Sport-Touring

The Lounge => Off Topic Discussion => Topic started by: zer0netgain on February 29, 2020, 08:35:46 AM

Title: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on February 29, 2020, 08:35:46 AM
Food for thought.

https://youtu.be/hKJGKxsDhvo
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on February 29, 2020, 09:21:58 AM
In absolute numbers, it's a fraction of a percent - SO FAR - in total cases compared to the flu. In that regard, it's statistically insignificant across the world. On mainland China, the concentrations are noteworthy.

2% mortality rate if not treated compared to the .1% mortality rate of the flu. In that regard, it's far, far more deadly than the flu that kills thousands and thousands every year. By the percentages.

It is, however, a much more fragile and easily treated bug than flu, in general terms.

Good hygiene is paramount. As is early detection, but its incubation can be up to three weeks without symptoms.

In short, wash your hands, don't stick things in moist places in strangers, and generally get good rest, clean up after yourself, etc.

Don't panic. Be vigilant. Stay away from buffets.

And don't panic.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: st2sam on February 29, 2020, 10:23:10 AM
, don't stick things in moist places in strangers,

  :snork:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on February 29, 2020, 10:29:33 AM
It is, however, a much more fragile and easily treated bug than flu, in general terms.

Is it? So far everything I've read is that they don't know enough about the Covid 19 virus to really make any definite conclusions like this.

And don't panic.

This is the correct answer.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on February 29, 2020, 11:52:00 AM
I’ve read some things about it being “highly reactive” to various common disinfectants, sanitizers, cleaners, etc., so it’s easy to sanitize for it. I should have been clearer on that. I don’t know about it’s resistance to antiviral meds, etc.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on February 29, 2020, 12:00:54 PM
I’ve read some things about it being “highly reactive” to various common disinfectants, sanitizers, cleaners, etc., so it’s easy to sanitize for it. I should have been clearer on that. I don’t know about it’s resistance to antiviral meds, etc.

 :thumbsup:

It is big in the news here, since we keep getting cases from people who were recently in Italy  ???

And Switzerland did something unusual: the Federal government completely overstepped the rights of the individual cantons and declared that all gatherings of over 1,000 people are banned. This means that Basel Fasnacht, our biggest and most celebrated carnival that was due to start Monday morning, has been cancelled and all related activities are forbidden   :'(

Meanwhile, the Swiss (federal and local) government is heavily promoting hygiene (washing hands, covering your cough, etc), and some big companies (like the one I work at) have put out travel restrictions for work purposes.

Anyway, I am very aware of this because it is in my town. If you want some global numbers, this is a very comprehensive website (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/) that might prove interesting
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on February 29, 2020, 12:59:06 PM
A friend of mine's son arrived home from China  (he lives in one of the affected areas) last week.

Saw him, by chance, tonight. He was boasting about how he had got into the UK without checks because he changed flights at Frankfurt. He has not self-isolated or taken any steps to ensure he is not contagious. He is not symptomatic, which means nothing.

There will be a lot more self-entitled twats around the world, just like him.

We don't know enough about this virus yet. Experts aren't even sure of the incubation period: 2 weeks, perhaps 3. It will kill more people, although the death rate is %-wise low, and it sounds highly contagious. No, it's not the killer influenza can be but it seems to spread fairly easily. As a health worker, I am very worried about my patients, almost all of whom have health problems (as well as mental illness).

On the lighter side, except for Mexican brewers, has anyone seen the share price of Corona beer?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on February 29, 2020, 01:53:10 PM
I’ve read some things about it being “highly reactive” to various common disinfectants, sanitizers, cleaners, etc., so it’s easy to sanitize for it. I should have been clearer on that. I don’t know about it’s resistance to antiviral meds, etc.

 :thumbsup:

It is big in the news here, since we keep getting cases from people who were recently in Italy  ???

And Switzerland did something unusual: the Federal government completely overstepped the rights of the individual cantons and declared that all gatherings of over 1,000 people are banned. This means that Basel Fasnacht, our biggest and most celebrated carnival that was due to start Monday morning, has been cancelled and all related activities are forbidden   :'(

Meanwhile, the Swiss (federal and local) government is heavily promoting hygiene (washing hands, covering your cough, etc), and some big companies (like the one I work at) have put out travel restrictions for work purposes.

Anyway, I am very aware of this because it is in my town. If you want some global numbers, this is a very comprehensive website (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/) that might prove interesting

I like that website. Thanks. I'm going to spread it around.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on February 29, 2020, 02:11:44 PM

2% mortality rate if not treated compared to the .1% mortality rate of the flu. In that regard, it's far, far more deadly than the flu that kills thousands and thousands every year. By the percentages.


Here's my TLDR:

When I get to talk to actual epidemiologists, they're guessing that 2% rate is probably the upper bound. It's based on Wuhan numbers and the large area quarantine probably inflates the numerator. They realized kind of late in the game in Wuhan that a lot of cases are mild and interpreted as colds or are asymptomatic and that deflates the denominator.

The Korean fatality rate is closer to 1%, the numbers are probably pretty good, but they figure they've also missed a lot of mild or asymptomatic cases, so the actual fatality rate will probably turn out to be even lower. But 1% is still 10 times the normal flu and that kills between 12,000 and 65,000 per year (since 2010) in the U.S. alone. So a lot of folks will die but there's still no reason to panic. What happens every year from the flu is pretty freaking tragic but we barely register it.

If they're right that the actual fatality rate upper bound is somewhere between 1 and 2%, then the numbers from Italy are a bummer and the ones from Iran are terrifying. Italy reports a death rate of around 3.6%. Researchers trust the Italians' ability to count and to release accurate numbers. That means the problem is in the denominator -- meaning, in a best case scenario, they've found only 50% of the actual people infected. The rest are out there creating new vectors. Iran is reporting a death rate of 33%. Researchers think their numbers are pretty much garbage, but if they're anywhere close to accurate, they haven't located the large majority of infected. And the outbreak there started in a Shi'a pilgrimage site. Draw your own conclusions.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on February 29, 2020, 06:51:16 PM
There will be a lot more self-entitled twats around the world, just like him.

Did he lick any elevator buttons while he was over there?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: bedlamite on February 29, 2020, 09:10:31 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVQC1hAYZBs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVQC1hAYZBs)


Asymptomatic for up o 3 weeks while contagious.

10-15% hospitalized

5% in ICU

All the medical supplies that hospitals will need are not coming from China.

Our medical system cannot handle this. They are understaffed under normal circumstances, and this is going to hit us hard.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on February 29, 2020, 09:28:19 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVQC1hAYZBs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVQC1hAYZBs)


Asymptomatic for up o 3 weeks while contagious.

10-15% hospitalized

5% in ICU

All the medical supplies that hospitals will need are not coming from China.

Our medical system cannot handle this. They are understaffed under normal circumstances, and this is going to hit us hard.

So he's using the same site as MrsDantesDame posted above. There is also data on that same site showing that about half the cases have resolved and left a living human being free to go home. In addition there is analysis of those who have died. It's mostly old people with pre-existing conditions. 82% of the cases have only mild symptoms. You have to wonder about people who post alarmist videos like this one.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on March 01, 2020, 08:45:06 AM
I don't know if COVID-19 will be as bad as many of the alarmist videos project.

What we should be worried about is the "next" pandemic, one that kills 10 or 20% of the population.

Could that happen?  Maybe; maybe not. 

If that happens, our social agencies are unprepared to adequately address it.

And people don't understand their personal liberties may be constrained in the public's interest.

Well-rounded piece in The Guardian, if you don't hit the paywall. 
Yes, it is worse than the flu: busting the coronavirus myths (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/01/yes-it-is-worse-than-the-flu-busting-the-coronavirus-myths)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: thatguy on March 01, 2020, 10:52:34 AM
SARS is a Carona Virus too. take care of yourself and take precautions and you'll likely be fine.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: nickybcareful on March 01, 2020, 11:17:48 AM
Ug.  My wife and I have planned a 2-week vacation to Italy at the beginning of May.  We have reservations from Sorrento to Siena.  We were planning to fly back from Florence, but could probably change that to Rome or Naples.  Not sure if we should go or cancel.  It would be a bummer to worry about it all the time we are there... My deepest sympathy for those affected.
.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: thatguy on March 01, 2020, 11:29:48 AM
I'd wait and see. The Italian authorities seem to be on top of it as they can be.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on March 01, 2020, 11:37:31 AM
SARS is a Carona Virus too. take care of yourself and take precautions and you'll likely be fine.

As Dan (the Scientist) explained it to me, is that the name "Corona" means "crown" and is the umbrella name for the virus. Then you have the "sub-viruses" (my name for it), like SARS, MERS, Covid 19 that all are grouped underneath "Corona".

Wiki has some good explanations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe_acute_respiratory_syndrome_coronavirus_2 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe_acute_respiratory_syndrome_coronavirus_2)

HTH  :bigok:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on March 01, 2020, 11:42:55 AM
SARS is a Carona Virus too. take care of yourself and take precautions and you'll likely be fine.

The second part is pretty much true. The first part is a little misleading. SARS had about a 9.6% fatality rate and MERS was over 34%. People who caught those were sick immediately and easily identified. Most cases of secondary transmission for both occurred in hospital settings. This is different.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on March 01, 2020, 11:58:29 AM
Here is a 3rd party video that does a good job of illustrating the various viruses, the rate of contagion and the rate of death.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PYKYjkqnGU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PYKYjkqnGU)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on March 01, 2020, 12:28:20 PM
Ug.  My wife and I have planned a 2-week vacation to Italy at the beginning of May.  We have reservations from Sorrento to Siena.  We were planning to fly back from Florence, but could probably change that to Rome or Naples.  Not sure if we should go or cancel.  It would be a bummer to worry about it all the time we are there... My deepest sympathy for those affected.
.

I'm with you there; this sounds like the trip you were talking about in Ohio.  We have reservations for travel over the next 9 months, and not sure if we will (or should) cancel or whether that decision will be made for us.  On the bright side, I believe our current exposure is about $500.

I left room in my plans for an early May ride to WV that may not happen either.   Wait & see at this point.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on March 01, 2020, 12:32:08 PM
Here is a 3rd party video that does a good job of illustrating the various viruses, the rate of contagion and the rate of death.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PYKYjkqnGU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PYKYjkqnGU)

I saw his first one; thanks for posting the updated one.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: maddjack on March 01, 2020, 12:40:34 PM
Ug.  My wife and I have planned a 2-week vacation to Italy at the beginning of May.  We have reservations from Sorrento to Siena.  We were planning to fly back from Florence, but could probably change that to Rome or Naples.  Not sure if we should go or cancel.  It would be a bummer to worry about it all the time we are there... My deepest sympathy for those affected.
.

I'm with you there; this sounds like the trip you were talking about in Ohio.  We have reservations for travel over the next 9 months, and not sure if we will (or should) cancel or whether that decision will be made for us.  On the bright side, I believe our current exposure is about $500.

I left room in my plans for an early May ride to WV that may not happen either.   Wait & see at this point.
I am in wait and see mode for any travel, I was going to visit Vietnam this year, that's a dead horse now, and I will see how thing play out even for US travel.I am not afraid but if it gets to where travel or other things are curtailed ( personal freedoms) I don't want to be stuck with reservations I cannot do anything with.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on March 01, 2020, 04:29:27 PM
Here is a 3rd party video that does a good job of illustrating the various viruses, the rate of contagion and the rate of death.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PYKYjkqnGU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PYKYjkqnGU)

That's a good one. I really the maps starting around 3:00.

There's a typo on his Takeaway #4. It says Australia is the only unaffected continent. Actually, it's Antarctica. His map shows the Australian cases.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on March 01, 2020, 08:10:08 PM
Ug.  My wife and I have planned a 2-week vacation to Italy at the beginning of May.  We have reservations from Sorrento to Siena.  We were planning to fly back from Florence, but could probably change that to Rome or Naples.  Not sure if we should go or cancel.  It would be a bummer to worry about it all the time we are there... My deepest sympathy for those affected.
.


My expectation is that covid-19 will have run its course by April in most of Europe.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on March 02, 2020, 03:54:54 AM
I don't know if COVID-19 will be as bad as many of the alarmist videos project.

What we should be worried about is the "next" pandemic, one that kills 10 or 20% of the population.

Could that happen?  Maybe; maybe not. 

If that happens, our social agencies are unprepared to adequately address it.

And people don't understand their personal liberties may be constrained in the public's interest.

