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Offline SuperHans

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Colt or Daniel Defense?
« on: November 19, 2013, 09:00:37 AM »
I'm looking at two AR's. Thinking of buying either a Colt or a Daniel Defense.

Specifically the Colt LE6920MP with MAGPUL furniture http://www.coltsmfg.com/Catalog/ColtRifles/ColtLE6920Series.aspx

or

The Daniel Defense M4 Carbine, v4 https://danieldefense.com/rifles/daniel-defense-m4-carbine-v4-ns.html

I'm leaning toward the Colt at the moment due to price and it comes with sites. I don't have a ton of money and the Colt seems it would be better for me as a shooter out of the box.

Offline giaka

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Re: Colt or Daniel Defense?
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2013, 11:08:28 AM »
What kind of money are you talking about (the sites are blocked at work)?
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Offline SuperHans

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Re: Colt or Daniel Defense?
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2013, 11:35:37 AM »
Around $1100 for the Colt and $1300 for the DD. Haven't done any real shopping around, those are initial prices.

Colt:

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Throughout the world today, Colt’s reliability, performance, and accuracy provide our Armed Forces the confi dence required to accomplish any mission. Colt’s new LE6920MP-B shares many features of its combat proven brother, the Colt M4. The heart of this new carbine is its 16.1" chrome lined barrel. With a 1 in 7" twist, ammunition selection is virtually unlimited. Colt teamed up with Magpul Industries to outfi t this carbine with the most highly sought after accessories. Magpul MOE handguards, MOE carbine stock, MOE pistol grip, MOE vertical grip and a Magpul Back-up Sight all come as standard equipment on this exceptional carbine.

Lower is stamped with the Colt Logo and Colt spelled out M4 CARBINE and has a SN# that starts with LE. Has COLT DEFENSE HARTFORD, CONN. U.S.A. stamped on it. Fire and Safe marked on both sides of the receiver.

Features:
--Flat Top Receiver with Magpul Back Up Sight
--Black Magpul MOE Furniture
--Ships with 30-Round Magpul PMAG
--Bayonet Lug and Flash Hider

Specs:
Caliber 5.56X45 NATO
Barrel Length 16.1"
Bore Chromed, 6 Grooves, 1-7" RH Twist
Front Sight Adjustable Post for Elevation
Rear Sight Adjustable for both Windage and Elevation
Extended Length 35.5"
Collapsed Length 32"
Weight 6.9 lbs


DD:

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You asked and we listened. The Daniel Defense M4 Carbine, V4 is perfectly adapted for end-users who plan on attaching the ever popular red dot, holographic or magnified optics to their firearm. The slick top monolithic upper receiver provides operators with valuable top rail real estate for accessories that fit their shooting needs.

The Daniel Defense M4 Carbine, V4 is equipped with a single pinned low profile gas block that is drilled, taper reamed, and press fit into place to securely attach the low profile gas block to the barrel assembly. This creates a rock solid platform that will never let you down.

Materials & Construction
Precision crafted from the highest quality material available today with meticulous attention to detail, The Daniel Defense M4 Carbine will prove to be the benchmark in the industry.

•Lower Receiver: Mil-Spec with Enhanced Flared Magazine Well and Rear Receiver QD Swivel Attachment Point
•Upper Receiver: Mil-Spec with Indexing Marks and M4 Feed Ramps
•Barrel: Chrome Moly Vanadium Steel, Cold Hammer Forged, 1:7 twist, 16″ M4 Profile, Carbine Gas System, Chrome Lined, MP tested, and Mil-Spec Heavy Phosphate coated
•Chamber: 5.56 NATO
•Flash Hider: Daniel Defense Flash Suppressor (1.875")
•Bolt Carrier Group: Mil-Spec MP Tested, Properly Staked Gas Key
•Buffer: H Buffer
•Gas Block: Daniel Defense Pinned Low Profile Gas Block
•Handguard: Daniel Defense DDM4 Rail™ 9.0
•Butt Stock: MAGPUL MOE Butt Stock & Mil-Spec Receiver Extension
•Magazine: MAGPUL 30 round PMag in Black
•Vertical Grip: Daniel Defense A2 Styling Vertical Grip
•Rail Cover: (3) Daniel Defense low profile rail ladders
•Case: Comes with Custom Daniel Defense Full-Latch Impact Plastic Case
•Weight(no sights): 6lb 7.7oz
•Made in the USA!

