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Offline Rincewind

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Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« on: March 19, 2014, 11:48:20 AM »
What bike would you recommend that fits most/many of these criteria?  It doesn't have to be a particular class of bike or particular size. 

1. True 50+mpg. 

2. Low to very-low insurance.  Cruiser-class could be considered.

3. Low service costs with simple self-servicing and/or hydraulic valve or screw-adjustment valves.  This is one of the most important criteria. 

4. Low repair/parts costs. 

5. High reliability. 

6. Low depreciation - a used model would help most there.

7. Budget price of $5k to $8k.  Used would be fine/preferred.

8. Doesn't scrape hard parts through every turn and can handle mildy aggressive riding.  Should be able to maintain highway speeds up to at least 85mph.  Ability to do the ton preferred.

9. Does not have a super short fuel range - can handle 4-5 day touring with 400-500 mile days, but doesn't have to be a super-recliner either

10. Can handle minimal 2-up riding, but not necessarily touring 2-up.

11. Reasonable weight, say less than 550lbs

12. ABS is nice to have but not a deal breaker.  Disc brakes preferred.

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2014, 11:49:39 AM »
WeeStrom

Offline Rincewind

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2014, 11:55:42 AM »
WeeStrom

The benchmark for my comparison is my Tiger 800.  I don't think the 650 Strom would be much, if any, less in terms of insurance.  The service costs would be slightly less but Stroms can require valve shim swaps every 14,000 miles, which could get costly as I'm not skilled enough to do them (yet).  I have read that it can be a frustrating process.  For comparison, my recent quotes for my Tiger 800 12k service with valve check were $800-$900.

Not a bad suggestion, though, and better than some of the options I've thought about.

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2014, 12:00:03 PM »
The valves on the 650 are easy to do.  I did mine (first time in the valve train) and it was only a couple hours start to finish taking my time.  None needed to be changed but I pulled the cams just to see what was involved.  Essentially just a few more bolts.   ;)

Offline chornbe

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2014, 12:02:04 PM »
What bike would you recommend that fits most/many of these criteria?  It doesn't have to be a particular class of bike or particular size. 

1. True 50+mpg. 

2. Low to very-low insurance.  Cruiser-class could be considered.

3. Low service costs with simple self-servicing and/or hydraulic valve or screw-adjustment valves.  This is one of the most important criteria. 

4. Low repair/parts costs. 

5. High reliability. 

6. Low depreciation - a used model would help most there.

7. Budget price of $5k to $8k.  Used would be fine/preferred.
...

Sportster, then replace the rear shocks (if it's an L model) with the Roadster shocks and get almost 2" of additional lift for cornering.

$.02
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Offline Rincewind

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2014, 12:08:42 PM »
Sportster, then replace the rear shocks (if it's an L model) with the Roadster shocks and get almost 2" of additional lift for cornering.

$.02

Sportster is definitely a consideration as I used to ride my dad's a lot in the early 90's.  Cheap insurance, low service cost, high mpg, low depreciation.  They even have ABS optional on the new ones - hard to believe.  Do you think the benefits of the Sportie are shared by its metric cousins like the Shadow 750? 

Buells crossed my mind, too, though every insurance quote I've ever gotten on one has turned my stomach and I'm unsure about reliability.

Guzzi V7 or older Guzzi model is still on the list, too.  Honda NC700X (used) is there, too.

Offline Mr. Whippy

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2014, 12:12:48 PM »
Burgman 650.  It ticks all the points.

If you get an Exec version, the mirrors have electronic folding too.

Offline chornbe

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2014, 12:14:38 PM »
Sportster, then replace the rear shocks (if it's an L model) with the Roadster shocks and get almost 2" of additional lift for cornering.

$.02

Sportster is definitely a consideration as I used to ride my dad's a lot in the early 90's.  Cheap insurance, low service cost, high mpg, low depreciation.  They even have ABS optional on the new ones - hard to believe.  Do you think the benefits of the Sportie are shared by its metric cousins like the Shadow 750? 

Buells crossed my mind, too, though every insurance quote I've ever gotten on one has turned my stomach and I'm unsure about reliability.

Guzzi V7 or older Guzzi model is still on the list, too.  Honda NC700X (used) is there, too.

The Guzzi V7 is a good choice. Very enjoyable bike.

I especially like the Shadow RS, if you're looking at the 750s. It's their analog to the Sportster, and they did a fantastic job with it.

IMO, the minute you factor in depreciation as a concern, every other choice falls by the wayside of the Sportster, given the rest of your list. The cost of ownership on them is stupid low, and I find them very, very enjoyable to ride.
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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2014, 12:17:33 PM »
nc700x
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Offline cultureslayer

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2014, 12:22:25 PM »
Ninja 250 or 500.  :P
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Offline chornbe

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2014, 12:25:15 PM »
The Burgie's a good choice, and considerably more fun than you might think. The 650 can be a little lumbering in the low speed stuff until you get comfy just dragging the rear brake (by hand, not foot). It's incredibly comfortable, certainly more than powerful enough, and leans with more gusto than you'd think. I bought Whippy's old one (via JamminJere) and took that to places, on roads, and into corners at speeds that I'm sure the normal audience for that bike would consider all sorts of wrong and stupid.

