COVID-19 Video

[Flyer]

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[zer0netgain]

and why would the government want to terrify its population in this way, anyway? and to what end? there's loads of more effective ways of doing that, in any case.

Because fear is an effective tool for corralling the populace into submitting to things they would never otherwise agree to.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

and why would the government want to terrify its population in this way, anyway? and to what end? there's loads of more effective ways of doing that, in any case.

Because fear is an effective tool for corralling the populace into submitting to things they would never otherwise agree to.

Possibly, but when you look at the scale of this pandemic, I think that line of thinking is a bit too much 

[Baxter]

and why would the government want to terrify its population in this way, anyway? and to what end? there's loads of more effective ways of doing that, in any case.

Because fear is an effective tool for corralling the populace into submitting to things they would never otherwise agree to.

Possibly, but when you look at the scale of this pandemic, I think that line of thinking is a bit too much 

Being asked to wear a mask and social distance for the duration of a pandemic doesn't sound like steps toward thought control over the populace.  It's nothing like the Red Scare tactics from the 1950s.

[OHScot]

Hmmm how about sheltering in place, shutting down private business, food and product shortages, rampant unemployment, cities burning.  The Red Scare was more of a picnic in damage done to our country.

You were kidding, oh now I see.

This thread will probably go away as the others have.  So last but not least censorship by large tech and social pressure to conform to the narrative opinion.

Gas is cheap though, better pack a lunch food can be a little difficult at times unless you think MCd's is food.

[miles]

Seriously, what is my government asking me to do that is so nefarious? 

Wear a mask?  The government already requires I wear clothes- this is just one more piece.

Limit my interactions with others?  Others who might infect me and give me a possibly fatal illness?  Yeah, I'd do that anyway no matter what the government said during a pandemic.

Work from home if possible?  You mean I'm not required to deal with rush hour traffic on a daily basis?  Quelle horreur! 

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Switzerland is experiencing high numbers. My canton just established further restrictions: all restaurants, gyms, pools, etc, are closed until December 13th. There is still take away, but no more going in an getting table service.

I read something about the government's coverage of rent for small businesses. I don't recall the exact sources, but they call it the 1/3 solution: 1/3 of rent is covered by the renter, 1/3 covered by government, and 1/3 covered by the landlord.

EDIT: Found the actual text of what is apparently a proposal (but will probably take effect shortly):

"According to the proposal, the canton will reimburse one third of the rent to lessors who have agreed with their tenants to reduce their rent by at least two thirds of the net rent whilst emergency measures are in place. This means that the lessor, tenant and canton would each be responsible for paying one third of the original rent. This would apply to net monthly rent payments of up to a maximum of 20,000 Swiss francs, making the canton’s contribution a maximum of 6,700 Swiss francs per month in each case."

[Skee]

Seriously, what is my government asking me to do that is so nefarious? 

Wear a mask?  The government already requires I wear clothes- this is just one more piece.

Limit my interactions with others?  Others who might infect me and give me a possibly fatal illness?  Yeah, I'd do that anyway no matter what the government said during a pandemic.

Work from home if possible?  You mean I'm not required to deal with rush hour traffic on a daily basis?  Quelle horreur!

I’d do the things required by the restrictions independently if the restrictions did not exist.  I started using a seatbelt and wearing a helmet long before they were required by law.  Why not?

I intend to survive this thing until life hopefully returns to normal.  In the meantime, I wish our government would offer low interest long term loans to people - much like it did during the Great Depression (and Switzerland is doing now) - to keep them on their feet long term until the economy recovers or at least the winter is over - instead of short term stimulus money handouts. It’s been done before and it worked for Middle America. But enough about that because I don’t want this discussion to become political. It’s already on its way to the outhouse. 

[Papa Lazarou]

.............................. Quelle horreur!

I love it when you talk in that sexy accent.

[Baxter]

... I don’t want this discussion to become political. It’s already on its way to the outhouse.

Unfortunately, it seems that its too easy for a covid discussion to be perceived as being political even when a comment wasn't intended to be political.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

... I don’t want this discussion to become political. It’s already on its way to the outhouse.

