Car shopping and the CVT

[Cablebandit]

That's what I figured...hence the head-scratch.

[2RR2NV]

yes. my bad. was trying to get my few minutes of surfing in before heading out and didn't take a REAL good look at the pic. still, very nice truck.

[Vulcanbill]

Thread revival:

The Subi has been a great car.  Recently had a noise in the left front end when accelerating at full lock.  Only ever presented in parking lots but I still wanted to have it checked out.  Both of us being off work for the move was the perfect opportunity. 

I took it in, described the problem and waited.  They called me and asked if I could replicate it for the tech.  Sure.  Here it is.  Oh.  They thought it was the axle so they ordered one and sent me on my way.  Few days later they call and we take the car in.  Kim took it in and I showed up later to pick her up.  By the time I got there, they'd already replaced the axle but that didn't fix the noise.  It's all under warranty so I don't care.  They gave us, ironically, a Mazda CX-5 as a loaner and we did the move with that instead.  I picked up the car the other day and they ended up replacing the transmission and both front axles.  The guy estimated that if this had been a paid service, it would have been about $8500 dollars.  zoinks.  He said it's a small problem but it's making itself known. 

While my mileage is definitely high for a one year old car, it's almost exclusively highway miles so I can't imagine what went wrong w/ axles or transmission.  Odd. 

However, the service experience at the Mazda / Subaru place in Winchester VA was exceptional.  Zero cost, great communication, loaner car w/out question from a place that I DIDN'T buy the car, and just generally friendly and efficient service.  Now, if history repeats itself, something will go wrong soon that I do have to pay for since I just got it out of the shop and I will again question all things service related.   

[Bounce]

What year/model?

[Vulcanbill]

What year/model?

'14 Crosstrek. 

[Slartibartfast]

What year/model?

'14 Crosstrek.

Have you driven that car on snow or ice covered roads?

[Vulcanbill]

What year/model?

'14 Crosstrek.

Have you driven that car on snow or ice covered roads?

I took it out once to see how it would do.  I suppose it did fine but the electronics, even in their version of turned off, prevented any real driving.  Very annoying.  My commute is so long that if there's snow, I don't even bother.  But if you're asking for mechanical issues maybe related to snow or ice, no.  It's seen very little of either.

[Slartibartfast]

What year/model?

'14 Crosstrek.

Have you driven that car on snow or ice covered roads?

I took it out once to see how it would do.  I suppose it did fine but the electronics, even in their version of turned off, prevented any real driving.  Very annoying.  My commute is so long that if there's snow, I don't even bother.  But if you're asking for mechanical issues maybe related to snow or ice, no.  It's seen very little of either.

Lucky you. After a couple of Canuck winters with our '13 Crosstrek and some lengthy discussions with the dealer (as well as several sessions in the service bay) I will never own this model again. There's something very wrong with the car, and not just our car, the entire run, at least all the ones delivered to my area. The car is unstable in low traction conditions at anything above about 30 mph.

It took quite a lot of pissing and moaning to get the dealership to even consider listening to my complaints ("you need snow tires", you're just over correcting", etc) so I finally had enough and bullied the manager into coming for a drive with me on a snowy day (car equipped with Michelin X-Ice snow tires) and let him drive it himself. He was shocked. Then we went back and jumped into a brand new model. Same problem. Suddenly I was no longer an idiot. We hopped into another one and it was the same. All three cars feel like they're trying to swap ends in slippy stuff. If you lock the wheel against your knee the car will fishtail a bit down the road with absolutely no wheel input. The faster you go there pronounced the effect.

This is the only model to exhibit this behaviour (we have a Forester that is absolutely fantastic in snow and rock steady at any speed, even with all-season tires) and Subaru has yet to even acknowledge the problem but more and more owners are starting to complain.

We will be dealing the XV before next winter.

[Vulcanbill]

What year/model?

'14 Crosstrek.

Have you driven that car on snow or ice covered roads?

