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Offline rgbeard

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The #1 threat to motorcycling
« on: May 28, 2014, 09:51:25 AM »
So, just in case y'all aren't paying attention, this is happening:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/05/google-builds-a-prototype-self-driving-car-sans-steering-wheel/

Will the kids being born today look in amazement that we used to have manually-operated vehicles? Will there be special MOV areas to keep us from interfering with automatically-operated vehicles?

How do motorcycles integrate in a self-driving vehicle world? Or do they?

We joke about cars like Honda Accords being complete appliances. This takes it to a whole new level. Once you've 100.0% "appliance-ized" transportation, is there any zeal for motorsport remaining?
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Re: The #1 threat to motorcycling
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2014, 10:00:17 AM »
unfortunately for the average person a vehicle is an appliance, merely a way to get from here to there. Of course since it is America there is always a little of the "mine is better than yours" mentality, but that is more and more about looks and comfort features than performance. I hope we never get to the point that we are no longer allowed to enjoy our vehicles.. but??
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Offline R Doug

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Re: The #1 threat to motorcycling
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2014, 10:01:14 AM »
I don't see where the rise of self driven cars would lead to the elimination of motorcycles anytime soon.  People would still want to ride. And, any legislation to stop the sell of them would be met with a pretty big resistance. 

In that case, I support these self driven vehicles.  It would make riding more safe, IMO, as self driven vehicles would be more predictable and would "see" us riders better than humans.   ;)


As for these types of cars, I would buy one.  It would be perfect for my commute as I would have the ability to be more productive with my time. 
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Re: The #1 threat to motorcycling
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2014, 10:03:22 AM »
I don't see where the rise of self driven cars would lead to the elimination of motorcycles anytime soon.  People would still want to ride. And, any legislation to stop the sell of them would be met with a pretty big resistance. 

In that case, I support these self driven vehicles.  It would make riding more safe, IMO, as self driven vehicles would be more predictable and would "see" us riders better than humans.   ;)


As for these types of cars, I would buy one.  It would be perfect for my commute as I would have the ability to be more productive with my time.

I think they would make sense is larger urban areas. for me the 7 mile, 12 minute commute to work isn't worth a specialized vehicle.  ;D
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Offline R Doug

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Re: The #1 threat to motorcycling
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2014, 10:05:14 AM »
I think they would make sense is larger urban areas. for me the 7 mile, 12 minute commute to work isn't worth a specialized vehicle.  ;D

Agree.

My 30 min commute (each way) would be great if I had one of these cars.  In theory, I could spend an hour less time in the office each day since I could sit in the back seat and work while the car took me too and from the office. 
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Offline Jim

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Re: The #1 threat to motorcycling
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2014, 10:06:32 AM »
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CNN's article:
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/28/business/google-driverless-cars/index.html

The realm of attention is narrowing down from the greater world to the device within arms length. Some day people might live life like the pods in the Matrix - no need to move, just have stimulation pumped directly into the brain.

Sadness... no true sensation of "the perfect shift", the enjoyment of a smoothly executed corner - at speed, the sensation of temperature swings dipping into a small valley and rising out again, the smells of cut grass or the pig farm, being easily able to stop on the shoulder's edge to enjoy some scenic view, the neighborly nod or wave to those like souls.
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Re: The #1 threat to motorcycling
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2014, 10:12:14 AM »
looking at the younger generation I can't help but think we are moving that direction. How many kids these days stare at an electronic device instead of enjoying the outdoors? How many play a fishing game instead of walking down to the lake, play a racing game instead of going to the track, play hunting games instead of heading to the woods, watch porn instead of actually getting laid?
 I think the days of the Matrix pods may be less science fiction than we think? obviously not in our lifetime, but who knows what may happen in a couple hundred years? I doubt any of the founding fathers would have dreamed we would be where we are today?
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Offline Max Wedge

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Re: The #1 threat to motorcycling
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2014, 10:41:05 AM »
My 30 min commute (each way) would be great if I had one of these cars.  In theory, I could spend an hour less time in the office each day since I could sit in the back seat and work while the car took me too and from the office.