Unfortunately, it seems that its too easy for a covid discussion to be perceived as being political even when a comment wasn't intended to be political.

I think that a subject like this can walk the line. There are obvious political comments, and then there are comments that can't really be avoided. Just keep it clean. 

[Skee]

"Future-tense hope is complicated by the fact that the future is a fragile place, cognitively," wrote Robert Sapolsky, an expert on human behavior. "Sacrificing immediate pleasure (a big gathering at Thanksgiving, for example), for a bigger future gain (less sickness and death) is tough for humans."

Writers have lamented the unwillingness of some Americans to make sacrifices in the pandemic, but we shouldn't be all that surprised, wrote historian Nicole Hemmer. Even the "greatest generation" wasn't fully on board with the restrictions enacted during World War II. "Personal sacrifice for community benefit is incredibly difficult," Hemmer pointed out.

"Americans sacrificed during the war, as they do today, for a wide range of reasons: altruism, food shortages, poverty, regulations, social pressure. The sort of sacrifices Americans made during WWII were, as often as not, mandatory and resented. They required not just laws but extensive propaganda campaigns, severe social sanctions, and regular exhortations that a little sacrifice on the home front would save countless lives on the frontlines."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/20/opinions/mask-marshmallow-covid-vaccine-sapolsky/index.html

https://apple.news/A_nmYIT9FRpW2W2ZhnNFwkA

Multi tasking watching Moto GP Portugal with 2 laps tp gp

[OHScot]

Seriously, what is my government asking me to do that is so nefarious? 

Wear a mask?  The government already requires I wear clothes- this is just one more piece.

Limit my interactions with others?  Others who might infect me and give me a possibly fatal illness?  Yeah, I'd do that anyway no matter what the government said during a pandemic.

Work from home if possible?  You mean I'm not required to deal with rush hour traffic on a daily basis?  Quelle horreur!

Glad you are doing well.  Many are not. 

[Baxter]

Seriously, what is my government asking me to do that is so nefarious? 

Wear a mask?  The government already requires I wear clothes- this is just one more piece.

Limit my interactions with others?  Others who might infect me and give me a possibly fatal illness?  Yeah, I'd do that anyway no matter what the government said during a pandemic.

Work from home if possible?  You mean I'm not required to deal with rush hour traffic on a daily basis?  Quelle horreur!

Glad you are doing well.  Many are not.

You're right that the job market has been a mixed bag. Hospitality and travel have been hit hard. But where I'm at we've seen a strong increase in commercial and residential construction, which has brought jobs in actual construction and in all the ancillary businesses like window or plumbing manufacturers. Further, boats are selling 3 months out or more, and we have several boat manufacturers in state.  Not all, but still a lot of people have been able to shift to other jobs.  Hopefully we'll be able to hang on and open up again soon.

[Baxter]

My niece who had covid recovered, but I just learned that another of my wife's sisters has covid.  She works at an old folks home, but the facility has been proactive from the start and haven't had significant issues.  We're all hoping that the precautions she took with her patients paid off and they don't get sick because they're elderly and frail.  We're also hoping that her case is mild, so far it's just at the level of a severe cold.

We would likely have been with that sis-in-law this past weekend except that we were isolating in advance of my hernia operation.  We're also skipping Thanksgiving with the fam who aren't now under quarantine as my wife has a cardio procedure next Monday and we don't want any complications there.

So do we get a small bird, or just go with a ham?

[Papa Lazarou]

hope all goes well for them both.

small bird. avocet or European swallow.

[Baxter]

hope all goes well for them both.

small bird. avocet or European swallow.

Thanks!

[Skee]

Updated 11/19/20

EU and UK Totals

11 Million cases (2.5% of population) with 276K deaths (2.5% death rate) 

U.S.A.

11.8 Million cases (3.6% of population) with 256K deaths (2.1% death rate)

I have updated this as my original numbers for the US was off.  I'm not trying to make this political, but "red states" and "the Orange Man" get blamed for failing to deal with this virus and many allude to the US doing worse the the world.  Well, that's just not true.  I'm not red or blue, but a pissed off porcupine (libertarian) and am sick and tired of the whole thing. 