I took it out once to see how it would do.  I suppose it did fine but the electronics, even in their version of turned off, prevented any real driving.  Very annoying.  My commute is so long that if there's snow, I don't even bother.  But if you're asking for mechanical issues maybe related to snow or ice, no.  It's seen very little of either.

Lucky you. After a couple of Canuck winters with our '13 Crosstrek and some lengthy discussions with the dealer (as well as several sessions in the service bay) I will never own this model again. There's something very wrong with the car, and not just our car, the entire run, at least all the ones delivered to my area. The car is unstable in low traction conditions at anything above about 30 mph.

It took quite a lot of pissing and moaning to get the dealership to even consider listening to my complaints ("you need snow tires", you're just over correcting", etc) so I finally had enough and bullied the manager into coming for a drive with me on a snowy day (car equipped with Michelin X-Ice snow tires) and let him drive it himself. He was shocked. Then we went back and jumped into a brand new model. Same problem. Suddenly I was no longer an idiot. We hopped into another one and it was the same. All three cars feel like they're trying to swap ends in slippy stuff. If you lock the wheel against your knee the car will fishtail a bit down the road with absolutely no wheel input. The faster you go there pronounced the effect.

This is the only model to exhibit this behaviour (we have a Forester that is absolutely fantastic in snow and rock steady at any speed, even with all-season tires) and Subaru has yet to even acknowledge the problem but more and more owners are starting to complain.

We will be dealing the XV before next winter.

Huh....  I attributed it to the electronics just taking away control.  I haven't really pushed the car enough to find out who did or did not do what.  I assumed that all cars with intrusive stability control systems were like that.  And apparently, if you pull the fuse, you can't take the car out of gear w/out a screwdriver...  Whatever.  I have a truck.  I'll kill this car before I pay it off at the rate I'm going anyway. 

[Slartibartfast]

What year/model?

'14 Crosstrek.

Have you driven that car on snow or ice covered roads?

I took it out once to see how it would do.  I suppose it did fine but the electronics, even in their version of turned off, prevented any real driving.  Very annoying.  My commute is so long that if there's snow, I don't even bother.  But if you're asking for mechanical issues maybe related to snow or ice, no.  It's seen very little of either.

Lucky you. After a couple of Canuck winters with our '13 Crosstrek and some lengthy discussions with the dealer (as well as several sessions in the service bay) I will never own this model again. There's something very wrong with the car, and not just our car, the entire run, at least all the ones delivered to my area. The car is unstable in low traction conditions at anything above about 30 mph.

It took quite a lot of pissing and moaning to get the dealership to even consider listening to my complaints ("you need snow tires", you're just over correcting", etc) so I finally had enough and bullied the manager into coming for a drive with me on a snowy day (car equipped with Michelin X-Ice snow tires) and let him drive it himself. He was shocked. Then we went back and jumped into a brand new model. Same problem. Suddenly I was no longer an idiot. We hopped into another one and it was the same. All three cars feel like they're trying to swap ends in slippy stuff. If you lock the wheel against your knee the car will fishtail a bit down the road with absolutely no wheel input. The faster you go there pronounced the effect.

This is the only model to exhibit this behaviour (we have a Forester that is absolutely fantastic in snow and rock steady at any speed, even with all-season tires) and Subaru has yet to even acknowledge the problem but more and more owners are starting to complain.

We will be dealing the XV before next winter.

Huh....  I attributed it to the electronics just taking away control.  I haven't really pushed the car enough to find out who did or did not do what.  I assumed that all cars with intrusive stability control systems were like that.  And apparently, if you pull the fuse, you can't take the car out of gear w/out a screwdriver...  Whatever.  I have a truck.  I'll kill this car before I pay it off at the rate I'm going anyway. 

I would have probably thought the same thing if I hadn't had the Forester to compare it with. Same systems, completely different behaviour. It is annoying not being able to power through a 4-wheel drift as the damned nanny-ware tries to straighten you out, but I don't believe that system has anything to do with the instability.
It's too bad, we really like the car otherwise, but it's just a hairball in the winter.
We've pounded a lot of miles into it as well... Maybe parking it on the railway track is the best solution.