Well-rounded piece in The Guardian, if you don't hit the paywall. 
Yes, it is worse than the flu: busting the coronavirus myths (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/01/yes-it-is-worse-than-the-flu-busting-the-coronavirus-myths)

The bit that gets me is that naturally occurring diseases with that level of mortality have largely depended on outside factors like poor nutrition, lack of medical care, poor sanitation, etc. to spread and kill.  I don’t think there is a natural occurring virus that does that on its own.

Every modern nation with a Level 4 biohazard facility has the capacity to research and weaponize diseases.  Forget treaties...they aren’t being followed.

Avian Flu...Bayer Pharmaceuticals shipped a batch of vaccine that contained live virus...they claimed it was a labeling error, but (1) why would you make a whole batch of live virus, and (2) how did that cock-up get past multiple layers of quality control without discovery?  Had it not been caught by a random check at its destination, thousands would have been deliberately infected.

Taint aspirin and there’s a nationwide recall and federal investigation, but shipping pandemic-triggering virus gets not scrutiny?

Swine Flu...once it was discovered there was a research facility at the epicenter of the outbreak researching swine flu, the hysteria and new cases died off overnight.

Now we have COVID-19.  Outbreak centers around a Level 4 biohazard facility in China...a nation renowned for not adhering to treaty law with aspirations of global dominance.  China knew of the outbreak for about a month before the world heard of it and they tried to cover it up for several weeks.  We may never get to the truth of how this outbreak started, but I’m confident it wasn’t naturally occurring.  Bioweapons are usually existing diseases enhanced to a level that will do the desired job as compared to crafting a disease from scratch.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on March 02, 2020, 08:16:45 AM
Curious question meant to inspirer thought, not challenge: Millions upon millions of people living in tight proximity with weird climate conditions and purely numbers based weaknesses in quality food and sanitation aren’t enough to explain why all the wacky shit you read about happens n China and India? We dropped two nukes in Japan and they had a reactor blow up and still the level of freaky shit isn’t a blip on the radar compared to the two most overpopulated countries in the globe. Two headed babies. China and India. Weird super rare diseases. China and India. Recessive genes causing mutations. China and India. Wild life mutating at crazy rates. China and India.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Vulcanbill on March 02, 2020, 08:20:23 AM
Quote
Wild life mutating and but so rates.


I think you're drunk.

Or you need to write some code for a better speech to text program.   ;D

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on March 02, 2020, 08:45:43 AM
Quote
Wild life mutating and but so rates.


I think you're drunk.

Or you need to write some code for a better speech to text program.   ;D

I can't type on my phone given the combination of my sausage fingers and lack of reading glasses, while standing in kitchen waiting for my first cup of caffeine to steep. ;)

I am at my desk with a proper keyboard, and properly bespectacled now.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on March 02, 2020, 10:34:32 AM
Well. There was a simian hemorrhagic fever (Ebola virus) outbreak at a primate center in Virginia in 1989 because of imported cynomolgus monkeys (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00001512.htm (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00001512.htm)). This became the genesis of a book called 'The Hot Zone' by Richard Preston (and eventually became a movie). There was also a similar outbreak in Europe with Marburg virus - the CDC link explains those as well. So my point is... stupid stuff happens.

There is no reason to trust the Chinese and US companies have sold them DNA sequencing machines. I used to work for two of them (Life Technologies and Thermo Fisher Scientific). Research purposes only, my butt. 'What did you think was going to happen?'  :rolleyes: But you know... greed.

In any case, a few other points to consider: The Asians have never learned to keep different species of animals separated. Europeans learned this a long time ago - e.g. keep poultry and pigs separated. This is why you get viruses jumping from one species to another. Viruses cannot replicate on their own; they absolutely require a host and as such are very good at finding hosts and infecting them. However, it is not in a viruses' best interest to kill their host, yes? Hyper-virulence means that the virus burns out eventually because the replicating mechanism introduces mutations that are not repaired in a timely fashion. These viruses eventually commit suicide so to speak. This is what happens to Ebola. Except it's getting better at proliferating these days. Not sure if there are Chinese biological research centers in Africa. Probably not, but soon, given the Chinese investment in infrastructure in Africa. So far though, they've not been very good at that either. So far.

So it is plausible that the virus did start in bats (or whatever) and jumped species in a market.... and it is also plausible that the Chinese effed up big time (assuming the research center in Wuhan was producing biologicals). Unless we can sequence viruses in that lab (or from animals in the market) and compare to DNA isolated from people infected early on, we can't prove either hypothesis.

So speculate away. Just keep washing your hands and staying away from sick people.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on March 02, 2020, 10:52:39 AM
https://youtu.be/BtulL3oArQw
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: 1KPerDay on March 02, 2020, 12:00:40 PM
Info from my brother who is usually pretty smart and an ER doc:

SARS-COVID-19 Update

As the Covid-19 outbreak increases, we're seeing more countries drop on the travel advisory list. An outbreak ocurred in Washington state this weekend and the first novel virus-associated death in the US was recorded.

The CDC reports 87,000 cases worldwide, 80,000 of which are in China. Briefly, this virus shares similarities to the SARS-COV and MERS-COV viruses, All of which are coronaviruses. This is a very large and common virus family, species are seeing both humans and other animals. Rarely is there a spread from an animal to humans but this has occurred in the previous two coronavirus infections above. Interestingly, all three viruses have origins in bats.

This new virus was initially identified in the Hubei province of China in WuHan city. Originally connected to a seafood and live animal market in the city of WuHan, the virus is thought to have changed from animal to human transmission to person to person transmission.
On January 30 of 2020 the WHO declared a “public health emergency of international concern.” And on January 31 the US health and human services declared a public health emergency.

The complete clinical picture of covert 19, it’s timeline and severely are not fully known, however reported cases have been from mild to severe, with most deaths occurring in those individuals with extremes of age, extremely young or elderly, or those individuals with multiple comorbidities, chronic illnesses or decreased immune function. In the United States, the current risk of exposure to US citizens is still considered low.

Symptoms usually occur 2 to 14 days after exposure, and major symptoms include fever, cough, shortness of breath. in other words, like almost every other viral infection.
To put things into perspective, there were 8098 cases of SARS and 774 deaths. That was a 9.6% chance of death. Influenza occurs throughout the world in yearly outbreaks and affects between three and 5 million individuals with a severe illness each year, resulting in about 300,000 to 650,000 deaths per year.

Although this new virus is considered more contagious and more deadly than the influenza virus, I want to emphasize that that does appear to be only in patients who are severely ill, With underlying comorbidities, chronic illnesses, and extremes of age.

The virus is thought to spread in similar patterns to other coronaviruses and the recommended method for decreasing risk of transmission is frequent handwashing, wearing a surgical mask is also useful. Staying approximately 6 feet away from infected individuals, covering your mouth and nose from nasal and respiratory secretions, and washing surfaces will also decrease risk of spread.

At this time there’s no vaccine or cure. However staying in good health, sleeping appropriately, exercising well, staying hydrated will help not only with this particular coronavirus but any viral infection. At this point we still don’t know everything about the disease, but I would go about my daily life and not be deeply concerned. Treat this like any other virus or viral infection. This is just the media’s new zombie apocalypse story which causes a frenzy across all walks of life.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: OHScot on March 02, 2020, 12:01:22 PM
The book The Hot Zone was an eye opener.  Wonder if we are any more prepared now?


Best place to shop for a flamethrower is?




Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: bedlamite on March 02, 2020, 12:26:16 PM
The book The Hot Zone was an eye opener.  Wonder if we are any more prepared now?


Best place to shop for a flamethrower is?

Nope.

https://www.boringcompany.com/not-a-flamethrower (https://www.boringcompany.com/not-a-flamethrower)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: bedlamite on March 02, 2020, 01:03:26 PM
Daily updates and real info rather than just parroting what the WHO has said:

https://www.youtube.com/user/Campbellteaching (https://www.youtube.com/user/Campbellteaching)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on March 02, 2020, 01:13:36 PM
Just for giggles, read Scott Sigler's novel Ancestor. While the meat of the novel isn't virus based per se, the opening salvo is spent dealing with a research facility where a deadly virus jumps species. The non-fiction parts of his stories are well fleshed out and include contributory editing by people in the fields of question. The rest of the novel is a hell of a ride in other ways; I love it and hope it makes its movie debut some time soon.

Also consider reading Infected and Contagious; while not earthbound virus centered, it does deal a lot with the CDC and broad coverage of pendemic-level infection events. It's also a damned fine sci-fi series. The third book is great reading, too, but not necessary to get the impact, and is fairly typical of follow-up story in established-events timelines.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Baxter on March 02, 2020, 03:41:11 PM
I'm not in a position to make predictions. But I suspect that this will go beyond a non-event yet will not be a historic catastrophe (save for those who actually suffer or die).  Neither Pollyanna nor Chicken Little are appropriate.  But anyone who knowingly breaks quarantine should be shunned by all.

We're planning to put off some contemplated purchases so that funds are available for co-pays in the event we catch this and we require hospitalization.  Just a precaution.  If this should pass, we'll then proceed as normal.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on March 02, 2020, 03:43:03 PM
I'm not in a position to make predictions. But I suspect that this will go beyond a non-event yet will not be a historic catastrophe (save for those who actually suffer or die).  Neither Pollyanna nor Chicken Little are appropriate.  But anyone who knowingly breaks quarantine should be shunned by all.

We're planning to put off some contemplated purchases so that funds are available for co-pays in the event we catch this and we require hospitalization.  Just a precaution.  If this should pass, we'll then proceed as normal.

This guy gets it.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on March 02, 2020, 08:52:09 PM
My prediction:  COVID-19 won't be a big deal.

But if the US got hit by a big, bad one (like the Spanish Flu) the government isn't even close to ready.  The US government has a long history of preparing for the *last* thing, and not listening or spending on what gthe *next* thing could be.  It's how we operate.

There's historical story after story to support this fact.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: PatM on March 02, 2020, 08:53:44 PM
Fear of the virus is worse than the virus itself.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on March 02, 2020, 09:31:56 PM
Fear of the virus is worse than the virus itself.

For most of us.  We all hope we are in the group of most people, and fear we are in the other.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on March 03, 2020, 05:33:59 AM
My prediction:  COVID-19 won't be a big deal.

But if the US got hit by a big, bad one (like the Spanish Flu) the government isn't even close to ready.

Question...was Spanish Flu really that bad (disease wise) or was it it more about the age and circumstances surrounding it (quality of medical care, sanitation, vaccinations [if any], nutrition in common man’s diet, etc.)?  I think all prior pandemics of notoriety for high body counts could be equally (or more so) attributed to sociological and technological factors as the disease itself.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on March 03, 2020, 07:46:34 AM
My prediction:  COVID-19 won't be a big deal.

But if the US got hit by a big, bad one (like the Spanish Flu) the government isn't even close to ready.

Question...was Spanish Flu really that bad (disease wise) or was it it more about the age and circumstances surrounding it (quality of medical care, sanitation, vaccinations [if any], nutrition in common man’s diet, etc.)?  I think all prior pandemics of notoriety for high body counts could be equally (or more so) attributed to sociological and technological factors as the disease itself.


I'm willing to bet that Italy's aging population is a factor in how hard it is hitting there.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on March 03, 2020, 07:49:42 AM
My prediction:  COVID-19 won't be a big deal.

But if the US got hit by a big, bad one (like the Spanish Flu) the government isn't even close to ready.

Question...was Spanish Flu really that bad (disease wise) or was it it more about the age and circumstances surrounding it (quality of medical care, sanitation, vaccinations [if any], nutrition in common man’s diet, etc.)?  I think all prior pandemics of notoriety for high body counts could be equally (or more so) attributed to sociological and technological factors as the disease itself.

Well first... it took down the healthy in the prime of life in addition to the weak, young, and elderly. You would think those healthy people would have seen the flu before and would have some immunity. Secondly, this flu led to hemolytic activity in the lungs. Most people.... drowned in their own fluids.

I believe there has been research on this virus; let me poke around. BRB.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on March 03, 2020, 08:09:27 AM
My prediction:  COVID-19 won't be a big deal.

But if the US got hit by a big, bad one (like the Spanish Flu) the government isn't even close to ready.

Question...was Spanish Flu really that bad (disease wise) or was it it more about the age and circumstances surrounding it (quality of medical care, sanitation, vaccinations [if any], nutrition in common man’s diet, etc.)?  I think all prior pandemics of notoriety for high body counts could be equally (or more so) attributed to sociological and technological factors as the disease itself.

Well first... it took down the healthy in the prime of life in addition to the weak, young, and elderly. You would think those healthy people would have seen the flu before and would have some immunity. Secondly, this flu led to hemolytic activity in the lungs. Most people.... drowned in their own fluids.

I believe there has been research on this virus; let me poke around. BRB.


