Author Topic: Chain questions... (Read 15083 times)

SWriverstone · « **on:** April 21, 2014, 01:44:23 PM »

Hi all—due to a combination of neglect and me commuting all winter long (including countless days where the streets were covered in slush, grit, salt, pea gravel, and sand) my chain is shot after something ridiculous like only 4 or 5K miles. So I've got to get it replaced—and my question is, do I REALLY need to change my sprockets too? The shops always cite "The Chain Rule" ("Always change the sprockets with the chain, yada yada") as if it were etched in stone---and as if a chain "imprints" on a particular set of sprockets and won't work with any others. I suspect this is BS, but just want to confirm that it's BS.

Here's what my sprocket looks like now:

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ALSO: For years I've been hearing about these master links on chains that make it pretty quick and easy to take the chain off for cleaning—i'm talking about the ones with the removable side plate and clip that holds it on. But every time I've had a shop replace my chain, they never use one of these. Does anybody use these? Are they dangerous? (Or does the shop just not like to use them because it makes it easier for people to service their chains and therefore not have to buy new ones as often??)

Thanks,
Scott

chornbe · « **Reply #1 on:** April 21, 2014, 01:50:58 PM »

They are not dangerous, and require only a bit more eyes-on during normal, routine chain inspection. I have seen ones where the clip has rusted and broken... but again, the overall chain condition was neglected and awful. Even so, the links don't just fly apart; they're still pressed on. Rather than mushrooming the posts, you install the clip. To remove/install those links properly, you still need a chain press. The advantage is, as you noted, reusability.

As for the sprockets, you just have to check out the teeth and see if they fit the wear conditions.

This is a decent enough write up: http://www.canyonchasers.net/shop/generic/chain.php

In short, the sprocket teeth shouldn't be hooked or pointy, and the chain shouldn't rock around in the roller pockets.

Papa Lazarou · « **Reply #2 on:** April 21, 2014, 02:12:17 PM »

The teeth on your sprockets are by no means dangerous but they are quite badly worn. Replace with the chain, or lose half the life of your chain.

Remember that the chain is the expensive part-sprockets are cheap. As a rule of thumb, replace both together.

Downs · « **Reply #3 on:** April 21, 2014, 03:30:42 PM »

Those sprocket teeth are starting to get hooked. I'd swap it out with the new chain.

chornbe · « **Reply #4 on:** April 21, 2014, 03:32:22 PM »

Hmm... the picture didn't resolve the first time I looked at this thread.

Yeah, do the sprocket(s). Cheap insurance.

SWriverstone · « **Reply #5 on:** April 21, 2014, 06:01:57 PM »

Okay---I'm clearly clueless when it comes to evaluating sprockets. LOL But I defer to the wisdom of the collective. (And I do remember sprockets not being expensive.)

Though I did neglect my chain...it's not like I never cleaned it. I just didn't clean it when it was 30 degrees (or colder) in the garage. Which was like all winter.

Even so, I'm amazed that the thing could be so hosed after just 4-5K miles. When I put the rear up and rotate the rear wheel, the chain is WAY out of whack in terms of loose and tight spots---like in one position there is NO slack...and halfway around there is about 2 inches of slack.

I'm guessing riding 2-up doesn't help chain life (though I'm not sure how much faster that wrecks it?).

Regardless, I've definitely reached a stage in my motorcycling life where I say "EFF CHAINS!!!"

My next bike is definitely going to be a shaft drive---I couldn't care less how much HP I lose from the added weight.

Scott

Scratch · « **Reply #6 on:** April 21, 2014, 06:10:12 PM »

Quote from: SWriverstone on April 21, 2014, 06:01:57 PM

My next bike is definitely going to be a shaft drive

What could possibly go wrong?

kneescrubber · « **Reply #7 on:** April 21, 2014, 06:19:06 PM »

Quote from: Scratch on April 21, 2014, 06:10:12 PM

Quote from: SWriverstone on April 21, 2014, 06:01:57 PM
My next bike is definitely going to be a shaft drive

What could possibly go wrong?