[Vulcanbill]

apparently there are lot of folks who have installed a bypass switch that dumps the whole system for times when it's needed.  I might look into that.  I might be ok with it on the road and during regular driving but snow getting to the big roads or my freaking driveway, which is a small rally course, I'd like it turned off please.  maybe I can find someone to do that.  otherwise, the car is a bit of a hoot.  I just like the ~30mpg w/ AWD.  Not easy to come by.

[Black Hills]

apparently there are lot of folks who have installed a bypass switch that dumps the whole system for times when it's needed.  I might look into that.  I might be ok with it on the road and during regular driving but snow getting to the big roads or my freaking driveway, which is a small rally course, I'd like it turned off please.  maybe I can find someone to do that.  otherwise, the car is a bit of a hoot.  I just like the ~30mpg w/ AWD.  Not easy to come by.

not sure if it that easy, I checked into it on my '11 RAM 1500 and there are a couple systems at work. they pitch/yaw sensor is the one that takes over and you can't simply shut it off, you would have to switch it to a series of resistors to fool it in to thinking all was well?  according to the Chrysler tech anyway? I would love to have a "regular" truck off road.

[Vulcanbill]

apparently there are lot of folks who have installed a bypass switch that dumps the whole system for times when it's needed.  I might look into that.  I might be ok with it on the road and during regular driving but snow getting to the big roads or my freaking driveway, which is a small rally course, I'd like it turned off please.  maybe I can find someone to do that.  otherwise, the car is a bit of a hoot.  I just like the ~30mpg w/ AWD.  Not easy to come by.

not sure if it that easy, I checked into it on my '11 RAM 1500 and there are a couple systems at work. they pitch/yaw sensor is the one that takes over and you can't simply shut it off, you would have to switch it to a series of resistors to fool it in to thinking all was well?  according to the Chrysler tech anyway? I would love to have a "regular" truck off road.

i read that the only thing it kicks off is a false trans temp light.  Otherwise, it seems that it is that simple.  However, if you don't do the right steps in the right order, the system will actually come back on even w/ the fuse disabled.  Creepy.

I'm pretty OK with the dodge version.  The nanny will at least let you get sideways up to about 5500 RPM then she'll shut you down.  Just enough to get a nice step out on cold salty roads but not quite enough to do the same on warm dry roads.  Nothing like having the nanny snap your tail end back into position before you wanted her to.  I have words about her. 

[Vulcanbill]

Hello 100,000 miles

Goodbye warranty

[chornbe]

Hello 100,000 miles

Goodbye warranty

w00t ! / ?

[Vulcanbill]

130K this morning. Changing over to the 9/80 schedule at work saved me quite a few miles I guess. 

Still going strong.  No issues.  Occasionally, the airbag light will come on and the sensor will indicate the passenger bag is off when someone is actually in the seat but it resets when you restart the car.  Apparently that's a fairly common Subaru thing.  Otherwise, nothing to report except an abundance of start / go / stop.  The AWD is priceless on my driveway. 

Carry on.

[Cablebandit]

The airbag light is a feature on Subarus.   

The good thing is they thought enough to not use a bulb and instead used an LED so it will never burn out.    I took the instrument cluster apart and added black electrical tape on the backside of the cluster to solve the problem.

[Bounce]

Odd... the STi has a button to turn off the nanny. 3 settings: default, sorta on, off.

[Vulcanbill]

For that money, there better be a way to tap into that performance.  If I bought a car like the STI and couldn't get to all the power or potential, I'd have a freakin FIT. 

[Vulcanbill]

Aaaaaaaand 150K

[CLAY]

My wife has a '15 CRV AWD with CVT- she's at 55K and no problems.

Even after a couple years of having it, when I accelerate it still feels like I'm losing the tranny.