Offline giaka

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Re: Colt or Daniel Defense?
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2013, 01:00:10 PM »
You are not going to go wrong either way (those are good prices) but my opinion is the DD is a better deal. You get a low profile gas block and a free float hand-guard. Yeah you have to add sights but that's not a bad thing really. I would rather pay more to not have the fixed sight up front and the free float guard. Then save my lunch money for a few weeks and add some nice Troy flip up sights.  :bigok: 

BTW I absolutely LOVE the HK style sights on my 9mm AR. 200% easier to use than the fixed setup on my BCM M4. In fact I am going to remove the fixed sight on my M4 and go with a low profile gas block and add the HK style Troy units in the near future.

There is just something easier in my mind for the shooter when all you have to do it put a circle inside a circle and the post on the target. I can hand my 9mm AR to a beginner and they are popping soda cans within 2 or 3 rounds at 30ish yards.   

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Offline SuperHans

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Re: Colt or Daniel Defense?
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2013, 01:22:14 PM »
Yeah, I feel like the DD is the better choice also. It's just it's a couple hundred more and then after I put the money into sights we are talking even more money. If I had the cash to burn it wouldn't be an issue and I would snap up the DD.

It's not that the DD is a bad deal, as I feel I'm getting moneys worth and I agree on the preference of the lack of a fixed front sight.

Offline misanthropist

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Re: Colt or Daniel Defense?
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2013, 05:33:11 PM »
I'll be the dissenting opinion here; both are excellent choices but I would take the Colt for a couple of reasons.

The DD is a very good rendition of an M4, reverse-engineered from existing guns and probably including some information from the accidentally-leaked TDP for the M4.  It has a great track record indicating that they did a very good job of working out the TDP spec range.

Colt did not reverse engineer their guns.  They OWN the TDP.  Any time you can go with the original, I say go for it.

The other reason I'd go with the Colt is that personally I prefer a fixed FSB.  It's not a huge deal to me and right now both my primary carbine and my backup have rail-mounted sights.  But the fixed FSB is more durable and all else being equal, I would rather have it with a cutout rail.

But if I had to go with the DD I wouldn't be even slightly concerned about it.   They're both great rifles. 
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Offline SuperHans

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Re: Colt or Daniel Defense?
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2013, 06:27:02 PM »
Interesting perspective on the Colt. Im not dead set against the fixed front site, I guess its more of an esthetics thing for me. The price is very tempting on the Colt.

Any thoughts on this rifle?

http://rowetactical.com/complete-rifles.aspx

A local gun shop is hawking them. I know there is no name recognition,  but hoped someone could comment based on the specifications.

Offline giaka

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Re: Colt or Daniel Defense?
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2013, 06:36:20 PM »

Any thoughts on this rifle?


Sounds like a good rifle to me. The trigger group, lower parts kit and pretty much everything else listed is good stuff. Beyond mil-spec I am sure.
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Offline misanthropist

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Re: Colt or Daniel Defense?
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2013, 07:20:51 PM »
Interesting perspective on the Colt. Im not dead set against the fixed front site, I guess its more of an esthetics thing for me. The price is very tempting on the Colt.

Any thoughts on this rifle?

http://rowetactical.com/complete-rifles.aspx

A local gun shop is hawking them. I know there is no name recognition,  but hoped someone could comment based on the specifications.


