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Offline FJR1300

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Move Over For Flashing Lights
« on: December 15, 2013, 02:03:39 PM »
Remember to slow down and move over when you see flashing lights on the side of the road. It's the law in Missouri, but unfortunately it wasn't in Ohio when this occurred. The injured Trooper had only been on the job for three weeks and was forced to retire because of the injuries he sustained in this incident.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10202689361345623&l=6357873746653911847

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Offline Royal Tiger

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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2013, 02:40:55 PM »
Facebook is blocked at work so I can't view it.  Having almost been hit numerous times I can only too well imagine what occurred.  Best wishes for that young trooper and his family.
~Dan

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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2013, 03:30:53 PM »
Very sad.
That's the law in Ontario as well, though it's routinely ignored.  :nuts:
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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2013, 03:55:04 PM »
I thought it was the law all over north America.  :headscratch:
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Offline Royal Tiger

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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2013, 03:55:55 PM »
Very sad.
That's the law in Ontario as well, though it's routinely ignored.  :nuts:

It's the law here in PA too, but you'd never know it.

I think it was Ohio that used to set up fake traffic stops and stop people that had room to move over but didn't.  I'm ok with just educating people on it rather then cite them unless it was reckless.
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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2013, 04:05:43 PM »
Law or no law, I always pull over in favour of emergency vehicles. Always.
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Offline Royal Tiger

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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2013, 04:12:29 PM »
Law or no law, I always pull over in favour of emergency vehicles. Always.

Not to the right when they come up behind, but moving left when they are on the side of the road.  Or the exact opposite where you live.  :D
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Offline falconati

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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2013, 04:16:28 PM »
I thought it was the law all over north America.  :headscratch:

Same, I can't imagine not moving over.  Sad story.

Offline I'm NOT Carl

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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2013, 05:00:47 PM »
Heck, I move over if I generally see a car flashers. The guy might be changing a tire.

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Offline CLAY

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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2013, 07:50:20 PM »
I thought it was the law all over north America.  :headscratch:

Same, I can't imagine not moving over.  Sad story.

^That.  That video makes me a bit sick.
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Offline M.Brane

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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2013, 07:50:39 PM »
 Working on the roadways is dangerous. It's one reason why I've transferred to a rural area. Fuck those freeways. People are stupid.

 There are stupid people on the secondary roads too, but a lot less of them by default. You can't ever let your guard down.

Offline Justin

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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2013, 05:20:12 PM »
So recently, I had to attend a defensive driving class to get a ticket reduced. I got in a minor argument with the instructor, who was a retired CO state trooper. It started with me saying something about if I was pulled over on a freeway, I would proceed to the next exit and not pull over on the side of a busy road. He said I should pull over immediately and allow the officer to decide where he wants me to stop. I said I was sorry, but I'd rather risk a pissed off officer, than having myself or anyone else killed on the side of the road. I've seen too many people killed on the side of the freeway, flashing lights and all. I will not stop on a highway. Simple.

Just curious what our LEO members think on this subject?

In addition, I always move over, AND, slow down for emergency vehicles on the side of the road.
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Offline giaka

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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2013, 05:27:26 PM »
So recently, I had to attend a defensive driving class to get a ticket reduced. I got in a minor argument with the instructor, who was a retired CO state trooper. It started with me saying something about if I was pulled over on a freeway, I would proceed to the next exit and not pull over on the side of a busy road. He said I should pull over immediately and allow the officer to decide where he wants me to stop. I said I was sorry, but I'd rather risk a pissed off officer, than having myself or anyone else killed on the side of the road. I've seen too many people killed on the side of the freeway, flashing lights and all. I will not stop on a highway. Simple.

Just curious what our LEO members think on this subject?

In addition, I always move over, AND, slow down for emergency vehicles on the side of the road.

I might piss off a LEO but I would NEVER pull over in the car pool or fast lane shoulder. That's just fucking stupid. I would move to the right and pull off as far as possible on the right.
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Offline Justin

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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2013, 05:33:12 PM »
I might piss off a LEO but I would NEVER pull over in the car pool or fast lane shoulder. That's just fucking stupid. I would move to the right and pull off as far as possible on the right.

Pulling over on the left of the road will pretty much guarantee you're getting a ticket.
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Offline Royal Tiger

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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2013, 06:29:04 PM »
I can understand your point Justin, but it won't go over well.  The officer decides on the location for a multitude of reasons that might not be apparent to you at the time.  I know it always pisses me off if the person takes me on a tour.  I also don't stop cars on interstates.  It's taken awhile, but officers are finally doing passenger side approaches.  Much safer. 
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Offline Justin

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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2013, 07:20:54 PM »
I understand the reasons RT, but my life is more important than a happy cop. I'm the only person I trust making life or death decisions for myself. I will stop when I feel it's safe to do so. So far I've not encountered a Leo that was a dick about it.

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Offline Royal Tiger

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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2013, 07:43:53 PM »
In the northeast or around major cities it can be tough with traffic and there are usually lots if exits.  Are you saying if you were in Kansas where it's 15 miles to the next exit you'd keep driving?

