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Author Topic: Who's to blame; DMG or AMA?  (Read 5409 times)

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Offline kneescrubber

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Who's to blame; DMG or AMA?
« on: March 05, 2014, 07:05:36 PM »
I'm willing to open a discussion about the sad state of affairs regarding a national motorcycle roadracing series. Many want to blame DMG, which has the rights to promote and organize races. Granted to them by the AMA. IMHO DMG has royally fucked the primary national series we've had for the last 40+ years. But I prefer to place the blame a little higher up. AMA is squarely to blame for this fiasco. AMA signed a contract with DMG to promote and organize the races. And it's been going downhill since. Why is AMA not jerking the contract from DMG? Do they not care? Or, did they not have an out in the contract they awarded DMG? Either way, AMA fucked up and does not deserve to be the sanctioning body recognized by FIM.


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Online squeezer

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Re: Who's to blame; DMG or AMA?
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2014, 07:12:27 PM »
I'll play devil's advocate. AMA knew they were screwing the pooch on race promotion and made an excellent decision to get out of the game. The group they signed with had solid cred and apparently money in the bank. Then they did what they should have done and got the f@#k out of the way.

Maybe they can slammed for not having a way to dump the contract if DMG failed to live up to certain standards (like a certain number of races per year). Maybe they wouldn't have gotten a contract if they tried to negotiate that clause.

Still, this is firmly in DMG's camp.
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Offline coucours grad

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Re: Who's to blame; DMG or AMA?
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2014, 07:18:46 PM »
Nobody has blamed Obama yet???



You guys are slipping!
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Re: Who's to blame; DMG or AMA?
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2014, 08:05:42 PM »
Nobody has blamed Obama yet???



You guys are slipping!

That's because it's shrub's fault, just like everything else. Duh.

Part of the problem is the class structure. Successful racing series have never been about saving money. The 600's should be the minimal modification work your way up budget class, and the 1000 should be the stock block and frame while anything else goes big money class. As it sits now, superbikes are neutered and not really faster than a 600.
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Offline motociclista

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Re: Who's to blame; DMG or AMA?
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2014, 10:49:58 AM »
Like just about everything Rob Dingman has done since becoming president of the AMA, selling (although as far as anyone can tell, the AMA didn't really get any money) roadracing to DMG has been a failure.

My feeling is that DMG doesn't care because motorcycle roadracing is such small potatoes, and the AMA has far bigger problems to worry about, such as $4 million in losses in the last three years and severely declining membership.

You can read my analysis of that situation here: http://www.theridesofar.com/2014/02/the-decline-of-the-ama/.

During the chaotic first year of DMG ownership, some other entities considered trying to challenge the AMA with a competing series and thought better. Now, however, the situation is different and it may actually be a less daunting prospect.
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Online Black Hills

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Re: Who's to blame; DMG or AMA?
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2014, 11:46:18 AM »
there is the chance that road racing in America does not generate enough income to support itself? this along with the absence of anyone with deep pockets will be it's demise..
the above are merely the ramblings of a hamfisted fuckwit who has broken too many helmets.

Offline Mac

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Re: Who's to blame; DMG or AMA?
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2014, 06:17:15 PM »
Not too many factory teams on the grid these days.
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Offline kneescrubber

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Re: Who's to blame; DMG or AMA?
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2014, 06:30:30 PM »
You can read my analysis of that situation here: http://www.theridesofar.com/2014/02/the-decline-of-the-ama/.


Quote
The AMA, which dates back to 1924, reached 150,000 members for the first time in 1988.


Not to get off topic, but really? AMA membership was only 150K in 1988. I'd love to see your source for that statement. Just sayin'.  ;)
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Offline motociclista

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Re: Who's to blame; DMG or AMA?
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2014, 06:33:11 PM »
@Black Hills: If there's not enough money to support a Superbike series in the United States, why is there enough to support a solid Superbike series in much smaller Britain? It could be done, if done right.

@Mac: There are no factory teams because DMG chased them away as a matter of policy. They wanted AMA Superbike to be like NASCAR. Ford, Chevy and Toyota don't own the dominant NASCAR teams. The teams are independent. DMG wanted the same thing in Superbike and ran off the factory efforts. The trouble is, there's nothing left. The NASCAR model doesn't work for Superbike racing.
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Offline kneescrubber

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Re: Who's to blame; DMG or AMA?
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2014, 06:40:57 PM »
Not too many factory teams on the grid these days.

