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Author Topic: A new Harley sport bike?  (Read 637 times)

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Offline CLAY

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A new Harley sport bike?
« on: November 05, 2019, 09:31:51 PM »
Looks like Harley is trying to get back into the "sport" bike category.  If Harley can pull it off, it sounds like it could be a sweet machine:
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Quote
Even the smaller 975cc motor that will appear first in the Bronx is targeting a peak power of more than 115 hp and in excess of 70 pound-feet of torque. The bigger 1,250cc version, which will come first to the Pan America but is also eventually destined for the firm's Streetfighter model, is aiming at more than 145 hp and over 90 pound-feet.

Linky:
https://www.cycleworld.com/harley-davidson-bronx/?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+New+Content+%28Feed%29&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook

Interesting.
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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2019, 09:47:53 PM »
I hope it's awesome.
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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2019, 11:32:18 PM »
145 horsepower?  That's like three normal Harleys added together!
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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2019, 02:06:01 AM »
I'd Hit it.

I ride a Ural and have no moral compass whatsoever though.
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Online The Artist Formerly Known As Bubbles

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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2019, 07:19:31 AM »
Looks like an XSR and I love it.
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Offline minimac

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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2019, 07:55:49 AM »
Hopefully, it won't feel so bloody top heavy.
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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2019, 08:26:27 AM »
I like the looks of it.  Sort of reminds me of a Nighthawk S.

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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2019, 08:27:34 AM »
hopefully it works out
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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2019, 09:17:38 AM »
Looks pretty cool. Nice to see HD breaking away from the '50's Burger Barn fantasies.
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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2019, 09:34:53 AM »
+1 to all of the above

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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2019, 02:06:04 PM »
WOW didn't think they had it in them, but will the "we are trapped in the old school" dealers want many of them around or support them much with the current cow glide mentality?
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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2019, 02:37:38 PM »
WOW didn't think they had it in them, but will the "we are trapped in the old school" dealers want many of them around or support them much with the current cow glide mentality?

that will be the problem, just like the Buell and the V-rod.   "But,but,but, it's not really a Harley"
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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2019, 04:01:26 PM »
Good luck HD, you'll need a lot of it.
 IMO the only hope would be in European sales.  :shrug:

But having said that, it's early, not enough info yet...
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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2019, 04:27:13 PM »


But having said that, it's early, not enough info yet...

this ^ unfortunately... it will most likely end up being 600lbs. and 80hp....
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Online Skee

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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2019, 05:03:00 PM »
WOW didn't think they had it in them, but will the "we are trapped in the old school" dealers want many of them around or support them much with the current cow glide mentality?

that will be the problem, just like the Buell and the V-rod.   "But,but,but, it's not really a Harley"

I’m sure the dealers will support it if it sells.  The question is whether the public will buy it. 

The faithful may not like it because it doesn’t look like a real motorcycle or it has a plastic fender or for some other unfathomable reason.  Newcomers may reject it because the power to weight ratio is too low for the price.   I’d take it for a ride in a heartbeat, and get back on my Versys. 

Then again, it could become the Sportster f the 21st century and launch a riding revolution. 
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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2019, 07:31:29 PM »
The adventure bike....the Pan American....will have the 1250cc engine and 145hp

The street fighter....Bronx Streetfighter....will be 975cc and 105hp

Weights not announced

Pricing not announced

Expect both engines to produce lots of torque and to have flat power bands.

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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2019, 08:26:51 PM »
My hovercraft is full of eels

Offline Baxter

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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2019, 10:57:33 PM »
I keep wanting to like a Harley.  So many people devotedly love their Harleys, what am I missing?  But there's always something specific to each new model that keeps them from my garage.  Usually it's ergonomics that do not suit me, overweight, undertechnology, or a low fun-to-price ratio.  I'll probably stop by to look it over once it's released. 