And, by "whole thing" that is the continuation of this virus, folks not social distancing and taking it seriously enough, the politicizing of it, the entire lot.

To your point "...and many allude to the US doing worse the the world.  Well, that's just not true."

U.S. media is far more pessimistic in covering the coronavirus pandemic than anyone else   However, the authors also disagree with their own position in that they state"...it should be more negative in the U.S. because our case numbers and our death rate is worse."

It all depends how you look at it.  I feel mainstream media devotes far too much time to domestic Covid coverage and practically ignores everything else that is happening.  It's like Covid is the only story every night to the point I'm sick of hearing about it.  No news is not new news.

So he and his co-authors, Ranjan Sehgal of Dartmouth and Molly Cook of Brown University, decided to crunch the numbers. They analyzed the tone of COVID-19–related news stories appearing in the mainstream U.S. media and transcripts from television broadcasts — the likes of the New York Times, CNN and Fox News — and compared them to the content appearing in both international media outlets and scientific journals.

What they found, they say, was startling negativity in the mainstream U.S. media. For example, 90% of school-reopening articles from the U.S. mainstream media were negative, versus only 56% for the English-language media in other countries. Stories of increasing COVID-19 cases outnumbered stories about decreasing cases by a factor of 5.5 — even during periods when new cases were declining, according to a working paper circulated by the National Bureau of Economic Research.

An interesting finding is the negativity wasn’t correlated with partisanship — Fox News, for example, was as negative in tone as CNN. “The U.S. media are in this bizarre and impossible situation where you have this person in the White House doing these unusual things. And they feel compelled to cover it. At the same time, we don’t think of this as a Trump effect; we really think this is broader than that,” he said.

Could it be that the U.S. media reflect that the coronavirus pandemic has hit America harder than other English-language countries such as Australia and Canada? Sacerdote found that explanation wanting, pointing out that, with vaccines for example, the developments were the same across the world, and yet the U.S. coverage was far more negative.

[viffergyrl]

'They Stop Yelling At You When They Get Intubated': South Dakota Nurse Says Patients Are Denying COVID-19 to Their Dying Breath



https://www.theroot.com/they-stop-yelling-at-you-when-they-get-intubated-south-1845691330

Hmmmm.... right up there with COVID parties?

https://www.wired.com/story/are-covid-patients-gasping-it-isnt-real-as-they-die/

[Black Hills]

the media doing, or not doing, their job and everyone's desire for their 15 minutes is insane. My wife is an ICU nurse at the VA in Sturgis and has seen nothing like that. In fact most of her patients are scared to death of it. Many have been isolating themselves to avoid it and yet they still come down with it. The most delusional I've seen is people think it's worth the risk to continue on as normal since "I probably won't get it and if I do I'll probably survive." I have yet to meet anyone who thinks it's "fake" and I know plenty of far right nut jobs...

[CLAY]

the media doing, or not doing, their job and everyone's desire for their 15 minutes is insane. My wife is an ICU nurse at the VA in Sturgis and has seen nothing like that. In fact most of her patients are scared to death of it. Many have been isolating themselves to avoid it and yet they still come down with it. The most delusional I've seen is people think it's worth the risk to continue on as normal since "I probably won't get it and if I do I'll probably survive." I have yet to meet anyone who thinks it's "fake" and I know plenty of far right nut jobs...

We have several people at school and at church like that.  It's crazy. 

For several days I was the only middle school teacher at school- the rest were quarantined or had it.  That sucked, but it was better than being online.  Non-stop all day.

Now I've developed a pretty bad cough going into Thanksgiving break.  Hopefully no fever.  While i don't fear it, I certainly don't want it- not this close to vaccinations...

[stevent]

We finally know someone personally who's got it. A mild case so far so hope for the best. We haven't seen them in months so no fear for us from her at least.

As far as masks and what-not I don't have a problem with it, I'm a germ-a-phobe anyway and I think Howard Hughes was entirely reasonable in his precautions. I've always hated shaking hands with strangers and I've been social distancing out of choice for years. Not really a big change for me.

I hate to see businesses and people being bankrupted though, I think there's a fine line between protecting people and killing them (figuratively) out of excessive caution. Tough to find a balance I'm afraid.