I have no earthly idea.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Downs · « **Reply #8 on:** April 21, 2014, 06:40:02 PM »

Quote from: SWriverstone on April 21, 2014, 06:01:57 PM

Okay---I'm clearly clueless when it comes to evaluating sprockets. LOL But I defer to the wisdom of the collective. (And I do remember sprockets not being expensive.)

Though I did neglect my chain...it's not like I never cleaned it. I just didn't clean it when it was 30 degrees (or colder) in the garage. Which was like all winter.

Even so, I'm amazed that the thing could be so hosed after just 4-5K miles. When I put the rear up and rotate the rear wheel, the chain is WAY out of whack in terms of loose and tight spots---like in one position there is NO slack...and halfway around there is about 2 inches of slack.

I'm guessing riding 2-up doesn't help chain life (though I'm not sure how much faster that wrecks it?).

Regardless, I've definitely reached a stage in my motorcycling life where I say "EFF CHAINS!!!" My next bike is definitely going to be a shaft drive---I couldn't care less how much HP I lose from the added weight.

Scott

They do have their drawbacks but IMO as long as you get a proven shaft drive bike they're good to go. I've never had any issue from a Japanese shafty but the BMWs have their own issues with "recent" Beemers.

Also the only shaft options out there now days for the most part are the big bore bikes like the FJR, C14, ect. If they came out with a 650 V-STrom with shaft drive I'd be there tomorrow to trade mine in and get a new one.

I'm not a fan of chain drive I just happen to be a fan of bikes that are mostly only avaliable with chain drive.

"Back in the day" you could easily get anything from a 450 to a 1000cc bike with shaft drive as an option. Not so anymore.

Also how tight were yourunning the chain during it's service life? I run on the loose end of the factory specs or sometimes a bit looser. That will eat a chain up quick when you are running it tight all the time.

I've had a few shaft drive bikes and loved them. Never had any issues with them and they just ran and ran and ran.

PatM · « **Reply #9 on:** April 21, 2014, 06:42:56 PM »

Quote from: kneescrubber on April 21, 2014, 06:19:06 PM

Quote from: Scratch on April 21, 2014, 06:10:12 PM
Quote from: SWriverstone on April 21, 2014, 06:01:57 PM
My next bike is definitely going to be a shaft drive

What could possibly go wrong?

I have no earthly idea.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Final drives never fail...

...except when they fail. Their reliability is however way better than unmaintained chains.

kneescrubber · « **Reply #10 on:** April 21, 2014, 06:48:41 PM »

Quote from: PatM on April 21, 2014, 06:42:56 PM

Quote from: kneescrubber on April 21, 2014, 06:19:06 PM
Quote from: Scratch on April 21, 2014, 06:10:12 PM
Quote from: SWriverstone on April 21, 2014, 06:01:57 PM
My next bike is definitely going to be a shaft drive

What could possibly go wrong?

I have no earthly idea.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Final drives never fail...

...except when they fail. Their reliability is however way better than unmaintained chains.

It didn't. Look closer.

PatM · « **Reply #11 on:** April 21, 2014, 06:53:20 PM »

Quote from: kneescrubber on April 21, 2014, 06:48:41 PM

Quote from: PatM on April 21, 2014, 06:42:56 PM
Quote from: kneescrubber on April 21, 2014, 06:19:06 PM
Quote from: Scratch on April 21, 2014, 06:10:12 PM
Quote from: SWriverstone on April 21, 2014, 06:01:57 PM
My next bike is definitely going to be a shaft drive

What could possibly go wrong?

I have no earthly idea.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Final drives never fail...

...except when they fail. Their reliability is however way better than unmaintained chains.

It didn't. Look closer.

This is not exactly a brand new bike. It must have a few more mile on the odo than the 5K the PO got on his chain.

