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Online Mrs. DantesDame

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #50 on: June 28, 2016, 07:17:33 AM »
I think you have a lot to look forward to then... things aren´t looking good for an easy Brexit.


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Offline expatbrit

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #51 on: June 28, 2016, 04:12:27 PM »
There's nothing wrong with Norway.  The thing is, its relationship with the EU is exactly what 52% of Britons just voted against.

Norway has to accept all of the EU rules but gets no say in the EU rule-making, and to get the free trade agreement with the EU they also have to accept the free movement of people, which is just what the Brexit vote was all about preventing.

Yup. Abide by the rules you have no say in, or abide by the rules with a chance to influence them. Hmmm.
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Offline expatbrit

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #52 on: June 28, 2016, 04:16:22 PM »
But at least you guys will be able to kick the darkies out.  I mean, that is what it was all about, right?

Yay.  Politics.  Since you started it.  Maybe they just want to be able to control who comes into their country.  No one can claim that with this mass immigration from certain countries they aren't seeing major issues.  But go ahead and make it what you want.

Don't kid yourself. Politics started with the creation of this thread.

Everybody in the UK admits that immigration has been an economic benefit- it's just that 52% of the voters (mainly the older ones- the younger the voter, the more likely to vote "remain") just don't care that immigrants are beneficial to the economy, they just don't want them.

Sure, there was a heaping side order of resentment that the UK had to follow rules created by EU beareaucrats in Brussels, but it was mainly about immigration.

That is certainly one side's take on this.  My friends in the UK who are my age simply do not like the regulatory burdens and changes that adversely affect them.  They feel they have virtually no voice in the process and want more local control.  You will, of course, smirk and assume it's about immigrants, but there's not much I can do about it.  For the Remain side, it gives them the sense of moral superiority in their loss to try and frame it as such.

Oddly, I have many friends in the UK.

Not a /single/ one is pro-this. They are all gobsmacked at the overall stupidity, and the impact of it. My father was Remain, based on the economics.

Yes The world will survive, so will the economy. So will Britain, in some way or other. I just don't think it'll be as good as it could be
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Offline expatbrit

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #53 on: June 28, 2016, 04:19:47 PM »
I think you have a lot to look forward to then... things aren´t looking good for an easy Brexit.


No. The EU has NO incentive to be lenient here. In fact, they have every incentive in the world to be punitive. It's going to be a painful decade as the UK (or what remains of it) attempts to extract itself from the EU.

Papa, were the Welsh all exit? It's your people's fault! I, at least, am a Londoner.

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #54 on: June 29, 2016, 01:48:21 AM »
The Welsh Wales bits of Wales were all remain. The English bits (ie Flint etc) were for leave. However, South Wales, which has benefited from so much EU funding, voted leave. WTF???

London should declare UDI along with Scotland.
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #55 on: June 29, 2016, 09:05:08 AM »
Reimpose the Danelaw!

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #56 on: June 29, 2016, 10:03:12 AM »
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #57 on: June 29, 2016, 12:43:01 PM »
The Welsh Wales bits of Wales were all remain. The English bits (ie Flint etc) were for leave. However, South Wales, which has benefited from so much EU funding, voted leave. WTF???

Cornwall, too. Followed by 'Westminster, please protect our 60M in EU subsidies'.


Quote
London should declare UDI along with Scotland.

Chuck, of the Wheelnerds, coined 'LIZ' as the 'London Isolation Zone'. Now, like Brexit, he claims it has a good name and thus will be Bound To Happen (tm).

The Queen, of course, will have to stay with London. Liz, queen of LIZ and Scotland. She can keep Buck House and Balmoral, obviously, and maybe Windsor can be extraterritorial.
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #58 on: June 29, 2016, 12:50:46 PM »
Well, Cornwall has its failing fishing industry to protect. Shame they have lost billions of Euros in the process.
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Online Mr. Whippy

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #59 on: June 29, 2016, 02:25:39 PM »
The business catastrophe seems to have been short lived.  Major indices rebounding.  Now to go about the real work of setting up trade agreements and such (you know, those things independent countries do...)

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #60 on: June 29, 2016, 02:59:44 PM »
...I mean, just think of it as bringing national policy in house instead of outsourcing it.

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #62 on: June 29, 2016, 03:06:05 PM »
The business catastrophe seems to have been short lived.