I just read something from an epidemiologist who has been working with the Chinese, and he speculated that China's extremely high rate of smoking may have a lot to do with why it has hit males harder than females, and almost completely spared kids.  He was lamenting that  whether the patients smoked or not wasn't one of the questions the authorities are asking incoming patients.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Black Hills on March 03, 2020, 08:34:31 AM
Curious question meant to inspirer thought, not challenge: Millions upon millions of people living in tight proximity with weird climate conditions and purely numbers based weaknesses in quality food and sanitation aren’t enough to explain why all the wacky shit you read about happens n China and India? We dropped two nukes in Japan and they had a reactor blow up and still the level of freaky shit isn’t a blip on the radar compared to the two most overpopulated countries in the globe. Two headed babies. China and India. Weird super rare diseases. China and India. Recessive genes causing mutations. China and India. Wild life mutating at crazy rates. China and India.

Thoughts?

maybe it's just odds? the more people the more likely for something weird to happen?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on March 03, 2020, 08:47:01 AM
My prediction:  COVID-19 won't be a big deal.

But if the US got hit by a big, bad one (like the Spanish Flu) the government isn't even close to ready.

Question...was Spanish Flu really that bad (disease wise) or was it it more about the age and circumstances surrounding it (quality of medical care, sanitation, vaccinations [if any], nutrition in common man’s diet, etc.)?  I think all prior pandemics of notoriety for high body counts could be equally (or more so) attributed to sociological and technological factors as the disease itself.

Well first... it took down the healthy in the prime of life in addition to the weak, young, and elderly. You would think those healthy people would have seen the flu before and would have some immunity. Secondly, this flu led to hemolytic activity in the lungs. Most people.... drowned in their own fluids.

I believe there has been research on this virus; let me poke around. BRB.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/reconstruction-1918-virus.html (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/reconstruction-1918-virus.html)

So the 1918 virus has actually been reconstructed and tested in mice. The virus RNA was isolated from Inuits, buried in permafrost. The cause of its virulence was the ability to replicate rapidly in lung tissue. The researchers did a variety of recombinant swaps with other strains of influenza to see what parts cause this ability to replicate so fast. Basically the virus replicates so fast as to burst the lung cells. Four days was about the average until death.

Yes... modern antivirals are useful against this virus.... but I wouldn't want to have to depend on them.

There is a ton more detail on the CDC site for your edumacation; I myself am going back to see if it's understood how the virus replicates so fast.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on March 03, 2020, 08:53:47 AM
In summary,  the 1918 influenza was particularly virulent and that coupled with the lack of antibiotics (for secondary bacterial infections) and anti-virals, plus the uneven application of quarantine and isolation, made it incredibly lethal.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: jadziadax8 on March 03, 2020, 09:45:22 AM
In summary,  the 1918 influenza was particularly virulent and that coupled with the lack of antibiotics (for secondary bacterial infections) and anti-virals, plus the uneven application of quarantine and isolation, made it incredibly lethal.

It's also hypothesized that the reason it killed healthy people in the prime of life is that their immune systems overreacted to the virus, causing the problems with fluid in the lungs.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on March 03, 2020, 05:30:01 PM
In summary,  the 1918 influenza was particularly virulent and that coupled with the lack of antibiotics (for secondary bacterial infections) and anti-virals, plus the uneven application of quarantine and isolation, made it incredibly lethal.

It's also hypothesized that the reason it killed healthy people in the prime of life is that their immune systems overreacted to the virus, causing the problems with fluid in the lungs.

I read that too in a case study buried in the magazine rack.  It’ prolly on line somewhere 
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: leeo45 on March 03, 2020, 05:54:47 PM
In summary,  the 1918 influenza was particularly virulent and that coupled with the lack of antibiotics (for secondary bacterial infections) and anti-virals, plus the uneven application of quarantine and isolation, made it incredibly lethal.

It's also hypothesized that the reason it killed healthy people in the prime of life is that their immune systems overreacted to the virus, causing the problems with fluid in the lungs.

ARDS (Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome) is how COVID19 is killing people as well.   

Related to the H1N1 pandemic in 1918, there was very little understanding of viruses in general at that time.   Many of the "precautions" that were taken and advised by even the more advanced medical communities were based on knowledge about bacterial infections and these were mostly ineffective in slowing the spread of a virus.   

Plus, there was a sizable war going on at that time that created some difficult social and logistical priorities for a lot of countries.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: bedlamite on March 05, 2020, 10:49:09 AM
https://twitter.com/alyankovic/status/1234923352810119168
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on March 05, 2020, 05:36:54 PM
Quote from: Patrick Barry
Ooh, my little sickly one
Sickly one
Looks like you’ve contracted some of
MY CORONA
Ooh, your life will soon be done
Soon be done
When you kick the bucket from
MY CORONA

Quote from: Weird Al Yankovic
Yeah, no, sorry. Not gonna do "My Corona."

 :hurl:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: jadziadax8 on March 06, 2020, 02:16:00 PM
Brilliant!
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Vulcanbill on March 06, 2020, 02:41:28 PM
He doesn't have to do it cuz every one of us heard him do it in our heads.  Close enough. 
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Doug Just Doug on March 06, 2020, 02:50:17 PM
Something to keep in mind when thinking about such things: mortality rate isn't the same as survival rate.  A disease with a predicted mortality rate of 2% does NOT mean that an infected person is expected to survive 98% of the time.  Rather, it means that for a given population, over a given period of time, 2% are expected to die from the disease (note that the population and time values are seldom included in media reporting, which contributes to the confusion.)  I know some folks here know that, but it seems the vast majority of people out there don't.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on March 06, 2020, 03:02:02 PM
also, the maximum infection rate is unlikely to go past 20% of the population.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: mr.awesome on March 06, 2020, 03:29:10 PM
SARS is a Carona Virus too. take care of yourself and take precautions and you'll likely be fine.

As Dan (the Scientist) explained it to me, is that the name "Corona" means "crown" and is the umbrella name for the virus. Then you have the "sub-viruses" (my name for it), like SARS, MERS, Covid 19 that all are grouped underneath "Corona".

Wiki has some good explanations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe_acute_respiratory_syndrome_coronavirus_2 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severe_acute_respiratory_syndrome_coronavirus_2)

HTH  :bigok:


I knew it was all related to the Umbrella Corporation!!   :bigsmile:
https://youtu.be/VKAvIv5-cxw

Today i had to quote a job at a GM plant. I had to sign a form stating i had not been to any of the highly infected areas or have been in contact with anyone who has.  :crazy:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Black Hills on March 06, 2020, 04:21:42 PM
Something to keep in mind when thinking about such things: mortality rate isn't the same as survival rate.  A disease with a predicted mortality rate of 2% does NOT mean that an infected person is expected to survive 98% of the time.  Rather, it means that for a given population, over a given period of time, 2% are expected to die from the disease (note that the population and time values are seldom included in media reporting, which contributes to the confusion.)  I know some folks here know that, but it seems the vast majority of people out there don't.

they are claiming a CFR(case fatality rate) of 2.3% is that not 2.3% of those with the disease?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on March 06, 2020, 04:53:04 PM
Something to keep in mind when thinking about such things: mortality rate isn't the same as survival rate.  A disease with a predicted mortality rate of 2% does NOT mean that an infected person is expected to survive 98% of the time.  Rather, it means that for a given population, over a given period of time, 2% are expected to die from the disease (note that the population and time values are seldom included in media reporting, which contributes to the confusion.)  I know some folks here know that, but it seems the vast majority of people out there don't.

they are claiming a CFR(case fatality rate) of 2.3% is that not 2.3% of those with the disease?

Also, doesn't that 2.3% include China and other third world countries?  That won't be the rate in more modern countries.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on March 06, 2020, 09:37:25 PM
Something to keep in mind when thinking about such things: mortality rate isn't the same as survival rate.  A disease with a predicted mortality rate of 2% does NOT mean that an infected person is expected to survive 98% of the time.  Rather, it means that for a given population, over a given period of time, 2% are expected to die from the disease (note that the population and time values are seldom included in media reporting, which contributes to the confusion.)  I know some folks here know that, but it seems the vast majority of people out there don't.

they are claiming a CFR(case fatality rate) of 2.3% is that not 2.3% of those with the disease?

Also, doesn't that 2.3% include China and other third world countries?  That won't be the rate in more modern countries.

Last time I looked at the numbers, due to population density and rate of infection/spreading, mainland china's mortality rate was something like 18%. ~2.3% is a world-wide average, which is encouraging *compared* to some of the concentration-center numbers, but is painfully more "dangerous" compared to the general flu with a mortality rate somewhere around .1% world wide. But then again, millions upon millions get the flu every year, and we're still talking a tiny fraction of that getting covid, in terms of absolute numbers.

In summary, while "only" a relatively small number of deaths have occurred so far (absolute numbers), the death rate is very, very high (percentages), all compared to flu.

I suspect that while the absolute numbers continue to rise, at a slowing rate, the death rate will decrease over time as we get better at treatment and prevention.

More than a few "experts" in the field (I use quotes because I'm referencing people whose credentials I haven't tracked down myself) have suggested that when this is all over, something like 90% of all humanity will have been exposed to the virus. :shrug:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: mr.awesome on March 06, 2020, 10:09:43 PM
It is just the dog shaking off the fleas. We are but a parasite on this beautiful planet that we are fucking up.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on March 06, 2020, 10:39:23 PM
Brilliant!

Check out Stephen Colbert’s Friday night clip “The Bug Boat” done to the tune of The Love Boat.

I’m sure it’s on utube somewhere by now. 
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on March 06, 2020, 11:11:58 PM
I've read the covid-19 outbreak as "the revenge of the pangolins".
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: st2sam on March 07, 2020, 01:36:09 AM
Geeze, how quickly we forget.

Remember the swine flu?  :confused:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on March 07, 2020, 01:47:22 AM
Geeze, how quickly we forget.

Remember the swine flu?  :confused:

I caught that. It was like a cheapo version of real flu.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on March 07, 2020, 02:32:02 AM
It is just the dog shaking off the fleas. We are but a parasite on this beautiful planet that we are fucking up.

Whenever someone tells me "WE MUST SAVE THE PLANET!!!"
I simply say that the planet will be just fine once it gets rid of us.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on March 07, 2020, 04:16:21 AM
Geeze, how quickly we forget.

Remember the swine flu?  :confused:

I caught that. It was like a cheapo version of real flu.

0.5% death rate (5 times higher than regular flu). 22 million infected and 108,000 dead in first 8 months or so. It kinda sorta gives you a sense of where we might be headed. Sort of.

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: maddjack on March 07, 2020, 09:59:40 AM
One thing not being talked about much,is the amount of damage it does to the lungs of those who survived. From what I am reading,it is in quite a few cases,pretty bad.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on March 07, 2020, 10:41:35 AM
One thing not being talked about much,is the amount of damage it does to the lungs of those who survived. From what I am reading,it is in quite a few cases,pretty bad.

The other thing not talked about much are the people who are asymptomatic, yet test positive for COVID19. The NYT interviewed several people from the Diamond Princess, one of whom has had no symptoms, but tested positive. He's in isolation until he has two negative tests in a row.

Bear in mind that the only reason he got tested was that he was on the DP. So this brings up some interesting questions:

1. Are there false positives with the test and why?
2. Are there people naturally resistant?
3. What is the percentage of asymptomatic people (carriers) in the wild?

We have our first presumptive case here in Ventura county. Waiting to be confirmed by the CDC. Only one out of 22 tested by county health.

Went to Target the other day, looking for hand sanitizer. They were out. Fortunately I have the stuff to make my own. Plenty of other stuff to cover any self-imposed isolation. But just watching things closely.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on March 07, 2020, 10:45:23 AM
I am waiting for the US to finally realize just what kind of shitstorm is headed their way... and if they can act fast enough, despite having the advantage of watching "the rest of the world" already trying to deal with it.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: bedlamite on March 07, 2020, 10:58:26 AM
I am waiting for the US to finally realize just what kind of shitstorm is headed their way... and if they can act fast enough, despite having the advantage of watching "the rest of the world" already trying to deal with it.

Yep. Also, false and conflicting info from official sources in the US is just going to make things worse.

Quote from: K
A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals, and you know it.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on March 07, 2020, 11:26:36 AM
Am I going to die from this any time soon?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: bedlamite on March 07, 2020, 11:50:51 AM
:facepalm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBiz7sQvzWI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBiz7sQvzWI)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on March 07, 2020, 12:47:29 PM
I am waiting for the US to finally realize just what kind of shitstorm is headed their way... and if they can act fast enough, despite having the advantage of watching "the rest of the world" already trying to deal with it.