SWriverstone · « **Reply #12 on:** April 21, 2014, 06:55:04 PM »

If I get a shaft-drive bike it'll be a C14 or (if I can talk the wife into it) one of these:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Scott

PS - I try to run my chains right at factory spec---not too loose, not too tight. (With emphasis on "try.")

kneescrubber · « **Reply #13 on:** April 21, 2014, 08:22:53 PM »

Quote from: PatM on April 21, 2014, 06:53:20 PM

Quote from: kneescrubber on April 21, 2014, 06:48:41 PM
Quote from: PatM on April 21, 2014, 06:42:56 PM
Quote from: kneescrubber on April 21, 2014, 06:19:06 PM
Quote from: Scratch on April 21, 2014, 06:10:12 PM
Quote from: SWriverstone on April 21, 2014, 06:01:57 PM
My next bike is definitely going to be a shaft drive

What could possibly go wrong?

I have no earthly idea.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Final drives never fail...

...except when they fail. Their reliability is however way better than unmaintained chains.

It didn't. Look closer.

This is not exactly a brand new bike. It must have a few more mile on the odo than the 5K the PO got on his chain.

IIRC about 8 years old and about 70K miles. And still; not a final drive failure.

My point is; abuse is abuse. The pic I posted was from abuse. The OP's original question is also the result of abuse. That's all I'm saying.

M.Brane · « **Reply #14 on:** April 21, 2014, 08:52:28 PM »

Never, ever, clean your chain with anything other than a rag soaked with some mild cleaner. Spraying your chain with anything other than lubricant ( hint: WD40 is NOT a lubricant ) or soaking it in kerosine ( really? ) will accelerate it's demise.

In reality you don't really need to lube an O-ring chain, but it will help the rollers, sprockets, and O-rings to live a bit longer than without.

That said I'll take a chain over shaft any day. I can tell the condition of my chain drive with a quick glance, and it's much cheaper/easier to replace. It's also lighter, and robs less HP from the engine.

PatM · « **Reply #15 on:** April 21, 2014, 09:46:48 PM »

Quote from: kneescrubber on April 21, 2014, 08:22:53 PM

Quote from: PatM on April 21, 2014, 06:53:20 PM
Quote from: kneescrubber on April 21, 2014, 06:48:41 PM
Quote from: PatM on April 21, 2014, 06:42:56 PM
Quote from: kneescrubber on April 21, 2014, 06:19:06 PM
Quote from: Scratch on April 21, 2014, 06:10:12 PM
Quote from: SWriverstone on April 21, 2014, 06:01:57 PM
My next bike is definitely going to be a shaft drive

What could possibly go wrong?

I have no earthly idea.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Final drives never fail...

...except when they fail. Their reliability is however way better than unmaintained chains.

It didn't. Look closer.

This is not exactly a brand new bike. It must have a few more mile on the odo than the 5K the PO got on his chain.

IIRC about 8 years old and about 70K miles. And still; not a final drive failure.

My point is; abuse is abuse. The pic I posted was from abuse. The OP's original question is also the result of abuse. That's all I'm saying.

I understand your point but you didn't get mine either. Final drives may fail sometimes but chains will fail a lot faster if neglected.
Do most final drives fail due to abuse? I don't know but the three guys I know who had final drive failure, one LT (twice), one RT and one K12GT weren't abusers.

Scratch · « **Reply #16 on:** April 22, 2014, 08:27:14 AM »

F'n FD's.

chornbe · « **Reply #17 on:** April 22, 2014, 08:58:10 AM »

Quote from: SWriverstone on April 21, 2014, 06:01:57 PM

Okay---I'm clearly clueless when it comes to evaluating sprockets. LOL But I defer to the wisdom of the collective. (And I do remember sprockets not being expensive.)

Though I did neglect my chain...it's not like I never cleaned it. I just didn't clean it when it was 30 degrees (or colder) in the garage. Which was like all winter.

Even so, I'm amazed that the thing could be so hosed after just 4-5K miles. When I put the rear up and rotate the rear wheel, the chain is WAY out of whack in terms of loose and tight spots---like in one position there is NO slack...and halfway around there is about 2 inches of slack.

I'm guessing riding 2-up doesn't help chain life (though I'm not sure how much faster that wrecks it?).

Regardless, I've definitely reached a stage in my motorcycling life where I say "EFF CHAINS!!!" My next bike is definitely going to be a shaft drive---I couldn't care less how much HP I lose from the added weight.