Also the likelyhood of being struck on a traffic stop for the officer is very small.  The vehicle he stopped is shielded by his car so you are far far more likely to die slipping in your tub then being hit while pulled over. 
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Offline Jim

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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2013, 08:09:14 PM »
Prove me right or wrong...

If an officer is behind with lights, the need is to pull right and get out of their way... If they pull in behind they wish to speak. Pulling right and stopping is priority 1 (within reason [the grey area]). Now, if the location stopped at does not suffice for the person who is being spoken to by the officer, it is my belief (thus the prove me right or wrong) that the person being spoken to may wish to remain in their vehicle for their safety.

If the officer has grounds to arrest or detain - the officer's choice rules. If damage to the person happens after being commanded by the officer, the state is responsible. Yes, the goal is to not be "damaged" in the first place and one would hope there could be some mutual ground between the officer and person to find a safe location.
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Offline Royal Tiger

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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2013, 08:25:11 PM »
No.  The officer can order you in and out of your vehicle as many times as they deem necessary per SCOTUS.  In general I want you in your car.  I never understood why in the southeast US they have this thing for having the occupants step out. 
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Offline Justin

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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2013, 08:58:41 PM »
In the northeast or around major cities it can be tough with traffic and there are usually lots if exits.  Are you saying if you were in Kansas where it's 15 miles to the next exit you'd keep driving?

Also the likelyhood of being struck on a traffic stop for the officer is very small.  The vehicle he stopped is shielded by his car so you are far far more likely to die slipping in your tub then being hit while pulled over.

Places like Kansas and here in CO, you are not going to have to go more than a mile before you find someplace "safe" to pull off the road. It doesn't have to be an exit, it just needs to be someplace where I am not sitting on the shoulder of the road. But, bottom line is I will keep moving until I find a place that "I" feel is safe.

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Offline Justin

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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2013, 09:01:00 PM »
No.  The officer can order you in and out of your vehicle as many times as they deem necessary per SCOTUS.  In general I want you in your car.  I never understood why in the southeast US they have this thing for having the occupants step out.

Do you have a link to that ruling? I do not believe you can be forced out of your vehicle for a non criminal violation. In CO, most traffic stops are traffic code, not criminal code.
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Offline Royal Tiger

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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2013, 09:53:43 PM »
No.  The officer can order you in and out of your vehicle as many times as they deem necessary per SCOTUS.  In general I want you in your car.  I never understood why in the southeast US they have this thing for having the occupants step out.


Do you have a link to that ruling? I do not believe you can be forced out of your vehicle for a non criminal violation. In CO, most traffic stops are traffic code, not criminal code.


And you'd be incorrect.  Do you really think I make this stuff up? :lol: (EDIT - I forgot to add the little laughing guy to show I'm joshin' ya a bit Justin.  :D)

Pennsylvania V Mimms allows a police officer to order a driver out whenever he deems necessary.  The ambiguity came over passengers.  Maryland V Wilson addressed passengers and SCOTUS ruled it does.  Chief Justice Rehnquist wrote the opinion.

This is what I found after a search of Maryland V Wilson:
http://www.policeone.com/legal/articles/1287043-Supreme-Court-say-officers-can-control-passengers-on-traffic-stops/
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Offline Justin

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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2013, 10:17:44 PM »
No.  The officer can order you in and out of your vehicle as many times as they deem necessary per SCOTUS.  In general I want you in your car.  I never understood why in the southeast US they have this thing for having the occupants step out.


Do you have a link to that ruling? I do not believe you can be forced out of your vehicle for a non criminal violation. In CO, most traffic stops are traffic code, not criminal code.


And you'd be incorrect.  Do you really think I make this stuff up? :lol: (EDIT - I forgot to add the little laughing guy to show I'm joshin' ya a bit Justin.  :D)

Pennsylvania V Mimms allows a police officer to order a driver out whenever he deems necessary.  The ambiguity came over passengers.  Maryland V Wilson addressed passengers and SCOTUS ruled it does.  Chief Justice Rehnquist wrote the opinion.

This is what I found after a search of Maryland V Wilson:
http://www.policeone.com/legal/articles/1287043-Supreme-Court-say-officers-can-control-passengers-on-traffic-stops/


Yup, I concede I was wrong, and I find that unilateral power being handed to officers very scary. And, just another reason I won't stop on a highway. Because, I am sure not exiting my vehicle on a busy hwy.
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Offline Royal Tiger

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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2013, 10:23:23 PM »
No.  The officer can order you in and out of your vehicle as many times as they deem necessary per SCOTUS.  In general I want you in your car.  I never understood why in the southeast US they have this thing for having the occupants step out.


Do you have a link to that ruling? I do not believe you can be forced out of your vehicle for a non criminal violation. In CO, most traffic stops are traffic code, not criminal code.