[miles]

Now I've developed a pretty bad cough going into Thanksgiving break.  Hopefully no fever.  While i don't fear it, I certainly don't want it- not this close to vaccinations...

Scary.  Hopefully it's just a cold.

[Papa Lazarou]

Now I've developed a pretty bad cough going into Thanksgiving break.  Hopefully no fever.  While i don't fear it, I certainly don't want it- not this close to vaccinations...

Scary.  Hopefully it's just a cold.

get tested and isolate. stay safe, Clay.

[zer0netgain]

the media doing, or not doing, their job and everyone's desire for their 15 minutes is insane....

In the USA particularly, the media is a whore...they thrive off of keeping people on edge.  From overtly dramatic presentation of the news to focusing on stories that instill fear and dread in viewers.

[Baxter]

I hate to see businesses and people being bankrupted though, I think there's a fine line between protecting people and killing them (figuratively) out of excessive caution. Tough to find a balance I'm afraid.

I think the shut-downs wouldn't have to happen if enough of us were disciplined to wear masks and social distance in a thorough and complete manner for the duration of the pandemic.  So I place responsibility for the closures on the anti-maskers.

[Black Hills]

everyone is an anit-masker at bars and restuarants

[Baxter]

everyone is an anit-masker at bars and restuarants

   I see your point.  So far, I haven't read anything indicating that bars & restaurants which follow appropriate protocols have been identified as significant spreaders.  It's going to get bad for them when the outdoor seating can't be used--which is now in my area.  Some have added sheds or tents to help with heating, but even that won't work out well soon.

On the other hand, it's been interesting listening to friends talking about how much they're saving by cooking for themselves instead of going out. I wonder whether this will become an enduring habit after the pandemic is over?

[Black Hills]

I think a lot of behaviors will be permanently changed after this is over.

[Baxter]

the media doing, or not doing, their job and everyone's desire for their 15 minutes is insane....

In the USA particularly, the media is a whore...they thrive off of keeping people on edge.  From overtly dramatic presentation of the news to focusing on stories that instill fear and dread in viewers.

For decades, many articles have been written outlining how Big Pharma has everyone over a barrel.  It seems a media fixation, and the articles never appear to have been written from a Free Enterprise/Free Market perspective.  (I interpreted the articles as investment advice--why fight 'em when I can join 'em.)

I haven't seen any recent articles objecting to Big Pharma having the knowledge and resources to simultaneously develop several different vaccines in a very short timeframe.  Yea for the Free Market!

[stevent]

So the next big question is, when a vaccine becomes available will you take it?

On the one side we have the better living through chemistry folks, already standing in line.
On the other side, the anti-vaxxers and Bill Gates "mark of the beast / new world order / it's all part of a master plan to enslave us" believers.

I don't know, I get a flu shot every year because after having both pneumonia and the real deal influenza over the years I know that shit is not something you want to deal with. I have compromised lungs anyway so I would imagine covid would not end well for me, or maybe I'd be part of the 99.5% who showed no symptoms.

To be perfectly honest, I'm overweight, 63 years old, I have afib. and compromised lungs, I think at this point I'd go ahead and get a shot and hope I didn't grow tits or something. Better than drowning in your own fluids..

[CLAY]

Now I've developed a pretty bad cough going into Thanksgiving break.  Hopefully no fever.  While i don't fear it, I certainly don't want it- not this close to vaccinations...

Scary.  Hopefully it's just a cold.

get tested and isolate. stay safe, Clay.

Just tested positive.  Low grade fever this early evening and a cough, maybe a little tightness in the chest.  Isolating...

[viffergyrl]

Now I've developed a pretty bad cough going into Thanksgiving break.  Hopefully no fever.  While i don't fear it, I certainly don't want it- not this close to vaccinations...

Scary.  Hopefully it's just a cold.

get tested and isolate. stay safe, Clay.

Just tested positive.  Low grade fever this early evening and a cough, maybe a little tightness in the chest.  Isolating...

Stay on top of this, dude.

[zer0netgain]

hope all goes well for them both.

small bird. avocet or European swallow.