Scott

You won't hear me judging.

1) I hate - ABHOR - chain maintenance, especially during a trip.
2) I prefer a shaft drive.
3) I hate - ABHOR - chain maintenance, especially in winter, wet weather or any time I have to do chain maintenance.
4) Screw chains.

chornbe · « **Reply #18 on:** April 22, 2014, 09:00:44 AM »

Quote from: Downs on April 21, 2014, 06:40:02 PM

Also the only shaft options out there now days for the most part are the big bore bikes like the FJR, C14, ect.

That's because of all the bullshit and ill-informed whining by people who don't know how to ride a motorcycle about "those damned power robbing shaft drives."

Yeah, they *really* take 30% of your engine's power.

I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks that pretty much any modern motorcycle doesn't have "enough power" is kind of an asshole or an adrenaline junkie.

Note: Yes, of course everyone enjoys more power whenever possible, but need...? Nope. Learn how to ride.

chornbe · « **Reply #19 on:** April 22, 2014, 09:04:30 AM »

Quote from: M.Brane on April 21, 2014, 08:52:28 PM

Never, ever, clean your chain with anything other than a rag soaked with some mild cleaner. Spraying your chain with anything other than lubricant ( hint: WD40 is NOT a lubricant ) or soaking it in kerosine ( really? ) will accelerate it's demise.

+1

Simple Green (or other appropriate cleaner) to clean

Proper chain lube (pick your fave from a plethora) to lube.

As noted, WD-40 is not a lubricant, not is it strictly a cleaner, though it has *some* properties of both.

Max Wedge · « **Reply #20 on:** April 22, 2014, 10:39:47 AM »

Quote from: chornbe on April 22, 2014, 09:00:44 AM

Quote from: Downs on April 21, 2014, 06:40:02 PM

Also the only shaft options out there now days for the most part are the big bore bikes like the FJR, C14, ect.

That's because of all the bullshit and ill-informed whining by people who don't know how to ride a motorcycle about "those damned power robbing shaft drives." Yeah, they *really* take 30% of your engine's power.

I'm sorry, but anyone who thinks that pretty much any modern motorcycle doesn't have "enough power" is kind of an asshole or an adrenaline junkie.

Note: Yes, of course everyone enjoys more power whenever possible, but need...? Nope. Learn how to ride.

So where are all our toothed belts? (Besides the F800 BMW)

chornbe · « **Reply #21 on:** April 22, 2014, 10:44:21 AM »

Quote from: Max Wedge on April 22, 2014, 10:39:47 AM

So where are all out toothed belts? (Besides the F800 BMW)

I have no idea why they aren't more popular on anything but full on sport bikes. Harley seems to have zero trouble with 80+ ft-lb torque monsters. BMW seems to have zero issues on the F800s. Some of Suzuki's and Kawasaki's cruisers use them just fine (or at least used to). I don't get it. I think for non-RR bikes, they're a superb option over chains.

$.02

CLAY · « **Reply #22 on:** April 22, 2014, 11:27:56 AM »

I can see some chains over belts just because people like me like to play with the ratios. I've never had a bike just stock- I nearly always swap sprockets to find the sweet spot for me.

In fact, the '75 I just restored has a stock setup on it right now- and I think I am going to go with a +2 on the back to make pulling away easier.

redbandit14 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 07, 2014, 02:10:52 PM »

Quote from: chornbe on April 22, 2014, 09:04:30 AM

Quote from: M.Brane on April 21, 2014, 08:52:28 PM
Never, ever, clean your chain with anything other than a rag soaked with some mild cleaner. Spraying your chain with anything other than lubricant ( hint: WD40 is NOT a lubricant ) or soaking it in kerosine ( really? ) will accelerate it's demise.

+1

Simple Green (or other appropriate cleaner) to clean

Proper chain lube (pick your fave from a plethora) to lube.

As noted, WD-40 is not a lubricant, not is it strictly a cleaner, though it has *some* properties of both.

meh , I've never used anything but kerosene and I've never had unusually short chain life.