Not likely. We're still lagging the rest of the world in testing with our unexplained decision to be the only country in the world to not use the testing kits produced by WHO, instead dumping it on a depleted CDC, delaying deployment (hey, that was a nice bit of alliteration) and still leaving us with a critical shortage. That kind of inept management hasn't really even been much of a topic of conversation.

It sure would be nice to have an actual public health expert in charge of HHS right now instead of a drug company lobbyist.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: bedlamite on March 07, 2020, 01:08:25 PM
It sure would be nice to have an actual public health expert in charge of HHS right now instead of a drug company lobbyist.

While I agree, I also don't think it would matter. The bureaucracy will never allow things to happen quickly, which is what we need.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on March 07, 2020, 01:30:06 PM
It sure would be nice to have an actual public health expert in charge of HHS right now instead of a drug company lobbyist.

While I agree, I also don't think it would matter. The bureaucracy will never allow things to happen quickly, which is what we need.

As a rule, our government is reactive, not proactive.  We don't spend money on anything until it's too late, then we spend it on getting ready for the *last* thing, not the next thing.

I still predict it will not be a big deal over here.  Much lower numbers than the standard flu- and with warmer temps on the way too that will also make it harder to spread.

As for the H1N1- the "swine" flu of 2009, that was a big one.  One of the problems was that once again we weren't on front of alerting the people.  With this one we seem to be moreso.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: bedlamite on March 07, 2020, 02:37:51 PM
I still predict it will not be a big deal over here.  Much lower numbers than the standard flu- and with warmer temps on the way too that will also make it harder to spread.

I hope you're right, but I don't think so.  If this wasn't as bad as the flu, do you really think China would have shut down?
The lower total numbers so far is because this is just getting started. The hospitalization rates and CFR is insanely higher than influenza.
The idea that warmer weather is going to curb this is bunk.  Vietnam has two seasons: HOT, and hot and rainy, and they are dealing with a serious outbreak: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/covid-19-vietnam-quarantines-commune-of-10-000-people-to-curb-12431290 (https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/covid-19-vietnam-quarantines-commune-of-10-000-people-to-curb-12431290)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on March 07, 2020, 03:25:26 PM
If you want to see an interesting animation of the spread of Covid 19, check out this link: https://www.healthmap.org/covid-19/ (https://www.healthmap.org/covid-19/)

The recent surge of cases is interesting, if not a little concerning. But then again, there seems to be a disconnect in how many people are tested, and how those tests are done.


Still in just over two months, with all of the advanced warning that governments have had, to see the sudden burst of cases is surprising.

And in Europe, there were a lot of school holidays that are just ending, meaning that families will be coming home and moving the virus around even more. I suspect that the schools in France and Switzerland will be closed in the coming week(s).
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on March 07, 2020, 04:30:44 PM
https://www.healthmap.org/covid-19/ (https://www.healthmap.org/covid-19/)



That is a tad bit freaky.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on March 07, 2020, 05:41:29 PM
I still predict it will not be a big deal over here.  Much lower numbers than the standard flu- and with warmer temps on the way too that will also make it harder to spread.

I hope you're right, but I don't think so.  If this wasn't as bad as the flu, do you really think China would have shut down?
The lower total numbers so far is because this is just getting started. The hospitalization rates and CFR is insanely higher than influenza.
The idea that warmer weather is going to curb this is bunk.  Vietnam has two seasons: HOT, and hot and rainy, and they are dealing with a serious outbreak: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/covid-19-vietnam-quarantines-commune-of-10-000-people-to-curb-12431290 (https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/covid-19-vietnam-quarantines-commune-of-10-000-people-to-curb-12431290)

Maybe the fear will keep people from being stupid.

You go through life not really thinking of the flu as a killer. Ugh, I got the flu, few days off work, feel like crap.. boooo, then life goes on. That's at a worldwide average of .1% of the people to catch it dying, most of whom you just NEVER hear anything about because it's world wide, and many of those deaths aren't here, in our faces, close to home.

At a latest stat of 3.36% death rate, this thing is far, far, FAR more deadly (by the percentages) and the incubation is so long and silent... it's scary. It's a lot scarier than the flu. Maybe... maybe we need that to stay true, so people can just knuckle down and actually take the right precautions.

Maybe it's just ok that it's so scary for now. :\
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on March 07, 2020, 09:33:13 PM
:facepalm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBiz7sQvzWI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBiz7sQvzWI)

This one's even better. Kinda demonstrates the problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mA1wqjaeKj0&t=1s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mA1wqjaeKj0&t=1s)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on March 07, 2020, 09:43:38 PM


At a latest stat of 3.36% death rate, this thing is far, far, FAR more deadly (by the percentages) and the incubation is so long and silent... it's scary. It's a lot scarier than the flu. Maybe... maybe we need that to stay true, so people can just knuckle down and actually take the right precautions.

Maybe it's just ok that it's so scary for now. :\

Again, at this point, that death rate says more about the number of undetected cases than it does about how deadly it is. Based on what we know right now, epidemiologists are looking at that as the upper bound, the worst case scenario. The lowest estimate I've seen is 0,2%, which came from the head of virology at Harvard, but he admitted he actually as clueless as everybody else.

But, yeah, a little bit of scared is going to be just fine. But -- speaking here to the Target customers I saw yesterday -- panic buying of toilet paper is probably over the top.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on March 07, 2020, 10:18:32 PM
What's freaky is wondering about whether you'll be one of the unfortunate statistics.

what's funny is I never worry about that when i climb on my bike.

Riding has a known risk component, COVID is an unknown hazard; hence the panic.

In vino veritas.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: SuperHans on March 07, 2020, 10:54:47 PM
Still in just over two months, with all of the advanced warning that governments have had, to see the sudden burst of cases is surprising.

Is it really though? I mean, what are governments supposed to do in such a short period of time? The only real solution I see is to stop international travel and basically put people on lock down, which really doesn't seem like much of a solution.



Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on March 08, 2020, 06:13:32 AM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on March 08, 2020, 06:48:41 AM
Quote
As a rule, our government is reactive, not proactive.  We don't spend money on anything until it's too late, then we spend it on getting ready for the *last* thing, not the next thing.

We have an imminent threat of sociological collapse via EMP or CME, but we still are not prepared.  At the heart of our electrical grid are massive transformers that are super expensive to build, take months to complete, and require advanced technology to fabricate.  If either of these happened (the latter being strong enough), these things would blow and the grid would remain down for months as we scramble to make replacements and get them installed.  It would be expensive, but we could make new ones and keep them stored near needed locations so we can get the grid back up in a few days, but politicians won’t approve the spending.  EMP attacks are most probable.  A CME is inevitable.  The experts agree the grid needs hardening and spares have to be ready to go on a moment’s notice, but nobody is listening.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on March 08, 2020, 08:21:44 AM


At a latest stat of 3.36% death rate, this thing is far, far, FAR more deadly (by the percentages) and the incubation is so long and silent... it's scary. It's a lot scarier than the flu. Maybe... maybe we need that to stay true, so people can just knuckle down and actually take the right precautions.

Maybe it's just ok that it's so scary for now. :\

Again, at this point, that death rate says more about the number of undetected cases than it does about how deadly it is. Based on what we know right now, epidemiologists are looking at that as the upper bound, the worst case scenario. The lowest estimate I've seen is 0,2%, which came from the head of virology at Harvard, but he admitted he actually as clueless as everybody else.

But, yeah, a little bit of scared is going to be just fine. But -- speaking here to the Target customers I saw yesterday -- panic buying of toilet paper is probably over the top.

I’ll find the site again and post it but I was looking at a site that had a pretty detailed breakdown of current active cases, cured and recovered cases, current death count, and those reported as critical or guarded condition. All the numbers began with current case count worldwide of about 103k when I was looking. It didn’t talk about “similar or related” etc. So if the numbers work out as accurate, that 3.36% is from the pool of known cases, assuming I was reading a valid site.

Side note: also spoke to my sister in law, a nurse in an old folks center, and they’re basically on ventilator and body bag holding pattern. :( Apparently the elderly death rate is pretty high :(
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Bounce on March 08, 2020, 09:49:25 AM
:facepalm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBiz7sQvzWI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBiz7sQvzWI)

Fuck them for attacking ANYONE for something like that. It often depends on where you live as to how it's pronounced. Who used to pronounce homage as anything other than "O mauj" 30 years ago? I know we did.

You go through life not really thinking of the flu as a killer. Ugh, I got the flu, few days off work, feel like crap.. boooo, then life goes on. That's at a worldwide average of .1% of the people to catch it dying, most of whom you just NEVER hear anything about because it's world wide, and many of those deaths aren't here, in our faces, close to home.

Which is what I point out to casual comments like that. Such "flu" is more of a 24-48 hour virus and not the real influenza. If you get that, you'll know the difference. The kids were in middle school and I was in my 40s. We were all sick in bed for a full 2 weeks and can see how the lack of sleep added to the illness could kill "weaker" people. With the COVID it seems to bring with it a tendency to kick over into pneumonia very quickly (Woz's wife coughing blood for example).

We have an imminent threat of sociological collapse via EMP or CME, but we still are not prepared.  At the heart of our electrical grid are massive transformers that are super expensive to build, take months to complete, and require advanced technology to fabricate.  If either of these happened (the latter being strong enough), these things would blow and the grid would remain down for months as we scramble to make replacements and get them installed.  It would be expensive, but we could make new ones and keep them stored near needed locations so we can get the grid back up in a few days, but politicians won’t approve the spending.  EMP attacks are most probable.  A CME is inevitable.  The experts agree the grid needs hardening and spares have to be ready to go on a moment’s notice, but nobody is listening.

True. My brother used to work at a co-gen in the days where state-authorized monopolies within the energy community didn't want to work with co-gens until laws were passed that forced them to buy up excess capacity when it was pushed up into the grid. When the co-gen blew one of those transformers, they ran afoul of that conflict. Typically a primary power company will reach out to others around the country, get an on-hand spare, and send their "new" on back as a replacement once it was built. When you MAKE companies do things, they are less apt to volunteer to help you when you need it most. They were faced with being down for 6 months awaiting a replacement until they finally found someone willing to work with them.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Bounce on March 08, 2020, 09:56:38 AM
dupe
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Bounce on March 08, 2020, 10:04:15 AM
...
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on March 08, 2020, 10:43:02 AM
Interesting.

Covid is a virus. I thought a virus needs a host to remain active. I wasn't aware viruses could remain active without a host and suspended on/in cardboard. I thought that was one of things that can make bacteria more lethal-over-time than viruses in some cases; they can live a very long time in a dormant stage without requiring a host. Hmm... I guess I have to brush up on my virology and biology on such things.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: maddjack on March 08, 2020, 10:43:24 AM
China shut down for a couple of weeks,big red flag, China publicly shows the emergency building of two hospitals,( rumor in certain in the know circles via the eyes in the sky more like  6 to 8 ) big red flag. I feel the possibilities of how severe it could be are being drastically downplayed by governments to prevent widespread panic. The media is purveying enough to cause a minor panic. If we use common sense we can minimise here,but there are people who don't wash their hands after they piss let alone to prevent flu. So common sense,isn't so common. Which is the root of the problem when instructing the population how to minimise risk of infection. Just wonderful for people like me,with scarred up lungs ( from sickness) and age as a risk .
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on March 08, 2020, 10:46:25 AM
China shut down for a couple of weeks,big red flag, China publicly shows the emergency building of two hospitals,( rumor in certain in the know circles via the eyes in the sky more like  8) big red flag. I feel the possibilities of how severe it could be are being drastically downplayed by governments to prevent widespread panic. The media is purveying enough to cause a minor panic. If we use common sense we can minimise here,but there are people who don't wash their hands after they piss let alone to prevent flu. So common sense,isn't so common. Which is the root of the problem when instructing the population how to minimise risk of infection. Just wonderful for people like me,with scarred up lungs ( from sickness) and age as a risk .

Eh... maybe we just all get it, kill off the weak, strengthen the herd, so next time those who lived through it will already know they're more resistant ;)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on March 08, 2020, 11:54:50 AM
Interesting.

Covid is a virus. I thought a virus needs a host to remain active. I wasn't aware viruses could remain active without a host and suspended on/in cardboard. I thought that was one of things that can make bacteria more lethal-over-time than viruses in some cases; they can live a very long time in a dormant stage without requiring a host. Hmm... I guess I have to brush up on my virology and biology on such things.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Tis a joke. but viruses can remain alive on surfaces for a while. no idea how long this one can. a day or two I would guess.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on March 08, 2020, 04:39:53 PM
China shut down for a couple of weeks,big red flag, China publicly shows the emergency building of two hospitals,( rumor in certain in the know circles via the eyes in the sky more like  8) big red flag. I feel the possibilities of how severe it could be are being drastically downplayed by governments to prevent widespread panic. The media is purveying enough to cause a minor panic. If we use common sense we can minimise here,but there are people who don't wash their hands after they piss let alone to prevent flu. So common sense,isn't so common. Which is the root of the problem when instructing the population how to minimise risk of infection. Just wonderful for people like me,with scarred up lungs ( from sickness) and age as a risk .