Considering you're factoring in maintenance costs and depreciation, it's also a really good choice. Tires are cheap, oil changes are cheap, valve checks are easy. Comes standard with ABS and can be had for a (relative) song and at this point, the used market for them has stabilized; you won't lose much on resale in a reasonable time frame.

Mine is being held hostage by the *&@0*&@$)78 who refuses to give it back to me, and the court won't do a damned &*@#$&)*#@ING thing about it. I could REALLY use that thing right now... :\
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Offline Rincewind

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2014, 12:28:39 PM »

Offline Rincewind

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2014, 12:29:46 PM »
The Guzzi V7 is a good choice. Very enjoyable bike.

I especially like the Shadow RS, if you're looking at the 750s. It's their analog to the Sportster, and they did a fantastic job with it.

IMO, the minute you factor in depreciation as a concern, every other choice falls by the wayside of the Sportster, given the rest of your list. The cost of ownership on them is stupid low, and I find them very, very enjoyable to ride.

Depreciation is a concern but it's not the #1 concern either as it is not "out of pocket" expense, per se.

The RS lists at $8240 today, and 2011 models are suggested retail $5345.  That is $965 lost per year - about what my Triumph has been losing, too.

Iron 883 lists $8399 today, and 2011 models are suggested retail $6815.  That is $525 lost per year.

Offline chornbe

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2014, 12:38:32 PM »

Depreciation is a concern but it's not the #1 concern either as it is not "out of pocket" expense, per se.

The RS lists at $8240 today, and 2011 models are suggested retail $5345.  That is $965 lost per year - about what my Triumph has been losing, too.

Iron 883 lists $8399 today, and 2011 models are suggested retail $6815.  That is $525 lost per year.

Yep, there's certain cache in the HD name, love it or hate it. I believe that with their worldwide network, the ridiculously over-grown aftermarket for them, and the simplicity of ownership and parts availability... if your goal is simply to ride a fun bike and own a good machine (and you're not looking for something specialized like track use or full dirt, etc.), then there are damned few better choices than a Harley.

I can say this as a former owner, and someone who put a shit ton of miles on two Harleys, and as someone who has done maintenance work on a whole bunch of them. I think my brother's '09 'Glide is closing in on 70,000 miles by this point. I've put tires on it, changed all the fluids, and I put a better clutch in it for him because he tows a trailer.
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Offline squeezer

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2014, 01:22:38 PM »
So, Rince, can I hijack your thread for a couple of posts? Are you thinking about giving up on the Tiger 800? I gave one just like yours a serious look last weekend and am still thinking that direction. What's your view now that you've been on it awhile?
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Offline I'm NOT Carl

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2014, 01:37:37 PM »
What bike would you recommend that fits most/many of these criteria?  It doesn't have to be a particular class of bike or particular size. 

1. True 50+mpg. 


Not sure what this means. I have registered 52mpg via miles and receipts but I also found my odometer was off by about 1% (I have 118,000 miles on the odometer but figuring in the difference and I'm running an actual 126,000 miles).

Quote
2. Low to very-low insurance.  Cruiser-class could be considered.


That's an individual thing and depends on your issues. I'm paying about $160 a year.

Quote
3. Low service costs with simple self-servicing and/or hydraulic valve or screw-adjustment valves.  This is one of the most important criteria. 


Well, I have the disks on mine but I've only had to have it serviced twice in over 100,000 miles so that works for me.

Quote
4. Low repair/parts costs. 


Dunno. My bike has only "broken" once enough to leave me on the side of the road and once I got her home, I replaced it with a few screws (regulator/rectifier I think it is).

Quote
5. High reliability. 


See above. :)

Quote
6. Low depreciation - a used model would help most there.


My bike seems to have a good resale value although I imagine at 100,000+ miles there aren't going to be many interested parties.

Quote
7. Budget price of $5k to $8k.  Used would be fine/preferred.


Well, I paid $8,200 for mine in 2004. You'll need to investigate your area for availability. I've noticed many of my model seem to get heavily blinged for some reason. :o

Quote
8. Doesn't scrape hard parts through every turn and can handle mildy aggressive riding.  Should be able to maintain highway speeds up to at least 85mph.  Ability to do the ton preferred.


Yea... no problem there :D

Quote
9. Does not have a super short fuel range - can handle 4-5 day touring with 400-500 mile days, but doesn't have to be a super-recliner either


It's a 5.5 Gallon tank but in reality it should be filled with 1 gallon left. I generally go between 175 and 215 miles between fillups when on the road.

I regularly do 750 mile days without a problem and have done an Iron Butt several times without much of a problem. The only real issue for me was the drying of my eyes as it got dark. I fixed that by buying a set of small goggles that fit correctly under my helmet.

Quote
10. Can handle minimal 2-up riding, but not necessarily touring 2-up.