And for some reason I LOVE chain maintenance not as much on trips of course

but it just seems to keep me focused.

Dan K · « **Reply #24 on:** May 07, 2014, 02:17:35 PM »

I actually bought a can of kerosene. Have yet to use it - every time I've pulled into the garage, I've been in a hurry, and by the time I'm free the chain is cooled down. Supposed to do it with a warm chain fresh off a ride, right?

Why is that, by the way? The rings/seals are expanded from warmth, so less of a chance of leakage or penetration by the cleaner or lube?

-Dan

kneescrubber · « **Reply #25 on:** May 07, 2014, 05:49:47 PM »

Quote from: Dan K on May 07, 2014, 02:17:35 PM

I actually bought a can of kerosene. Have yet to use it - every time I've pulled into the garage, I've been in a hurry, and by the time I'm free the chain is cooled down. Supposed to do it with a warm chain fresh off a ride, right?

Why is that, by the way? The rings/seals are expanded from warmth, so less of a chance of leakage or penetration by the cleaner or lube?

-Dan

Not sure where you got that. I have a 5 gallon can of kerosine and harbor freight parts washer for chain cleaning and parts washing. I don't recall ever warming up the chain before cleaning it.

Wesley · « **Reply #26 on:** May 08, 2014, 08:45:12 AM »

Quote from: redbandit14 on May 07, 2014, 02:10:52 PM

Quote from: chornbe on April 22, 2014, 09:04:30 AM
Quote from: M.Brane on April 21, 2014, 08:52:28 PM
Never, ever, clean your chain with anything other than a rag soaked with some mild cleaner. Spraying your chain with anything other than lubricant ( hint: WD40 is NOT a lubricant ) or soaking it in kerosine ( really? ) will accelerate it's demise.

+1

Simple Green (or other appropriate cleaner) to clean

Proper chain lube (pick your fave from a plethora) to lube.

As noted, WD-40 is not a lubricant, not is it strictly a cleaner, though it has *some* properties of both.
meh , I've never used anything but kerosene and I've never had unusually short chain life.

And for some reason I LOVE chain maintenance not as much on trips of course but it just seems to keep me focused.

My results are similar to redbandit14's. I soak my chain in kerosene for a good, deep cleaning each spring, and use chain lube/wax as needed througout the year. I got 20k+ miles out of my last chain--granted, I'm not abusive on my motorcycle and most of those were commuting miles.

Warming up a chain is only be necessary for applying chain lube or chain wax.

coucours grad · « **Reply #27 on:** May 08, 2014, 10:57:57 AM »

Quote from: chornbe on April 22, 2014, 08:58:10 AM

Quote from: SWriverstone on April 21, 2014, 06:01:57 PM
Okay---I'm clearly clueless when it comes to evaluating sprockets. LOL But I defer to the wisdom of the collective. (And I do remember sprockets not being expensive.)

Though I did neglect my chain...it's not like I never cleaned it. I just didn't clean it when it was 30 degrees (or colder) in the garage. Which was like all winter.

Even so, I'm amazed that the thing could be so hosed after just 4-5K miles. When I put the rear up and rotate the rear wheel, the chain is WAY out of whack in terms of loose and tight spots---like in one position there is NO slack...and halfway around there is about 2 inches of slack.

I'm guessing riding 2-up doesn't help chain life (though I'm not sure how much faster that wrecks it?).

Regardless, I've definitely reached a stage in my motorcycling life where I say "EFF CHAINS!!!" My next bike is definitely going to be a shaft drive---I couldn't care less how much HP I lose from the added weight.

Scott

You won't hear me judging.

1) I hate - ABHOR - chain maintenance, especially during a trip.
2) I prefer a shaft drive.
3) I hate - ABHOR - chain maintenance, especially in winter, wet weather or any time I have to do chain maintenance.
4) Screw chains.

Shaft driven, water cooled and multi cylinder....Everything else just wastes perfectly good riding time.

