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Online RBEmerson

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FJR driving lights
« on: October 26, 2019, 11:01:41 PM »
Having recently had a combination religious moment and "tighty whitey" check moment, thanks to a deer in the middle of the road, I want driving lights!
What uses LED's and floods the road without being flashed by oncoming traffic? Mounting location suggestions? Photos?
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Online Bounce

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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2019, 09:57:28 AM »
If you want to SEE (as opposed to just being seen) then driving lights are desirable. You want a strong pencil beam to reach out as far as possible for more reaction time. Wide beams are filler lights and don't reach far. Lights down by the wheels or on the forks are marker lights that fill and help other see you but have little benefit in seeing things with enough time to react.

Mount high so you can see as far down the road as possible. Mount wide for better binocular lighting of objects out there. Search around for brackets that are strong enough to support the weight of the lights you choose. LD communities have these sources nailed, so haunt where those people are that ride your brand and model.

High. Wide. Pencil beam. Big lumens.

With that in mind, I have used lots of different options as the tech changed. From strong H4s to HID and now LEDs. This company knows their motorcycle lights.

https://www.clearwaterlights.com/products/krista

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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2019, 11:43:26 AM »
In a by-gone era, I had a Connie C10 with driving lights maybe 12-18" of the road. They helped with spotting unevenness in the road. And not much more.

The goal here is to see Bambi instead of shaking hands as I go by (BTW, that's no joke - the deer stood still in the road and I passed close enough to make out the wrinkles on its nose). The FJR's lights are, IMHO, well into the very bright range. Unfortunately the beam is too diffuse. I estimate the pattern is too short somewhere around 50 mph. After that, it just doesn't look far enough ahead.

Aside: more and more, I'm coming to the realization that, even if I was on fire, too many drivers wouldn't notice it. In some cases, notably drivers running/ignoring red lights, even a 360 degree laser show wouldn't matter. Lights for safety only... meh.

OTOH, riding murdered out strikes me as very unwise. I regret my '17 approaches that look. I suppose I should play the lottery so I can afford to repaint the bike in obnoxious yellow. Even my red and blue Roadcrafter doesn't do much at night, when red turns almost black in low light. Hmmm... maybe I should adapt a laser level to sit on my helmet.
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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2019, 11:52:57 AM »
Just south of $600? Eek! OTOH, a wrecked me and wrecked bike is kinda spendy...
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Online bungie4

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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2019, 11:54:37 AM »
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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2019, 01:54:46 PM »
Mount 'em up off the mirrors and use some good LED lamps.  My preferred option?  Had them on my ST1300 and they'll be going on the Trophy now.


https://www.amazon.com/Hella-H71020401-Optilux-Cube-Driving/dp/B01H0YL7EG
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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2019, 02:22:31 PM »
Mount 'em up off the mirrors and use some good LED lamps.  My preferred option?  Had them on my ST1300 and they'll be going on the Trophy now.

https://www.amazon.com/Hella-H71020401-Optilux-Cube-Driving/dp/B01H0YL7EG
Weird, Hella doesn't list these or anything like them. Is this a pencil beam? How did you mount them on your mirror assembly?

Sure would be nice to see more samples of mounts. Clearwater has a nice mounting kit for use on the tupperware, but ~$600? Ouch!
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Online sleazy rider

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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2019, 04:31:02 PM »
Mount 'em up off the mirrors and use some good LED lamps.  My preferred option?  Had them on my ST1300 and they'll be going on the Trophy now.

https://www.amazon.com/Hella-H71020401-Optilux-Cube-Driving/dp/B01H0YL7EG
Weird, Hella doesn't list these or anything like them. Is this a pencil beam? How did you mount them on your mirror assembly?

Sure would be nice to see more samples of mounts. Clearwater has a nice mounting kit for use on the tupperware, but ~$600? Ouch!


Not quite a pencil, but it does throw light a long ways down the road.  I ordered two sets by mistake and ended up selling a set to Clay.  On the ST1300, I used the police light mounts above the mirrors.  They're not a heavy light, which helps on mount stress.