[Virginian]

I have a Mitsubishi Outlander with a CVT, only 22k with zero problems. 4 cyl weed whacker motor, seats 7, load of cargo room. Love it!

[Vulcanbill]

My wife has a '15 CRV AWD with CVT- she's at 55K and no problems.

Even after a couple years of having it, when I accelerate it still feels like I'm losing the tranny.

Yeah, that sound is just not natural.  I've found that the fix for that is the radio. 

Since I'm changing the oil every 6 weeks, the value of the filter on the top of the motor combined w/ the Femoto valve I've installed making for a 10 min oil change makes any perception of the CVT being weird totally go away.  I absolutely LOVE the location of the oil filter.  The path to get to the eyebrow lights and the fog lights?  notsomuch

[Bounce]

After the 03 WRX and the 08 STi, the EFI, non-turbo, Impreza 5-door hatch with CVT gets better mpg but accelerates like a dog turd. Well, probably like normal A to B drivers think is normal.

Meanwhile, since Subaru has let the STi go stale since 2008 and has been updating the WRX all this time so that the gap is smaller and the price difference less easy to justify... No STi any more. Now a new 2017 Audi RS3. Less drama than the STi but more HP delivered effortlessly. "You want 'all that'? Okay. Ho hum. Next?" No CVT on this thing. Manual transmission with automatic, dual clutch. You think it's automatic but button choices change the shift points or you can go flappy paddles, there are subtle differences in how it feels that let you know it's not a slushbox.

[miles]

My wife has a '15 CRV AWD with CVT- she's at 55K and no problems.

Even after a couple years of having it, when I accelerate it still feels like I'm losing the tranny.

To me it sounds and feels like a slipping clutch.  My wife's CVT car is almost ten years old now, so I've had time to get used to it.

[squeezer]

My wife has a '15 CRV AWD with CVT- she's at 55K and no problems.

Even after a couple years of having it, when I accelerate it still feels like I'm losing the tranny.

To me it sounds and feels like a slipping clutch.  My wife's CVT car is almost ten years old now, so I've had time to get used to it.

That's exactly what my wife's CVT (Subaru Forester) feels like to me. After 3 years, I'm not used to it yet.

[Vulcanbill]

it's quirky but after 150K miles, it's proven it's function.  It works.  It will pull me up the hills at a perfectly acceptable clip and it bops along a 75-80 w/out issue...I hear.  I still think it sounds terrible but until it starts smoking and stops moving, I'm good with it.  That's partly why I keep posting up mileage markers.  "Look, it's still going"

[miles]

We have two cars with CVTs, and both are nearing the 200K mileage mark with absolutely zero transmission issues of any kind. 

The tech is solid.

[Vulcanbill]

aaaaaaaand 160K

[Bounce]

Got a used 13 Impreza wagon (NA). Hate the CVT. I've driven loaners of the same age without CVT and they are much peppier.

[bungie4]

Well I guess all CVT's aren't shit. Just the ones in Kia's, Chryslers, Nissans, Fords, Subaru's, Toyota's, Mitsubishi's, Honda's oh hell. Go look for yourselves.

Glad your experiences differ though.

[PatM]

I have an '18 Subie with a CVT, I agree, it's different...
It's not as smooth as a real auto trans and it's not quite a manual.
The fake shifting points are sometimes disconcerting but I wouldn't want to do without them.
The shift paddles are a great conversation starter, but in real life they're useless.
 
But, you get used to it. No big deal. 

[Vulcanbill]

170K on Monday

[miles]

I have an '18 Subie with a CVT, I agree, it's different...
It's not as smooth as a real auto trans and it's not quite a manual.
The fake shifting points are sometimes disconcerting but I wouldn't want to do without them.
The shift paddles are a great conversation starter, but in real life they're useless.
 
But, you get used to it. No big deal. 

I think it's funny how they've added fake shift point in some cars with CVTs.  Neither of my CVT cars have them.