None actually. The big 4 abandoned the US scene a long time ago. Way before DMG took over.
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Offline motociclista

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Re: Who's to blame; DMG or AMA?
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2014, 06:54:42 PM »
You can read my analysis of that situation here: http://www.theridesofar.com/2014/02/the-decline-of-the-ama/.


Quote
The AMA, which dates back to 1924, reached 150,000 members for the first time in 1988.


Not to get off topic, but really? AMA membership was only 150K in 1988. I'd love to see your source for that statement. Just sayin'.  ;)


Would the AMA magazine be a good enough source to convince you?

http://books.google.com/books?id=FvYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=RA1-PA70&dq=American+Motorcyclist+1988+150,000+members&hl=en&sa=X&ei=MBgZU-iVEMeYqwGHx4GoAg&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=American%20Motorcyclist%201988%20150%2C000%20members&f=false
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Offline kneescrubber

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Re: Who's to blame; DMG or AMA?
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2014, 06:55:01 PM »
there is the chance that road racing in America does not generate enough income to support itself?

I understand demographic changes. And I'll also throw in that this is a BIG geographical area. Personally, I think the factories threw in the towel and said "we'll come back you wanky americans can figure out what the dang rules are". We supported a national series for years. What has changed? Seriously.

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Offline motociclista

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Re: Who's to blame; DMG or AMA?
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2014, 07:05:17 PM »
Not too many factory teams on the grid these days.


None actually. The big 4 abandoned the US scene a long time ago. Way before DMG took over.


In 2008, when control of the series was handed over to DMG, all four Japanese manufacturers had factory teams. Honda was the first to go in 2009.

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2008/12/13december08_noroadrace/

The exodus began under DMG, not "way before."
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Offline kneescrubber

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Re: Who's to blame; DMG or AMA?
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2014, 07:07:21 PM »
Would the AMA magazine be a good enough source to convince you?

http://books.google.com/books?id=FvYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=RA1-PA70&dq=American+Motorcyclist+1988+150,000+members&hl=en&sa=X&ei=MBgZU-iVEMeYqwGHx4GoAg&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=American%20Motorcyclist%201988%20150%2C000%20members&f=false


Thank you. I'm surprised. I was a member back then.



My feeling is that DMG doesn't care because motorcycle roadracing is such small potatoes


Since you appear to be the omniscient one regarding AMA & DMG, maybe you can explain to me why DMG bought (your term) the currently named AMA Roadracing series in the first place.

And just to be a thorn; It is an AMA series. Not DMG. A matter of of semantics perhaps, but if I'm going to lay blame, I'm going to lay it on the top.  ;)

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Offline motociclista

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Re: Who's to blame; DMG or AMA?
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2014, 07:17:11 PM »
When I say "my feeling is...", that doesn't claim omniscience. It's pretty clear it's just my supposition. I don't know for sure why DMG does anything.

But since you asked, here's my speculation. Why did they buy the series? They thought they could make it a success. They tried to nail down their control by running out the manufacturers, who had, in DMG's eyes, too much power. They thought they'd make it like NASCAR. Trouble is, the manufacturers were the main source of money. So it didn't work. The sport then went into a downward spiral due to the economy, lousy demographics in the motorcycle industry and declining sportbike sales. The downward spiral is self-perpetuating as teams like Buell and Jordan leave. Then there's no TV package, fewer races, so there's no sponsors, and the spiral continues.

Consider this, too. There has never been any evidence presented that DMG paid the AMA a single dime for the series. AMA leadership refuses to say. The AMA's tax filings, which are public record, have not shown any income from such a sale. So maybe DMG "bought" it because it was free.

And I agree with you, the AMA is ultimately responsible. Especially if they "sold" it to DMG, which ran it into the ground, and then used an escape clause to avoid paying anything because the series was no longer worth anything. (Again, not omniscience, just speculation by others who are fairly well informed.)
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Offline kneescrubber

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Re: Who's to blame; DMG or AMA?
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2014, 09:36:57 PM »

Consider this, too. There has never been any evidence presented that DMG paid the AMA a single dime for the series. AMA leadership refuses to say. The AMA's tax filings, which are public record, have not shown any income from such a sale. So maybe DMG "bought" it because it was free.


Here's the bug for me. You keep talking about DMG buying the series. The way I see it, DMG didn't buy the series; they bought the rights to promote and organize the series. AMA is still the sanctioning body for the series. That's why it's still called AMA racing, not DMG racing. We both agree that DMG basically ran it into the ground. But IMHO it was headed downward way before DMG got involved.
Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.

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