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Author Topic: Hayabusa Bearing Repair  (Read 7074 times)

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Offline I'm NOT Carl

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Hayabusa Bearing Repair
« on: May 10, 2014, 09:11:27 PM »
Since it doesn't exist without pictures, I have a few to share :)

A few years back my front end was making a weird sound and rubbing but only when I made a left turn. I went to a Colorado Sportbike Club Maintenance Day in part to learn more about proper suspension setup but also to see if anyone could figure out what the problem was with the front end. It took a brief ride up and down the street for someone to have an idea. Turns out the left bearing had bailed. The guy at the maintenance day actually knew what he was doing and he took care of getting replacement bearings (fully sealed this time) and dust seals. I came by to watch as he put the bearings back in so I was knowledgeable in case it happened again.

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The one on the right is the good one, well packed in bearing grease with the dust cover below it. The one on the right is missing a few bearings :)

Recently I had a similar issue. I was riding home and heard a click and slight bump bump bump. I pulled the front tire and the dust cover and look what I found:

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Almost exactly the same.

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Same here. The one on the is still just fine, still with the packing grease. The one on the left is in pieces :)  The top ring actually dropped into the center and over the spacer to shine it up.

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I chased down a set of replacement bearings on line (sealed again of course) and ordered a pair of new dust covers from the local dealer.

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Offline I'm NOT Carl

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Re: Hayabusa Bearing Repair
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2014, 09:20:47 PM »
With Jeanne's help, I put the new bearings and dust covers back on. I used a long threaded rod with washers and bolts to seat the bearings.

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The seat went in just a bit off kilter. I snagged a hammer and lightly tapped the edge to get it straight again and it slid right in.

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Looking good, ready for the other side. I decided to put the pressed seal on the outside thinking that if it failed, it might not slip inside and muck up the center piece again. Or I'm just a little OCD and decided it should be on the outside :)

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And the other side went on with ease.

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I tried to use the same washer and threads for the dust cover but it didn't work as well as I though. So I just lightly tapped it in on both sides with a hammer.

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Since I was trying to figure out how to remove the dust cover, I had removed the left side rotor. So I had to put it back together. No problem with some blue loc-tite

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I put the front wheel back on, again with Jeanne helping (she took most of the pics :) ).

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And away we went. Took a ride up into the mountains, down Peak to Peak to Nederland and back through Boulder to the bike dealer to get her a helmet and check out the C14.

:D

Carl
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Offline Jim

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Re: Hayabusa Bearing Repair
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2014, 10:12:33 PM »
Those bearings look NASTY!!
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Offline I'm NOT Carl

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Re: Hayabusa Bearing Repair
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2014, 11:19:43 PM »
Interesting that it takes losing almost half before you realize there's a problem. Heck, when I was checking it out, the right side didn't move at all but the left side had a 1/16" or so movement and only after I heard the slightest bit of rubbing.

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Offline Veefer800canuck

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Re: Hayabusa Bearing Repair
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2014, 09:12:50 AM »
Those bearings don't look like sealed bearings to me, at least not any I've seen.

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They look like SHIELDED bearings. Usually sealed bearings have two RUBBER seals, instead of metal shields.
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Offline Veefer800canuck

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Re: Hayabusa Bearing Repair
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2014, 09:14:42 AM »
Metal-Shielded bearing from the interwebs:

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Sealed bearing with rubber seals:

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« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 09:30:56 AM by Veefer800canuck »
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Offline Veefer800canuck

