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Author Topic: 'Natural' Wine  (Read 1304 times)

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Online viffergyrl

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'Natural' Wine
« on: November 12, 2017, 06:23:44 PM »
Anybody given this a try? As in drinking some, not making some. From what I can glean it is wine made with minimum technology and wild yeasts. Grapes can be organic or biodynamic. No sulfites (sulphites for Papa) added. Unfiltered.

Go!
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Offline Jim

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Re: 'Natural' Wine
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2017, 10:30:24 PM »
Does this include the thermos of grape juice I forgot about in my locker in 4th grade for three months?    :nuts:
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Online oilhed

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Re: 'Natural' Wine
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2017, 08:27:35 AM »
Anybody given this a try? As in drinking some, not making some. From what I can glean it is wine made with minimum technology and wild yeasts. Grapes can be organic or biodynamic. No sulfites (sulphites for Papa) added. Unfiltered.

Go!

I have Italian friend who do this all the time. They buy frozen juice from Chile in a six gal. bucket. Thaw & ferment. Transfer to glass 2 or 3 times to remove dead yeast & organic solids.  Bottle & serve. 
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Online viffergyrl

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Re: 'Natural' Wine
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2017, 10:15:32 AM »
Anybody given this a try? As in drinking some, not making some. From what I can glean it is wine made with minimum technology and wild yeasts. Grapes can be organic or biodynamic. No sulfites (sulphites for Papa) added. Unfiltered.

Go!


I have Italian friend who do this all the time. They buy frozen juice from Chile in a six gal. bucket. Thaw & ferment. Transfer to glass 2 or 3 times to remove dead yeast & organic solids.  Bottle & serve.


Yeah that's the idea except there are vintners trying to do the same thing and selling it to the public. Raw wine is another term apparently.

Here's the article that piqued my interest:

https://www.bonappetit.com/story/what-is-natural-wine

Here's a local shop in LA: http://www.louwineshop.com/

It seems to fit with the raw food, vegan, etc. movement, I guess. I'm more interested in wine without sulfites and funky yeast beasties doing the work.
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Online Skee

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Re: 'Natural' Wine
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2017, 06:58:16 PM »
We will drink no wine before it’s bottled.  ( My motto)

I’m not sure what we’ve tried is true natural wine.  Have tried unfiltered organic sulfite free wines.  None of them were all that good. 

Post up if you find something good.  I’d be interested to know. 

Online viffergyrl

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Re: 'Natural' Wine
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2017, 07:09:39 PM »
We will drink no wine before it’s bottled.  ( My motto)

I’m not sure what we’ve tried is true natural wine.  Have tried unfiltered organic sulfite free wines.  None of them were all that good. 

Post up if you find something good.  I’d be interested to know.

Will do!
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Offline RBEmerson

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Re: 'Natural' Wine
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2017, 11:20:55 AM »
About a month age we spent two weeks in the NY Finger Lakes, in part following wine trails.

"Wild" fermentation is... what? not quite common, but not rare, either. Wine that isn't fined or filtered is less common but it's around, too. I don't recall how often we met a wine without sulfites, but, in general, sulfite levels are far lower than in the "bad old days" - IMHO sulfites is non-issue except related to cellaring wine. Many vineyards are moving away from spraying "methyl ethyl bad s**t". Typically we met wines made with some of these choices but I don't recall tasting "all of the above".

Wine Spectator occasionally says, either in a opinion piece (IIRC most recently one from Matt Kramer) or Dr. Vinny: expand your horizons. Don't drink just the old favorites over and over. As a winemaker said to us, "don't get wine blind". Sample some of the "natural" wines. Any winery may produce stuff scoring below 80 (questionable as even table "plonk") but I found 3-4 90's and a 91 in the non-library offerings (my scoring). If you don't try it, you won't know.

FWIW The Finger Lakes AVA is highly competitive in the US and even the international arena. There are, of course, lots of rieslings and other whites. But there are a variety of reds, including sevapai (Ukrainian) and (can't spell it) from... Siberia. There are also hybrids from Cornell. Once upon a time the area was all about Taylor and Great Western and Mogen David. Not now. And the tasting fees are killer bargains.