You think so?  I don't.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/29/uk-firms-mull-moves-in-wake-of-poll/

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2016/06/24/brexit-us-firms-jobs-could-leave-uk/86338782/

http://fortune.com/2016/06/29/brexit-move-jobs-employees/


"mulls", "could", "may"....


Or may not.  Doubt anyone is going to make any changes (positive or negative) until there is an understanding of what the new trade agreements look like.  Think of the worst possible outcome and the best possible outcome and the likely outcome will be somewhere in between.  MSM is currently focused on the worst possible outcome--don't buy the hype.

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #63 on: June 29, 2016, 03:51:31 PM »
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #64 on: June 29, 2016, 03:58:23 PM »
Main Stream Media.  That would include MSNBC, CNN, FoxNews, NYT, Washington Post etc.  Since they all are chasing eyes and advertising revenues (which are generally related), sensational stories gain more eyes. 

...and when they're sensationalistic predictions prove false, well nobody really goes back to beat them with their own words. 

Offline Scratch

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #65 on: June 29, 2016, 04:08:17 PM »
Main Stream Media.  That would include MSNBC, CNN, FoxNews, NYT, Washington Post etc.  Since they all are chasing eyes and advertising revenues (which are generally related), sensational stories gain more eyes. 

...and when they're sensationalistic predictions prove false, well nobody really goes back to beat them with their own words.

What are your most trusted & preferred news sources?

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #66 on: June 29, 2016, 04:28:06 PM »
Main Stream Media.  That would include MSNBC, CNN, FoxNews, NYT, Washington Post etc.  Since they all are chasing eyes and advertising revenues (which are generally related), sensational stories gain more eyes. 

...and when they're sensationalistic predictions prove false, well nobody really goes back to beat them with their own words.

What are your most trusted & preferred news sources?

Ans:  None.

I try to read disinterested sources (as much as possible).  BBC, The Times, Christian Science Monitor for US domestic issues and then balance that off of what is in WaPo, CNN, NYT and FoxNews.  Honestly I haven't found a good source for European related news.  In that case, I try to read multiple sources (WSJ, WaPo, BBC, Guardian, The Times, Christian Science Monitor, CNN) and then try to suss out what is apparently fact and what is slant.

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #67 on: June 29, 2016, 05:09:00 PM »
Try The Economist (economist.com) for UK financial news.  They are the British version of the WSJ.

The Economist isn't full of rosy financial news at the moment.
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #68 on: June 29, 2016, 05:11:58 PM »
Try The Economist (economist.com) for UK financial news.  They are the British version of the WSJ.

The Economist isn't full of rosy financial news at the moment.

I'm sure not.  Business does not like uncertainty.  It causes paralysis.  The real question is what will the nature of the new trade agreements be.  Possibly better than they were previously, possibly worse, or more likely, a mix of the two.  Somehow I doubt seriously that Sally Struthers is going to be doing late night commercials to help the poor British anytime soon.

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #69 on: June 29, 2016, 05:18:09 PM »
Somehow I doubt seriously that Sally Struthers is going to be doing late night commercials to help the poor British anytime soon.



Of course not- she hates those blighters.   
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #70 on: June 30, 2016, 02:34:16 AM »
Main Stream Media.  That would include MSNBC, CNN, FoxNews, NYT, Washington Post etc.

Considering I don´t watch/read any of the above, I would like to say that I have not bought the hype. I get my news from BBC, AJ and Reuters, among a dabbling of other sources.

Sure, uncertainty is not good for businesses, but there is a lot at stake in the coming years. Of course I don´t expect Sally Struthers to come back from oblivion, but that does not mean that it´ll be all parades and hot kettles for the UK.


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Re: Brexit
« Reply #71 on: June 30, 2016, 02:40:47 AM »
I use the BBC and Al Jazeera as my most trusted sources-nothing American, unless you count the Huffington Post.
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #72 on: June 30, 2016, 08:35:21 AM »
Main Stream Media.  That would include MSNBC, CNN, FoxNews, NYT, Washington Post etc.

Considering I don´t watch/read any of the above, I would like to say that I have not bought the hype. I get my news from BBC, AJ and Reuters, among a dabbling of other sources.

Sure, uncertainty is not good for businesses, but there is a lot at stake in the coming years. Of course I don´t expect Sally Struthers to come back from oblivion, but that does not mean that it´ll be all parades and hot kettles for the UK.


"May you live in interesting times."

As I'm sure you recognize, the program format of even those sources differs in the EU from what they present stateside.