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Re: Hayabusa Bearing Repair
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2014, 09:18:36 AM »
Ball Bearing Guide To Rubber Seals Vs Metal Shields
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Bearing seals and shields have been available almost as long as Ball Bearing themselves. However, the move towards more integrated bearing structures has meant that their importance has grown, moving them from occasional add-on items to intrinsic parts of the ball bearings which they protect. In some applications, the seal or shield is becoming an integral part of the bearing design rather than an extra that is added later.
The main impetus towards sealed or shielded bearings comes from the growing use of sealed-for-life bearings in items such as white goods, cars and power tools. Seals or shields are needed to stop the grease lubrication used in these bearings from leaking out. This is particularly important in applications where grease leakage may contaminate the product.
In most operating environments though, the requirement is twofold: to keep the lubricant in the bearing, while stopping moisture, debris and other contaminants from getting in.
Of course, while the seals and shields are providing their protective functions, the ball
bearing is spinning, often at high speed. If its operating life is to be maximised, one factor that needs to be considered is the frictional effect of the seal or shield on the bearing starting and running torques.
Technical literature on seals and shields often blurs the differences between the two and the areas where one or the other should
be used. Essentially, shields are non-contact metallic (carbon or stainless steel) devices which allow high-speed operation but offer limited protection against the ingress of moisture and dirt.
Shields have no contact with the bearing inner ring, hence their low torque qualities. This structure also means that they are generally unsuitable for applications where the ingress of moisture is possible. But shields are better than seals at resisting damage from solid airborne contaminants, such as small flying stones.
Seals can be either contact or non-contact types. The former provide better protection than shields, but with reduced speed capabilities, while the latter can be used at higher speeds as well as offering the improved protection.
The most significant developments in recent years have taken place in the area of seals. Traditionally, ball bearing seals have been contact types made of rubber, usually with a metal backing. On smaller bearings, the seal is often made of glass-reinforced Teflon and is fitted using a snap ring.
Both types are effective at keeping out water, liquids and fine particles. However, the speed at which the bearings can rotate is constrained by the friction between the seals and the bearing inner ring.
The precise fit of standard contact seals means that a small vent hole is needed to ensure that a build-up of pressure in the bearing does not "pop" the seals and release the lubricant.
The challenge in recent years has been to develop seals which combine high levels of
sealing with the high-speed capabilities of shields. NSK, for example, developed its V type seal for this purpose. In contrast to conventional seals, these non-contact devices are held in the outer ring of a bearing by the elasticity of the rubber seal material. With this design, friction is not a problem, so the bearings can be used at similar high speeds to those fitted with shields. However, compared to shields, V-type seals provide better grease sealing efficiency and resistance to fine dust particles.
V-type seals were originally developed for use on computer spindles, where high reliability and quiet operation are essential. Their use has since extended to many other applications. For instance, they have helped to ensure that the world long-track speedway champion has not experienced a single bearing failure on his bikes for four years.
Falling between the standard contact seal
and V-seals is a newly developed class of light-contact seals which allow high-speed operation - although not as fast as shields or V-type seals. However, these seals (known as DW) perform far better in terms of moisture and dirt ingress protection.
They also offer advantages over the standard contact seals. The support for the main seal lip is long and thin, resulting in light-contact and low-torque operation. Starting torque is approximately half that of a standard seal, and running torque is also lower. In addition, the main lip touches the beveled portion of the inner ring seal groove where, if there is centrifugal force, dust is moved outwards. These seals therefore offer good dust resistance.
The main ring also has outward contact with the inner ring seal groove, so internal pressure does not open the seal and allow grease leakage to contaminate a process or impair the long-term operation of the bearing itself.
The trend towards sealed-for-life bearings has almost created a situation where the primary function of a seal is to retain grease rather than to stop contaminants getting in. This is certainly the case in "clean" applications such as in white goods and integrated automotive parts.
However, in adverse operating environments, the primary function of the seal reverts to protection. Often in such conditions, the protection provided by the standard seals is insufficient and specially developed types must be used.
In the most arduous environments, triple-lip seals can be fitted to protect a bearing and extend its life. These seals offer the highest levels of protection with three sealing lips making contact with the bearing inner ring. This configuration results in lower operating speeds, but in typical applications such as
agricultural machinery, this is not usually a problem.
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Offline Veefer800canuck

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Re: Hayabusa Bearing Repair
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2014, 09:21:16 AM »
So short story long, I think they are going to fail again.

Also, instead of using the threaded rod and washers, you can cut a slot all the way through the old outer bearing race and use it to drive the new bearing into place.

If they are not FULLY seated into the wheel, they will bind when the axle is done up, and the bearings will be sideloaded and burn up in no time flat.

Also, your axle or spacer looks kinda ferked in one of the pics above.
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Offline Veefer800canuck

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Re: Hayabusa Bearing Repair
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2014, 09:27:06 AM »
It looks like they take a 6205 bearing, and the common suffix is -2RS, meaning 2 Rubber Seals.