I generally ride solo so can't speak too well on the 2-up part. I do carry a lot of gear when touring, sometimes a bit too much. So it seems to handle loads pretty well. And Jeanne's been riding with me that past couple of times without issue. We'll know for sure Saturday.

Quote
11. Reasonable weight, say less than 550lbs


Weight is up to 534 lbs dry.

Quote
12. ABS is nice to have but not a deal breaker.  Disc brakes preferred.


No ABS on the one I have. Can't speak to newer ones. Disc brakes front and rear (dual front, single rear).

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Offline Rincewind

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2014, 01:54:34 PM »
So, Rince, can I hijack your thread for a couple of posts? Are you thinking about giving up on the Tiger 800? I gave one just like yours a serious look last weekend and am still thinking that direction. What's your view now that you've been on it awhile?


I love it.  You should take a good look at one.  Sure is more fun than those Feejers.  ;)

1. The fuel economy is good while touring, and only ok during normal riding.  Stats - http://www.fuelly.com/driver/alexm11/tiger-t800

2. The power is a good amount and typical for a 750-800 mid-sized bike.  It has good mid-range thrust.  It doesn't have the "wow factor" in high revs like the Street Triple (or FJR, for that matter) but it's still entertaining.

3. I don't like the heat that comes off the engine and frame in very hot/humid conditions when riding in riding jeans.

4. I don't like that I have had the engine light twice now for a gear position sensor malfunction, but Triumph (as normal) is upholding their warranty and replacing it with a new revised one.  I found reference to this problem in quite a few places online, but it's not a huge issue either.  Warranty is out come June.

5. Handling is responsive and it's easy to have a good time in the corners, and a challenge to get a peg to ever touch macadam.

6. ABS has never been a problem and works as intended.  It is switchable to off, but my version of offroad is just gravel roads and it's not really necessary to turn it off.  Brakes are good - not as strong as the Street Triple, but the pads are lasting twice as long as the Street Triple R ones did, too.

7. I had some mild oil useage during break in but haven't noticed it as a problem recently.  It's not like my Tiger 1050 was - that one drank oil regularly.

8. I like that it comes with nice passenger handles and it's own rear rack.  I hate how so many bikes have just those passenger straps on the seat - what a joke.  The 2-part seat is nice and I like that they made it easily height adjustable from the factory.

9. Maintenance costs are what have me fuming a bit now.  I only have 11,xxx miles on it now.  The 6,000 mile service is not bad as done by the dealer with my own oil change - maybe $170 (?).  The 12,000 mile service is being quoted as around $850 or more with taxes, full service with a full day in the shop.  To me that is a lot of money.  I can do some of the service myself, but I'm not able/familiar to really tear into it.

10. Insurance is not terrible but not great either.  It's around $260/year with extra coverage.

Thanks for the Busa suggestion, Carl.  I honestly would never have thought of that one.  I expect the insurance would be more for me, but I don't really know w/o checking. 

I appreciate the suggestions.  I have some financial issues coming to a head that are making me closely examine my monthly budgets.  I figure with a cheaper bike I could save maybe $160-$180/month in costs. 

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2014, 02:09:44 PM »
Alex, in that case, I'm going with Cable's Weestrom suggestion. I guess I was considering this as a second bike, or maybe a bike for your wife. A lot of functional overlap with your Tiger, but as a replacement, It's a really nice option. You could even go for a Strom 1K, but the big difference there will be MPG. I was getting a consistent 38 on mine, but saw 41 once or twice. I'm a bit of a heavy wrist, though.

You're a tall guy; the Strom will accommodate you nicely. The weight is wonderful. You won't find a better bike with passenger room built in. The power delivery is very nice - lots of thrust in the midrange, but you already know that from the Gladius. The handling can be crisp and razor edged with a little tuning; good tires and keep the steering head bearings fresh, and you're golden. PR3s are available for it. That's a huge plus, IMO. Mine had Conti Trail Attacks on it, and I could get it over to scrape-angle at high speeds; there are good tires on the market to fit this. The bike is disgustingly solid and simple, and the FI works nicely. Valve checks are SOOOOOO much easier in the Strom than in the SV/Gladius due to the extra room around the back cylinder head. And honestly... if you get one >30,000 miles on it, it's unlikely you'll ever need an adjustment. Oil changes take all of about 10 minutes, and chain maintenance/adjustment is a snap on that bike the way the adjusters are.

I got 126K out of my Strom 1000 when it was retired with engine trouble. I bought it at... 107K? Something like that... with absolutely no reliable history on the bike, so I don't know if it was abused through its life, or that's typical mileage, or if mine went later than most. Just don't know... but it ran like a top - and was still running well - right up until it left my garage (lots of shiny metal bits in the oil).
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Offline Mr. Whippy

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2014, 02:10:56 PM »
Squeezer, (more hijack here):

I've got about 1000 miles on my Tiger 800.

Fuel mileage is NOT as good as the Multistrada (1000DS version).

It is smoother and more refined than the Ducati hands down.  The suspension absorbs rough roads much better.