Dan K · « **Reply #28 on:** May 08, 2014, 12:59:38 PM »

Quote from: Wesley on May 08, 2014, 08:45:12 AM

Quote from: redbandit14 on May 07, 2014, 02:10:52 PM
Quote from: chornbe on April 22, 2014, 09:04:30 AM
Quote from: M.Brane on April 21, 2014, 08:52:28 PM
Never, ever, clean your chain with anything other than a rag soaked with some mild cleaner. Spraying your chain with anything other than lubricant ( hint: WD40 is NOT a lubricant ) or soaking it in kerosine ( really? ) will accelerate it's demise.

+1

Simple Green (or other appropriate cleaner) to clean

Proper chain lube (pick your fave from a plethora) to lube.

As noted, WD-40 is not a lubricant, not is it strictly a cleaner, though it has *some* properties of both.
meh , I've never used anything but kerosene and I've never had unusually short chain life.

And for some reason I LOVE chain maintenance not as much on trips of course but it just seems to keep me focused.

My results are similar to redbandit14's. I soak my chain in kerosene for a good, deep cleaning each spring, and use chain lube/wax as needed througout the year. I got 20k+ miles out of my last chain--granted, I'm not abusive on my motorcycle and most of those were commuting miles.

Warming up a chain is only be necessary for applying chain lube or chain wax.

Got it. So I can use the Kerosene (just a gallon can) to clean the chain, cold or not. Sometimes I just take some motor oil in a shop rag and with the back wheel lifted I just spin the wheel by hand and wipe the chain with the rag. I'll likely do that after the kerosene, then after another few hundred miles I'll just hit it with some spray lube.

Cookie · « **Reply #29 on:** May 08, 2014, 05:18:29 PM »

Clean? Chain? Uh oh.

Sent from the Moto X. A wicked awesome phone.

M.Brane · « **Reply #30 on:** May 08, 2014, 11:04:03 PM »

Quote from: Dan K on May 08, 2014, 12:59:38 PM

Quote from: Wesley on May 08, 2014, 08:45:12 AM
Quote from: redbandit14 on May 07, 2014, 02:10:52 PM
Quote from: chornbe on April 22, 2014, 09:04:30 AM
Quote from: M.Brane on April 21, 2014, 08:52:28 PM
Never, ever, clean your chain with anything other than a rag soaked with some mild cleaner. Spraying your chain with anything other than lubricant ( hint: WD40 is NOT a lubricant ) or soaking it in kerosine ( really? ) will accelerate it's demise.

+1

Simple Green (or other appropriate cleaner) to clean

Proper chain lube (pick your fave from a plethora) to lube.

As noted, WD-40 is not a lubricant, not is it strictly a cleaner, though it has *some* properties of both.
meh , I've never used anything but kerosene and I've never had unusually short chain life.

And for some reason I LOVE chain maintenance not as much on trips of course but it just seems to keep me focused.

My results are similar to redbandit14's. I soak my chain in kerosene for a good, deep cleaning each spring, and use chain lube/wax as needed througout the year. I got 20k+ miles out of my last chain--granted, I'm not abusive on my motorcycle and most of those were commuting miles.

Warming up a chain is only be necessary for applying chain lube or chain wax.

Got it. So I can use the Kerosene (just a gallon can) to clean the chain, cold or not. Sometimes I just take some motor oil in a shop rag and with the back wheel lifted I just spin the wheel by hand and wipe the chain with the rag. I'll likely do that after the kerosene, then after another few hundred miles I'll just hit it with some spray lube.

Nearly 40K out of my last chain & sprockets. The only reason I changed it was the hooked front. The chain itself, and the rear sprocket had life left.. Continue soaking in kerosine if you wish.

mugwump · « **Reply #31 on:** May 09, 2014, 04:39:30 AM »

I've had good results with kerosene as a cleaning agent using this http://www.webbikeworld.com/r3/kettenmax-chain-cleaner/. My commuter would do 400 miles a week with a weekly cleaning ect.... aprox 15K a year and a chain would last all season probably more but maintenance is the reason we have winter.

That said I do have one bike with a shaft and wouldn't mind one with a belt either. Cleaning a chain isn't one of the reasons I like to ride.

