application) When I was in trade school for auto mechanics. The way stuff works is still the same just the tech is better and the engineering has vastly improved. My bet is if you brought an older car (pre-computer controlled.... think points & carb) to any mechanic that has not been in the business for more than 10 years he/she would not have a clue where to start.

Ya it is a new day and the machines run a lot better but I still have a soft spot for a Kawasaki triple or an RD (PS I still have an old ford that has points & a card not to mention a manual trans with non hyd clutch)