Apparently, they renamed the lights.  New name and link ->[size=78%]https://www.autoanything.com/lights/77A12680A4461322.aspx?kc=GOOGADW&DZID=PLA_g_1776971643_74555093252_12680-4461322_c&utm_source=g&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=1776971643&utm_content=74555093252&utm_product=12680-4461322&gclid=Cj0KCQjwgNXtBRC6ARIsAIPP7Rt6G1fXvJ8yE_JwAJErVx6QliPXHkyQ8GetU1oSTv9-t0kb_Ypp_xoaAiyCEALw_wcB[/size]


https://www.realtimeindustries.com/yamaha-fjr1300-light-mounts/ . Might work on yours, but verify.
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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2019, 09:22:37 PM »
I have had good results with both Baja Designs and VisionX lights.    They are not cheap, but not quite as expensive as the Clearwater option.    Both brands have bright, smaller lights made for motorcycles that come in a narrow, spot pattern.    A reasonably high mounting location will provide much better illumination down the road and smaller profile lights work better for that IMO.  (especially if you don't have all of the crash bars and protuberances of a large adventure bike)

.....  What uses LED's and floods the road without being flashed by oncoming traffic? Mounting location suggestions? Photos?

There is no such thing as a really bright, long distance light that will not blind oncoming traffic.   It would be theoretically possible to design optics with a hard cutoff to the left, however that would leave half the road dark which is not what you need.   It would also only work on a perfectly straight highway.    You just need to turn off the artificial sunlight for oncoming vehicles.   

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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2019, 11:37:11 PM »
Mount 'em up off the mirrors and use some good LED lamps.  My preferred option?  Had them on my ST1300 and they'll be going on the Trophy now.

https://www.amazon.com/Hella-H71020401-Optilux-Cube-Driving/dp/B01H0YL7EG
Weird, Hella doesn't list these or anything like them. Is this a pencil beam? How did you mount them on your mirror assembly?

Sure would be nice to see more samples of mounts. Clearwater has a nice mounting kit for use on the tupperware, but ~$600? Ouch!



Not quite a pencil, but it does throw light a long ways down the road.  I ordered two sets by mistake and ended up selling a set to Clay.  On the ST1300, I used the police light mounts above the mirrors.  They're not a heavy light, which helps on mount stress.


Apparently, they renamed the lights.  New name and link ->[size=78%]https://www.autoanything.com/lights/77A12680A4461322.aspx?kc=GOOGADW&DZID=PLA_g_1776971643_74555093252_12680-4461322_c&utm_source=g&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=1776971643&utm_content=74555093252&utm_product=12680-4461322&gclid=Cj0KCQjwgNXtBRC6ARIsAIPP7Rt6G1fXvJ8yE_JwAJErVx6QliPXHkyQ8GetU1oSTv9-t0kb_Ypp_xoaAiyCEALw_wcB[/size]


https://www.realtimeindustries.com/yamaha-fjr1300-light-mounts/ . Might work on yours, but verify.
I finally found the pencil version of this light. http://www.myhellalights.com/index.php/products/auxiliary-lamps/led/valuefit-cube-4-led-kits/
They list on Amazon for $79, kit of two lights. The spec says brightness is about 690 lumens. By comparison, Krista's claim 3000 lumens. How 690 lumens works out in terms of useful range becomes an open question.

According to Google, if a light is rated in candlepower, divide that by 12.57 to convert to lumens. Or a jillion candlepower looks a little skinny when converted to lumens. Let's see, a jillion divided by 12.57, carry the three and divide the remainder by pi r squared and... ARGH! ;)
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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2019, 11:38:30 PM »
I have had good results with both Baja Designs and VisionX lights.    They are not cheap, but not quite as expensive as the Clearwater option.    Both brands have bright, smaller lights made for motorcycles that come in a narrow, spot pattern.    A reasonably high mounting location will provide much better illumination down the road and smaller profile lights work better for that IMO.  (especially if you don't have all of the crash bars and protuberances of a large adventure bike)

.....  What uses LED's and floods the road without being flashed by oncoming traffic? Mounting location suggestions? Photos?