I don't think we got above $7, most flights were 5-6, and splitting a flight was no problem. I'm big on dry whites, Chris is big on reds. Between us, we covered a lot of ground and didn't get legless (nobody spits). Some people know wine, some people were just pouring what was on the sheet. (By comparison, a winery near us, D'Allo, charges $10, no splitting, and you have to try all ten ...uh... products from a good cab franc to icky blueberry whatever. Both people pouring knew the name of what they poured and that was about it. Brix? Nah. Residual sugar? Nah. Fermenting? Tanks. We ordered a glass each of what were likely to be winners and brought home the cab franc. Otherwise, BTDT don't like wine stains on t-shirt.)

We did two tours: Dr. Konstantin Frank - glad we went, but not a lot of depth, except we sampled some "green" wine, which was v. instructive. The other was at Fox Run - a major hit with the tour by the owner and a pairing lunch that was fantastic. Tasting high water mark: Fox Run and Lamoureux Landing, low water mark: Americana with Glenora close behind.

Hint: the big liquor store in Watkins Glen (east end of town) carries a lot of what's in the wineries and often at lower prices. Usually you have to buy "the really, really, really good stuff" at the winery. NTL we found some good bargains, including a few of reds currently sleeping in our racks, and some rieslings and pinot gris/grigios waiting for next summer. If not sooner.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 11:31:48 AM by RBEmerson »
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Online oilhed

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Re: 'Natural' Wine
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2017, 11:58:05 AM »
We go to the FLX about once a year.  I don't like dry reds.  But we also go for the REAL hard cider too.  A lot of that is wild fermented.  Sometimes wines & ciders contain sulfates but they are not added so the levels are much lower.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 07:26:31 AM by oilhed »
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Offline RBEmerson

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Re: 'Natural' Wine
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2017, 08:22:14 PM »
FLX (either Finger Lakes or a Harley model ID - can't figure out which) also has tasting rooms for hard cider, beer, and outright spirits. And even cheese. Woohoo!

Unfined and unfiltered rieslings (maybe chards, etc., too) can do something surprising if served too cold. Little white grains or clumps appear at the bottom of the glass. Potassium bitartrate precipitates and falls to the bottom of the glass. It's harmless. It's used in cooking. It's cream of tartar. Potassium bitartrate is a by-product of winemaking. It can be filtered out. But if it shows up at the bottom of your glass, give the wine a few minutes to warm up a bit. The cream of tartar won't go away, but the wine will be more ...um... expressive. It's like a beer that's just above freezing: cold fizzy stuff with no real taste.
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Online Skee

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Re: 'Natural' Wine
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2017, 09:08:48 PM »
Natural Wine explained - more or less

The sticking point for me is whether wine fermented with a starter culture can be considered truly natural. 

Offline RBEmerson

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Re: 'Natural' Wine
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2017, 05:13:25 PM »
What the heck do I know? NTL I think natural wines made with cultured yeast, no matter how exalted the source may be, are like "sort of pregnant". Or "natural or natural not, there is no partly."

The point about lack of identifiable terroir is a good one. Why should natural wine making erase that ...what?... essence of a wine? If I were feeling really snotty or snobbish, I'd say that if a natural wine maker can't compete with a whatever non-natural wine is, come back when you can. In the interim, the wine may taste good, but so can a good gelato from the local supermarket. It's OK, I'd consume it again, but I know it's never going to be excellent. And looking for moments of excellence are what wine should be about.
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Online viffergyrl

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Re: 'Natural' Wine
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2017, 05:21:00 PM »
So my original question was - has anybody tried any?

If the answer is 'No', I'm good with that. I think you would know if you did.
Don't argue with an idiot; people might not know the difference. -Anonymous

Offline kneescrubber

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Re: 'Natural' Wine
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2017, 09:31:16 PM »
No.

Are you (or think you are) sulfite sensitive? Or is this just an exercise promoting all things organic? I'm all in for that btw.  ;)
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Online oilhed

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Re: 'Natural' Wine
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2017, 09:04:05 AM »
So my original question was - has anybody tried any?

If the answer is 'No', I'm good with that. I think you would know if you did.

No, but I am more a cider fan than a wine fan.  And I have tried and have also made Natural (or wild fermented) cider.

Sorry if that's too much information.  BTW I really enjoyed this discussion.
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Re: 'Natural' Wine
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2017, 10:02:55 AM »
Yes I've appreciated most of the input myself.
Don't argue with an idiot; people might not know the difference. -Anonymous