Sport-Touring

The Club House => Manufacturer Row => Harley-Davidson => Topic started by: HipGnosis on May 11, 2020, 09:42:30 PM

Title: New CEO, new plans - maybe
Post by: HipGnosis on May 11, 2020, 09:42:30 PM
I can't find a 'valid' source for this, but...
this was posted on FB;
2021 Harley-Davidsons Delayed!│3 Discontinued Models│Pan America and Bronx on Hold
https://youtu.be/JFFRk_vEOYQ
Title: Re: New CEO, new plans - maybe
Post by: Meemuh on May 11, 2020, 10:44:53 PM
Not real surprising I guess - although the article title made the "delay" sound a little worse than it is.  Moving the model year switch from late 2020 to early 2021 shouldn't be too big of a deal.
But I really hope they don't go away all together.
Title: Re: New CEO, new plans - maybe
Post by: Prubert on May 12, 2020, 06:37:15 PM
There are a lot of things changing at the MoCo.  Jochen has been shakin’ It up and things are changing.

The model launch is moving from Aug to Jan permanently.  The launch of the new bikes will come in early next year (2021). 

Not surprising since production has been down for 2 months and HDMC is making very little $$.
Title: Re: New CEO, new plans - maybe
Post by: naustin on May 13, 2020, 07:56:29 AM
Well, I guess that gives BMW time to figure out how to put highway pegs on the R18.

Harley can't afford to cancel the PanAmerican.  That thing needs to be a home run.   I hope it is.   Its the first time since Buell was snuffed that I've thought about visiting an HD dealership.
Title: Re: New CEO, new plans - maybe
Post by: HipGnosis on May 13, 2020, 08:47:38 AM
Harley can't afford to cancel the PanAmerican.  That thing needs to be a home run.   I hope it is.   Its the first time since Buell was snuffed that I've thought about visiting an HD dealership.
Umm... isn't a harley-weight adv bike a Ronco-esk over-reach?  Or, is adv a 'style' now, kinda like cafe's?
Title: Re: New CEO, new plans - maybe
Post by: HipGnosis on May 13, 2020, 08:49:05 AM
Harley can't afford to cancel the PanAmerican.  That thing needs to be a home run.   I hope it is.   Its the first time since Buell was snuffed that I've thought about visiting an HD dealership.
Umm... isn't a harley-weight adv bike a Ronco-esk over-reach?  Or, is adv a 'style' now, kinda like cafe's?
And...  what's your opinion of the Indian FTR?
Title: Re: New CEO, new plans - maybe
Post by: radon222 on May 13, 2020, 09:26:11 AM
Quote
Or, is adv a 'style' now, kinda like cafe's?

As an owner of 2 GSA's and a Vstrom I can unequivocally say YES.   ;D
Title: Re: New CEO, new plans - maybe
Post by: naustin on May 13, 2020, 11:03:18 AM
Harley can't afford to cancel the PanAmerican.  That thing needs to be a home run.   I hope it is.   Its the first time since Buell was snuffed that I've thought about visiting an HD dealership.
Umm... isn't a harley-weight adv bike a Ronco-esk over-reach?  Or, is adv a 'style' now, kinda like cafe's?

I have no doubt Harley is capable of building an ADV style bike to rival the GS1250.   There's no reason the Pan America should be any heavier or less capable.    It remains to be seen whether they actually do it, however.
Title: Re: New CEO, new plans - maybe
Post by: Black Hills on May 13, 2020, 11:06:31 AM



I have no doubt Harley is capable of building an ADV style bike to rival the GS1250.   There's no reason the Pan America should be any heavier or less capable.    It remains to be seen whether they actually do it, however.

have you ridden a Harley and a GS?  You have far more faith in them than I do.
Title: Re: New CEO, new plans - maybe
Post by: Baxter on May 13, 2020, 11:10:55 AM
Maybe I said this elsewhere, but I'd really like for Harley to step out and become a full range manufacturer.  It seems as if they can't make a bike that isn't somehow just a variant of a cruiser without it eventually disappearing. Buell came close, but was withdrawn.  There was a Sporty flat-tracker that was the only H-D I ever found comfortable (but it was too tall), it didn't sell.  The V-Rod was really just a 1950's era futurist's prediction of what a cruiser might look like one day.  The Street series is promising, but I still can't turn it into exactly what I want.  And this year they even quit selling Sporty's with the reasonable 4.5 gallon gas tank (for the money, I want more range than the present Sporty lineup).  The rest of their line is heavier and physically larger than I prefer (tiny garage).

I'd consider them if they would actually make a bike for me.  I can take a couple of their models and explain what it would take for me to buy one, but the changes generally are not what the aftermarket can provide or are unreasonably expensive.

Perhaps the issue is that they only listen to existing Harley owners? 