There is no such thing as a really bright, long distance light that will not blind oncoming traffic.   It would be theoretically possible to design optics with a hard cutoff to the left, however that would leave half the road dark which is not what you need.   It would also only work on a perfectly straight highway.    You just need to turn off the artificial sunlight for oncoming vehicles.
Gotit. TNX.
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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2019, 11:55:12 PM »
The more I look around, the less I'm impressed with 690 lumens. Typical numbers from other lights are in four digits. I can see an argument for a (relatively) low power pencil beam in circumstances where there's enough traffic to require shortening the range of eyeball searing light. OTOH, if the goal is to get down the road at Interstate speeds (or more), overrunning the beam makes the lower power a waste of time. Unfortunately, without a side by side comparison, this is all hypothetical.
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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2019, 01:26:08 AM »
The other reason you may want to consider a very narrow beam for your wildlife avoidance application is all of the retro-reflective signs which are present on almost every highway these days.   If driving lights are really bright and more than about 20 degrees in beam width the light coming back at you from a sign can be blinding.  It makes it difficult to see past the nearest sign and it also ruins any pretense of night vision.   

Also, because of the way most LED driving lights are designed, they tend to scatter light worse than good halogen or HID lights.   Cheap LEDs tend to be really bad about light scatter, so this makes the problem even worse.

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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2019, 09:40:20 AM »
Good point about reflecting signs. More than once I've almost dropped my sun visor to deal with this problem.

I'm not so sure LED's scatter more than halogen or HID lamps. For all three, scatter is mostly a matter of the reflector and lens (if any) design. FWIW I'm not sold on the idea that hotter or higher Kelvin ratings, shifting blue-wards, project further than cooler, warmer, light. IMHO

LED's have the advantage of projecting their output (without optics) over a 180 deg. arc, while anything with a filament or arc in gas puts light out over 360 deg.
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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2019, 10:39:13 AM »
You're right, 690 lumens is good enough to be seen but not much else.
Look for dimmable LEDs. The kind that lets you adjust the brightness for oncomming traffic and switches to really bright when you switch your highbeams on.
Also, amber removable lenses increase your visibility during daytime.

Clearwater lights is good stuff but I agree, they're kind of expensive. I got Darlas from them because they integrate with my bikes Canbus system and the wonder wheel. They've been very reliable so far, 3 years and 75k km and counting. I've had PIAA LEDs in the past and they failed after about 2 years.

I've also done business with these guys in the past: http://stores.advmonster.com/light-kits/



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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2019, 11:17:43 AM »
I like the Model 55 - it seems to be a nice pairing of pencil and flood. And 3K lumens is a goodly number.  :)
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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2019, 02:23:07 PM »
 :shrug:  I don't know how them other manufacturers are measuring lumens, but these light are damn good, especially for under $100.  This photo is a set of LED headlights on normal and the Hellas for comparison. 



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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2019, 02:53:23 PM »
Lumens are measured with a lumenmeter, of course. LOL

The best check is to find a straight road and see how far down the road someone gets before the light's insufficient. The hard part is measuring the distance. I guess a 25' or 50' moved down the road is as good a solution as any. Unless there's a golf rangefinder handy.

Shining against a garage door doesn't say much more than the light's on.  :)
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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2019, 09:46:54 AM »
In a by-gone era, I had a Connie C10 with driving lights maybe 12-18" of the road. They helped with spotting unevenness in the road. And not much more.

The goal here is to see Bambi instead of shaking hands as I go by (BTW, that's no joke - the deer stood still in the road and I passed close enough to make out the wrinkles on its nose). The FJR's lights are, IMHO, well into the very bright range. Unfortunately the beam is too diffuse. I estimate the pattern is too short somewhere around 50 mph. After that, it just doesn't look far enough ahead.