Hopefully for them this may bring new customers. 
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Offline mr.awesome

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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2019, 05:35:31 AM »
Looks like the livewire with a gasoline engine. I'd hit it.

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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2019, 06:27:24 AM »
The under-tech is not accurate. They have the best, smoothest fuel injection and most car-like proper cruise control I’ve ever ridden. The things otherwise perceived as under-tech’d are usually just that: perception, and usually in service of doing what their core buyers have always demanded: promoting and preserving the legacy.

They’ve gone as far are they should with current engine design and remaining air cooled. That’s a real challenge for them currently. So yeah, there is that.

And the challenges of satisfying new-to-Harley buyers. The biggest challenges they have there are price and perceived value and perceived lack of performance.

But 99% of that is potential-buyer expectations. Slap a passenger and a couple weeks worth of provisions on a Harley and step out for a few weeks of legal-speed travel and you’re going to have, in all likelihood, a mote enjoyable time traveling and being a tourist than doing the same on almost any sport tourer that feels way more at home and “worth it” at 90mph than any Harley ever could.... while feeling top heavy, perhaps more frenetic, perhaps boring at legal speeds, and less comfy for rider and passenger alike.

Owning a Harley is about knowing the tool for the job, or about doing the job a certain way. Rarely does an FJR or CBR owner end up loving a Harley, or vice versa.

Trust me on this. Been there.

Forgive any typos. Tiny screen. Old eyes. Early morning. I’ll edit later. This part of the topic is near and dear to me.
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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2019, 08:13:27 AM »
I guess I agree?  I've tried and tried to like them but just can't? A friend has 2 in his garage that are never more than a couple years old I have a perpetual invite to "take either one for the weekend" but still can't seem to enjoy it? sure it's the best thing I've ever ridden fro droning down the interstate but other than that I just find them to be ill handling under powered and overweight. so, perhaps you are right that someone who likes performance bikes will never buy one, which leads to the question "why are they trying to compete with performance bikes"?
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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2019, 08:35:03 AM »


Owning a Harley is about knowing the tool for the job, or about doing the job a certain way. Rarely does an FJR or CBR owner end up loving a Harley, or vice versa.



Making products for only one part of a market, especially when that part of the market is shrinking, is not a recipe for long term growth and success.  Thus, companies such as Yamaha, Honda, the other Japanese companies, and European companies such as BMW, Triumph, Moto Guzzi, and even Ducati have over time brought out products to appeal to buyers outside their core clientele.  Cruisers and Adventure bikes have become big sellers for many of these companies.

However, HD has (mostly) ignored this reality and has been seemingly content to dominate in one segment of the market.  But (possibly) no more.  The Pan American, the Streetfighter, the Livewire are hints that someone at HD has realized that they can’t stick to doing things the same old way, and then expect things to change.  I applaud them for doing this.  No matter how good or how successful these new products may be, it’s still a turn in the right direction.  Will it be too little or too late to turn the ship around?  Only time will tell.  But at least someone is trying.  Can they get the “faithful” and, even more important, the dealers to accept and embrace these additions?  Doubtful, IMO.  But one can hope.

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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2019, 08:40:14 AM »
Skee I have to disagree with your statement " I'm sure the dealers will support them " . My experience with numerous HD dealers is they want the old school ,traditional thing ,and thats still in big time in the 6 local to me dealers when I stopped and talked with them about the coming new wave of products. They were very aloof about them ,and I know a lot of these people for years as I am a former Harley rider ( 1975 to 2000). A lot of them are stubborn,they will take the minimum number and relegate them to a obscure corner of the shop. They don't seem to believe they need to change. A mystifying and perplexing attitude.
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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2019, 09:25:49 AM »
Making products for only one part of a market, especially when that part of the market is shrinking, is not a recipe for long term growth and success.

I didn't say it was. To be clear, I'm not defending it. It's just that I understand it.