[Vulcanbill]

180K

[Bounce]

OTOH the dual-clutch auto-shifting manual in my Audi RS3 is the tits except when the anti-slip traction control fights with the ground-pounding hp trying to get to the pavement. Either ease in to the first few feet before punching it or turn off TC.

[miles]

Heh.  My little Nissan Frontier RWD never has any problems with any sort of anti-slip.  With all the rain we've been having here I've had plenty of practice accelerating very, very smoothly so as to not active the unlimited-slip differential.

[zer0netgain]

All I can offer is this....do your research.

The CVT is notorious for being a bad idea, BUT some manufacturers make it work.  Toyota is one company whose CVTs hold up with no issues.

I've not been fond of Subaru because of those I know who own one, there were lots of maintenance issues that simply should not exist in this day and age of technological achievement and engineering.  I don't think you should pay over $20K for any car only to need expensive repairs or maintenance work every couple of years when competitors make engines without those issues.

[Bounce]

All I can offer is this....do your research.

The CVT is notorious for being a bad idea, BUT some manufacturers make it work.  Toyota is one company whose CVTs hold up with no issues.

I've not been fond of Subaru because of those I know who own one, there were lots of maintenance issues that simply should not exist in this day and age of technological achievement and engineering.  I don't think you should pay over $20K for any car only to need expensive repairs or maintenance work every couple of years when competitors make engines without those issues.

I guess we're lucky. 2003 WRX, 2008 STi, 2013 Imprezza hatch. No issues except for the recent (covered) recall.

On the issue of traction control issues (heh). I suspect the difference between your Nissan and my RS3 is that the RS3 is putting much more HP/Tq to the ground (I had to look it up... 2.7 times as much) so that, as the power breaks loose the AWD from the line, the TC kicks in and fights back. It's a learning curve. If you're going to hoon, then you need to set up the drive modes right. When you're driving something that doesn't hoon then that doesn't come into play.

[coho]

Nothing increases the speed, durability, off road prowess and general hoonability of a vehicle better than rental papers in the console.

[Andrew]

Nothing increases the speed, durability, off road prowess and general hoonability of a vehicle better than rental papers in the console.

Did you buy the added insurance?? if so Game ON!!

[miles]

On the issue of traction control issues (heh). I suspect the difference between your Nissan and my RS3 is that the RS3 is putting much more HP/Tq to the ground (I had to look it up... 2.7 times as much) so that, as the power breaks loose the AWD from the line, the TC kicks in and fights back. It's a learning curve. If you're going to hoon, then you need to set up the drive modes right. When you're driving something that doesn't hoon then that doesn't come into play.

Of course, the other issue is that my Nissan doesn't have even the tiniest hint of traction control at all, and very little weight on the drive wheels.  I can step the back out any time I want, and if the roads are wet I can spin a back wheel all day long.

[PatM]

I got a letter from Subaru the other day, they're now extending the warranty on the CVT to 10 years.
No major issues with my second Subaru or or the other five that were owned at one time or another in my family.

[Vulcanbill]

I've only ever owned more than one of any brand of car and that was a Volvo.  The Subaru might very well be the next vehicle where I choose to buy a second one.  I'd prefer to have an STI or at least a mildly build WRX but I'd probably only buy a hatchback which is good cuz I could only afford a used one anyway.  But trying to find a little old lady church going STI will be tough.   

[Bounce]

With the changes to the WRX over the years (and juxtaposed stagnation of the STi) the premium for the STi isn't justified from 2008 and onward. The new model year (2019) may see a limited run (read even costlier) STi that's been lightly breathed on. The problem is that they are frozen in carbonite with their opposed 4 when they could drop in an opposed 6 and create more room for growth. The limited run higher-output STi is still under 400hp while costing as much as its competitors that are often more than 400hp.

Overall I've been happy with our Subies (2003 wrx, 2008 sti, 2013 impreza hatch) as have been my wife's sister's family (forester, etc.). But I would lean toward their yoots or NA sedans now-a-days.

[Vulcanbill]

It begins, as was inevitable...