The Multistrada is wickedly faster(quicker), especially if you keep the rpms up on the Ducati. 
The Multistrada is far more flickable, which is a little weird since they're similar weight wise--it may be because the Multistrada is so narrow.

Overall, I'm extremely pleased with the Tiger.  I'm now having second thoughts on whether I want to hunt down an engine for the Multistrada or not...

Offline Rincewind

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2014, 02:14:07 PM »

The Multistrada is far more flickable, which is a little weird since they're similar weight wise--it may be because the Multistrada is so narrow.

It may also be because of the 17" front wheel on the Ducati.  The 19" front on the Tiger takes a little more forethought, imo.

Offline Max Wedge

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2014, 02:15:21 PM »
Honda PC800 aka: Pacific Coast. The bike everyone wanted, but no one bought.
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Offline chornbe

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2014, 02:16:54 PM »
Honda PC800 aka: Pacific Coast. The bike everyone wanted, but no one bought.

I still want one.
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Offline Max Wedge

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2014, 02:17:35 PM »
Honda PC800 aka: Pacific Coast. The bike everyone wanted, but no one bought.

I still want one.

You and everyone else.
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Offline Rincewind

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2014, 02:18:57 PM »
Alex, in that case, I'm going with Cable's Weestrom suggestion. I guess I was considering this as a second bike, or maybe a bike for your wife. A lot of functional overlap with your Tiger, but as a replacement, It's a really nice option. You could even go for a Strom 1K, but the big difference there will be MPG. I was getting a consistent 38 on mine, but saw 41 once or twice. I'm a bit of a heavy wrist, though.

You're a tall guy; the Strom will accommodate you nicely. The weight is wonderful. You won't find a better bike with passenger room built in. The power delivery is very nice - lots of thrust in the midrange, but you already know that from the Gladius. The handling can be crisp and razor edged with a little tuning; good tires and keep the steering head bearings fresh, and you're golden. PR3s are available for it. That's a huge plus, IMO. Mine had Conti Trail Attacks on it, and I could get it over to scrape-angle at high speeds; there are good tires on the market to fit this. The bike is disgustingly solid and simple, and the FI works nicely. Valve checks are SOOOOOO much easier in the Strom than in the SV/Gladius due to the extra room around the back cylinder head. And honestly... if you get one >30,000 miles on it, it's unlikely you'll ever need an adjustment. Oil changes take all of about 10 minutes, and chain maintenance/adjustment is a snap on that bike the way the adjusters are.

It's good that you used six capital O's there to differentiate how much easier the Strom is for valve checks.  Otherwise I was thinking, maybe just sell the Tiger and keep the Glady for myself.  Good food for thought, thanks.  My wife is probably going to stick with living horses instead of the mechanical types.

It still seems like the NC700X would be even easier for self-servicing the valves as they are screw-locknut and accessible by swinging the radiator aside.  I tested one already so I know what the low power band was like as compared to the Suzukis.

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2014, 02:19:23 PM »
Honda PC800 aka: Pacific Coast. The bike everyone wanted, but no one bought.

the seemed really cool, until you rode one. they were incredibly boring.....
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Offline Max Wedge

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2014, 02:22:28 PM »
Honda PC800 aka: Pacific Coast. The bike everyone wanted, but no one bought.


the seemed really cool, until you rode one. they were incredibly boring.....


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Offline chornbe

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2014, 02:23:10 PM »

It's good that you used six capital O's there to differentiate how much easier the Strom is for valve checks.  Otherwise I was thinking, maybe just sell the Tiger and keep the Glady for myself.  Good food for thought, thanks.  My wife is probably going to stick with living horses instead of the mechanical types.

It still seems like the NC700X would be even easier for self-servicing the valves as they are screw-locknut and accessible by swinging the radiator aside.  I tested one already so I know what the low power band was like as compared to the Suzukis.

The only downside is the frequency (not a big deal if you're aware of it) and the fact that occasionally the screw-type adjusters may need replacement. Otherwise, it's an excellent point. If you're happy with the way that engine delivers power (very similar to the Sportster with slightly less off-idle thrust) with low- and mid-range and being anemic up top, then heck yes. Riding a bike with that kind of power delivery taught me a lot about riding a momentum bike fast (keep speed up in turns rather than relying on out of turn thrust) and making proper use of the gears.  :thumbsup:
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Offline chornbe

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2014, 02:24:04 PM »
"boring" = reliable in 99% of all cases.

I'll take it over some frenetic, high maintenance exotic any day of the week.
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Offline Mr. Whippy

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2014, 02:25:49 PM »
Alex, in that case, I'm going with Cable's Weestrom suggestion. I guess I was considering this as a second bike, or maybe a bike for your wife. A lot of functional overlap with your Tiger, but as a replacement, It's a really nice option. You could even go for a Strom 1K, but the big difference there will be MPG. I was getting a consistent 38 on mine, but saw 41 once or twice. I'm a bit of a heavy wrist, though.