High,. wide, pencil beams. You can also adjust the OEM headlights to better serve your needs.

http://www.fjr1300.info/howto/headlight.html

Once you have the mechanicals down, then how to set up your "site" for proper target heights is the same as for other vehicles.

Skip straight to the TARGET HEIGHT section on this page.

http://www.fjr-tips.org/sti/hla/hla.html

You don't want to go cheap on these kinds of lights. They short change you in lumens, color temp, and focus. LEDRider has a lot of various options as does Clearwater. Do some window shopping with the idea that a cooked-and-served-up deer that has been heat-blasted by your riding lights before you get close to it is your objective. Color temp is important because blueish tints to output can mask debris in the road. If the color is accomplished with a tint added to the glass of the bulb then lumens are lost to the coating before they ever get out of the bulb.

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/blue/bad/bad.html

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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2019, 03:28:11 PM »
[/ ...]

High,. wide, pencil beams. You can also adjust the OEM headlights to better serve your needs.

http://www.fjr1300.info/howto/headlight.html

Gen III makes moving the lights up and down much easier. There are knobs in (more or less) plain sight.

Quote
Once you have the mechanicals down, then how to set up your "site" for proper target heights is the same as for other vehicles.

Skip straight to the TARGET HEIGHT section on this page.

http://www.fjr-tips.org/sti/hla/hla.html

I'm lost on this step. Mark the garage door or whatever. Got that part. I missed why, for the article's sake, am I doing that? Seems to me the best place to twiddle those magic knobs is on the road.

Thinking about knob twiddling a bit, I might even be able to get away with raising the throttle-side light while leaving the clutch-side light down. Or not. I'll test this on the road.

Quote
You don't want to go cheap on these kinds of lights. They short change you in lumens, color temp, and focus. LEDRider has a lot of various options as does Clearwater. Do some window shopping with the idea that a cooked-and-served-up deer that has been heat-blasted by your riding lights before you get close to it is your objective. Color temp is important because blueish tints to output can mask debris in the road. If the color is accomplished with a tint added to the glass of the bulb then lumens are lost to the coating before they ever get out of the bulb.

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/blue/bad/bad.html


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(forget the damn kid!)

Now you love him on the road!

As always, there's a point between "paid a lot for the name" and "found at the Walmart outlet store".

Blue lighting can look very cool (literally) in some instances, mostly it's "you want to be in Fast and Furious 37 - Revenge of the Great Grandson of the Bald Guy". Good point about "why the sky is blue" and blue lighting. Anyway, my HID's in previous cars and bikes are/were ~3800K.
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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2019, 10:39:18 AM »
[/ ...]

High,. wide, pencil beams. You can also adjust the OEM headlights to better serve your needs.

http://www.fjr1300.info/howto/headlight.html

Gen III makes moving the lights up and down much easier. There are knobs in (more or less) plain sight.


I think that started with Gen 2's but the process is the same.

Quote
Quote
Once you have the mechanicals down, then how to set up your "site" for proper target heights is the same as for other vehicles.

Skip straight to the TARGET HEIGHT section on this page.

http://www.fjr-tips.org/sti/hla/hla.html

I'm lost on this step. Mark the garage door or whatever. Got that part. I missed why, for the article's sake, am I doing that? Seems to me the best place to twiddle those magic knobs is on the road.


Because it's a static test at dealerships and based on DOT standards. When using this method you are sure you're not going to blind oncoming traffic. Note that, with aux lights, don't do that. Adjust your headlights as above but your driving aux lights like you're suggesting (for maximum reach given you'll not be running them in traffic).

Quote
Thinking about knob twiddling a bit, I might even be able to get away with raising the throttle-side light while leaving the clutch-side light down. Or not. I'll test this on the road.


I agree... for aux driving lights.

