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Offline SuperHans

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My New Black Gun
« on: November 27, 2013, 06:01:41 AM »
So I finally got a new AR. It's the Colt with Magpul furniture I was talking about in the other thread I started. I also ended up grabbing an Aimpoint Pro for it. I picked up a handful of Pmags for it and am looking forward to getting it out to the range once I strip it and clean the shipping oil from it. I also mounted the forward grip that came with it and a Pelican light I had after I took the pictures.

I figure primary use will be home defense and just general shooting at shit. :D I'd also like to take some sort of shooting course in the future if anyone has any recommendations. Although the tactical types interest me, I would also like something a little more basic.

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2013, 06:05:45 AM »
Looks dangerous.
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Offline SuperHans

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2013, 06:41:44 AM »
Looks dangerous.

It will poke your eye out.

Offline stew71

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2013, 10:26:32 AM »
Nice fowling piece, sir.   :thumbsup:
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Online Black Hills

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2013, 10:57:31 AM »
Nice!
 I still question why people think the AR is a good home defense weapon? wouldn't a .45 or a 12ga. be more suited to the task?
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Offline misanthropist

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2013, 11:13:16 AM »
Why wouldn't it excel as an HD gun?

Shotguns are slow with excessive recoil, limited ability to make precision shots and usually rudimentary sights.

.45s have fewer ammo options for limiting over penetration in structures and capacity is more limited as well.  Terminal effects are worse and few people shoot handguns as well as long guns.


If I thought there was a chance of getting into any sort of possibly armed conflict with anyone at any distance I could justify shooting, I would take an AR over anything else.
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Online Black Hills

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2013, 11:22:50 AM »


If I thought there was a chance of getting into any sort of possibly armed conflict with anyone at any distance I could justify shooting, I would take an AR over anything else.

apparently your house is a lot bigger than mine
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Offline misanthropist

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2013, 11:32:06 AM »


If I thought there was a chance of getting into any sort of possibly armed conflict with anyone at any distance I could justify shooting, I would take an AR over anything else.

apparently your house is a lot bigger than mine

You don't think that it's possible to have a justified shooting at short distances?
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Online Black Hills

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2013, 11:43:53 AM »


If I thought there was a chance of getting into any sort of possibly armed conflict with anyone at any distance I could justify shooting, I would take an AR over anything else.

apparently your house is a lot bigger than mine

You don't think that it's possible to have a justified shooting at short distances?

oh, yea. probably the only place you are realistically going to have one. I just think at <10yds the AR wouldn't be my first choice that is all.
I'm assuming a home defense scenario that has me waking from a deep sleep to find someone breaking in or already in my house. the .40 baby eagle in my nightstand is far easier to grab and point in the proper direction than the AR (IMO).  I also think a handgun is easier to move around with inside the house.
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Offline SuperHans

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2013, 11:48:46 AM »
I can see valid points to both arguments. I can tell you an AR with a 16" barrel isn't all that hard to move around the house with. Hell, the military uses them for CQB.

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2013, 11:54:06 AM »
doesn't matter to me what you prefer, I was just wondering why people prefer a long gun to a handgun or a rifle to a shotgun? maybe I'm just stuck in the old ways, the deer rifle was the last thing you grabbed for trouble around the house (human or animal), a handgun or shotgun seemed a more logical choice but what do I know?
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Offline misanthropist

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2013, 12:00:23 PM »
doesn't matter to me what you prefer, I was just wondering why people prefer a long gun to a handgun or a rifle to a shotgun? maybe I'm just stuck in the old ways, the deer rifle was the last thing you grabbed for trouble around the house (human or animal), a handgun or shotgun seemed a more logical choice but what do I know?

What would be the advantage of a shotgun over an AR?
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Offline stew71

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2013, 01:07:50 PM »
doesn't matter to me what you prefer, I was just wondering why people prefer a long gun to a handgun or a rifle to a shotgun? maybe I'm just stuck in the old ways, the deer rifle was the last thing you grabbed for trouble around the house (human or animal), a handgun or shotgun seemed a more logical choice but what do I know?

What would be the advantage of a shotgun over an AR?

Easier for someone with limited training to use, perhaps. I mean it doesn't get any easier than a double-barrelled shotgun, for instance. (No, I'm not channelling Crazy Uncle Joe B) You also have to consider the possible over-penetration of the .223 at very close range.