Different Mfgrs use different suffixes to denote 2 rubber seals, so best to check them.
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Offline Veefer800canuck

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Re: Hayabusa Bearing Repair
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2014, 09:29:54 AM »
I'll stop post whoring after this one. This is my steering head bearings, but you can use the same techinque for wheel bearings too.

Note the old slotted race, this allows easy removal after driving the new bearing home. Using a heavy hammer and a steady hand, you can easily tell when they are driven in to depth due to the change in the tone of the hammer.

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Offline I'm NOT Carl

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Re: Hayabusa Bearing Repair
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2014, 10:17:03 AM »
Thanks. Nothing said what the RS meant. With seemingly same designation and pretty varying costs, I settled on the one with the certification. Heck, from the pics, I thought the steel one was better than the rubber one.

Carl
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Offline I'm NOT Carl

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Re: Hayabusa Bearing Repair
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2014, 10:34:07 AM »
Oh and this is twice in 130,000 miles. I'll make a note and at 180,000 or so will replace them again :D

Carl
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Offline st2sam

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Re: Hayabusa Bearing Repair
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2014, 04:17:35 PM »
Whoa, what a great thread.
I have over 50,000mi. on my C14 and figure to replace the bearings next winter.
So thanks Carl for starting and thanks Rob for contributing here.

OK, after putting two & two together, would buying Kawasaki OEM bearings be a good choice?
I'm thinking that might work best? (for me)
And Carl, just wondering why you didn't replace with OEM Suzuki bearings?
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Offline I'm NOT Carl

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Re: Hayabusa Bearing Repair
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2014, 05:29:46 PM »
The OEM ones don't have a shield. The first time, the guy who helped suggested the steel ones (sealed) so when I replaced them this time, I went with the same as last time. Next time I'll read my blog and know exactly which ones to get. :)

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Offline I'm NOT Carl

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Re: Hayabusa Bearing Repair
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2014, 06:37:20 AM »
So short story long, I think they are going to fail again.

Also, instead of using the threaded rod and washers, you can cut a slot all the way through the old outer bearing race and use it to drive the new bearing into place.

What would be the benefit of using one over the other? I used what the last guy used. It seemed simple enough and worked unless I missed something. I centered the washers so they were pushing on the outside race vs trying to push the bearings out.

Quote
If they are not FULLY seated into the wheel, they will bind when the axle is done up, and the bearings will be sideloaded and burn up in no time flat.

I ran them down until they were snug. They seem okay.

Quote
Also, your axle or spacer looks kinda ferked in one of the pics above.

It's actually just scraped up from the ring falling through. The spacer part itself seems to be just fine.

And again, I will make notes in my blog posting so I'm better next time. I do have the old races so if using them is better than using washers, I can certainly change how I'm doing things. In this case, I watched the last guy do the work so I tried to follow his lead on how to do it myself. It all seems okay from taking a ride on Saturday though.

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Offline Veefer800canuck

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Re: Hayabusa Bearing Repair
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2014, 09:11:11 AM »
 Ordinary hardware store washers might flex when you tighten the bearings into place and I'm not certain you would get the bearings firmly seated in the wheel?

Perhaps you would, but if they are a few thou away from being seated then the balls will be sideloaded when you tighten the assembly, and that will wear them fast.

But, since you said you got xx,xxx thousand miles out of the last set, I guess it's working OK.

At least with the gentle hammer and race method, when the bearings seat, the change in the "ring" lets you know 100% that they are seated ALL the way. In my experience, of course.

YMMV.
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Re: Hayabusa Bearing Repair
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2014, 10:01:08 AM »
easiest way I have found to install bearing is to put them in the freezer overnight. then heat the hub with a propane torch and they should drop right in, sometimes a little tap around the edge with a wooden dowel is needed.

as for the failure since it is a street bike I assume you haven't been riding it through water above the axle? do you wash it with a high pressure wand? if so you may want to stay away from he bearings in the future.
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Offline I'm NOT Carl

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Re: Hayabusa Bearing Repair
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2014, 10:08:02 AM »
Ordinary hardware store washers might flex when you tighten the bearings into place and I'm not certain you would get the bearings firmly seated in the wheel?

Heh, there are three steel washers on each side if that helps :)   I was hesitant to do must more than a quick scrape in the seat area for the bearings. Should the seat in hub be mirror clean?