The only chain I've soaked in kero is a non "O" ring chain before waxing, when my knees were good enough to ride a bicycle

redbandit14 · « **Reply #32 on:** June 11, 2014, 11:38:16 AM »

Quote from: M.Brane on May 08, 2014, 11:04:03 PM

Nearly 40K out of my last chain & sprockets. The only reason I changed it was the hooked front. The chain itself, and the rear sprocket had life left.. Continue soaking in kerosine if you wish.

Ok maybe I have had unusually short chain life then.... 40K Miles is impressive. I usually get around 40k Km's and consider that normal.

One thing i just noticed is you said never soak your chain in Kerosene , I've never actually done that i clean it on the bike with a soft brush. Maybe that 's what you meant ?

Anyway I may have to think about this chain cleaning thing.

viffergyrl · « **Reply #33 on:** June 11, 2014, 03:02:04 PM »

Quote from: redbandit14 on June 11, 2014, 11:38:16 AM

Quote from: M.Brane on May 08, 2014, 11:04:03 PM

Nearly 40K out of my last chain & sprockets. The only reason I changed it was the hooked front. The chain itself, and the rear sprocket had life left.. Continue soaking in kerosine if you wish.
Ok maybe I have had unusually short chain life then.... 40K Miles is impressive. I usually get around 40k Km's and consider that normal.

One thing i just noticed is you said never soak your chain in Kerosene , I've never actually done that i clean it on the bike with a soft brush. Maybe that 's what you meant ?

Anyway I may have to think about this chain cleaning thing.

M.Brane may chime in later, but nothing touches our chains except the lube - no kerosene, no brushes, no rags.... Brushes just work the dirt into the O-rings. Just let the lube do its thing. We are keeping data on how long our chains last but you all may have to wait a while.... we have three bikes in the ride rotation.

Black Hills · « **Reply #34 on:** June 11, 2014, 03:13:50 PM »

my chains seem to last 10-15k no matter what I do? I have tried all types of lube from wax to no fling sticky crap to bell rays (?) new "clean lube" but finally settled on exactly what the manufacturers all recommend, 80/90 gear oil. bought a pump oil can and plugged the end with a big nylon washer and nut, then drill two holed in the tub to allow the oil to run out right on the top of each side plate. works well.

M.Brane · « **Reply #35 on:** June 12, 2014, 12:51:48 AM »

Quote from: Black Hills on June 11, 2014, 03:13:50 PM

my chains seem to last 10-15k no matter what I do? I have tried all types of lube from wax to no fling sticky crap to bell rays (?) new "clean lube" but finally settled on exactly what the manufacturers all recommend, 80/90 gear oil. bought a pump oil can and plugged the end with a big nylon washer and nut, then drill two holed in the tub to allow the oil to run out right on the top of each side plate. works well.

This is what I've been using. Tried the chain saver stuff, but it's too messy IMHO. Still cleaner than gear oil, but gear oil is a good chain lube if you don't mind the fling.

Quote from: viffergyrl on June 11, 2014, 03:02:04 PM

no rags....

Actually I do clean chains occasionally with a WD40 soaked rag, but that's to do a close inspection not to prolong life.

CLAY · « **Reply #36 on:** June 15, 2014, 09:17:40 PM »

I use a pro-oiler on my B12:
http://www.pro-oiler.net/
The thing is awesome. I just fill the reservoir and call it good. I see he now has a GPS unit to read speed. Sweet!

redbandit14 · « **Reply #37 on:** June 20, 2014, 08:32:55 AM »

Not sure just how much to put into it but my factory service manual does say use Kerosene to clean the chain.

One thing when i said brush I'm talking a soft paint brush. If that's enough pressure to push dirt into the o-rings they are not very effective at all.

I still haven't cleaned mine though lol

bomber · « **Reply #38 on:** June 20, 2014, 03:22:39 PM »

kerosene works well . . . . . . .

IO just can't bring myself to have to stock yet ANOTHER single use chemical in the Entropy Lab . . . . .