The only way you would get me to work DURING my commute is if you paid me for my commute. 1 hour commute+6 hours at work+1 hour commute=8 hours.
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Online Black Hills

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Re: The #1 threat to motorcycling
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2014, 10:59:38 AM »
My 30 min commute (each way) would be great if I had one of these cars.  In theory, I could spend an hour less time in the office each day since I could sit in the back seat and work while the car took me too and from the office.

The only way you would get me to work DURING my commute is if you paid me for my commute. 1 hour commute+6 hours at work+1 hour commute=8 hours.

the joys of hourly pay.. maybe this salary thing is not all its cracked up to be....
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Offline R Doug

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Re: The #1 threat to motorcycling
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2014, 11:08:12 AM »
the joys of hourly pay.. maybe this salary thing is not all its cracked up to be....

No kidding.  I'm sure if I really put a pencil to it, I would use a number higher than the traditional 2,080* in the denominator to calculate my effective "hourly rate."   :( :-[ :'(

Regarding these cars, while I LOVE the hole experience of driving, communiting and long days of sterile highway travel do nothing for me other than bring frustration.  I'd rather have a computer do the work as I do other things for these types of automobile travel. 

For example, my normal cut off in hours driven on vacation vs. flying is about 7 to 9.  If I have to drive more than 9 hours, I'm going to book a flight.  If I had a car that could drive itself leaving me to read, study a foreign language, other, I'd do longer road trips to get to vacation spots in  a car like this.

Edit to add, that I currently make frequent trips to and from Atlanta for work.  Depending on the time of day, it could take me 5-7 hours of driving.  With a car like this, it would help alleviate the "pain" of being of of the office and being unproductive during that time.  By working during that time, I can avoid log jams on the desk that wait for me when I return.   >:(

*  2,080 is the normal annual workhours for a 5x40 employee
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Offline I'm NOT Carl

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Re: The #1 threat to motorcycling
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2014, 11:16:34 AM »
But motorcycling is a luxury activity. I was thinking about this on Sunday's ride. One comment I made was "why get a second motorcycle, just get a convertible and go on trips". But in thinking about it, part of the enjoyment of the trip is the preparation and the ride. I can't see taking the truck or car to Devil's Tower. You're in a box until you get there, stop, see the Tower, and go home. Meh. But riding the bike gets you into the environment. Experiencing the fog, the rain showers, the cooler weather, the smells!.

I suspect that even every car is autonomous, there will be a market for entertainment type vehicles. Boats, planes, motorcycles.

I read a story a few years back where teleportation was discovered and the story's father figured that with such an ease of travel, that all modes of transportation would be dropped. So he sold off all his stock in motorcycle companies. But there was a resurgence and increase in folks who ride motorcycles because it was a pleasure activity and not a necessity for getting to work or buying groceries.

So no, I don't think motorcycling will be impacted.

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Re: The #1 threat to motorcycling
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2014, 12:43:10 PM »
I think they would make sense is larger urban areas. for me the 7 mile, 12 minute commute to work isn't worth a specialized vehicle.  ;D
I don't see your point.
In your case, you could get to work and send the car home to take your wife to work or run errands or to recharge.
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Offline chornbe

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Re: The #1 threat to motorcycling
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2014, 12:49:13 PM »
But motorcycling is a luxury activity.

... in the USA. Other parts of the world, bikes are simply lower cost motor vehicles. On The Pace we interviewed a guy from India, and he was amazed at the level of toy and recreation here in the states. In India there are, literally, villages that pool together to buy a car and have a number of motorcycles because they're just smaller and cheaper and more accessible to buyers.