And you'd be incorrect.  Do you really think I make this stuff up? :lol: (EDIT - I forgot to add the little laughing guy to show I'm joshin' ya a bit Justin.  :D)

Pennsylvania V Mimms allows a police officer to order a driver out whenever he deems necessary.  The ambiguity came over passengers.  Maryland V Wilson addressed passengers and SCOTUS ruled it does.  Chief Justice Rehnquist wrote the opinion.

This is what I found after a search of Maryland V Wilson:
http://www.policeone.com/legal/articles/1287043-Supreme-Court-say-officers-can-control-passengers-on-traffic-stops/


Yup, I concede I was wrong, and I find that unilateral power being handed to officers very scary. And, just another reason I won't stop on a highway. Because, I am sure not exiting my vehicle on a busy hwy.


Yeah it's sooooooo scary.  You didn't even know it exists so it most likely hasn't happened to you.  I have rarely needed it in 18 years so far.  And Mimms dates back to the 1970's.  Much ado over nothing.
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Offline Justin

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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2013, 10:33:09 PM »
Yeah it's sooooooo scary.  You didn't even know it exists so it most likely hasn't happened to you.  I have rarely needed it in 18 years so far.  And Mimms dates back to the 1970's.  Much ado over nothing.

Nope, I did not know it exists, and to date I've never been asked to exit my vehicle. I dun learnt something new today. Don't take it personal, nothing against you - I just find being stripped of free will and the ability to make choices for one's self to be scary. I can understand in a criminal stop, but not for a traffic code stop. For the record, in case it wasn't obvious, I'm a little nutty when it comes to personal rights and liberties.
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Offline Royal Tiger

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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2013, 10:48:49 PM »
As am I.  It's a tool, and like all tools should be used in the manner it's prescribed and not abused. 
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Offline Jim

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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2013, 10:53:50 PM »
RT - thx for the info and link

Now to look at the ball from the other side of it... Car stalls / breaks down on the same undesirable highway. No officer involved. Plain mechanical issue. What're you going to do? Get out and open hood/try to fix the issue or sit in the car and call a tow truck that will tow you away with you still in the car? You/we accept this as a possibility for every roadway we decide to travel upon.

Granted, an officer deciding to pull us over is a different reason to be on the side of the road, but the breakdown scenario does exist.
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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2013, 07:08:43 AM »
 :popcorn:


The breakdown issue isn't the same situation at all. 


The funny thing is, after a few ladies get pulled over by a pretend cop the story on the news that night will be the police spokesman at the podium telling people that if they see lights behind them they should pull over in an area they feel is safe and public enough for their own safety.  They go so far as to tell you to call the popo while you're doing it and let dispatch know that you are just looking for a safe spot to pull over.




Now back to the flashing lights....can you dim those damn things?  Out here where there are zero street lamps on 90% of the roads and very little light pollution it gets f*cking dark at night.  I'm surprised more people don't get hit just by being blinded by the car's lights.

Offline FJR1300

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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2013, 07:21:44 AM »
It's taken awhile, but officers are finally doing passenger side approaches.  Much safer.

That's the only way I approach a vehicle now, unless it's a big truck.

I really like making a passenger side approach at night. I walk behind my patrol vehicle and I keep my flashlight off. The occupants of the vehicle I've stopped are usually very surprised when I tap on the passenger window.

Offline Royal Tiger

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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2013, 08:57:21 AM »
It's taken awhile, but officers are finally doing passenger side approaches.  Much safer.

That's the only way I approach a vehicle now, unless it's a big truck.

I really like making a passenger side approach at night. I walk behind my patrol vehicle and I keep my flashlight off. The occupants of the vehicle I've stopped are usually very surprised when I tap on the passenger window.

Exactly!  I tap the glass and they spin around like WTF!  :lol:
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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2013, 09:06:31 AM »
The fact that they have no idea where you are probably means they are lost in their own world anyway.

Offline chornbe

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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2013, 09:16:07 AM »
Remember to slow down and move over when you see flashing lights on the side of the road. It's the law in Missouri, but unfortunately it wasn't in Ohio when this occurred. The injured Trooper had only been on the job for three weeks and was forced to retire because of the injuries he sustained in this incident.

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Offline Justin

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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2013, 10:21:18 AM »
It's taken awhile, but officers are finally doing passenger side approaches.  Much safer.

That's the only way I approach a vehicle now, unless it's a big truck.

I really like making a passenger side approach at night. I walk behind my patrol vehicle and I keep my flashlight off. The occupants of the vehicle I've stopped are usually very surprised when I tap on the passenger window with the muzzle of my shotgun.

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Offline Royal Tiger

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Re: Move Over For Flashing Lights
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2013, 12:55:25 PM »
It's taken awhile, but officers are finally doing passenger side approaches.  Much safer.

That's the only way I approach a vehicle now, unless it's a big truck.

I really like making a passenger side approach at night. I walk behind my patrol vehicle and I keep my flashlight off. The occupants of the vehicle I've stopped are usually very surprised when I tap on the passenger window with the muzzle of my shotgun.

fxt

:lol:


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