Both have their ups and downs when it comes to HD. I just tell someone to use whatever you feel the most comfortable and confident shooting. I mean, someone who's deadly with a .22 revolver isn't someone I'd want to screw with at the other end of a hallway.
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Online Black Hills

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2013, 01:15:03 PM »
doesn't matter to me what you prefer, I was just wondering why people prefer a long gun to a handgun or a rifle to a shotgun? maybe I'm just stuck in the old ways, the deer rifle was the last thing you grabbed for trouble around the house (human or animal), a handgun or shotgun seemed a more logical choice but what do I know?

What would be the advantage of a shotgun over an AR?

maybe I'm just a crappy marksman, but its a lot easy to hit moving targets with a scattergun ;) not to mention they do a considerable amount more damage than a .223 at close range. and, most everybody has one :)
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Offline misanthropist

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2013, 01:21:23 PM »
I recommend trying to reload a double-barrelled shotgun while in full-on blind panic mode before committing to the idea that a double barrel is easier to use with limited training. Sights are again rudimentary and recoil is often harder to manage.  Hits with a red dot equipped AR will be easier and faster, and reloads less frequent and easier.

Adequate terminal performance combined with limited intermediate barrier penetration is almost exclusively possible with AR ammo.  Shotgun ammo with adequate terminal performance will definitely tend to overpenetrate.

In general the Ar is going to be a better way to go.
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Offline misanthropist

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2013, 01:23:22 PM »
And at close range, of course, there's not enough spread on shot to make up for the rudimentary sights. Inside a house you're probably only going to get an inch or two of spread. That's not really enough to be useful.
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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2013, 01:46:41 PM »
2" of lead flying at your target is better than .223" isn't it? anyway, opinions vary and yours are definitely different than mine. in my area I have yet to hear of a defense situation (even fatalities) where more than a couple rounds were fired, you area may be different. of course you can find an "expert opinion" on either side of the argument. I think we will just have to agree to disagree. but one last question. if you were to get shot at 10yds. what do you think would be the most lethal round, .223 .45 12ga? assuming a near center mass shot missing heart/aorta/spine.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2013, 02:03:05 PM by Black Hills »
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Offline misanthropist

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2013, 02:43:12 PM »
I'm on my phone so I'll try to give a quick summary but this really warrants a longer response.

There are 2 mechanisms of incapacitation: CNS damage and loss of blood pressure the brain. Technically there is a third, tissue damage, but that's not really relevant to small arms.

If you don't do a ton of vascular or nervous tissue damage on a COM shot, it doesn't really matter what the hit was with. Incapacitation would be purely psychological at that point and results would be unpredictable.

You would probably see a marginal advantage to 00 buck in terms of single shot terminal performance on COM hits over 5.56 but there are several problems with using that as the sole data point around which to build an argument for the shotgun.

By measuring terminal performance exclusively, one is presuming that a shot was successful. A successful shot with a 120mm artillery shell would be an even better guarantee of terminal performance; why not use that?   Because other factors make it wildly impractical.

Gun selection, therefore, is a balancing act of many different factors. You might get a marginal improvement in one area but if it comes at a major cost in another area, is it worth it?

Going to a shotgun means going to a gun most people will not be able to reload under stress. You may not value capacity but it is a limitation.

You also limit your ammo selection.  Only buckshot (or a slug) offers adequate terminal performance to make physical incapacitation a realistic outcome; that means you will overpenetrate on interior structures with large numbers of projectiles on every shot. Results may be unpredictable. Obviously slugs are out of the question for interior use unless overpenetration is not a concern.

If I had to take a shotgun I would deal with that and it's a much better choice than any handgun.  But if I could trade the shotgun for a low-recoiling weapon with similar terminal performance, vastly superior capacity, greater accuracy, superior sighting systems, and a manual of arms that is ultimately simpler and requires fewer physical actions to be performed correctly in order for the gun to keep working, you bet that's the route I'm going to go.
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Online Black Hills

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2013, 03:01:58 PM »
you think about this way more than I do, so I will agree with your info ???
I have shot living creatures at close range with both weapons in question and the shotgun blasts ended their lives much quicker than the rifle, of course they weren't humans ;)
I would bet most any upland bird hunter can reload and fire a pump action or auto shotgun as quickly as you can reload your AR (of course far fewer rounds).
I come from a lifestyle where guns are tools, so I prefer to use what I am comfortable with. I nthe end if there is a home defense situation I doubt my choice of weapon will have anything to do with the outcome. Sure, a nailgun is nice to impress your buddies but my hammer will yield the same results :)
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Offline FJR1300

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2013, 03:04:59 PM »