Eh... maybe we just all get it, kill off the weak, strengthen the herd, so next time those who lived through it will already know they're more resistant ;)

Maybe then things will go back to normal & I'll be able to take a crap without setting my arse on fire afterwards..  :facepalm:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: bedlamite on March 08, 2020, 04:43:23 PM

Tis a joke. but viruses can remain alive on surfaces for a while. no idea how long this one can. a day or two I would guess.

CDC says the range of persistence on surfaces was less than five minutes to nine days.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: bedlamite on March 08, 2020, 05:06:38 PM
:facepalm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBiz7sQvzWI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBiz7sQvzWI)

Fuck them for attacking ANYONE for something like that. It often depends on where you live as to how it's pronounced. Who used to pronounce homage as anything other than "O mauj" 30 years ago? I know we did.

I would agree with you except for one small detail, that's exactly the kind of crap AOC used to do when she was on TYT. It's a dose of her own medicine.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on March 08, 2020, 07:38:54 PM
:facepalm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBiz7sQvzWI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBiz7sQvzWI)

Fuck them for attacking ANYONE for something like that. It often depends on where you live as to how it's pronounced. Who used to pronounce homage as anything other than "O mauj" 30 years ago? I know we did.

I would agree with you except for one small detail, that's exactly the kind of crap AOC used to do when she was on TYT. It's a dose of her own medicine.


Links?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: OHScot on March 08, 2020, 07:45:11 PM
OK what the heck is the difference between a Virus and a Disease?   Why is it interchangeable on the TV?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on March 08, 2020, 08:42:14 PM
OK what the heck is the difference between a Virus and a Disease?   Why is it interchangeable on the TV?

virus ⊆ disease
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on March 08, 2020, 09:04:16 PM


You go through life not really thinking of the flu as a killer. Ugh, I got the flu, few days off work, feel like crap.. boooo, then life goes on. That's at a worldwide average of .1% of the people to catch it dying, most of whom you just NEVER hear anything about because it's world wide, and many of those deaths aren't here, in our faces, close to home.

Which is what I point out to casual comments like that. Such "flu" is more of a 24-48 hour virus and not the real influenza. If you get that, you'll know the difference. The kids were in middle school and I was in my 40s. We were all sick in bed for a full 2 weeks and can see how the lack of sleep added to the illness could kill "weaker" people. With the COVID it seems to bring with it a tendency to kick over into pneumonia very quickly (Woz's wife coughing blood for example).

We have an imminent threat of sociological collapse via EMP or CME, but we still are not prepared.  At the heart of our electrical grid are massive transformers that are super expensive to build, take months to complete, and require advanced technology to fabricate.  If either of these happened (the latter being strong enough), these things would blow and the grid would remain down for months as we scramble to make replacements and get them installed.  It would be expensive, but we could make new ones and keep them stored near needed locations so we can get the grid back up in a few days, but politicians won’t approve the spending.  EMP attacks are most probable.  A CME is inevitable.  The experts agree the grid needs hardening and spares have to be ready to go on a moment’s notice, but nobody is listening.

True. My brother used to work at a co-gen in the days where state-authorized monopolies within the energy community didn't want to work with co-gens until laws were passed that forced them to buy up excess capacity when it was pushed up into the grid. When the co-gen blew one of those transformers, they ran afoul of that conflict. Typically a primary power company will reach out to others around the country, get an on-hand spare, and send their "new" on back as a replacement once it was built. When you MAKE companies do things, they are less apt to volunteer to help you when you need it most. They were faced with being down for 6 months awaiting a replacement until they finally found someone willing to work with them.

Both of these.  I have read several times about the electrical infrastructure problem for a long time, especially in regards to a CME.  Once again, we will only respond.  Our history is full of those things- then we blame those who were in power when it went down.  So, just prepare on a personal level- and imagine what it could be like in large urban areas without power for more than a month. 

As for the REAL influenza?  About 7 years ago I missed my flu shot- kept putting it off.  I had influenza (as checked by a test at the doctor's) and missed my entire Christmas break.  It is more the 24-48 hours- at least that one was. It was brutal.  Fever, aches, chills, for more than a week.  I have one student out right now who tested positive- he's been out all last week.

I will never miss my vaccination again.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on March 08, 2020, 11:41:23 PM
By the way, as a morbid sideshow, watch the U.S. panic level crank up over the next couple of weeks. There should be a huge spike in cases as testing finally opens up.

Right now, people are aware that there are few cases by me in OC, a cluster in Seatlle, yada yada yada. What people aren't aware of is that as of early last week, 1500 people had been tested in the U.S. Not a typo. 1500. Guess why there aren't more reported cases.

South Korea has tested 140,000. The good news is that with that large sample, they've calculated a death rate of 0.6%, a tick higher than Swine flu, 6x worse than regular flu, nowhere near the worst case numbers being kicked around. It's going to suck. It won't be the end of civilization.


Great headline from The Chaser:
Quote
Laxatives sell out as hoarders try to make use of excess toilet paper
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on March 08, 2020, 11:54:35 PM
I am coming to the conclusion that the lack of cogent response outside of China (and perhaps Indonesia) means that the covid-19 virus will become endemic, much as the flu or common cold are now.

I can't see an effective vaccine any time within the next si months at best, probably more like 12-18 months from now.  By that time, it will have spread worldwide and containment will simply be a forgotten concept.

So, with this in mind, hope that when you catch it (not really if) it'll be mild and you'll develop immunity until it mutates further.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on March 09, 2020, 01:46:35 AM
OK what the heck is the difference between a Virus and a Disease?   Why is it interchangeable on the TV?

dis-ease (literally, unease) is a word for anything that makes you feel unwell. a broken leg or a cold could be included.

the word has morphed over the years to mean something that makes you feel unwell and is the result of infection-so viral, fungal and bacterial infections. Although people still refer to non-infectious illnesses, such as cancer, as a disease, going back to its old meaning.

a virus is a non-cellular thing-debatable if it's alive or not-which may cause infection, which may cause disease. common viral infections are flu and colds. bacteria are most definitely alive. some cause disease, most don't. Fungi don't cause many diseases worth worrying about as they tend to be fairly easy to kill. unless you're a frog.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on March 09, 2020, 10:16:51 AM
Quote
Fungi don't cause many diseases worth worrying about as they tend to be fairly easy to kill. unless you're a frog.

Not exactly.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2125283-deadly-drug-resistant-candida-yeast-infection-spreads-in-the-us/ (https://www.newscientist.com/article/2125283-deadly-drug-resistant-candida-yeast-infection-spreads-in-the-us/)

Viruses need a host to replicate or hide out. A virus will insert into a host DNA and become quiescent. This is one way how a host animal tolerates the virus.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on March 09, 2020, 10:39:14 AM
SouthBy was canceled, so... regardless of the EOEs here, people are taking it seriously. 2019's SouthBy added a gross $360M to Austin's economy.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on March 09, 2020, 11:21:03 AM
I'm glad that someone's taking this seriously....


ComicCon in Seattle is also postponed. About 100,000 people usually attend.

It might be overkill, sure. But I would rather err on the side of caution than have a full-blown deadly pandemic upon us.
At least here in Europe some of the governments are talking about financial assistance to businesses who can't operate due to the bans on large gatherings.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: radon222 on March 09, 2020, 12:02:27 PM
There've been a number of Marine Industry related conferences either cancelled or re-scheduled.  Including Oceanology International which is a big one in the UK.

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on March 09, 2020, 12:32:13 PM
Nobody is invited to our house.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Andrew on March 09, 2020, 12:36:55 PM
We are taking it seriously enough to decomenate/wipe down all surfaces of every bus every night. The Cleaner/fuelers told me they smell the disinfectant in their sleep. But then at inner city transit, we are on the front line. 

Side note:I am home today, with a touch of the flu  :P
Looking out the window I can see the Princess Cruise ship heading into the SF Bay right now. Not that that adds up to much.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on March 09, 2020, 01:03:06 PM
I have to be careful. My mother is 94. She's in a high risk group. All their group activities have been cancelled at her independent living facility. All visitors must wash their hands upon arrival. Also group outings are cancelled.

I applaud these efforts without government mandates. Risk assessment and reasonable actions are happening at a local level.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on March 09, 2020, 01:03:48 PM
We are taking it seriously enough to decomenate/wipe down all surfaces of every bus every night. The Cleaner/fuelers told me they smell the disinfectant in their sleep. But then at inner city transit, we are on the front line. 
:thumbsup:


Side note:I am home today, with a touch of the flu  :P
Nothing like being on the front line to get hit by shrapnel  :couch:


Looking out the window I can see the Princess Cruise ship heading into the SF Bay right now. Not that that adds up to much.
I have two friends who just boarded a cruise ship leaving from Miami. Personally, I think they are crazy.  :crazy:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: radon222 on March 09, 2020, 01:18:42 PM
I was talking to my Mom last night and she told me about one of the driver's for the Senion Center in her town.

He has Cruise scheduled for April and he's still not sure whether to cancel, or just go ahead and do it.  It's Mediterranean cruise that departs from Italy  :o.  Apparently pandemics aren't covered under Trip Insurance so if he cancels, he's completely SOL.

And keep in mind...this guy drives Senior Citizens to doctor's offices, and other appointments on a daily basis.....
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on March 09, 2020, 01:31:18 PM
UK advice is now to self isolate if you get any cold or flu symptoms.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Baxter on March 09, 2020, 01:37:16 PM
UK advice is now to self isolate if you get any cold or flu symptoms.

That's generally good advice. But since my secret superhero identity is Allergy Man, I always have mild cold or flu symptoms.   :o  It's a good thing that I'm kinda antisocial.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: jadziadax8 on March 09, 2020, 02:34:58 PM
UK advice is now to self isolate if you get any cold or flu symptoms.

That's generally good advice. But since my secret superhero identity is Allergy Man, I always have mild cold or flu symptoms.   :o  It's a good thing that I'm kinda antisocial.

:lol:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on March 09, 2020, 03:22:07 PM
UK advice is now to self isolate if you get any cold or flu symptoms.

That's generally good advice. But since my secret superhero identity is Allergy Man, I always have mild cold or flu symptoms.   :o  It's a good thing that I'm kinda antisocial.

 :snork:

If Dan or I get it, then there's not much we can do other than to share it with each other and sit at home together, eating our way through the pantry and watching Netflix.

(the Swiss government also recommends self-isolation, and only calling your doctor (not visiting in person!) if you are really, really worried)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on March 09, 2020, 03:33:46 PM
UK advice is now to self isolate if you get any cold or flu symptoms.

That's generally good advice. But since my secret superhero identity is Allergy Man, I always have mild cold or flu symptoms.   :o  It's a good thing that I'm kinda antisocial.

 :snork:

If Dan or I get it, then there's not much we can do other than to share it with each other and sit at home together, eating our way through the pantry and watching Netflix.

(the Swiss government also recommends self-isolation, and only calling your doctor (not visiting in person!) if you are really, really worried)

^This... although we have the RV which will become the quarantine/isolation ward if necessary.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on March 09, 2020, 03:37:56 PM
He has Cruise scheduled for April and he's still not sure whether to cancel, or just go ahead and do it.  It's Mediterranean cruise that departs from Italy  :o.  Apparently pandemics aren't covered under Trip Insurance so if he cancels, he's completely SOL.

Tough call.  What if he got a doctor's note saying he could not go?  Cancellation because of medical issues should qualify.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on March 09, 2020, 08:33:20 PM
We are taking an Alaskan cruise in early July.  Not worried.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on March 09, 2020, 09:28:45 PM
Read a bunch of interesting stuff today while the market tanked.

Curious question meant to inspirer thought, not challenge: Millions upon millions of people living in tight proximity with weird climate conditions and purely numbers based weaknesses in quality food and sanitation aren’t enough to explain why all the wacky shit you read about happens n China and India? We dropped two nukes in Japan and they had a reactor blow up and still the level of freaky shit isn’t a blip on the radar compared to the two most overpopulated countries in the globe. Two headed babies. China and India. Weird super rare diseases. China and India. Recessive genes causing mutations. China and India. Wild life mutating at crazy rates. China and India.