Depends...is the coconut included?

[stevent]

Now I've developed a pretty bad cough going into Thanksgiving break.  Hopefully no fever.  While i don't fear it, I certainly don't want it- not this close to vaccinations...

Scary.  Hopefully it's just a cold.

get tested and isolate. stay safe, Clay.

Just tested positive.  Low grade fever this early evening and a cough, maybe a little tightness in the chest.  Isolating...

Good Luck pod'ner, get well soon.

[miles]

Now I've developed a pretty bad cough going into Thanksgiving break.  Hopefully no fever.  While i don't fear it, I certainly don't want it- not this close to vaccinations...

Scary.  Hopefully it's just a cold.

get tested and isolate. stay safe, Clay.

Just tested positive.  Low grade fever this early evening and a cough, maybe a little tightness in the chest.  Isolating...

Take baby aspirin. Seriously.

[biking sailor]

Been following this thread for quite a while now, basically from it's inception. Just going to share a few of my thoughts...

I believe in trusting science, but that is different than trusting scientist. And never discount human incompetence.

Testing, same as above. They might be doing the best they can, but they are not going to be perfect.

Commercial news outlets are driven by algorithms to determine what gets them the most revenue. Their "real corporate" mission statements are not to help the public. Infotainment.

Social engineering is a real thing, not always good or bad.

So many different conflicting reports out there, so you have to determine your own risk level and use as much common sense as you can muster. Just because they say something is good right now, doesn't mean they won't change their position later. When we were told not to use masks early, there were quite a few that said "that makes no sense if you just consider friction". Put on a mask and try to blow out a candle.

Nothing is going to be 100%, but enough 20%'s combined can skews odds in your favor.

Don't let hypocrites lead you into a bad decision. They may still be right.

I've already said too much, but feel better.

[tankhead]

Zinc, Vitamin D, Vitamin C and now recently Melatonin upon the onset.  Research any and all for yourself. Cheap insurance maybe.


These should be taken daily anyway if not covid positive.


Happy Thanksgiving everyone!!

[CLAY]

WICKED cough any time I did much moving yesterday.  The fever came back at about 7:30 last night (~100).

I slept like a baby.  This morning- no fever, and the cough is much less.

[garry]

WICKED cough any time I did much moving yesterday.  The fever came back at about 7:30 last night (~100).

I slept like a baby.  This morning- no fever, and the cough is much less.

That's great to hear that you're feeling better. Any idea on who/how you got it?

[Skee]

Keeping my fingers crossed for you ... makes it hard to post though 

[CLAY]

WICKED cough any time I did much moving yesterday.  The fever came back at about 7:30 last night (~100).

I slept like a baby.  This morning- no fever, and the cough is much less.

That's great to hear that you're feeling better. Any idea on who/how you got it?

I teach middle school- we have been fully masked and observing distancing stuff all year so far.  The teachers don't even have meetings in person- all virtual.  There are no direct links, but based on the fact that now 3 of us have been out with it I'm pretty sure we have some a-symptomatic carriers in the student population.  The timing is wrong for me to have gotten it from one of the other teachers, plus I have been WAY distanced from them and masks anytime we are even in the same room.

As has been said many times, masks/distancing helps, but it's certainly not perfect.  At least that's my guess.

Keeping my fingers crossed for you ... makes it hard to post though 

   Well I appreciate the thoughts!

Since I'm in the barn anyway and feel pretty good I'm going to do some work out here for awhile.  We'll see how that goes.  I'm just not great at sitting around.

[Mrs. DantesDame]

Clay, I hope that you've reached the extent of your symptoms and you can continue to entertain us with your fun posts 



Basel (BS, city) has closed all restaurants until Dec 13th. However, Basel (BL, county) has not implemented such restrictions, even though I am about a 10 minute walk to the edge of the city. A few colleagues plan to get together tonight in BL, literally across the street from BS. While I would love to see them, and it IS just down the street from me, I'm just not comfortable with meeting up in a restaurant.

[Baxter]

WICKED cough any time I did much moving yesterday.  The fever came back at about 7:30 last night (~100).

I slept like a baby.  This morning- no fever, and the cough is much less.