Offline misanthropist

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2013, 03:27:07 PM »
you think about this way more than I do, so I will agree with your info ???
I have shot living creatures at close range with both weapons in question and the shotgun blasts ended their lives much quicker than the rifle, of course they weren't humans ;)
I would bet most any upland bird hunter can reload and fire a pump action or auto shotgun as quickly as you can reload your AR (of course far fewer rounds).
I come from a lifestyle where guns are tools, so I prefer to use what I am comfortable with. I nthe end if there is a home defense situation I doubt my choice of weapon will have anything to do with the outcome. Sure, a nailgun is nice to impress your buddies but my hammer will yield the same results :)

Well, thinking about this and then explaining it for the benefit of LE, private security and anti-piracy outfits is part of what the company I used to own did (and still does if I get called in to consult).

A hammer will definitely drive nails, but as a former production framer, I used nail guns because I didn't have time to stand around hammering every nail.

I have seen a few shotgun guys with sub-2-second reloads, shot to shot, but not very many. It can be done and a shotgun isn't a bad choice necessarily but there are a lot of reasons LE is going to ARs and in fact I'd probably argue that many of the reasons are similar to the reasons that production shops use nail guns instead of hammers whenever possible.
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Online Black Hills

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2013, 03:35:45 PM »
you think about this way more than I do, so I will agree with your info ???
I have shot living creatures at close range with both weapons in question and the shotgun blasts ended their lives much quicker than the rifle, of course they weren't humans ;)
I would bet most any upland bird hunter can reload and fire a pump action or auto shotgun as quickly as you can reload your AR (of course far fewer rounds).
I come from a lifestyle where guns are tools, so I prefer to use what I am comfortable with. I nthe end if there is a home defense situation I doubt my choice of weapon will have anything to do with the outcome. Sure, a nailgun is nice to impress your buddies but my hammer will yield the same results :)

Well, thinking about this and then explaining it for the benefit of LE, private security and anti-piracy outfits is part of what the company I used to own did (and still does if I get called in to consult).

A hammer will definitely drive nails, but as a former production framer, I used nail guns because I didn't have time to stand around hammering every nail.

I have seen a few shotgun guys with sub-2-second reloads, shot to shot, but not very many. It can be done and a shotgun isn't a bad choice necessarily but there are a lot of reasons LE is going to ARs and in fact I'd probably argue that many of the reasons are similar to the reasons that production shops use nail guns instead of hammers whenever possible.

I understand perfectly, I used a nail gun when I was in the construction business as well. Now building things is more of a hobby, that is the difference in my gun opinions as well. For LE, military, etc all your comments would apply. but, for the average guy I stick with my line of thinking. The average AR buyer shoots it for fun and really doesn't become very proficient (of the owners I know its more of a toy) with it. On the other hand my shotgun is second nature to me. thus "I" would perform better with the shotgun. IMO home defense and LE/military application are very different things, not the least of which is training.

To me it is similar to arguing the difference between a production sportbike and a GP bike, sure the GP is "better" but very few riders are going to be better on it than they are on the production bike. and some may very likely be worse.
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Offline misanthropist

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2013, 03:41:45 PM »
If a person knows himself to be unskilled with a particular gun then during a gunfight is not the time to learn.  But that is not really an argument that one gun is better than another. The AR has a lot of inherent advantages; whether an individual choses to make use of them or not is definitely something only the user can control.
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Online Black Hills

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2013, 03:49:12 PM »
If a person knows himself to be unskilled with a particular gun then during a gunfight is not the time to learn.  But that is not really an argument that one gun is better than another. The AR has a lot of inherent advantages; whether an individual choses to make use of them or not is definitely something only the user can control.

very true, I doubt I will ever encounter the need to point a gun at someone (I've been on the business end twice and survived :) ) as my lifestyle is a bit more laid back than it was in the past. I do not feel the need to purchase and more importantly practice with an AR. I will take my chances with my BPS .12 ga or .40 handguns ( I can't imagine carrying an AR around in my truck but my PPS is easy), hopefully one or the other will suffice until professional help arrives.
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Offline giaka

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #24 on: November 27, 2013, 05:29:46 PM »
Nice!
 I still question why people think the AR is a good home defense weapon? wouldn't a .45 or a 12ga. be more suited to the task?