You're a tall guy; the Strom will accommodate you nicely. The weight is wonderful. You won't find a better bike with passenger room built in. The power delivery is very nice - lots of thrust in the midrange, but you already know that from the Gladius. The handling can be crisp and razor edged with a little tuning; good tires and keep the steering head bearings fresh, and you're golden. PR3s are available for it. That's a huge plus, IMO. Mine had Conti Trail Attacks on it, and I could get it over to scrape-angle at high speeds; there are good tires on the market to fit this. The bike is disgustingly solid and simple, and the FI works nicely. Valve checks are SOOOOOO much easier in the Strom than in the SV/Gladius due to the extra room around the back cylinder head. And honestly... if you get one >30,000 miles on it, it's unlikely you'll ever need an adjustment. Oil changes take all of about 10 minutes, and chain maintenance/adjustment is a snap on that bike the way the adjusters are.

It's good that you used six capital O's there to differentiate how much easier the Strom is for valve checks.  Otherwise I was thinking, maybe just sell the Tiger and keep the Glady for myself.  Good food for thought, thanks. My wife is probably going to stick with living horses instead of the mechanical types.

It still seems like the NC700X would be even easier for self-servicing the valves as they are screw-locknut and accessible by swinging the radiator aside.  I tested one already so I know what the low power band was like as compared to the Suzukis.

Dude,

You're doomed that way.  My wife just likes horses so much more than...

well, just about anything.  Heck, we just picked up another one, last fall--she was SUCH a GOOD DEAL and she's PURRRRFECT!!!
That said, they ARE pretty fun, but certainly not motorcycle fun.  If you're looking for Hubbie/Wife hobbies, you probably should learn to like riding (horses).  It's a wicked addiction for X,X types.

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2014, 02:27:05 PM »
"boring" = reliable in 99% of all cases.

I'll take it over some frenetic, high maintenance exotic any day of the week.

it had no soul ;)  great for getting you from A-Z but not so much for making you smile. My nighthawk S was more fun and just as reliable. and they were not fast by any means.
the above are merely the ramblings of a hamfisted fuckwit who has broken too many helmets.

Offline Rincewind

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #30 on: March 19, 2014, 02:40:50 PM »
Alex, in that case, I'm going with Cable's Weestrom suggestion. I guess I was considering this as a second bike, or maybe a bike for your wife. A lot of functional overlap with your Tiger, but as a replacement, It's a really nice option. You could even go for a Strom 1K, but the big difference there will be MPG. I was getting a consistent 38 on mine, but saw 41 once or twice. I'm a bit of a heavy wrist, though.

You're a tall guy; the Strom will accommodate you nicely. The weight is wonderful. You won't find a better bike with passenger room built in. The power delivery is very nice - lots of thrust in the midrange, but you already know that from the Gladius. The handling can be crisp and razor edged with a little tuning; good tires and keep the steering head bearings fresh, and you're golden. PR3s are available for it. That's a huge plus, IMO. Mine had Conti Trail Attacks on it, and I could get it over to scrape-angle at high speeds; there are good tires on the market to fit this. The bike is disgustingly solid and simple, and the FI works nicely. Valve checks are SOOOOOO much easier in the Strom than in the SV/Gladius due to the extra room around the back cylinder head. And honestly... if you get one >30,000 miles on it, it's unlikely you'll ever need an adjustment. Oil changes take all of about 10 minutes, and chain maintenance/adjustment is a snap on that bike the way the adjusters are.

It's good that you used six capital O's there to differentiate how much easier the Strom is for valve checks.  Otherwise I was thinking, maybe just sell the Tiger and keep the Glady for myself.  Good food for thought, thanks. My wife is probably going to stick with living horses instead of the mechanical types.

It still seems like the NC700X would be even easier for self-servicing the valves as they are screw-locknut and accessible by swinging the radiator aside.  I tested one already so I know what the low power band was like as compared to the Suzukis.

Dude,

You're doomed that way.  My wife just likes horses so much more than...

well, just about anything.  Heck, we just picked up another one, last fall--she was SUCH a GOOD DEAL and she's PURRRRFECT!!!
That said, they ARE pretty fun, but certainly not motorcycle fun.  If you're looking for Hubbie/Wife hobbies, you probably should learn to like riding (horses).  It's a wicked addiction for X,X types.

Doomed - yes, I know about that.   We don't have a farm property so we pay for board.  It is not feasible given budget restrictions to talk about affording a second one at this time.  (My teenage daughter is in juvenile placement for 6-8 months and my paycheck is being garnished for child support toward a very, very expensive bill.)

I only ride the horse a few times a year to make her happy.  She likes to yell at me about all the things I'm doing wrong.  I'd rather have a bike that I can use for practical purposes 75% of the time or more, then a second horse.


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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #31 on: March 19, 2014, 02:50:03 PM »
"boring" = reliable in 99% of all cases.

I'll take it over some frenetic, high maintenance exotic any day of the week.

it had no soul ;)  great for getting you from A-Z but not so much for making you smile. My nighthawk S was more fun and just as reliable. and they were not fast by any means.