I'm no longer a Harley owner, though the XR1200, the new Street Rod, and these new bikes could definitely be heralds of a new or broader way of thinking for them, and I could easily swing back over that way. Using my Harleys for their (mostly) intended purposes, I rarely found anything that did the job better. Touring was a complete and utter joy on the 'Glide. Grocery getting was great. General running around. All of that took major work, concessions, or compromise on pretty much every other bike I've owned. Even things like stuffing a bag of groceries into a 'Glide's side bags sounds like a trivial thing; it was more work on EVERY other bike. Even if only by silly small degrees. But it all adds up.

These days - blown out back and fake knees, I don't wanna heft around a 800+lb beast or deal with anything too tall, so big-boy Harleys and most ST bikes are just off my radar now. I live in the compromise. I miss the sport(ier) bikes. I miss my touring rig. I get by.

Those who want a track scalpel would be silly to buy a Harley of any type.
Those who want to tour for weeks at a time would be silly to ignore a Harley when shopping and comparing.

That's really all I'm saying.
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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2019, 09:56:38 AM »
I don't want this to be argumentative, but my statement about Harley's being under-teched isn't based on stereotypes. I know they're not dumb, after all they fuel injected their entire lineup before Honda.  Three examples:

A lot of their models have spoked wheels.  They use an old fashioned design that requires tubed tires.  Tubed tires are at a greater risk of sudden decompression and are incompatible with plug kits.  Some European manufacturers have figured out how to make a spoked wheel with a solid rim, thus running tubeless tires. Harley could choose to do this but have not done so.

They have gone to heroic engineering lengths to keep using air cooled engines that meet modern pollution requirements. Yet a friend who's a devoted Harley rider acknowledged that on hot days his Geezer-Glide (a term he affectionately uses) can't keep up with liquid cooled bikes.  I find it difficult to believe that the most powerful marketing team in the industry can't convince their core riders that more power is worth the switch to liquid cooling.

The Sporty lineup still has 5-speed transmissions.  Most models of the direct competitor Indian Scout have six gears. The Scout is also liquid cooled.

These are the types of things that keep me from buying a Harley.  They also keep me from buying a bunch of other bikes as well.  Everything's a compromise, so I just pick the compromises that I can best live with.  And Harley riders must find that these are issues which they can best live with.

Edit:  I don't want it to sound that I think only Harley is behind the times.  I've had two Kawis, and to pick on them, they have introduced models that were obsolete when introduced, and some have not seen meaningful tech updates for decades.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 11:33:54 AM by Baxter »
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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2019, 10:04:15 AM »
Tour?   Possibly, although I’d guess that Goldwing, BMW LT, and other owners might disagree.

But SPORT tour......nah, no way

As for going grocery shopping and running errands....a scooter is probably a much better choice from a practical standpoint, and there are lots of people on adventure bikes and other bikes with hard bags that seem to get the job done very nicely and easily.

 ;D

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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2019, 10:26:28 AM »
As for going grocery shopping and running errands....a scooter is probably a much better choice from a practical standpoint

Scooters are just straight up amazing for practicality. Shame they have such a bad rap with "real" motorcyclists. :(
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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2019, 10:39:54 AM »
As for going grocery shopping and running errands....a scooter is probably a much better choice from a practical standpoint

Scooters are just straight up amazing for practicality. Shame they have such a bad rap with "real" motorcyclists. :(

Agreed.....I’ve found them to be a whole lot of fun!

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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2019, 11:20:48 AM »
As for going grocery shopping and running errands....a scooter is probably a much better choice from a practical standpoint

Scooters are just straight up amazing for practicality. Shame they have such a bad rap with "real" motorcyclists. :(

You mean like the DN-01?
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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2019, 11:40:24 AM »
As for going grocery shopping and running errands....a scooter is probably a much better choice from a practical standpoint

Scooters are just straight up amazing for practicality. Shame they have such a bad rap with "real" motorcyclists. :(

You mean like the DN-01?