That's great news!

[Baxter]

So the next big question is, when a vaccine becomes available will you take it?

On the one side we have the better living through chemistry folks, already standing in line.
On the other side, the anti-vaxxers and Bill Gates "mark of the beast / new world order / it's all part of a master plan to enslave us" believers.

I don't know, I get a flu shot every year because after having both pneumonia and the real deal influenza over the years I know that shit is not something you want to deal with. I have compromised lungs anyway so I would imagine covid would not end well for me, or maybe I'd be part of the 99.5% who showed no symptoms.

To be perfectly honest, I'm overweight, 63 years old, I have afib. and compromised lungs, I think at this point I'd go ahead and get a shot and hope I didn't grow tits or something. Better than drowning in your own fluids.

I've been thinking about your post for a few days. I tend to believe in following science when there have been properly determined standards and evidence--in other words, is the system designed to weed out assumptions or bad evidence?  Peer reviewed?  I'm also not an early adopter because the second or third try is usually superior. Nothing is perfect, but we can and do much better than guesswork.  We've already seen how nations that skipped quality control steps have had less than desirable results.  Hopefully, following accepted protocols will result in our having several good choices to pick from when vaccine production has risen enough for the general population.

As a pure guess, regular folks will have the advantage of medical, emt and law enforcement personnel being first in line for vaccination.  It's likely that this further information will be available to help guide our decision by the time my wife and I are able to discuss vaccination, and we can then compare the different vaccines to see which is right for us with our doc.  We're all going to owe an additional level of thanks to the front-line workers in addition to everything they've already done.

[miles]

^^^^^  This.

My wife works in the health care industry but does not interact with patients.  This means she is probably in the second wave of vaccinations, and I'm expecting to coattail along with her.

[PatM]

Sending positive thoughts your way Clay so that you'll get negative soon. 

I read essential staffs will get vaccinated first and then those most at risk. Age being one of the primary risk factor, us old foggies probably will get it soon.

[leeo45]

Since I'm in the barn anyway and feel pretty good I'm going to do some work out here for awhile.  We'll see how that goes.  I'm just not great at sitting around.

It is great to hear that you are feeling better.   You were undoubtedly in a riskier than average environment.

Be VERY careful about too much activity too soon.  We have a good friend who has been in the hospital three times with COVID and its aftereffects; likely in part due to trying to do too much with a still weakened body and immune system.   After this third hospitalization they are telling her that she now has stage one coronary failure due to COVID and will likely endure this for the rest of her life.    Fortunately, it should be controllable with meds, however still a bad result.   Be careful.   

[CLAY]

Since I'm in the barn anyway and feel pretty good I'm going to do some work out here for awhile.  We'll see how that goes.  I'm just not great at sitting around.

It is great to hear that you are feeling better.   You were undoubtedly in a riskier than average environment.

Be VERY careful about too much activity too soon.  We have a good friend who has been in the hospital three times with COVID and its aftereffects; likely in part due to trying to do too much with a still weakened body and immune system.   After this third hospitalization they are telling her that she now has stage one coronary failure due to COVID and will likely endure this for the rest of her life.    Fortunately, it should be controllable with meds, however still a bad result.   Be careful.

    Yeah, this post was WAY spot on.  I did fine for a couple hours, then it's like the energy just drained away.  I had to sit for 30 minutes and drink a pop (yes, a REAL soda!- not a barley pop!) and wait to get enough enrgey to end what I was doing, drag my ass back into the couch, and then I crashed out the rest of the day.

On the bright side I had NO fever last night, and actually felt prety good after nine.  I think some of it may have "broke" - some point (around 12:30 AM)- I woke up in a bit of a sweat, but feeling WAY better than I had all day.  I had NO problems falling back to sleep, and today I feel MUCH better than yesterday.  The cough has diminished some, and I'm taking it much easier.  I did bring my guitar amp up, and just carrying that thing put me out of breath for 30 minutes, but after sitting a bit I seem to be in good shape again.

I think I'm over the hump, and have been VERY fortunate.

Let's not mention this to my wife if I wake up dead tomorrow though, mmmmkay?  ;-)

[Papa Lazarou]