Quote
Perhaps you would, but if they are a few thou away from being seated then the balls will be sideloaded when you tighten the assembly, and that will wear them fast.

But, since you said you got xx,xxx thousand miles out of the last set, I guess it's working OK.

Yep, 130,000 so for with the bearings changed twice. I don't have a problem replacing them if I'm doing something wrong though. I'm considering it just to get the proper bearings anyway. It's not an onerous task by any means.

Quote
At least with the gentle hammer and race method, when the bearings seat, the change in the "ring" lets you know 100% that they are seated ALL the way. In my experience, of course.

I'm with you on that. And it is the experience that we're going by here. Mine was with the threaded rod and washers. :)

Carl
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Offline I'm NOT Carl

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Re: Hayabusa Bearing Repair
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2014, 10:09:56 AM »
easiest way I have found to install bearing is to put them in the freezer overnight. then heat the hub with a propane torch and they should drop right in, sometimes a little tap around the edge with a wooden dowel is needed.

as for the failure since it is a street bike I assume you haven't been riding it through water above the axle? do you wash it with a high pressure wand? if so you may want to stay away from he bearings in the future.

I did the freezer thing letting them sit for a week. They were slipping around though when I was trying to get them into the hub :)

And no on the ride through water above the axle and don't use a high pressure wand. I do ride in the rain and snow though.

In this case the left side is the one that failed. On the last pair, the right side failed. Don't know if it makes a difference, thought I'd mention it.

Carl
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Re: Hayabusa Bearing Repair
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2014, 10:23:03 AM »
easiest way I have found to install bearing is to put them in the freezer overnight. then heat the hub with a propane torch and they should drop right in, sometimes a little tap around the edge with a wooden dowel is needed.

as for the failure since it is a street bike I assume you haven't been riding it through water above the axle? do you wash it with a high pressure wand? if so you may want to stay away from he bearings in the future.

I did the freezer thing letting them sit for a week. They were slipping around though when I was trying to get them into the hub :)

And no on the ride through water above the axle and don't use a high pressure wand. I do ride in the rain and snow though.

In this case the left side is the one that failed. On the last pair, the right side failed. Don't know if it makes a difference, thought I'd mention it.

Carl

hmm.. that does seem odd?
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Re: Hayabusa Bearing Repair
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2014, 04:11:41 PM »
easiest way I have found to install bearing is to put them in the freezer overnight. then heat the hub with a propane torch and they should drop right in, sometimes a little tap around the edge with a wooden dowel is needed.

This.  I never bothered with the torch though, just left the wheel sitting in the sun to heat prior to assembly. Dropped right in.

LT
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Re: Hayabusa Bearing Repair
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2014, 04:38:53 PM »
easiest way I have found to install bearing is to put them in the freezer overnight. then heat the hub with a propane torch and they should drop right in, sometimes a little tap around the edge with a wooden dowel is needed.

This.  I never bothered with the torch though, just left the wheel sitting in the sun to heat prior to assembly. Dropped right in.

LT

yep. if you are quick (and have them lined up right) it is way simple.
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Offline Dan K

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Re: Hayabusa Bearing Repair
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2014, 01:39:12 PM »
Why heat the hub when inserting the bearings? Wouldn't you also want the hub cold so there is more room to get the bearings in there?

Great thread by the way. It really is all ball bearings these days...

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Re: Hayabusa Bearing Repair
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2014, 02:53:50 PM »
Why heat the hub when inserting the bearings? Wouldn't you also want the hub cold so there is more room to get the bearings in there?

Great thread by the way. It really is all ball bearings these days...

 _Dan

Heat expands, cold contracts. Make the bearing smaller, and the hole in the hub bigger, so the 'fit' has more room-until the temps equalize.
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Re: Hayabusa Bearing Repair
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2014, 03:47:55 PM »
Why heat the hub when inserting the bearings? Wouldn't you also want the hub cold so there is more room to get the bearings in there?

Great thread by the way. It really is all ball bearings these days...

 _Dan

Heat expands, cold contracts. Make the bearing smaller, and the hole in the hub bigger, so the 'fit' has more room-until the temps equalize.

exactly, which by the way happens quickly ;D
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