I was driving to work Monday or Tuesday and the car started "shifting" when it shouldn't.  Nothing stupid, just didn't need that downshift but it was there anyway.  I moved to the right lane and waited.  Dashboard goes Christmas tree on me.  Hill hold assist, ABS, TCS, check engine, AT Trans Temp and cruise control lights all come on with the last 2 flashing.  OK.  Nothing is red and I can live without all the nanny crap anyway.  Found someone w/ an ODBII reader at work and got a "TCC Pressure Control Solenoid circuit low" code.  Did a little research.  It's not pretty.  Cleared the codes but then it threw them again on the way home.  Took the car in yesterday and I called today to find out its a 1500 dollar job.  Ouch.  The car has nearly 182K miles and I've literally put 500 dollars into repairs in all that time.  So, amortized over the life of the car, it's not terrible.  Just sucks that it's tax time and we just dropped a bunch of money on a fence and skid steer rental.  Whatever.  It's not 22K in taxes owed.  I'm not a huge fan of paying dealer prices but they've always been awesome and we got a brand new Forester w/ 72 miles as a loaner, no questions. 

Funny part.  None of our vehicles have any of this intelligent crap so when Kim started driving this Forester with all the new stuff activated, she freaked out.  The car was trying to steer for her, then it hit the brakes when she didn't want it to and then it died at the stoplight.  She was certain it was demon possessed and wanted to kill it.  Listening to her tell the story, I nearly peed.  She's clever tho.  She figured out how to turn some of it off and I'm sure she'll turn the rest of before embarking on her day today.  Still funny. 

[Vulcanbill]

190k. AC is out. I suffer.

[Baxter]

The car was trying to steer for her, then it hit the brakes when she didn't want it to and then it died at the stoplight.  She was certain it was demon possessed and wanted to kill it.

A friend had this stuff on her SUV, and deactivated it when she was trying to teach her son to drive.  Essentially, she came to see that the car's trying to take control meant that her son was having to fight the car.  She thought the safety features would likely cause him to crash, and they also were counterproductive with teaching him how to control the car.

[Vulcanbill]

205K miles.  Changed the oil last night.  5...maybe 7 minutes.  Transmission still makes noise.  Car still goes.  Kim cleaned out the inside.  Freaked me out. 

[miles]

It begins, as was inevitable...

I was driving to work Monday or Tuesday and the car started "shifting" when it shouldn't.  Nothing stupid, just didn't need that downshift but it was there anyway.  I moved to the right lane and waited.  Dashboard goes Christmas tree on me.  Hill hold assist, ABS, TCS, check engine, AT Trans Temp and cruise control lights all come on with the last 2 flashing.  OK.  Nothing is red and I can live without all the nanny crap anyway.  Found someone w/ an ODBII reader at work and got a "TCC Pressure Control Solenoid circuit low" code.  Did a little research.  It's not pretty.  Cleared the codes but then it threw them again on the way home.  Took the car in yesterday and I called today to find out its a 1500 dollar job.  Ouch.  The car has nearly 182K miles and I've literally put 500 dollars into repairs in all that time.  So, amortized over the life of the car, it's not terrible.  Just sucks that it's tax time and we just dropped a bunch of money on a fence and skid steer rental.  Whatever.  It's not 22K in taxes owed.  I'm not a huge fan of paying dealer prices but they've always been awesome and we got a brand new Forester w/ 72 miles as a loaner, no questions. 

Funny part.  None of our vehicles have any of this intelligent crap so when Kim started driving this Forester with all the new stuff activated, she freaked out.  The car was trying to steer for her, then it hit the brakes when she didn't want it to and then it died at the stoplight.  She was certain it was demon possessed and wanted to kill it.  Listening to her tell the story, I nearly peed.  She's clever tho.  She figured out how to turn some of it off and I'm sure she'll turn the rest of before embarking on her day today.  Still funny.

A lot of current cars die at stop lights these days, then restart the moment you hit the gas to go.