Thoughts?

Here is one Opinion: Coronavirus: 5 reasons why so many pandemics begin in Asia or Africa (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/5-reasons-why-so-many-pandemics-begin-in-asia-or-africa-2020-03-09?mod=mw_latestnews)

Here is an insightful discussion of mortality rates

Opinion: Why this epidemiologist is more worried about coronavirus than he was a month ago (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-this-epidemiologist-is-more-worried-about-coronavirus-than-he-was-a-month-ago-2020-03-09?mod=home-page)

And if all that isn't bad enough, now we have to worry about third-hand smoke.

Human transport of thirdhand tobacco smoke: A prominent source of hazardous air pollutants into indoor nonsmoking environments (https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/10/eaay4109)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on March 09, 2020, 09:52:18 PM
He has Cruise scheduled for April and he's still not sure whether to cancel, or just go ahead and do it.  It's Mediterranean cruise that departs from Italy  :o.  Apparently pandemics aren't covered under Trip Insurance so if he cancels, he's completely SOL.

Tough call.  What if he got a doctor's note saying he could not go?  Cancellation because of medical issues should qualify.

Funny you should mention that -- a friend just forwarded an email sent to her elderly mom from the doc with coronavirus advice. The doc said she'd be happy to write a medical note for anyone who wanted it but to be aware that airlines and cruise lines were ignoring them and that there was a little chance of a refund.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on March 09, 2020, 10:33:17 PM
I didn't know if this went here or You Laugh, You Lose.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on March 09, 2020, 10:49:09 PM


Here is an insightful discussion of mortality rates

Opinion: Why this epidemiologist is more worried about coronavirus than he was a month ago (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-this-epidemiologist-is-more-worried-about-coronavirus-than-he-was-a-month-ago-2020-03-09?mod=home-page)



That's a nice summary.   :bigok:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on March 10, 2020, 05:01:29 AM
Funny you should mention that -- a friend just forwarded an email sent to her elderly mom from the doc with coronavirus advice. The doc said she'd be happy to write a medical note for anyone who wanted it but to be aware that airlines and cruise lines were ignoring them and that there was a little chance of a refund.

Not surprising, but the wording of the contract controls.  If the doctor note meets the terms set in the contract, they don’t have a choice.  You may have to go to court, but if they don’t comply, have a lawyer draft a nasty-gram warning them of the risk of litigation over breach of contract, that their practice will be reported to the FTC (Federal Trade Commission) and possible class action suit by ALL the parties who they are refusing to honor their end of the contract.

Also, with a pandemic going on, entire cruises could (and probably should) be cancelled on the basis that the pandemic frustrates performance of the contract.  Understandably, they don’t want to lose the income from these trips, but if they are sued for people getting infected and dying because of conditions on the ship, even if they win in court, it will get expensive.  There’s no way to sanitize a ship in the time normally allowed for turn around in port.

While I know the useless WHO won’t call this a pandemic for market reasons, they are warning anyone particularly vulnerable to avoid crowds, planes and cruises.  It’s pretty much a given that flying and cruising is a bad idea right now in general and for some a definite NO.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on March 10, 2020, 05:01:44 AM
An interesting site from Drudge...
 
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 (https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6)
 
Mobile version...
 
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/85320e2ea5424dfaaa75ae62e5c06e61 (https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/85320e2ea5424dfaaa75ae62e5c06e61)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on March 10, 2020, 05:32:44 AM
That spells it out for those of us who are not great thinkers.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Bryan.VFR on March 10, 2020, 07:09:45 AM
After today, the university that I work at is closing for two weeks. The official word is there are no confirmed cases on campus, but they learned that some people may have been exposed to a confirmed case after attending an out of state conference. Idiot(s)! So I get to 'work from home' for two weeks. Though being in IT desktop support, I don't really have anything to do without anybody on campus.  :shrug:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Bounce on March 10, 2020, 08:26:35 AM
SouthBy was canceled

So it's not all bad news?

Quote
Nobody is invited to our house.

You seem to infer that this is a new thing. That's SOP here.

And if all that isn't bad enough, now we have to worry about third-hand smoke.

Human transport of thirdhand tobacco smoke: A prominent source of hazardous air pollutants into indoor nonsmoking environments (https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/10/eaay4109)

Creating a generation of wimps. Get out there and eat some mud pies and get strong!
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Black Hills on March 10, 2020, 08:38:07 AM
It's the end of the world as we know it, We're all gonna DIE!
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on March 10, 2020, 09:09:47 AM
It's about fucking time.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on March 10, 2020, 11:17:05 AM
It's about fucking time.

God knows I'm tired of waiting for it to come.  ;)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: PatM on March 10, 2020, 12:55:57 PM
I think this is the best comprehensive explanation of the subject. It's long and thorough. The short version is don't over react, wash your hands and avoid touching your face. If you get sick, don't go to the ER unless you're running a high fever, have difficulty keeping fluid down and are short of breath. They don't have any vaccine or treatment. Also numbers, he believes the South Koreans are closer to the "real" mortality rate at 0,7%.   
https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fdrmarkstanley%2Fposts%2F10216896547069895&width=500 (https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fdrmarkstanley%2Fposts%2F10216896547069895&width=500)"

He has Cruise scheduled for April and he's still not sure whether to cancel, or just go ahead and do it.  It's Mediterranean cruise that departs from Italy  :o.  Apparently pandemics aren't covered under Trip Insurance so if he cancels, he's completely SOL.

I'm booked for a tour in Italy - Slovenia - Austria, Germany and Switzerland this summer. The advice I got from my travel agent is to wait. If you cancel you may be SOL. If they cancel is another ball game.  Anyways Italy is quarantined as of this last Sunday until Apr 5. We will see what happens.



Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on March 10, 2020, 02:25:53 PM
I think this is the best comprehensive explanation of the subject. It's long and thorough. The short version is don't over react, wash your hands and avoid touching your face. If you get sick, don't go to the ER unless you're running a high fever, have difficulty keeping fluid down and are short of breath. They don't have any vaccine or treatment. Also numbers, he believes the South Koreans are closer to the "real" mortality rate at 0,7%.   
https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fdrmarkstanley%2Fposts%2F10216896547069895&width=500 (https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fdrmarkstanley%2Fposts%2F10216896547069895&width=500)"

He has Cruise scheduled for April and he's still not sure whether to cancel, or just go ahead and do it.  It's Mediterranean cruise that departs from Italy  :o.  Apparently pandemics aren't covered under Trip Insurance so if he cancels, he's completely SOL.

I'm booked for a tour in Italy - Slovenia - Austria, Germany and Switzerland this summer. The advice I got from my travel agent is to wait. If you cancel you may be SOL. If they cancel is another ball game.  Anyways Italy is quarantined as of this last Sunday until Apr 5. We will see what happens.

Italy should have peaked by then and the infection rate calmed right down. We're expecting April-early June to be our peak.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on March 10, 2020, 03:02:51 PM
Granted all the cases aren't done, but if you look at the current US numbers (as of 3/10 4:00pm ET) (https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 (https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6)): 

805 confirmed, 28 dead, 8 recovered, and you subtract the 23 that died IN A FREAKING NURSING HOME (the most susceptible) that brings the death rate down to 0.62%.

Obviously that's not perfect statistics, but interesting.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: PatM on March 10, 2020, 04:10:03 PM
Good news from a friend in Italy: Zero contagi a Codogno, è prima volta (https://www.huffingtonpost.it/entry/coronavirus-zero-contagi-a-codogno-e-la-prima-volta_it_5e67f511c5b60557280cf226) Codogno is thought to be ground zero in Italy. Translated it means that for the first time they have no new infection.

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on March 11, 2020, 10:55:57 AM

He has Cruise scheduled for April and he's still not sure whether to cancel, or just go ahead and do it.  It's Mediterranean cruise that departs from Italy  :o.  Apparently pandemics aren't covered under Trip Insurance so if he cancels, he's completely SOL.

I'm booked for a tour in Italy - Slovenia - Austria, Germany and Switzerland this summer. The advice I got from my travel agent is to wait. If you cancel you may be SOL. If they cancel is another ball game.  Anyways Italy is quarantined as of this last Sunday until Apr 5. We will see what happens.

Check with the cruise line directly and keep checking with the agent.  More companies are offering refunds/rebooks for those not wanting to travel, and others are offering incentives if you elect to not cancel.  As the situation develops, the policies may change.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Black Hills on March 11, 2020, 10:59:42 AM
It finally made it out here to the sticks. 5 "presumptive"  cases in the state with the first fatality in my county. we shall see..

https://www.kotatv.com/content/news/South-Dakota-reports-possible-coronavirus-cases-568676291.html (https://www.kotatv.com/content/news/South-Dakota-reports-possible-coronavirus-cases-568676291.html)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Max Wedge on March 11, 2020, 11:29:01 AM
My take on it:

I have to die. If I catch the Coronavirus now, well then I die now; if later, then now I will take my lunch, since the hour for lunch has arrived – and dying I will tend to later.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on March 11, 2020, 11:32:36 AM
It finally made it out here to the sticks. 5 "presumptive"  cases in the state with the first fatality in my county. we shall see..

https://www.kotatv.com/content/news/South-Dakota-reports-possible-coronavirus-cases-568676291.html (https://www.kotatv.com/content/news/South-Dakota-reports-possible-coronavirus-cases-568676291.html)

huh. Not bad for something that's a liberal hoax, a lie, nothing to worry about, no big deal... Huh. Whodathought...? Well, stay safe out there amongst them English.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: PatM on March 11, 2020, 11:53:33 AM
WHO just declared pandemic.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/03/11/coronavirus-live-updates-washington-ban-michigan-cases-us-death/5011587002/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/03/11/coronavirus-live-updates-washington-ban-michigan-cases-us-death/5011587002/)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on March 11, 2020, 12:18:53 PM
WHO just declared pandemic.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/03/11/coronavirus-live-updates-washington-ban-michigan-cases-us-death/5011587002/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/03/11/coronavirus-live-updates-washington-ban-michigan-cases-us-death/5011587002/)

About frickin' time.
By the way, if you're wondering what that actually means, here's a nice excerpt from WHO's guidance document:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK143061/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK143061/)

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Black Hills on March 11, 2020, 12:59:07 PM
From this WHO article:
 https://rapidcityjournal.com/news/national/covid--outbreak-now-a-pandemic-world-health-organization-declares/article_dba1d12e-2564-5d92-abc4-efd06c45d82b.html#tracking-source=home-just-in


"For most, the coronavirus causes only mild or moderate symptoms, such as fever and cough. But for a few, especially older adults and people with existing health problems, it can cause more severe illnesses, including pneumonia."


So why in the hell is every store in town out of toilet paper, cleaning supplies, hand sanitizer, and over the counter drugs??

At any rate, I'm meeting the Dakota Dual Sport guys for our weekly "discussion" at a local brewery, virus or not.....
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Virginian on March 11, 2020, 03:36:26 PM
MOAB is cancelled which I was trying to attend. 7 cases have popped up in the state of VA.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/03/11/coronavirus-fears-may/?fbclid=IwAR39b70c1t0iXzP5FiOEEyCl20J3ceVV3lGuSBnMWI3PU7kY3JgJZwD7rCY (https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/03/11/coronavirus-fears-may/?fbclid=IwAR39b70c1t0iXzP5FiOEEyCl20J3ceVV3lGuSBnMWI3PU7kY3JgJZwD7rCY)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cablebandit on March 11, 2020, 03:45:28 PM
In person classes cancelled at Penn State.  Students told not to come back from Spring Break until at least 4/6.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Black Hills on March 11, 2020, 04:06:52 PM
In person classes cancelled at Penn State.  Students told not to come back from Spring Break until at least 4/6.

University of Minnesota as well, and they extended spring break by 2 days?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on March 11, 2020, 04:47:00 PM
I will mock this sickness till I am on my deathbed coughing up blood.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on March 11, 2020, 05:41:49 PM
In person classes cancelled at Penn State.  Students told not to come back from Spring Break until at least 4/6.

I'm at a private university in SoCal. We've canceled in person classes starting tomorrow. Campus isn't closed and students aren't being sent home from the dorms, but we're moving

Other locals that I'm aware of:
Nearly all of the LA County universities (including USC and UCLA) have gone online.

Out here in Orange County:
UC Irvine is on spring break and goes online when they return
Cal State Fullerton is business as usual but faculty are supposed to experiment with online learning starting next week, so they're on the way.

Talking to my colleagues across the country, it looks like most people are making the move this week. People I talked to this morning who said they weren't making the move are telling me this afternoon that they are. My school is in that group.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: bowtie76 on March 11, 2020, 07:29:10 PM
We have moved to online classes only here at the University if Virginia.  Not sure what they are going to do about grad students and our ongoing research.