Nothing jumping out as a major red flag but I wouldn't take a billet receiver set over a forged one, personally.  7075 was adopted by Colt for the M16 specifically because they were using forgings and they had issues with forged 6061 (intergranular corrosion around the front pin in the wet Vietnam environment - basically a galvanic corrosion problem).

Not that a billet receiver would necessarily be worse than a forged one in 7075, just that the reason 7075 was spec'd had to do with forging, and I don't see billet as an advantage.

The barrel is good and the ALG trigger group is good.  CMMG and KNS...not stuff I'd run screaming away from but also nothing for which I'd pay a premium.

The VLTOR tube is 7075 but technically uses a different process in manufacture than an actual milspec tube.  Do I think there's anything wrong with it?  Probably not.  I have a VLTOR tube on one of my guns.

I would slightly question the standard-weight buffer.  My instinct would be to put an H in there.

All in all I wouldn't panic if someone tossed me one in the middle of a course (or gunfight) but if I could have a Colt for similar money I wouldn't even glance at that gun.
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Offline Mac

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Re: Colt or Daniel Defense?
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2013, 09:20:46 PM »
Is that Sam Colt and /or Jack Daniels?
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Offline SuperHans

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Re: Colt or Daniel Defense?
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2013, 07:38:20 AM »
I'm kind of leaning toward the Colt at the moment. I figure the couple of hundred extra I save I can put toward a Holo sight. Maybe an EOTech 512? the reviews I've read sound pretty good and I believe the military uses them.

Once again any thoughts on the EOTech? I don't have a lot of experince in general on this subject and want to make sure I'm getting something quality that will last a long time.

Offline misanthropist

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Re: Colt or Daniel Defense?
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2013, 02:35:42 PM »
The upside to the Eotech is that it's very fast.  The downside is that it eats batteries and has a much higher failure rate than its competitor, Aimpoint.

Both are in use with different groups within the US military; the aimpoints stay in use a lot longer.

Personally I find the aimpoint to be 99% as fast as the Eotech, and 1000% better in every other way.

I have a T1 I put on one of my rifles when I bought it a few years ago. I haven't turned it off yet.

Watch the DD torture test video some time. That's an Aimpoint.

I don't own Eotechs any more.
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Offline SuperHans

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Re: Colt or Daniel Defense?
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2013, 03:00:45 PM »
After making the post I spent some time on AR15.com and it seems that is the general consensus. I trust your opinion a long with Giaka and a few others. Don't know those guys so it's hard to judge who is full of shit.

Thanks for the input.

Offline giaka

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Re: Colt or Daniel Defense?
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2013, 06:34:44 PM »
I have an Eotech OpMod with the QD. It does not see rigid use at all and hopefully never will. I have yet to change the battery in it but it hasn't been used all that much. Its bright, its clear and everyone who has shot with it says its super easy to get on target and stay there. It works for me but I have also read that the Aim Point is "better". I will have to try one some day. But then again I do not plan on going to a war that will last more than 10 minutes with mine.   8)


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Offline misanthropist

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Re: Colt or Daniel Defense?
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2013, 08:48:08 PM »
Reading over my Aimpoint vs Eotech post it comes off as more anti-Eotech than I really am.  They are both pretty solid choices and I think the latest iteration is pretty good, but for a home defense gun I'd take the Aimpoint every time, if for no other reason than the fact that I don't ever shut it off.  I leave the dot on, fairly low, so that if I grab the gun in the dark it's not too bright to use effectively.

This is also part of the reason I like fixed sights.  If the light is good and for some reason I don't have time to adjust the brightness, I can still sight effectively through a red dot turned down too low to see in the sunlight.
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Offline SuperHans

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Re: Colt or Daniel Defense?
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2013, 05:55:43 AM »
I didnt see it as bashing the EOTech. I agree with Giaka that for most of us the EOTech will more than fit the bill. The long battery life of the Aimpoint is a very good selling point though. I do like the idea of being able to turn it on and leave it on for several years.