But your S couldn't fit three bags of groceries under the seat.  :)
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Offline Mr. Whippy

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #32 on: March 19, 2014, 02:57:55 PM »
Alex, in that case, I'm going with Cable's Weestrom suggestion. I guess I was considering this as a second bike, or maybe a bike for your wife. A lot of functional overlap with your Tiger, but as a replacement, It's a really nice option. You could even go for a Strom 1K, but the big difference there will be MPG. I was getting a consistent 38 on mine, but saw 41 once or twice. I'm a bit of a heavy wrist, though.

You're a tall guy; the Strom will accommodate you nicely. The weight is wonderful. You won't find a better bike with passenger room built in. The power delivery is very nice - lots of thrust in the midrange, but you already know that from the Gladius. The handling can be crisp and razor edged with a little tuning; good tires and keep the steering head bearings fresh, and you're golden. PR3s are available for it. That's a huge plus, IMO. Mine had Conti Trail Attacks on it, and I could get it over to scrape-angle at high speeds; there are good tires on the market to fit this. The bike is disgustingly solid and simple, and the FI works nicely. Valve checks are SOOOOOO much easier in the Strom than in the SV/Gladius due to the extra room around the back cylinder head. And honestly... if you get one >30,000 miles on it, it's unlikely you'll ever need an adjustment. Oil changes take all of about 10 minutes, and chain maintenance/adjustment is a snap on that bike the way the adjusters are.

It's good that you used six capital O's there to differentiate how much easier the Strom is for valve checks.  Otherwise I was thinking, maybe just sell the Tiger and keep the Glady for myself.  Good food for thought, thanks. My wife is probably going to stick with living horses instead of the mechanical types.

It still seems like the NC700X would be even easier for self-servicing the valves as they are screw-locknut and accessible by swinging the radiator aside.  I tested one already so I know what the low power band was like as compared to the Suzukis.

Dude,

You're doomed that way.  My wife just likes horses so much more than...

well, just about anything.  Heck, we just picked up another one, last fall--she was SUCH a GOOD DEAL and she's PURRRRFECT!!!
That said, they ARE pretty fun, but certainly not motorcycle fun.  If you're looking for Hubbie/Wife hobbies, you probably should learn to like riding (horses).  It's a wicked addiction for X,X types.

Doomed - yes, I know about that.   We don't have a farm property so we pay for board.  It is not feasible given budget restrictions to talk about affording a second one at this time.  (My teenage daughter is in juvenile placement for 6-8 months and my paycheck is being garnished for child support toward a very, very expensive bill.)

I only ride the horse a few times a year to make her happy.  She likes to yell at me about all the things I'm doing wrong.  I'd rather have a bike that I can use for practical purposes 75% of the time or more, then a second horse.

Ouch.  Yea that's tough.  We have a farm, and even so an additional horse is a big expense (feed, hay, bedding, shoes every 4-6 weeks, vet...)  We also had the "Headstrong Teenage Daughter" which isn't a cheap event either.

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #33 on: March 19, 2014, 02:58:51 PM »
"boring" = reliable in 99% of all cases.

I'll take it over some frenetic, high maintenance exotic any day of the week.

it had no soul ;)  great for getting you from A-Z but not so much for making you smile. My nighthawk S was more fun and just as reliable. and they were not fast by any means.

But your S couldn't fit three bags of groceries under the seat.  :)

true, but it could carry 3 cases  of beer on the tank ;D  I didn't buy groceries in those days, that's why I had a girlfriend ;) for everything else bungee's solved the problem.
the above are merely the ramblings of a hamfisted fuckwit who has broken too many helmets.

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2014, 03:01:09 PM »


Ouch.  Yea that's tough.  We have a farm, and even so an additional horse is a big expense (feed, hay, bedding, shoes every 4-6 weeks, vet...)  We also had the "Headstrong Teenage Daughter" which isn't a cheap event either.


tell me about it, my wife raises the damn things. I think we have around 20 in the pasture at any given time. hay now comes like this:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


 :-[
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Offline Rincewind

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #35 on: March 19, 2014, 03:02:57 PM »


Ouch.  Yea that's tough.  We have a farm, and even so an additional horse is a big expense (feed, hay, bedding, shoes every 4-6 weeks, vet...)  We also had the "Headstrong Teenage Daughter" which isn't a cheap event either.


tell me about it, my wife raises the damn things. I think we have around 20 in the pasture at any given time. hay now comes like this:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


 :-[


Wow, I hope she is at least turning a profit and not just in manure.   :o

Offline Dan K

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #36 on: March 19, 2014, 03:11:18 PM »
The Burgie's a good choice, and considerably more fun than you might think. The 650 can be a little lumbering in the low speed stuff until you get comfy just dragging the rear brake (by hand, not foot). It's incredibly comfortable, certainly more than powerful enough, and leans with more gusto than you'd think. I bought Whippy's old one (via JamminJere) and took that to places, on roads, and into corners at speeds that I'm sure the normal audience for that bike would consider all sorts of wrong and stupid.