Now, if I had one of those Diesel KLRs . . . . .

redbandit14 · « **Reply #39 on:** August 07, 2014, 09:29:45 PM »

So the current chain and sprockets are done. Maybe I cleaned it too much maybe not enough.

i have no idea. But I do have a new chain and sprockets to go on the bike.

And a question. can i cut the old chain with a hacksaw?

I have a grinder and would use it but i have to go to a friends distant garage to use it.

I have time tomorrow and Sunday to put the new chain on but really only if i can do it quickly at home.

A hacksaw is no problem but I can't use the grinder (no power available never mind the noise

)

Any thoughts? I suspect the chain is a little to tough to cut but I'd really like to get this done ASAP

Cookie · « **Reply #40 on:** August 08, 2014, 04:49:47 AM »

The same tool used to press the pin in is used to press the pin out.

Max Wedge · « **Reply #41 on:** August 08, 2014, 06:53:09 AM »

Hacksaw doesn't sound like any fun. I have just ground off (with a dremel) the end of a pin and pushed it through, doesn't take much. If power is an issue, maybe a grinding bit in a cordless drill?

sleazy rider · « **Reply #42 on:** August 08, 2014, 07:03:20 AM »

Die grinder to remove ends of pins, push them thru with a breaker tool or a drift and hammer (harder). You'll still need a chain riveter to press the new plate on and peen the rivets for the new chain unless it's a dirt bike with a pin clip. If so, make sure the clip is installed in the right direction. Open end to the rear when it's on the top side of the sprockets so it's not able to be popped off by something hitting it while riding.

Have you checked your sprockets for wear? I just did a tire for a customer and his sprocket was roached. I'm talking nubs for teeth. He knew it and ordered a new sprocket kit while he was here picking up the freshened wheel.

redbandit14 · « **Reply #43 on:** August 08, 2014, 08:48:51 AM »

Yes power is an issue . Cordless might work but mine is pretty slow speed .

I have a borrowed chain riveter but don't believe it's strong enough to break a 530 chain and as it's borrowed i don't want to find out the hard way it's not strong enough.

It's a master link chain no clips. It's for a bandit 1200 and i wouldn't trust a clip.

i'll have to wait until one night after work next week i think . letting my impatience get the better of me is a bad idea .

Black Hills · « **Reply #44 on:** August 08, 2014, 09:28:08 AM »

I have a motion pro riveter/breaker. it breaks 530 chain with no grinding/ cutting, just push out any given pin and your done.

kneescrubber · « **Reply #45 on:** August 08, 2014, 09:53:01 AM »

Quote from: Black Hills on August 08, 2014, 09:28:08 AM

I have a motion pro riveter/breaker. it breaks 530 chain with no grinding/ cutting, just push out any given pin and your done.

+1

ChrisFZ1 · « **Reply #46 on:** August 08, 2014, 12:26:10 PM »

I have a Motion Pro breaker and riveter too. Breaks the stock chain no problem. With a high quality aftermarket chain I highly recommend grinding the pin down to the link first. It's good for tool longetivity.

chornbe · « **Reply #47 on:** August 08, 2014, 04:23:25 PM »

Chain breaker? Uhm... Grinder. Or long screw driver if it's a clip style. Y'all work too hard.

Mr. Whippy · « **Reply #48 on:** August 09, 2014, 12:07:27 PM »

Quote from: chornbe on August 08, 2014, 04:23:25 PM

Chain breaker? Uhm... Grinder. Or long screw driver if it's a clip style. Y'all work too hard.

Yup. Grind the plate flush (ie the rivet heads off) then pry the plate off. I bought one of those combo deals and only use the riveter part of it.

kneescrubber · « **Reply #49 on:** August 09, 2014, 09:48:49 PM »

Quote from: Mr. Whippy on August 09, 2014, 12:07:27 PM

Quote from: chornbe on August 08, 2014, 04:23:25 PM
Chain breaker? Uhm... Grinder. Or long screw driver if it's a clip style. Y'all work too hard.

Yup. Grind the plate flush (ie the rivet heads off) then pry the plate off. I bought one of those combo deals and only use the riveter part of it.

I'm not sure why y'all would spend the time grinding when a quality chain breaker will do the job.