I am just better with my short ARs (the 223 or the 9mm). And when I say better I mean triple tapping a 4 inch gong at 20 yards without missing (with the 9mm) for a whole magazine. I cant do that with my 45 handgun. Besides my ARs have optics, lights and lasers that do not "get in the way". Its a comfort thing I guess? Oh and the 300 AAC AR pistol will probably take over HD duty once its done and proven.  8)
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Offline Scottzilla

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2013, 09:15:14 PM »
I was gonna ask how easy it is to remove the flash hider off of one of them pSA Black Friday uppers but this thread turned really fucking stupid.  ;)

Offline misanthropist

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2013, 10:42:01 PM »
Well, thanks at least for not attempting to make any useful input...I think we've probably all seen what's happened when you've tried to do that in the past.
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Online Black Hills

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2013, 12:05:21 AM »
 :)
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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2013, 08:19:59 AM »
Well this escalated quickly.

Nice bike or something.


Offline Scottzilla

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2013, 09:14:42 AM »
Well, thanks at least for not attempting to make any useful input...I think we've probably all seen what's happened when you've tried to do that in the past.

I heard there is a Magpul sponsored "pretend to be a soldier" class coming up. They teach you how to ask tactical questions and wear sunglasses.  They also hold a piece of cardboard over your head so you can train shooting in the shade.   
Best part?   snacks included.   
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Offline SuperHans

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2013, 09:27:27 AM »
Well, thanks at least for not attempting to make any useful input...I think we've probably all seen what's happened when you've tried to do that in the past.

I heard there is a Magpul sponsored "pretend to be a soldier" class coming up. They teach you how to ask tactical questions and wear sunglasses.  They also hold a piece of cardboard over your head so you can train shooting in the shade.   
Best part?   snacks included.   
My gift to you.

What kind of snacks?

Offline misanthropist

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2013, 09:35:07 AM »
Not a magpul fan myself but thanks for at least trying to string some buzzwords together.
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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2013, 10:03:32 AM »
I think the definition of Home Defense is very different from person to person.  At least what they envision it to be anyway.  In my world, home defense is us laying in bed and someone coming in the house.  I have my 9 in my nightstand and Kim has her Governor in hers.  My brother, however, practices clearing his house w/ his AR because his vision of home defense is hunting a bad guy inside his house.  He has cable.  :)  When it came time to put lead downrange, none of that crap translated very well.

We practice w/ all the guns so that proficiency, familiarity, and even comfort are not going to be the biggest concern if the ship hits the sand. 

Because we have a place to do it, we also practice what is real and practical.  For instance, Kim sleeps on the right side of the bed on her right side thus effectively incapacitating her right hand as a rapid deployment option for her .45.  So, we put her on the ground in sleeping position and had her practice reaching across her body and grabbing the gun with her left hand and sitting up and sweeping (and shooting) at various angles with just her left hand.  We did this from both the sitting position and a very awkward turned and half sitting up position because those would be the most likely scenarios if someone came into the bedroom.  We all work off handed, one handed, turning, walking and a multitude of different scenarios cuz the bad guys rarely give you a script of their intended actions.

When we do pistol work, we include sweeping across 180 degrees of potential target space so we can work on footing and balance because who ever thinks about that?  The first time you try to rapidly acquire a target behind you, footing will be the most important thing you've never thought about at a range.  When we do long gun work, it always includes using the safety between stations and sometimes even between targets to work familiarity with gun function should it ever have to be deployed rapidly.  It would suck to have 30 rounds of potential but be killed because you couldn't find or operate the safety or reload functions.

When we stay in the travel trailer, I have the 9 beside my bed but the Benelli SuperNova in the corner by the door.  Potential to have to stop something bigger in the woods is greater than in my neighborhood.  I guess I don't have a scenario where the AR is in position for home defense but that's probably because she's got a long heavy barrel.  The AK is kind of the same thing... a tad unweildy (until I get more practice with it). 

I will argue the point about reloading a shotgun though.  You're leaving out the exceedingly cool fact that anyone who is likely using an AR probably has 3 to 5 loaded clips waiting for their duty assignments.  This nullifies your reload statement.   God help you if you need more than 30 rounds of anything in a home defense situation though. 

I guess my point is use what is practical for YOUR situation.  If your whole life has been shotguns and deer rifles, an AR won't make sense for you.  If you're prior military or LE and have extensive time on an AR platform, that will make a WHOLE lot more sense to you than a shotgun.  Whatever your HD situation, please get out and practice as much as possible and ideally somewhere other than just a one shot per second straight line 25 yard range. 

Nice gun. 
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Offline Scottzilla

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2013, 11:43:57 AM »
Not a magpul fan myself but thanks for at least trying to string some buzzwords together.