Considering you're factoring in maintenance costs and depreciation, it's also a really good choice. Tires are cheap, oil changes are cheap, valve checks are easy. Comes standard with ABS and can be had for a (relative) song and at this point, the used market for them has stabilized; you won't lose much on resale in a reasonable time frame.

Mine is being held hostage by the *&@0*&@$)78 who refuses to give it back to me, and the court won't do a damned &*@#$&)*#@ING thing about it. I could REALLY use that thing right now... :\

Why not just steal it back with one of the kid's assistance? Don't you own it? Unless there are court orders giving her possession...if you can get it in your possession with no muss, no fuss, what's she going to do about it? Of course, that may set her off on other, unrelated issues, but still...

 -Dan

Oh, back on topic - the Honda NC700 came to mind when reading your list, Rince. Honda reliable, should hold value, hits the check list.

Sometimes, the only answer is defenestration.

Offline Mr. Whippy

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #37 on: March 19, 2014, 03:18:24 PM »


Ouch.  Yea that's tough.  We have a farm, and even so an additional horse is a big expense (feed, hay, bedding, shoes every 4-6 weeks, vet...)  We also had the "Headstrong Teenage Daughter" which isn't a cheap event either.


tell me about it, my wife raises the damn things. I think we have around 20 in the pasture at any given time. hay now comes like this:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


 :-[


Gawd! We were there about a decade ago.  Freakin' foals, yearlings and two year olds all over the place.  I finally pointed out that all she was doing was cleaning up and grooming and not actually riding.  Mercifully, we're down to 5 of our own and three boarders.

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #38 on: March 19, 2014, 03:21:54 PM »

Gawd! We were there about a decade ago.  Freakin' foals, yearlings and two year olds all over the place.  I finally pointed out that all she was doing was cleaning up and grooming and not actually riding.  Mercifully, we're down to 5 of our own and three boarders.

its a good thing she has a day job as a nurse. she does make some decent money on them, sold one sat. for $20k but we are still in the red all things considered. but getting closer to breaking even.. hopefully on of these years it will turn a profit...
the above are merely the ramblings of a hamfisted fuckwit who has broken too many helmets.

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #39 on: March 19, 2014, 03:22:52 PM »


Oh, back on topic - the Honda NC700 came to mind when reading your list, Rince. Honda reliable, should hold value, hits the check list.

my brother has one and I have to admit it's not too bad.
the above are merely the ramblings of a hamfisted fuckwit who has broken too many helmets.

Offline Mr. Whippy

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #40 on: March 19, 2014, 03:24:29 PM »

Gawd! We were there about a decade ago.  Freakin' foals, yearlings and two year olds all over the place.  I finally pointed out that all she was doing was cleaning up and grooming and not actually riding.  Mercifully, we're down to 5 of our own and three boarders.

its a good thing she has a day job as a nurse. she does make some decent money on them, sold one sat. for $20k but we are still in the red all things considered. but getting closer to breaking even.. hopefully on of these years it will turn a profit...

Do you know how to make a small fortune in horses?














Start with a large fortune.

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #41 on: March 19, 2014, 03:26:46 PM »


Do you know how to make a small fortune in horses?














Start with a large fortune.

exactly!! horse people have odd accounting habits as well.

 "I bought her for $2k, rode her for 6 months and sold her for $10k. so, I made $8k!!"

"umm.. no.."   :facepalm:
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Offline squeezer

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #42 on: March 19, 2014, 03:29:02 PM »
Geez, I thought my Tiger 800 question was a threadjack. Now we're on a horse thread.   :D

Thanks Rince & Whippy for your comments. If someone wants to buy a well kept 03 FJR, let me know.
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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #43 on: March 19, 2014, 03:29:50 PM »

Gawd! We were there about a decade ago.  Freakin' foals, yearlings and two year olds all over the place.  I finally pointed out that all she was doing was cleaning up and grooming and not actually riding.  Mercifully, we're down to 5 of our own and three boarders.

its a good thing she has a day job as a nurse. she does make some decent money on them, sold one sat. for $20k but we are still in the red all things considered. but getting closer to breaking even.. hopefully on of these years it will turn a profit...

My girlfriend has a side gig retraining former race horses for trail riding, teaching them to not always want to run, teaching them not to be complete assholes... former race horses that have been retrained can be gotten very cheap and (can, but not always do) make excellent trail horses. Might be worth looking into. A lot of the time, they can apparently be bought off the circuit for transportation money.
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Offline chornbe

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #44 on: March 19, 2014, 03:31:10 PM »
Geez, I thought my Tiger 800 question was a threadjack. Now we're on a horse thread.   :D

Thanks Rince & Whippy for your comments. If someone wants to buy a well kept 03 FJR, let me know.

Alex, I've ridden and worked on Ed's FJR. It's very, very nicely kept. I'll go get it in SoCal and ride it back if you want.  :wave:
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Offline Napper

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #45 on: March 19, 2014, 03:34:12 PM »
Honda PC800 aka: Pacific Coast. The bike everyone wanted, but no one bought.