But maybe it's me.  Nobody makes a bike exactly as I want at any price. It's a matter of which compromises I'm willing to make.

Mind you, it's not just Harley.  Indian makes many variants of the Scout, but not one has a decent range.  And many dealers say that a larger tank has been a strong customer demand since it's introduction.
Title: Re: New CEO, new plans - maybe
Post by: garry on May 13, 2020, 11:33:04 AM
While I'm not in the market for a Harley, I do think the Bronx is interesting and hope it does well for them. I have no idea how it compares on specs and price with other brands/models, but it looks the part.
Title: Re: New CEO, new plans - maybe
Post by: naustin on May 13, 2020, 11:38:55 AM



I have no doubt Harley is capable of building an ADV style bike to rival the GS1250.   There's no reason the Pan America should be any heavier or less capable.    It remains to be seen whether they actually do it, however.

have you ridden a Harley and a GS?  You have far more faith in them than I do.

I have ridden Harley's and I owned a Buell S3T.   Might have bought a Ulysses if HD hadn't pulled the plug and walked Buell off the gang-plank.   I have not ridden the new 1250 GS.    I'll grant it's the benchmark and sales leader for a reason, and an extremely nice bike.  But its just a twin cylinder motorcycle in an all around refined package with a great reputation.   It's not like it is a featherweight with oval pistons.   The Triumph Tiger might even be the better bike.   

My point is, no other manufacturer has more money, resources and incentive to build a bike to take on the GS than HD.  If Triumph can field the Tiger, why can't HD make the Pan American light enough to compete?   "Because Pirates" - is not a reason.  "Because Poor Management" unfortunately, might be.
Title: Re: New CEO, new plans - maybe
Post by: Black Hills on May 13, 2020, 11:41:53 AM
Exactly! It's not that they can't but more they won't. just think if the water colled V-4 they made back in the 80's or 90's would have been put into production, where could that be now?

Buell was a perfect example, they were just starting to legitimately compete with the other sportbikes and "oops, you're not really our thing bye"
Title: Re: New CEO, new plans - maybe
Post by: Baxter on May 13, 2020, 12:31:36 PM
Exactly! It's not that they can't but more they won't. just think if the water colled V-4 they made back in the 80's or 90's would have been put into production, where could that be now?

Buell was a perfect example, they were just starting to legitimately compete with the other sportbikes and "oops, you're not really our thing bye"

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: New CEO, new plans - maybe
Post by: Skee on May 13, 2020, 01:05:20 PM

Perhaps the issue is that they only listen to existing Harley owners? 


I believe the converse is also true.   Existing Harley owners only want cruisers because that is predominantly what the Motor Company has always produced.  They are loyal to a fault.

That marketing base won’t change overnight.  Harley gave up on Bluell too soon.

I heard a lot of interest in the new models from the HD club at work, but those guys aren’t going to rush out in the next 2 or 3 years and buy a new model.  It takes persistence.  And i think management was looking for a quick victory to keep them on top.
Title: Re: New CEO, new plans - maybe
Post by: Black Hills on May 13, 2020, 01:09:00 PM


I believe the converse is also true.   Existing Harley owners only want cruisers because that is predominantly what the Motor Company has always produced.  They are loyal to a fault.



^ This, the very reason they gave up on Buell and and the V-rod
Title: Re: New CEO, new plans - maybe
Post by: Prubert on May 13, 2020, 01:10:28 PM
Not to worry, the Pan America will not be a 700lb/100 hp bike.  It is going to be comparable to the other big ADV bikes out there and will even have some 1st in class tech on it. 

HD is also investing heavily in the Dealer network to train them what these new segments are and are not.  They know what happened to most people that went in the stores looking for a Buell back in the day, and are going to help the dealers avoid these errors for the new platform.   That training started last Jan and will continue on until the bikes launch.

It does suck we have to wait a little longer...

Later!
Title: Re: New CEO, new plans - maybe
Post by: R Doug on May 13, 2020, 01:27:12 PM
I've love to see the Bronx with the ability to add side cases like a BMW R1250R.   That' would be a great "sport" touring rig.
Title: Re: New CEO, new plans - maybe
Post by: HipGnosis on May 13, 2020, 01:27:31 PM
Not to worry, the Pan America will not be a 700lb/100 hp bike.  It is going to be comparable to the other big ADV bikes out there and will even have some 1st in class tech on it. 

HD is also investing heavily in the Dealer network to train them what these new segments are and are not.  They know what happened to most people that went in the stores looking for a Buell back in the day, and are going to help the dealers avoid these errors for the new platform.   That training started last Jan and will continue on until the bikes launch.

It does suck we have to wait a little longer...