Here's a tactical iphone case for you. 
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005KU5T92/ref=as_li_ss_til?tag=slickguns-20&camp=0&creative=0&linkCode=as4&creativeASIN=B005KU5T92&adid=1FEWTBXK0MS2STBJQCP6

The preferred iphone case of the Canadian special forces.   8)

Offline misanthropist

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2013, 03:15:49 PM »
I remember when those came out. I had an iPhone back then.  I bought an otter box for it.
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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2013, 04:17:22 PM »
I remember when those came out. I had an iPhone back then.  I bought an otter box for it.

Lol... That's what I have...
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Offline Smilodon_Con

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #36 on: November 28, 2013, 05:39:44 PM »
Well we know Scottzilla up and decided to buy a caseful of semi auto pistols, 2k$ worth of ammo and a membership at a New York Slicky indoor range two years ago.

This makes him an expert you know.

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Offline Scottzilla

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #37 on: November 28, 2013, 09:43:52 PM »
Nah, you guys are the experts.  Lol

Offline BMW-K

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2013, 10:16:56 PM »
I think the definition of Home Defense is very different from person to person.  At least what they envision it to be anyway.  In my world, home defense is us laying in bed and someone coming in the house.  I have my 9 in my nightstand and Kim has her Governor in hers.  My brother, however, practices clearing his house w/ his AR because his vision of home defense is hunting a bad guy inside his house.  He has cable.  :)  When it came time to put lead downrange, none of that crap translated very well.

We practice w/ all the guns so that proficiency, familiarity, and even comfort are not going to be the biggest concern if the ship hits the sand. 

Because we have a place to do it, we also practice what is real and practical.  For instance, Kim sleeps on the right side of the bed on her right side thus effectively incapacitating her right hand as a rapid deployment option for her .45.  So, we put her on the ground in sleeping position and had her practice reaching across her body and grabbing the gun with her left hand and sitting up and sweeping (and shooting) at various angles with just her left hand.  We did this from both the sitting position and a very awkward turned and half sitting up position because those would be the most likely scenarios if someone came into the bedroom.  We all work off handed, one handed, turning, walking and a multitude of different scenarios cuz the bad guys rarely give you a script of their intended actions.

When we do pistol work, we include sweeping across 180 degrees of potential target space so we can work on footing and balance because who ever thinks about that?  The first time you try to rapidly acquire a target behind you, footing will be the most important thing you've never thought about at a range.  When we do long gun work, it always includes using the safety between stations and sometimes even between targets to work familiarity with gun function should it ever have to be deployed rapidly.  It would suck to have 30 rounds of potential but be killed because you couldn't find or operate the safety or reload functions.

When we stay in the travel trailer, I have the 9 beside my bed but the Benelli SuperNova in the corner by the door.  Potential to have to stop something bigger in the woods is greater than in my neighborhood.  I guess I don't have a scenario where the AR is in position for home defense but that's probably because she's got a long heavy barrel.  The AK is kind of the same thing... a tad unweildy (until I get more practice with it). 

I will argue the point about reloading a shotgun though.  You're leaving out the exceedingly cool fact that anyone who is likely using an AR probably has 3 to 5 loaded clips waiting for their duty assignments.  This nullifies your reload statement.   God help you if you need more than 30 rounds of anything in a home defense situation though. 

I guess my point is use what is practical for YOUR situation.  If your whole life has been shotguns and deer rifles, an AR won't make sense for you.  If you're prior military or LE and have extensive time on an AR platform, that will make a WHOLE lot more sense to you than a shotgun.  Whatever your HD situation, please get out and practice as much as possible and ideally somewhere other than just a one shot per second straight line 25 yard range. 

Nice gun.

VB's post has a lot of very good info in it.  In the end it all comes down to one simple statement:

"Practice under the circumstances by which you may encounter xxx".

the truth is that most people wouldn't have a clue waking up at XX-am to deal with a hostile situation.  Break-In?  Hell, screw that.  I slept through a 5.8 earthquake centered 6 miles from my house.

HOME defense is a completely different "game" than IDPA, IPSC or Sooper-Tacti-Cool exercises.   In those games you know the backstop, in general you know the shot layout, in general your know where your reloads are, etc.

Sure, Jerry Miculek (GREAT guy, BTW) may in fact be the fastest gun out there today (Or Rob Leathum, or whoever).  That's a game.  Muscle reflexes are a good thing…muscle memory is awesome. 

Now do it from your bed.  Try to do a drop-mag reload under the sheets while feigning sleep under break-in conditions. Try to clear a stovepipe under a quilt…oh, and are you in suburbia where your neighbor is 25 feet away, through four layers of sheetrock?