Going to be a fun ride.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on March 11, 2020, 09:15:58 PM
I will mock this sickness till I am on my deathbed coughing up blood.


https://youtu.be/345uegSj-zQ
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on March 11, 2020, 09:36:25 PM
In person classes cancelled at Penn State.  Students told not to come back from Spring Break until at least 4/6.

I'm at a private university in SoCal. We've canceled in person classes starting tomorrow. Campus isn't closed and students aren't being sent home from the dorms, but we're moving

Other locals that I'm aware of:
Nearly all of the LA County universities (including USC and UCLA) have gone online.

Out here in Orange County:
UC Irvine is on spring break and goes online when they return
Cal State Fullerton is business as usual but faculty are supposed to experiment with online learning starting next week, so they're on the way.

Talking to my colleagues across the country, it looks like most people are making the move this week. People I talked to this morning who said they weren't making the move are telling me this afternoon that they are. My school is in that group.

All of the colleges are closing in Michigan, including my wife's- till April 15.  Going to online teaching.  Yeah, that's not gonna work for nursing clinicals.  They are trying to figure out how to make them work.

Dept of Health said that if it shows up in any school district the district will close for 5 days.  That will happen.

Yes, the places are reacting- I'm sure at some point we will close for the 5 days.  It is going to spread.  I continue to stand by my claim that it will be less than the regular influenza.  The media is going crazy.  Wash your hands, take common precautions.

Or freak out.  Your choice.   :bigok:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: 1KPerDay on March 11, 2020, 10:34:00 PM
I prefer this COVID-19 video
https://youtu.be/XPpzHYKpndk
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: bedlamite on March 11, 2020, 11:55:25 PM

So why in the hell is every store in town out of toilet paper, cleaning supplies, hand sanitizer, and over the counter drugs??


visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on March 12, 2020, 01:52:12 AM
I will mock this sickness till I am on my deathbed coughing up blood.


https://youtu.be/345uegSj-zQ (https://youtu.be/345uegSj-zQ)


Lithium is no longer available on credit.

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on March 12, 2020, 04:45:47 AM
In person classes cancelled at Penn State.  Students told not to come back from Spring Break until at least 4/6.

That actually makes sense.  I’d think a bunch of students going God knows where for spring break would increase the number of students already exposed to the virus compared to classes still being in session.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on March 12, 2020, 07:52:51 AM

So why in the hell is every store in town out of toilet paper, cleaning supplies, hand sanitizer, and over the counter drugs??


visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Literally my favorite movie quote of all time. Because it's true.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on March 12, 2020, 08:18:37 AM
Practicing protective measures flattens the rate of infection so that healthcare resources are not maxxed out.

https://mobile.twitter.com/CT_Bergstrom/status/1235867362538041345?te=1&nl=morning-briefing&emc=edit_NN_p_20200312&section=backStory&campaign_id=9&instance_id=16677&segment_id=22121&user_id=ef378e0b0266220044302f452ba04908&regi_id=76290685on=backStory
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on March 12, 2020, 08:26:55 AM
I ain't trusting the general populace to do what's best for everyone.

Hell, you can't swing a cat without hearing people say "it's no big deal."

It's a big deal. It's manageable, but it's a big fucking deal. :shrug:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on March 12, 2020, 08:32:18 AM
I ain't trusting the general populace to do what's best for everyone.

Hell, you can't swing a cat without hearing people say "it's no big deal."

It's a big deal. It's manageable, but it's a big fucking deal. :shrug:

Well I'm not waiting around for someone to tell me what to do either.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Max Wedge on March 12, 2020, 11:16:10 AM
I'm thinking if I get it, to prevent spread to my family I will hotel it, put out a do not disturb notice on the door, and just Howard Hues it. Collect urine and only chocolate bars and drinking milk, and wait to see if death finds me.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Black Hills on March 12, 2020, 11:19:09 AM
maybe I'll just go hide out in the woods and find a cave to live in until this is over?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on March 12, 2020, 11:28:19 AM
We have moved to online classes only here at the University if Virginia.  Not sure what they are going to do about grad students and our ongoing research.

Going to be a fun ride.

Yeah, a lot of tricky stuff. Performing arts, labs, internships, community engagement courses, practica -- it's going to take a while to figure out that stuff.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on March 12, 2020, 11:31:00 AM
maybe I'll just go hide out in the woods and find a cave to live in until this is over?

Except it came from bats.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Black Hills on March 12, 2020, 11:36:57 AM
Hmm.. ok, maybe a shack?  kinda like ted kaczynski but without the bombs?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on March 12, 2020, 12:07:22 PM
maybe I'll just go hide out in the woods and find a cave to live in until this is over?

Sadly, it is ENDEMIC.  Meaning it will FOREVER be with us.  I suppose if you can hold out until a vaccine is created, you'll have an effective immune response without first catching the disease, but hiding out and not getting it won't protect you from getting it later if there's no vaccine.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cablebandit on March 12, 2020, 12:10:15 PM
maybe I'll just go hide out in the woods and find a cave to live in until this is over?

Except it came from bats.

All our bats are dead from white nose syndrome. 
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Baxter on March 12, 2020, 12:18:58 PM
It might be time to start looking at practical things to do as individuals.

I agree with the comments that "containment" is no longer possible in the US, now we have to go to "delay" so that our resources aren't overwhelmed.  But I'm also thinking that those most vulnerable to the worst effects will need to take extra precautions, and that those of us who aren't in the high risk groups may need to help out those who are.

There's a good number of elderly folks in my condo association.  If it looks bad here, we are thinking of letting the association members know that we can make grocery runs, etc., for people who feel that they shouldn't go out in public.  It might help.

I'm also hoping that local governments, religious and civic organizations, and the like start to think of these things and get something organized.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Flyer on March 12, 2020, 01:07:01 PM
Never mind hoarding toilet paper...
I’m buying up diaper futures for the inevitable massive baby-boom, post quarantine.
 :banana:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on March 12, 2020, 01:44:00 PM
maybe I'll just go hide out in the woods and find a cave to live in until this is over?

Sadly, it is ENDEMIC.  Meaning it will FOREVER be with us.  I suppose if you can hold out until a vaccine is created, you'll have an effective immune response without first catching the disease, but hiding out and not getting it won't protect you from getting it later if there's no vaccine.

Truth.

When viruses jump species, it's usually a pretty traumatic and deadly event until the new host species builds immunities (when possible). Fast-killing viruses are kind of self limiting (ebola, as an example). The slow ones, or the ones that don't nominally kill, are the ones we have around forever and ever and ever because we're so communal, and thanks to fast travel, are so globally communal. Hopefully we can adjust to this one easily enough, and it becomes no worse than flu or cold over time; but this initial wave, it's silly for folks to be so casual about it, IMO. This is a new pathogen to our entire species.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: PatM on March 12, 2020, 01:45:07 PM
I like this interview:

https://youtu.be/cZFhjMQrVts

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on March 12, 2020, 02:26:37 PM
Holding off the virus by infecting myself with other diseases it won’t fuck with. Currently have botulism, the King's Evil and mange, anyone suggest any others?

Edit. Now with Anthrax.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Black Hills on March 12, 2020, 02:28:18 PM
I'd throw a random STD in there just for good measure.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on March 12, 2020, 02:29:41 PM
I'd throw a random STD in there just for good measure.

excellent idea. know anyone with something interesting?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Baxter on March 12, 2020, 02:38:36 PM
The cynic in me is sadly expecting to see an article written by someone with good financial skills but terrible people skills that cheerfully explains how a large number of oldsters dying will help stabilize the social security fund.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on March 12, 2020, 02:39:21 PM
The cynic in me is sadly expecting to see an article written by someone with good financial skills but terrible people skills that cheerfully explains that a large number of oldsters dying will help stabilize the social security fund.

already happened in the UK.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: SuperHans on March 12, 2020, 02:45:12 PM
I work in a commercial power plant, so shutting down and telling people to stay home is not an option. We were just given some very restrictive instructions on how to conduct business.

All employees are to maintain a distance of 6 feet from each other.

No visitors are allowed on site unless they are critical to operations. The visitors that are allowed on site will not be permitted to enter any buildings or have any contact with employees.

All doors will be locked and all deliveries from Fed Ex, UPS, etc must left outside the door. We are not allowed to sign for anything.

If we notice any our employees appearing to be sick, we are to instruct them to leave the site immediately and see a doctor.

My only concern is we do share common work spaces from shift to shift so when once person gets sick, it tends to spread quickly through the crews. I myself try to mitigate the risk by spraying and wiping down everything at the beginning of my shift. 

I guess I'm really not too concerned about any of this. Just have to take the necessary precautions and see how things play out.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on March 12, 2020, 02:54:32 PM
It might be time to start looking at practical things to do as individuals.

I agree with the comments that "containment" is no longer possible in the US, now we have to go to "delay" so that our resources aren't overwhelmed.  But I'm also thinking that those most vulnerable to the worst effects will need to take extra precautions, and that those of us who aren't in the high risk groups may need to help out those who are.

There's a good number of elderly folks in my condo association.  If it looks bad here, we are thinking of letting the association members know that we can make grocery runs, etc., for people who feel that they shouldn't go out in public.  It might help.

I'm also hoping that local governments, religious and civic organizations, and the like start to think of these things and get something organized.

You are a good man. Keep thinking that way.

My school banned student workers working on campus effective today. At the same time, the students were told to continue submitting their normal hours and that they would be paid. Gigantic relief, because a lot of them depend on that income.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on March 12, 2020, 02:55:50 PM
pic of the day.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Black Hills on March 12, 2020, 02:56:51 PM
I'd throw a random STD in there just for good measure.

excellent idea. know anyone with something interesting?

none that are willing and/or worth the ride.... sorry.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cablebandit on March 12, 2020, 05:17:03 PM
We just got the boot from work.  Work from home if at all possible.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on March 12, 2020, 05:35:42 PM
We just got the boot from work.  Work from home if at all possible.

I thought your aviator was a celebration smiley.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on March 12, 2020, 08:09:52 PM
The state just shut down the whole county where we live. 

But I work in a different county where I'm still expected to show up 4 days a week (at least for now).

Makes a whole lot of sense, doesn't it?

Every non-essential business in our county must close for next 2 weeks.

But it's only a 10-minute drive to the shopping center in the neighboring county.

It does not make a whole lot of sense to me.

Not to worry; we had decided to do the right thing before they put the ban in place.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on March 12, 2020, 09:37:59 PM
maybe I'll just go hide out in the woods and find a cave to live in until this is over?

Sadly, it is ENDEMIC.  Meaning it will FOREVER be with us.  I suppose if you can hold out until a vaccine is created, you'll have an effective immune response without first catching the disease, but hiding out and not getting it won't protect you from getting it later if there's no vaccine.

Not true. 

If the initial wave of the virus affects a bunch of people, they develop immunity after surviving it.  If you hide long enough for that to happen, there would be no one left to give it to you.  Herd immunity.  Enough have had it that it won't pass through again.  It's why the Spanish Flu, H1N1, name-the-virus hasn't come back through.  They got enough people the first time that there aren't enough to spread it again and it goes away.

I'm curious who is going to get it here first.  Prolly me given my exposure load.  If I do, I'll keep you updated.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on March 12, 2020, 10:02:21 PM
Holy crap.  The governor just shut down every school in Michigan, K-12, till April 6- which is when our spring break starts.

I guess my chances of getting it just dropped.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on March 12, 2020, 11:00:02 PM
maybe I'll just go hide out in the woods and find a cave to live in until this is over?

Sadly, it is ENDEMIC.  Meaning it will FOREVER be with us.  I suppose if you can hold out until a vaccine is created, you'll have an effective immune response without first catching the disease, but hiding out and not getting it won't protect you from getting it later if there's no vaccine.

Not true. 

If the initial wave of the virus affects a bunch of people, they develop immunity after surviving it.  If you hide long enough for that to happen, there would be no one left to give it to you.  Herd immunity.  Enough have had it that it won't pass through again.  It's why the Spanish Flu, H1N1, name-the-virus hasn't come back through.  They got enough people the first time that there aren't enough to spread it again and it goes away.

I'm curious who is going to get it here first.  Prolly me given my exposure load.  If I do, I'll keep you updated.

We don't know yet if it's that kind of bug. There's no true immunity to the rhinovirus even though everyone gets it. All the time. Repeatedly. Every year. Sometimes several times a year. We're not really all that terribly immune to MOST viruses, certainly not naturally. A very small handful from the big pool of deadly, scary, painful, DNA-altering stuff.