Quote
Quote
You don't want to go cheap on these kinds of lights. They short change you in lumens, color temp, and focus. LEDRider has a lot of various options as does Clearwater. Do some window shopping with the idea that a cooked-and-served-up deer that has been heat-blasted by your riding lights before you get close to it is your objective. Color temp is important because blueish tints to output can mask debris in the road. If the color is accomplished with a tint added to the glass of the bulb then lumens are lost to the coating before they ever get out of the bulb.

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/blue/bad/bad.html


Daniel Stern... You loved him in Home Alone...
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(forget the damn kid!)

Now you love him on the road!

As always, there's a point between "paid a lot for the name" and "found at the Walmart outlet store".

Blue lighting can look very cool (literally) in some instances, mostly it's "you want to be in Fast and Furious 37 - Revenge of the Great Grandson of the Bald Guy". Good point about "why the sky is blue" and blue lighting. Anyway, my HID's in previous cars and bikes are/were ~3800K.


I find that I'm in agreement with many before me that color temps in the wrong range can actually mask debris in the road because of how our eyes process different colors. I've personally experienced it when trying to use after market H4 bulbs and choosing wrong.

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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2019, 11:16:24 AM »
 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

At least in Germany (I suspect most if not all of EU-land) there's a headlight adjuster to deal with rear end squat for cars. The few times I've tried tweaking the headlights, I've regretted it. I passed on tweaking the FJR knobs for the same reason. Time to mark the knobs, so I can return to the original setting, and then go hog wild.
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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2019, 11:51:15 AM »
I loved that my FJR had dual and independent headlight adjustments. I kept the left one lower and the right one up and out a tinch more so that when I switched to high beams, I had a better chance of seeing road-side Bambi without blinding people 9 miles down the road. As noted, those beams could definitely make use of some focus tweaks, but they were hella bright and expansive. I loved that bike, stem to stern, lighting included.
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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2019, 12:16:48 PM »
That's my plan for the moment. I really want to do my IBA Saddlesore 1000 next week or before I'll have driving lights installed (resolving analysis paralysis, shipping, planning installation). Tweaking the aiming is my big option here.
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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2019, 11:06:30 AM »
Just remember that driving lights can be turned off if aimed effectively; OEM headlights can't (and are a ticket-able offense).

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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2019, 01:36:25 PM »
Gee, Officer LEO, I didn't know they're not aimed right. I'll go to the shop tomorrow and get 'em aimed for sure! LOL
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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #26 on: November 02, 2019, 10:33:26 AM »
So blinding the operator of a death machine coming right at you is cool?

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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2019, 11:54:43 AM »
Good grief, no! That was purely being silly.

Your summary is spot (no light humor intended) on.

FWIW I'm in the middle of upgrading the headlights on our VW van. LED's and the Euro headlight lens pattern (sharp cutoff and more road lighting). The van doesn't go on the road at night until the heads are properly aimed, not just pointed at the garage door and tweaked. Four wheels or two, blinding on-coming traffic is dumb. And dangerous.
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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2019, 09:03:44 AM »
It was a hard lesson I learned from those who taught me.

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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2019, 07:16:46 PM »
The LED lamps for my VW are DOA - the H4 adapters are a 100% fail (nothing to keep LED element in the adapter, short of fully re-engineering the lamp/adapter assembly. Sigh... In place of a return, the seller offered me a third of the price and I get to keep the d*** things. Guess who's about to get a negative on eBay. Grrr...
Are you part of the solution or part of the precipitate?

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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2019, 12:10:47 PM »
The LED lamps for my VW are DOA - the H4 adapters are a 100% fail (nothing to keep LED element in the adapter, short of fully re-engineering the lamp/adapter assembly. Sigh... In place of a return, the seller offered me a third of the price and I get to keep the d*** things. Guess who's about to get a negative on eBay. Grrr...


Screw that.  Ship them back to him and demand a refund from Paypal for defective merchandise.
--Tom

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Re: FJR driving lights
« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2019, 08:00:32 PM »
I got the refund. NTL grrrr...
Are you part of the solution or part of the precipitate?