I've thought about this, and more.  Home defense (*BED defense) is not the "coolness" a lot of people think it is.  Saying "I have a gun and I will defend myself".

Really?  Do a time check.  Open the front door (pretend you're kicking it in) and charge to the bedroom.  Time it. 

Let me know if those three to five seconds are really enough time wakeup from a dead sleep, draw (from the nightstand) and get on target and fire.

(Sorry, I just read another Tacti-cool post on a website and I'm a little keyed up.  Feckin' idiots.)


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Damn.  Was that really a good idea?

Offline CLAY

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2013, 08:22:45 PM »
In those cases, when someone comes blazing in to our homes, the reality is that they will probably kill us- the entire situation is advantageous to them.  IMO that circumstance is so rare, it's really not worth worrying about.  Same thing is true of someone is trying to kill you- you can prepare, but if you're a target you're done.  The "surprised" burglar is probably a more realistic scenario, although we have one the best defenses against that- a dog.   :thumbsup:  Size doesn't mater- the bark is what counts.  The bark to let me know something is going on, the bark to warn off a criminal.

The reality is that I worry more about my government (down-the-road, not now) than I do my home safety (although I have done many of the things Vulcanbill wrote about).  I live in a very safe area, and take some basic, standard preventative measures.  The only time I ever worry on the road is when I stay in a high-traffic area, which is quite rare (riding is usually to get away from those areas).  Still, doesn't hurt to be prepared!  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

While the pistols are great for traveling and home, my go-to is a shotgun for the compatibility reasons you mention.  I have been shooting one since about age 10 and at this point I never aim- I always joke that the shotgun is simply an expression of my will.  hundreds of thousands of rounds and nearly anything that crawls, runs, or flies.  I'm not bragging- just making the point that for me that is the most intuitive weapon I have due to the trigger time I have with it.   :shrug:
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Online Jim

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #40 on: November 30, 2013, 08:48:32 PM »
The reality is that I worry more about my government (down-the-road, not now)

Are you one to "post your gun pix" on the Internet?
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Offline CLAY

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2013, 07:29:09 AM »
The reality is that I worry more about my government (down-the-road, not now)

Are you one to "post your gun pix" on the Internet?

Once on STN.  I tend to keep my gun thoughts, inventory, practicing, and carrying pretty private.  In fact, I think this is the only place (here and STN) it has ever come up other than a random hunting shot on FB.
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Offline khuffy

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #42 on: December 02, 2013, 07:55:44 PM »
Nice rifle, make sure to let us know how it shoots.

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #43 on: December 03, 2013, 07:39:37 AM »
Pointy things come out the hole at the far end.  Usually at great velocity.

Offline khuffy

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #44 on: December 04, 2013, 07:41:06 AM »
Pointy things come out the hole at the far end.  Usually at great velocity.

Man, I must have been doing it wrong.   :headscratch:

Offline Royal Tiger

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Re: My New Black Gun
« Reply #45 on: December 05, 2013, 10:59:15 AM »
I was a Combat Arms Specialist in the USAF-R for 11 years including 18 months on AD following 9/11.  I have been a city police officer for 18+ years.  The number of rounds I have sent through M-16/M-4/AR-15 weapon systems boggles the mind.  I remember shooting 2-3,000 rounds just for the hell of it on a weekend drill.  Part of my Combat Arms duties included service level maintenance and repair so I became an armorer for the AR series rifles, 870 shotguns, Beretta shotguns & pistols, and SIG pistols.  With all that background, for home defense, IN MY SITUATION, I would go 870 Remington.  Both the AR-15 and 870 are second nature to me after thousands of hours of building "muscle memory".  For my tiny 5' 1" girlfriend, she wants nothing to do with the 870.  We were looking to get her a nice .380 pistol to carry when she's working but other things have come up recently.  I am just about NEVER without one of my SIG .40's on duty or off.  Even when riding.  Personal as well as home defense comes down to what works for the INDIVIDUAL shooter and their own unique circumstances.  There is never a "right" or "perfect" answer for everyone.

Eric, nice looking rifle.  Lots of luck with it and please do seek out some training.  It does make the joys of shooting a little better when you get to apply some advanced techniques and see your proficiency improve.  Same as an advanced rider course.  We all can learn something.  The stagnate mind is the weak mind.  Humans excel when challenged, learning new things, and overcoming or expanding our skill sets.  Personal opinion of course.
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