That was what I was thinking when I read the OP, too.  But then again:  rear drum brakes; fork seals prone to leaking, leading to weak to nonexistent front brakes; 1980's suspension that would definitely need upgraded to be comfortable riding sportily, but the upgrade options are not all that expensive.

What you get is a bike that is a bit of sleeper; great cargo carrying capacity; great support from the online community; I never carried a passenger but a lot of owners' wives love the pillion, especially if you can find one of the back rests; and self-canceling turn signals.

I think I like the Burgman suggestion better.

Offline Mr. Whippy

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #46 on: March 19, 2014, 03:35:54 PM »

Gawd! We were there about a decade ago.  Freakin' foals, yearlings and two year olds all over the place.  I finally pointed out that all she was doing was cleaning up and grooming and not actually riding.  Mercifully, we're down to 5 of our own and three boarders.

its a good thing she has a day job as a nurse. she does make some decent money on them, sold one sat. for $20k but we are still in the red all things considered. but getting closer to breaking even.. hopefully on of these years it will turn a profit...

My girlfriend has a side gig retraining former race horses for trail riding, teaching them to not always want to run, teaching them not to be complete assholes... former race horses that have been retrained can be gotten very cheap and (can, but not always do) make excellent trail horses. Might be worth looking into. A lot of the time, they can apparently be bought off the circuit for transportation money.

This is true.  The retraining is the F'd part.  There's a reason those horses are called "Track Trash".  Bad stable manners, nasty about their food, often have sneaky ways of dumping the rider.  It takes a tough, resilient rider to get them retrained for general use.

But yes, once rehab'ed they can be outstanding animals and yes, they can be had for meat money.

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #47 on: March 19, 2014, 03:41:30 PM »

Gawd! We were there about a decade ago.  Freakin' foals, yearlings and two year olds all over the place.  I finally pointed out that all she was doing was cleaning up and grooming and not actually riding.  Mercifully, we're down to 5 of our own and three boarders.

its a good thing she has a day job as a nurse. she does make some decent money on them, sold one sat. for $20k but we are still in the red all things considered. but getting closer to breaking even.. hopefully on of these years it will turn a profit...

My girlfriend has a side gig retraining former race horses for trail riding, teaching them to not always want to run, teaching them not to be complete assholes... former race horses that have been retrained can be gotten very cheap and (can, but not always do) make excellent trail horses. Might be worth looking into. A lot of the time, they can apparently be bought off the circuit for transportation money.

actually Shawna raises/trains barrel horses so their papers are almost as important as the training. She has had an occasional race horse but they are a lot of work as you are not starting with a clean slate like you are when you raise your own. I will ask her about them though.
 the horse market is a crazy thing and people do crazy stuff. We've had an NFR contestant take us to supper on her way through town because she like the horse Shawna sold her daughter. and there was the couple along with 2 kids and a hired man that drove up from New Mexico in a pickup/trailer to "look" at a horse she had advertised? they bought her, but that's a pretty big investment in not only $ but time for a 13 year olds 4H barrel horse??
her last buyer rented a indoor arena for the day to try a couple of her horses? who does that?
the above are merely the ramblings of a hamfisted fuckwit who has broken too many helmets.

Offline Mr. Whippy

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #48 on: March 19, 2014, 03:45:07 PM »

Gawd! We were there about a decade ago.  Freakin' foals, yearlings and two year olds all over the place.  I finally pointed out that all she was doing was cleaning up and grooming and not actually riding.  Mercifully, we're down to 5 of our own and three boarders.

its a good thing she has a day job as a nurse. she does make some decent money on them, sold one sat. for $20k but we are still in the red all things considered. but getting closer to breaking even.. hopefully on of these years it will turn a profit...

My girlfriend has a side gig retraining former race horses for trail riding, teaching them to not always want to run, teaching them not to be complete assholes... former race horses that have been retrained can be gotten very cheap and (can, but not always do) make excellent trail horses. Might be worth looking into. A lot of the time, they can apparently be bought off the circuit for transportation money.

actually Shawna raises/trains barrel horses so their papers are almost as important as the training. She has had an occasional race horse but they are a lot of work as you are not starting with a clean slate like you are when you raise your own. I will ask her about them though.
 the horse market is a crazy thing and people do crazy stuff. We've had an NFR contestant take us to supper on her way through town because she like the horse Shawna sold her daughter. and there was the couple along with 2 kids and a hired man that drove up from New Mexico in a pickup/trailer to "look" at a horse she had advertised? they bought her, but that's a pretty big investment in not only $ but time for a 13 year olds 4H barrel horse??
her last buyer rented a indoor arena for the day to try a couple of her horses? who does that?

Those barrel racing horses have to have perfect conformation.  The stresses on their joints--fetlocks to hip/shoulder are crazy.  Anything wrong there and they're in for a short career.

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Re: Recommend a bike with low costs to own
« Reply #49 on: March 19, 2014, 03:48:20 PM »
Back to the OP- my Bandit checks all those boxes but gas mileage.  I get about 45-47 with it.  Of course mine is an '03 carbed model- I'm not sure what the new ones do.
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