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Online Black Hills

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Re: The #1 threat to motorcycling
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2014, 01:17:11 PM »
I think they would make sense is larger urban areas. for me the 7 mile, 12 minute commute to work isn't worth a specialized vehicle.  ;D
I don't see your point.
In your case, you could get to work and send the car home to take your wife to work or run errands or to recharge.

it would work for my wife's commute, 35 mi. each way. but timing would prevent us from sharing it.
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Online Black Hills

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Re: The #1 threat to motorcycling
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2014, 01:17:57 PM »
But motorcycling is a luxury activity.

... in the USA. Other parts of the world, bikes are simply lower cost motor vehicles. On The Pace we interviewed a guy from India, and he was amazed at the level of toy and recreation here in the states. In India there are, literally, villages that pool together to buy a car and have a number of motorcycles because they're just smaller and cheaper and more accessible to buyers.

most Americans have no idea how good they have it. yet they cry for more?
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Offline chornbe

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Re: The #1 threat to motorcycling
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2014, 01:23:12 PM »

most Americans have no idea how good they have it. yet they cry for more?

Respectfully, and honestly - no offense to you in any way - I'm really not interested in hearing the in vogue, chic, politically correct, white-guilt anti-America rhetoric bullshit.

Just because I commented that we treat certain things like toys and how the rest of the world might see a few things differently, that doesn't mean I want to hear all the self-hating US bashing that seems to be what all the cool kids and neo-hipster douchebags think is cool these days.

I'm really sick of hearing things like "first world problems" and "Yeah, but 'over there' is so much worse" and "you've got it so good because of where you're born." Maybe. Maybe not. No one ever handed me shit, I'm basically one pay day away from squalor and years of hard work away from being just another bottom feeder, and that kind of talk really just makes me want to say "If that's how you feel (the general you, not you in particular), then go "over there" and make their lives better. Oh, not going? Then shut the F up and live your life and stop telling me how guilty I should feel for what I have."

Some of us actually worked our asses off to get anywhere at all. I'm sure you're one of them. I *KNOW* I am.

/rant

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Offline chornbe

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Re: The #1 threat to motorcycling
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2014, 01:24:58 PM »
Anyway, there's a whole lot of America that doesn't have it that good and it's *all* relative. What most Americans might not be aware of is how "bad" others have it elsewhere. Small but important distinction.
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Offline Jim

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Re: The #1 threat to motorcycling
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2014, 01:35:13 PM »
In the autonomous car for longer trips vs. airplane travel - we'll see cars with proper sleeping arrangements / BEDS as a selling point.

Desk-like workspaces will be rather popular too.

On my 15hour I-80 slog (CO to IL) 4x per year, I'd be happy to overnight each trip and sleep - giving me more daytime interaction with family and clients. It'd avoid rush hour as well!

Full circle - it's about the right tool for the task - though on topic, some may default to lower denominator and stay in the cocoon.
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Offline chornbe

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Re: The #1 threat to motorcycling
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2014, 01:36:58 PM »
Mods should probably delete those. That was a bit much. Sorry.  :facepalm:
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Re: The #1 threat to motorcycling
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2014, 01:37:51 PM »
LOL.... I'm far from a hipster or anything resembling cool. No offense to you (none taken here), but I am just tired of whiny ass bastards telling me how hard they have it here in America because they don't make $110k a year or can't afford another toy or a bigger house, etc, etc,etc.
 They will spend their whole life miserable because they had some bad luck or made a bad decision or whatever their excuse is for not attaining what they think they deserve. Happiness comes first for me and I am happy for what I have. Do I want more? sure, we all do. But, I will not let my desire for more interfere with my happiness. for now the balance is good.
The very fact we are having this discussion tell me you are far from "needy".  Enjoy life a little more, good luck
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Online Black Hills

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Re: The #1 threat to motorcycling
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2014, 01:39:39 PM »
Mods should probably delete those. That was a bit much. Sorry.  :facepalm:

no deleting mistakes in life my friend... that's the easy way out ;)

its all good for discussion and it shifted my thoughts slightly so why not stand by what you felt you had to say?
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Online viffergyrl

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Re: The #1 threat to motorcycling
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2014, 01:43:53 PM »

most Americans have no idea how good they have it. yet they cry for more?