Oh, there's zero built in storage there. Which sucks. For that they make top cases.
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Offline Baxter

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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2019, 11:45:22 AM »
As for going grocery shopping and running errands....a scooter is probably a much better choice from a practical standpoint

Scooters are just straight up amazing for practicality. Shame they have such a bad rap with "real" motorcyclists. :(

I wave to scooter riders. 

They've had a bad rap for a very long time.  About 25 to 30 years ago a stand-up comedian had a routine about a French motor-scooter gang.  I can't remember the comedian's name anymore. Most of the jokes played off of the obvious lack of intimidation factor.
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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2019, 01:39:39 PM »
The Sporty lineup still has 5-speed transmissions.  Most models of the direct competitor Indian Scout have six gears. The Scout is also liquid cooled.
The Scouts with 5 speeds have the same low and high gears - they simply skipped the what was 5th gear of the 6 speeds.
The Scouts are also 4 valves / cyl.

H-D has an even more direct competitor now that the Indian Challenger is coming out.
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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2019, 01:47:23 PM »
Also, the number of gear ratios available becomes less important when the torque curve is flatter; few things have a flatter torque curve than a big bore low revving twin.

Most bikes of that configuration don't need more gears; they just need to breathe better.
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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2019, 01:49:33 PM »
As for going grocery shopping and running errands....a scooter is probably a much better choice from a practical standpoint

Scooters are just straight up amazing for practicality. Shame they have such a bad rap with "real" motorcyclists. :(

I wave to scooter riders. 

They've had a bad rap for a very long time.  About 25 to 30 years ago a stand-up comedian had a routine about a French motor-scooter gang.  I can't remember the comedian's name anymore. Most of the jokes played off of the obvious lack of intimidation factor.

Brings back memories of the “Mods” and “Rockers”.
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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2019, 02:37:23 PM »
A lot of them are stubborn,they will take the minimum number and relegate them to a obscure corner of the shop. They don't seem to believe they need to change. A mystifying and perplexing attitude.

Dealers are the ones who are seeing firsthand the effects of the demographic changes hitting Harley-Davidson. Five consecutive years of negative sales growth and no end in sight (unless these new bikes can turn the ship). The company has stayed profitable by shutting down a plant and hiring more temp workers, but the dealers can't stay profitable with steadily declining sales.

There will be two kinds of dealers: The ones who embrace change and the ones who stay stubborn in their perplexing attitude, as you so correctly describe, and either slowly go broke or go out of business.

Another take on the Revolution Max engine: https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/harley-gives-a-first-glimpse-at-new-revolution-max-engine
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Offline vfrmike

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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2019, 05:37:14 PM »
xr1200 comes to mind and we all know how successful that one was.

Offline Baxter

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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2019, 07:29:22 PM »
xr1200 comes to mind and we all know how successful that one was.

That was the most comfortable Harley I ever sat on.  Probably should have taken it for a test ride. But I wasn't looking to buy at the time and didn't want to put miles on a bike that wasn't a designated demonstrator just for fun.
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Offline Bryan.VFR

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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #37 on: November 08, 2019, 07:12:04 AM »
It's nice to Harley stepping out of their comfort zone. As has been said, if they want to stick around, they need to broaden their market.

As for these bikes, I'm not sure how I feel about the styling on the adventure one. The jury is still out. But I do like the streetfighter, and I'm not a huge fan of category. But it looks right.

I'm sure your typical Harley tourer is great for putting on the miles. When I went to Americade a number of years ago, a good majority of the bikes there were Harleys. What turns me off, besides the old school styling, is the vibration. This may not be typical, but from what I saw, when stopped at idle for a red light or whatever, there was a lot of vibration on the Harleys. The handlebars were bouncing and even the rear license plate took a little extra concentration to read because it was shaking like a leaf in a storm. Personally, I don't see how that would be comfortable.