Later!
That's good to hear
Title: Re: New CEO, new plans - maybe
Post by: Black Hills on May 13, 2020, 01:29:57 PM
I hope it works out, the Harley crowd is an odd bunch (in my opinion based on locals and the annual Rally crowd) the don't like metric cruisers, Buells, or V-rods in that order but don;t seem to be offended by sportbikes or ADV bikes?? I don't get it?
Title: Re: New CEO, new plans - maybe
Post by: HipGnosis on May 13, 2020, 01:47:40 PM
I found an article;
https://www.rideapart.com/articles/422833/harley-davidson-panamerica-bronx-launch-delay/ (https://www.rideapart.com/articles/422833/harley-davidson-panamerica-bronx-launch-delay/)
Title: Re: New CEO, new plans - maybe
Post by: Baxter on May 13, 2020, 01:53:08 PM
I hope it works out, the Harley crowd is an odd bunch (in my opinion based on locals and the annual Rally crowd) the don't like metric cruisers, Buells, or V-rods in that order but don;t seem to be offended by sportbikes or ADV bikes?? I don't get it?

Maybe it's because sportbike and ADV riders get a pass because they're so different as to not be competing with the Harley brotherhood.  But riding a cruiser that's not a Harley, well that's kinda like a betrayal of the core moral values according to the keepers of the sacred flame.  Similarly, Buells and V-Rods were aberrations to be shunned.
Title: Re: New CEO, new plans - maybe
Post by: Black Hills on May 13, 2020, 02:46:49 PM
that must be it..
Title: Re: New CEO, new plans - maybe
Post by: naustin on May 13, 2020, 03:10:49 PM
Not to worry, the Pan America will not be a 700lb/100 hp bike.  It is going to be comparable to the other big ADV bikes out there and will even have some 1st in class tech on it. 

HD is also investing heavily in the Dealer network to train them what these new segments are and are not.  They know what happened to most people that went in the stores looking for a Buell back in the day, and are going to help the dealers avoid these errors for the new platform.   That training started last Jan and will continue on until the bikes launch.

It does suck we have to wait a little longer...

Later!

You have direct insight that I do not.    :bigok:   

Based on what I've seen so far, I think the Pan America is the real deal.   Its not a CRF450R, and its not supposed to be.  You probably wouldn't take the GSA on the TAT, either.    Its designed to ride to Tuktoyaktuk or Prudhoe Bay, and my money says its going to be legit.   We shall see.   I think there are just as many HD loyalists who dream about riding to Alaska as all the GS Adventures sold in the world.   And BMW doesn't have a dealership in every medium to small town in the country like HD does.   

They might just strike oil.  All motorcyclists benefit when HD is strong.  I really hope its successful!

Gotta admit though the Tenere 700 has my attention.   I could ride the FJR to Prudhoe.  Its been done.   ;D  https://www.roadracingworld.com/news/yamaha-rider-breaks-record-for-traversing-north-america/ (https://www.roadracingworld.com/news/yamaha-rider-breaks-record-for-traversing-north-america/)

Title: Re: New CEO, new plans - maybe
Post by: radon222 on May 21, 2020, 09:14:08 AM
Pretty good and honest video about the Pan America 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvLOUB-yh4s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvLOUB-yh4s)
Title: Re: New CEO, new plans - maybe
Post by: naustin on May 21, 2020, 01:50:28 PM
See I disagree with the “ugly” judgement.  I think it’s one of the better looking adventure bikes, and I don’t mind the nod to the Road glide. The shark nose DNA is cool, and I’m not a Harley guy.  And least it doesn’t carry its fuel in a pair of saggy grandma tits like the new KTM, or have a ginormous fake beak.
Title: Re: New CEO, new plans - maybe
Post by: Vulcanbill on May 22, 2020, 07:53:43 PM
Grandma's need love too
Title: Re: New CEO, new plans - maybe
Post by: Skee on May 27, 2020, 07:34:42 AM
Interesting perspective in light of the recent changes at HD.

Harley-Davidson: In A Post-Corona World, Keep Your Customers Close (https://www.forbes.com/sites/larrylight/2020/05/26/harley-davidson-in-a-post-corona-world-keep-your-customers-close/#75c93a0f487d)
Title: Re: New CEO, new plans - maybe
Post by: Skee on June 15, 2020, 10:11:34 PM
While this is not necessarily bad news for the new CEO, it is further evidence of The Motor Company's decline.  Harley-Davidson to be removed from S&P 500 (https://biztimes.com/harley-davidson-removed-from-sp-500/) and placed in the S&P MidCap 400 on June 22.  This may allow Zeitz (the new CEO) to implement some long-term changes without the intense focus on maintaining short term performance.
Title: Re: New CEO, new plans - maybe
Post by: naustin on June 16, 2020, 07:08:17 AM
I could only choke down about 1/2 that article (The Forbes one).   I kept skimming ahead hoping to see some glimmer of intelligent thought - but it just kept getting worse.