What really has me concerned is whether Brexit will prompt Triumph to return to a right-side shift.
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #73 on: June 30, 2016, 09:33:36 AM »
Speaking of Triumph, with the pound's collapse, those should be cheaper next year, assuming we have some sort of trade deal in place with the gobshites.
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #74 on: June 30, 2016, 11:09:35 AM »
Speaking of Triumph, with the pound's collapse, those should be cheaper next year, assuming we have some sort of trade deal in place with the gobshites.

Hmm...

This could improve the British domestic motorcycle market that's been so ravaged by MotoGuzzi of late...

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #75 on: June 30, 2016, 06:58:10 PM »
Speaking of Triumph, with the pound's collapse, those should be cheaper next year, assuming we have some sort of trade deal in place with the gobshites.

Maybe not.  I read a study a while ago that found vehicle prices are market driven and not sensitive to currency valuations.  Still, we can always hope for a discount.
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #77 on: July 01, 2016, 06:07:27 AM »
I think Brexit can be justified on this single pivotal issue:


CBR600RR production will cease.  Cannot meet EU noise and emission standards

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #78 on: July 01, 2016, 09:16:42 AM »
I think Brexit can be justified on this single pivotal issue:


CBR600RR production will cease.  Cannot meet EU noise and emission standards



It sounds like an excuse to me. Last year they only sold 150 units in the UK. The margins in that segment have always been near zero, and if volume doesn't exist, then there is no reason besides corporate inertia to continue.
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #79 on: July 01, 2016, 09:53:55 AM »
No need to panic or believe that the Leave Campaign lied to the public.

Here's their plan for EU Exit: http://thebrexitplan.com/
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #80 on: July 01, 2016, 10:50:25 AM »
No need to panic or believe that the Leave Campaign lied to the public.

Here's their plan for EU Exit: http://thebrexitplan.com/


Brilliant. I hope that they can pull it off.
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #81 on: July 01, 2016, 03:31:10 PM »
Out. No pun intended.
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #82 on: July 01, 2016, 03:58:23 PM »
Try The Economist (economist.com) for UK financial news.  They are the British version of the WSJ.

The Economist isn't full of rosy financial news at the moment.

Not remotely. Though they are very definitely pro-EU and pro-Europe, and definitely to the left.
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #83 on: July 01, 2016, 04:35:40 PM »
Try The Economist (economist.com) for UK financial news.  They are the British version of the WSJ.

The Economist isn't full of rosy financial news at the moment.

Not remotely. Though they are very definitely pro-EU and pro-Europe, and definitely to the left.

I don't get your equation of being in the EU=the left.
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #84 on: July 01, 2016, 05:03:50 PM »
Try The Economist (economist.com) for UK financial news.  They are the British version of the WSJ.

The Economist isn't full of rosy financial news at the moment.

Not remotely. Though they are very definitely pro-EU and pro-Europe, and definitely to the left.

I don't get your equation of being in the EU=the left.

Unconnected statements thrown out at work. Economist is a bit left-leaning, though not to the extreme of the Guardian. hard to categorize EU=Left with Cameron as it's champion. :)
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #85 on: July 02, 2016, 01:48:57 AM »
The Guardian is scarcely very left wing. More like liberal.
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #86 on: July 02, 2016, 09:03:02 AM »
Left wing=liberal
Right wing=conservative

These are common usages of the terms. Finer gradations may occur to express how left or right something is, but it's still left and right.

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #87 on: July 02, 2016, 02:21:55 PM »
Left wing=liberal
Right wing=conservative

These are common usages of the terms. Finer gradations may occur to express how left or right something is, but it's still left and right.

Yet early Conservatives described themselves as liberal? I am most confused.
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #88 on: July 02, 2016, 03:14:41 PM »
Mid twentieth century the two terms swapped meaning for some reason. At least here in the colonies.
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #89 on: July 02, 2016, 04:05:12 PM »
Mid twentieth century the two terms swapped meaning for some reason. At least here in the colonies.

Over here too.
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #90 on: July 02, 2016, 08:40:21 PM »
Left wing=liberal
Right wing=conservative

These are common usages of the terms. Finer gradations may occur to express how left or right something is, but it's still left and right.

Yet early Conservatives described themselves as liberal? I am most confused.

In the classical sense Liberals tend to break from the norm. In the days of ancient Greece, a self-ruling society would have been the odd man out amongst monarchies and such. A government designed to keep power in the hands of the governed would have been a most liberal idea in such an environment.

Conservatives however tended to be for the status quo.