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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #38 on: November 08, 2019, 07:26:46 AM »
Think of it like an shopping mall massage chair with wheels.  Personally, I'm kind of excited by the concept of a Harley Streetfighter.
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but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.   Vincent van Gogh

Offline vfrmike

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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #39 on: November 08, 2019, 08:29:19 AM »
xr1200 comes to mind and we all know how successful that one was.

That was the most comfortable Harley I ever sat on.  Probably should have taken it for a test ride. But I wasn't looking to buy at the time and didn't want to put miles on a bike that wasn't a designated demonstrator just for fun.

Yep only Harley I've ever liked but the sport bike buyer is not going to resurrect Harley....still would like an xr.

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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #40 on: November 10, 2019, 07:53:07 PM »
Resurrect Harley? Reality is difficult for you isn't it?

So many said for so long "Harley needs to do something different." Well they do just that and those same people poo poo that.


                                                                     


BTW we moved $100K worth of motorcycles out the door.......today. Off season in a depressed market.
sometimes WTF is the appropriate answer

Offline jimmy

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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #41 on: November 10, 2019, 09:04:25 PM »


BTW we moved $100K worth of motorcycles out the door.......today. Off season in a depressed market.

I find Harley a fascinating business model.

I'd love to know how many of the machines moved out the door were financed by Harley vs. those that were not

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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #42 on: November 10, 2019, 09:37:51 PM »
That’s the modern manufacturing sales and finance model.  Don’t blame HD.

It’s how you end up $45k upside down on a $27k auto (trending WSJ story).
The fishermen know that the sea is dangerous and the storm terrible,
but they have never found these dangers sufficient reason for remaining ashore.   Vincent van Gogh

Online thatguy

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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #43 on: November 11, 2019, 08:40:55 AM »


BTW we moved $100K worth of motorcycles out the door.......today. Off season in a depressed market.

I find Harley a fascinating business model.

I'd love to know how many of the machines moved out the door were financed by Harley vs. those that were not

Not sure but I do know the $44K CVO was paid for via AMEX Black Card. :D
sometimes WTF is the appropriate answer

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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #44 on: November 11, 2019, 09:13:53 AM »
So three bikes...? Four? Not making a joke; seriously curious about which models.
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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #45 on: November 11, 2019, 09:44:43 AM »
So three bikes...? Four? Not making a joke; seriously curious about which models.
2 bikes
A whole bunch of accessories, jackets, boots, T shirts, coolers, snuggies, panties, posters, clocks, toilet seat covers, door mats...
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A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #46 on: November 11, 2019, 09:48:11 AM »
2 bikes
A whole bunch of accessories, jackets, boots, T shirts, coolers, snuggies, panties, posters, clocks, toilet seat covers, door mats...

Nice!
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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #47 on: November 11, 2019, 11:34:56 AM »
2 bikes
A whole bunch of accessories, jackets, boots, T shirts, coolers, snuggies, panties, posters, clocks, toilet seat covers, door mats...

Nice!

Harley is onto something with the lifestyle marketing.  It must be working because they have such intense brand loyalty.  It puts even the Ducati and BMW folks to shame.

I have Kawi and Honda "free" t-shirts that came with the bike, and one Kawi sweatshirt and one Honda t-shirt that were separately purchased.  But I had a friend (since passed) who bought a Sporty. He also bought head-to-toe H-D gear and also general H-D clothing. He did the same when he bought a Porsche.  He usually wore one brand or the other when bar-hopping on Fridays after work.  I'm sure it made him happy, but does everything you wear need to have a product logo on it?

I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.  --Douglas Adams

Online thatguy

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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #48 on: November 11, 2019, 12:33:18 PM »
So three bikes...? Four? Not making a joke; seriously curious about which models.

Three. All Touring. It's actually a tick or two over $100K but since Harley's going out of business what's a few grand?
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Re: A new Harley sport bike?
« Reply #49 on: November 11, 2019, 12:58:27 PM »
I think I will look at the HD Adventure bike when it comes out, the video got me interested.
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