Respectfully, and honestly - no offense to you in any way - I'm really not interested in hearing the in vogue, chic, politically correct, white-guilt anti-America rhetoric bullshit.

Just because I commented that we treat certain things like toys and how the rest of the world might see a few things differently, that doesn't mean I want to hear all the self-hating US bashing that seems to be what all the cool kids and neo-hipster douchebags think is cool these days.

I'm really sick of hearing things like "first world problems" and "Yeah, but 'over there' is so much worse" and "you've got it so good because of where you're born." Maybe. Maybe not. No one ever handed me shit, I'm basically one pay day away from squalor and years of hard work away from being just another bottom feeder, and that kind of talk really just makes me want to say "If that's how you feel (the general you, not you in particular), then go "over there" and make their lives better. Oh, not going? Then shut the F up and live your life and stop telling me how guilty I should feel for what I have."

Some of us actually worked our asses off to get anywhere at all. I'm sure you're one of them. I *KNOW* I am.

/rant

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Offline chornbe

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Re: The #1 threat to motorcycling
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2014, 01:47:42 PM »
I didn't mean to come off pissy, nor did I want you to think I was attacking you.

I really do entertain a lot of thoughts of throat punching people when I hear "first world problems"... usually by well dressed white guys driving $60,000 cars and trying to play like a common dude.  :facepalm:

Sorry.


Naaah... I'm going to quote you and tell you we have a special thread for this...  :blbl:

Damn it!  :baldy: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: The #1 threat to motorcycling
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2014, 01:54:57 PM »
I think they would make sense is larger urban areas. for me the 7 mile, 12 minute commute to work isn't worth a specialized vehicle.  ;D

Agree.

My 30 min commute (each way) would be great if I had one of these cars.  In theory, I could spend an hour less time in the office each day since I could sit in the back seat and work while the car took me too and from the office.

^^This. If these cars are safer than human-driven ones, I'd consider it. Save my attention for motorcycle rides on non-commute roads.  :smiley_thumb:

And Chris.... I do use the term 'first world problem' to drive home the fact that whatever it is, it really isn't a 'problem'; more like an inconvenience. It's the drama that people attach to every day inconveniences that makes me think 'Really? Get over yourself.'

Now get over your problem with first world problems....  :lol:
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Offline chornbe

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Re: The #1 threat to motorcycling
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2014, 01:58:05 PM »
Damn it, redux!  :lol:
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Re: The #1 threat to motorcycling
« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2014, 02:17:52 PM »
I didn't mean to come off pissy, nor did I want you to think I was attacking you.

I really do entertain a lot of thoughts of throat punching people when I hear "first world problems"... usually by well dressed white guys driving $60,000 cars and trying to play like a common dude.  :facepalm:

Sorry.



didn't offend me, we all have our own opinions. for the record I'm a jeans and T-shirt guy and drive a pickup ;D
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Re: The #1 threat to motorcycling
« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2014, 03:16:28 PM »
Hey, what's going in here?

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Re: The #1 threat to motorcycling
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2014, 04:29:46 PM »
I don't see it happening.  Too much revenue will be lost with cars driving themselves safely down the road.



Offline Slippin

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Re: The #1 threat to motorcycling
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2014, 06:06:45 PM »
I could see a future where for safety concerns only automated vehicles will be allowed on the road. Manual vehicles (cars and bikes) will be driven/ridden for the joy of the experience only on closed tracks. Similar to how horses were once the main mode of transportation, were replaced by cars and now are only ridden for the joy of the experience in closed areas.

Offline Jim

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Re: The #1 threat to motorcycling
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2014, 07:28:14 PM »
There it is: Tail of the Dragon, CA Hwy 1, etc. open ONLY to autonomous vehicles...

EDIT: Since driving is a privilege (vs. a right), it can easily change for the worse.
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