With the advent of a Constitutional Republic the status quo became individual rights and freedoms; a change that made Conservatives (supporting the status quo) the champion and Liberals the ones wanting change.

Look back at the Republican fight against slavery, Jim Crowe, etc.; pretty liberal in those times. More recently (JFK - ask not what your country can do for you) the Democrats would have sounded like modern Republicans.

Left and Right were terms based on where each party sat within the Congress and Senate chambers and got associated in media along the way with L/C ideology in a more fixed way than party malleability.

Mid 20th century we experienced what Ike warned us about in his final speech to the nation; the Military/Industrial/(Lobbyist) Complex and it's corrupting influence over our representatives. Today, few (regardless of party affiliation) mean what they say when pandering to audiences and are all for the status quo within the confines of keeping each person in office and each party in primary or secondary power so they exempt themselves from onerousness laws and taxation while amassing personal wealth and expanding government power over the Governed (because that further cements the power and wealth for themselves and their croneys).

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #91 on: July 07, 2016, 08:57:36 AM »
The Guardian is scarcely very left wing. More like liberal.

Mmm. I'm not saying it's a bad thing there. :)
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #92 on: July 12, 2016, 09:52:30 AM »
Global economic collapse! :willy: :willy: :willy:

New all time high for the Dow Jones


Ok, but ALL INVESTMENT IN THE UK WILL END!!!   :willy: :willy: :willy:

Siemens promises to continue its investment in the UK

Moral:  The media whips up fear and anxiety to boost their ad revenue.  Dial up your cynicism of the press.

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #93 on: July 12, 2016, 10:32:26 AM »
ehh, the British Empire has been ok by itself for quite some time. I'm sure they'll sort this out...

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #94 on: July 12, 2016, 03:27:42 PM »
The media whips up fear and anxiety to boost their ad revenue.  Dial up your cynicism of the press.

This shouldn't come as a surprise.  That being said, there is still a lot of unknowns coming down the road...
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Re: Brexit
« Reply #95 on: July 12, 2016, 04:12:42 PM »
The media whips up fear and anxiety to boost their ad revenue.  Dial up your cynicism of the press.

This shouldn't come as a surprise.  That being said, there is still a lot of unknowns coming down the road...

Yes.  Unknowns that capable people with reasonable positions will have to work out in treaties and contracts.  It's mostly about business.  The human rights stuff will be slightly affected by EU mandates, but we're talking about the UK not Somalia.

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #96 on: July 12, 2016, 04:51:21 PM »
The basic problem is that those reasonable people will be working towards goals at odds with each other. 

It doesn't serve in the interests of the remaining EU members to give the UK any sort of preferential deal- not even a halfway good one. 

It also serves the politicians left standing in the UK no good at all to swallow the deal that's going to be offered to them by the EU, either, and they won't have the ability to set their own terms.

Meanwhile, capital will continue to migrate out of the UK while all this goes on.  It won't happen in an instant, but it will happen.  If the UK is no longer able to "passport" goods, services and financial instruments, there is no compelling reason do think of it as a base for anything but local demand fulfillment.
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Online Mr. Whippy

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #97 on: July 12, 2016, 05:42:25 PM »
The basic problem is that those reasonable people will be working towards goals at odds with each other. 

It doesn't serve in the interests of the remaining EU members to give the UK any sort of preferential deal- not even a halfway good one. 

It also serves the politicians left standing in the UK no good at all to swallow the deal that's going to be offered to them by the EU, either, and they won't have the ability to set their own terms.

Meanwhile, capital will continue to migrate out of the UK while all this goes on.  It won't happen in an instant, but it will happen.  If the UK is no longer able to "passport" goods, services and financial instruments, there is no compelling reason do think of it as a base for anything but local demand fulfillment.

So what is your prediction for the UK 2018? 

Here's mine:  It's economy will be essentially in the same trajectory it was in November 2015.  The GBP will be 1.6X USD and both will be favorable trading with the Euro (USD will be approximately equivalent to the Euro and GBP will be 1.6X the Euro). 

London will remain the hub of financial industry that it is today.

Online Mr. Whippy

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #98 on: July 19, 2016, 12:31:22 PM »
I guess this means you have no predictions for the UK.  At least it's honest to admit that no one really knows whether this will have an overall positive, overall negative or essentially no effect on the UK economy.

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Re: Brexit
« Reply #99 on: July 20, 2016, 08:10:33 AM »
My prediction is that tourism will pick up, at least in the short term.

I know I am planning a trip while the pound is down. 
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