The problem with covid is exactly all these unknowns; this is a new and novel species jump - and yes, that's a huge deal - and that's basically the underpinnings of a species ending event in all sorts of works of fiction; it's a scary idea for fiction exactly because it could very well end up being completely true one day.

Humanity may or may not come out of the other end of this with some level of immunity... or may not at all, ever. We don't know.

It's not about whether you get it. It's about how quickly it spreads from you to the 100, 200, 500 people you may encounter through a normal day or week, and how quickly the disease can overwhelm our medical infrastructure 'til we develop a vaccine, or determine if we can ever build natural immunity to it.

Go back and look through a history of dangerous, identified pathogens; viruses are scary, and again, MOST of them aren't something we have natural immunities to. Even now. Even after having them floating around society for centuries, and longer.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Jim on March 12, 2020, 11:08:17 PM
I like this interview:

https://youtu.be/cZFhjMQrVts (https://youtu.be/cZFhjMQrVts)

Yep - good. Where it ended I wanted more - and there is more. This looks to be the complete version (or at least much longer):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3URhJx0NSw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3URhJx0NSw)
Joe Rogan Experience #1439 - Michael Osterholm
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on March 13, 2020, 03:49:00 AM
I suppose it’s official that China engineered the virus...they’re accusing the US military of introducing it to China.  :o
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: garry on March 13, 2020, 06:26:01 AM
Quote
It's about how quickly it spreads from you to the 100, 200, 500 people you may encounter through a normal day or week

This working from home thing greatly limits my contact with the outside world. I went out for a couple hours Saturday night and haven't been away from the house since. Typical week these days. Wifey doesn't get out much either. As long as we keep our hands clean after shopping/whatever, I think our exposure is quite small.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: jadziadax8 on March 13, 2020, 07:50:24 AM
My school just went into limited shut-down mode.  During the next two weeks all faculty and staff will report to campus, but students will not.    Starting next week, faculty has been asked to teach each class online basically as independent study.  The week after that is Spring Break, so no instruction.  We have been told to use Spring Break to start prepping our classes to be taught fully online.  Campus will be completely closed for the two weeks after Spring Break, because we assume that people will still be traveling during that time.  We will re-evaluate the state of public health at the end of this time period and decide whether or not we will re-open campus on April 13th.

I really wish they could have held out another week on allowing classes to run.  I have three exams scheduled for next week!
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Black Hills on March 13, 2020, 08:06:17 AM
If you know any nurses looking for work have them contact a travel company. My wife used to be a traveler so she is still on some of their contact lists. So far the best offer she's seen is $5,150/wk. in NY many more in the $4k/wk. range.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on March 13, 2020, 09:22:53 AM
My county has now declared a local health emergency.

95 people tested
90 negative
1 positive (traveler)
2 presumptive positive (both travelers)
2 pending
25 at home on quarantine (all travelers)

No evidence yet of person to person transmission.

We have a website for the county directing people to guidance from the state. Limit gatherings, etc. All the social distancing stuff. Procedures for caring for an infected person and so on. Procedures for schools, healthcare facilities of all types, restaurants, etc.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: sleazy rider on March 13, 2020, 10:17:57 AM
The wife does internal audits for clients.  She’s in Chicago for training and is receiving a bombardment of cancellation and postponements of work.  Everyone’s locking doors to outsiders.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on March 13, 2020, 10:26:11 AM
Yep. It's happening across a ton of market segments. I have a job interview next week. It was just changed from on-site, in person to virtual over skype or something.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Virginian on March 13, 2020, 10:33:05 AM
Gov. Northam declares state of emergency as COVID-19 cases rise to 17 for Virginia.

The newest developments

As of Thursday, March 12, the Virginia Department of Health confirmed 17 cases on their website.

The total number of cases includes 10 in northern Virginia, 2 in central Virginia, 4 in eastern Virginia, and 1 in northwestern Virginia (not the Shenandoah Valley).

According to a newly available VDH breakdown, the cases include 4 in Fairfax County, 2 in Virginia Beach, 2 in Williamsburg, 2 in Loudoun County, 2 in Arlington County, 1 in Fredericksburg, 1 in Prince William County, 1 in Prince Edward County, 1 in Hanover County, and 1 in Alexandria.

At a press conference Thursday afternoon, Governor Ralph Northam declared a State of Emergency for Virginia.

The state of emergency will help provide ongoing support for vulnerable populations and multi-state coordination by freeing up funding for state support.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on March 13, 2020, 10:40:20 AM
Switzerland is one step closer to becoming an island again:

Switzerland imposes sweeping measures to contain coronavirus (https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/government-acts_switzerland-imposes-sweeping-measures-to-contain-coronavirus/45615344?fbclid=IwAR35wufNRH6qvKG5FgTIUNz-nvCf2F3ynhXmmit0yJ6zMfs-06JLsvZzTJU)

I fully support the government's decision on this. I think that they are going about this in a very serious and competent manner.

I don't know how this will link after the live discussion is over, but it is refreshing to watch civilized adults in a governmental capacity:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFI7vQU-YnY&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR12k2A40wZH4Wh6Uhl3d5twiRnKTVda7_EMSVhdJWd3DtVLwgNI26U7sjU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFI7vQU-YnY&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR12k2A40wZH4Wh6Uhl3d5twiRnKTVda7_EMSVhdJWd3DtVLwgNI26U7sjU)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: bedlamite on March 13, 2020, 11:00:08 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOPvuGZO_Fs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOPvuGZO_Fs)

We have achieved :facepalm:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on March 13, 2020, 11:01:53 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOPvuGZO_Fs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOPvuGZO_Fs)

We have achieved :facepalm:

Our education system at work.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Black Hills on March 13, 2020, 11:10:05 AM
and people wonder why our political system is the way it is.. these are the "masses" that are voting.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Max Wedge on March 13, 2020, 11:18:20 AM
Holy crap.  The governor just shut down every school in Michigan, K-12, till April 6- which is when our spring break starts.

I guess my chances of getting it just dropped.

But your chances of getting a nice ride in just way up. If you end up on the flat side of the state give me a holler, I know of a small local brewery that have big spacious tables we could talk across.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on March 13, 2020, 11:39:58 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOPvuGZO_Fs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOPvuGZO_Fs)

We have achieved :facepalm:

Our education system at work.  :facepalm:

I'm hoping my niece's graduation gets cancelled...or at least closed to non-graduates.  It's at 5:30 on a Thursday...utterly inconvenient as I'm over 2 hours away and have to work the next morning.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: maddjack on March 13, 2020, 11:44:11 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOPvuGZO_Fs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOPvuGZO_Fs)

We have achieved :facepalm:
  Its so stupid , its funny and sad at the same time. i couldn't even understand the one woman when she spoke whatever language she was speaking.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: SuperHans on March 13, 2020, 12:34:36 PM
Wife went to the store here in southern Maryland this morning. The place was a mad house she said. One of the employees said people were lined up outside waiting to get in the store a couple of hours before they opened.

There's all kinds of rumors flying around that the government is going to shutdown the entire country for one week. I'm sure this is all hysteria, but people are starting to get a little crazy.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: bedlamite on March 13, 2020, 12:40:17 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOPvuGZO_Fs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOPvuGZO_Fs)

We have achieved :facepalm:
  Its so stupid , its funny and sad at the same time. i couldn't even understand the one woman when she spoke whatever language she was speaking.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Black Hills on March 13, 2020, 12:53:29 PM
the gov. just announced that all K-12 schools will be shutdown next week?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Baxter on March 13, 2020, 01:02:36 PM
Lots of events are closing or postponing.  The Mama Tried motorcycle show and concert event has postponed to a date TBA.   :'(

Motorcycle riding probably has a low risk of disease transmission, just dirty gas pump handles.   :)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on March 13, 2020, 01:11:45 PM
Prez Cheeto will announce state of national emergency today at or after 3pm Eastern (sources are reporting).
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on March 13, 2020, 03:44:14 PM
Lots of events are closing or postponing.  The Mama Tried motorcycle show and concert event has postponed to a date TBA.   :'(

Motorcycle riding probably has a low risk of disease transmission, just dirty gas pump handles.   :)

And don’t swallow any flies
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on March 13, 2020, 05:35:15 PM
maybe I'll just go hide out in the woods and find a cave to live in until this is over?

Sadly, it is ENDEMIC.  Meaning it will FOREVER be with us.  I suppose if you can hold out until a vaccine is created, you'll have an effective immune response without first catching the disease, but hiding out and not getting it won't protect you from getting it later if there's no vaccine.

Not true. 

If the initial wave of the virus affects a bunch of people, they develop immunity after surviving it.  If you hide long enough for that to happen, there would be no one left to give it to you.  Herd immunity.  Enough have had it that it won't pass through again.  It's why the Spanish Flu, H1N1, name-the-virus hasn't come back through.  They got enough people the first time that there aren't enough to spread it again and it goes away.

I'm curious who is going to get it here first.  Prolly me given my exposure load.  If I do, I'll keep you updated.

We don't know yet if it's that kind of bug. There's no true immunity to the rhinovirus even though everyone gets it. All the time. Repeatedly. Every year. Sometimes several times a year. We're not really all that terribly immune to MOST viruses, certainly not naturally. A very small handful from the big pool of deadly, scary, painful, DNA-altering stuff.

The problem with covid is exactly all these unknowns; this is a new and novel species jump - and yes, that's a huge deal - and that's basically the underpinnings of a species ending event in all sorts of works of fiction; it's a scary idea for fiction exactly because it could very well end up being completely true one day.

Humanity may or may not come out of the other end of this with some level of immunity... or may not at all, ever. We don't know.

It's not about whether you get it. It's about how quickly it spreads from you to the 100, 200, 500 people you may encounter through a normal day or week, and how quickly the disease can overwhelm our medical infrastructure 'til we develop a vaccine, or determine if we can ever build natural immunity to it.

Go back and look through a history of dangerous, identified pathogens; viruses are scary, and again, MOST of them aren't something we have natural immunities to. Even now. Even after having them floating around society for centuries, and longer.

The Rhinovirus constantly mutates- it changes, which is why we can get it each year.  Could that happen to the Coronoa virus?  I suppose it could, but this virus doesn't have a history of doing that quickly, like the common cold.

MOST viruses don't affect people at all.  Those that do, we either die or we DO develop an immunity to- that's how the body works. 
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: biking sailor on March 13, 2020, 05:59:14 PM
Along with the washing hands and social distancing stuff, we also need to make sure we are getting mild exercise, plenty of sleep, a little sunshine and eat well to boost the immune system. And it would be a good time to try to quit smoking, unless that would stress you out too much. Healthy people seem to survive it with less issues.

Lets all try to be in the healthy group that minimizes the bad effects of this bastard virus.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on March 13, 2020, 06:15:22 PM
To follow up on what Clay said and compare apples to apples.....SARS has essentially disappeared. There is no vaccine for SARS because it never became a thing. Now there is a big difference between the two viruses.... SARS was more lethal but wasn't as transmissible - the number of cases was 100-fold less (at this time). And it was traced back to a very specific group of bats (no research lab leak here). But you can look this up on Wikipedia just like I did.

MERS is still around, and yet... isn't a thing either. Surprising as it is lethal in about a third of the cases. Don't kiss your camel. And don't hang out with Egyptian tomb bats either. But MERS is more different than SARS or COVID19 (aka SARS-COV-2). Oh... and no research lab leak here either. Bats, yet again. And camels (seriously).

Yes, I'm concerned, but not alarmist. The media has that job covered. I'm just appalled by the lack of knowledge that our society now has. This is biology 101 type of stuff or even junior high or high school health class or basic science.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on March 13, 2020, 07:56:22 PM
I'm fairly overwhelmed by all of this. So much input. A bit of fact smeared over with the fear-mongering of the media.
Finally I Googled "I'm afraid of the coronavirus".

This is the result I found most understandable.

My apologies if it's been posted previously. Like I said, so much input.

https://www.diamandis.com/blog/coronavirus-fear-vs-reality (https://www.diamandis.com/blog/coronavirus-fear-vs-reality)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on March 13, 2020, 09:13:40 PM
some very useful information inthere

Quote from: FEAR VS. REALITY - CORONAVIRUS
Q: Should I avoid Corona beer?

A: There’s no coronavirus-linked reason to pass on Corona beer — but in my opinion, it’s not very tasty.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on March 13, 2020, 11:42:29 PM
So, new trend. People are having drinks together via videoconferencing and calling it quarantinis.

This kind of thing will get us through.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on March 14, 2020, 02:45:45 AM
Well, I've got a mild virus. Swollen salivary glans, feel a bit unwell. Is it Corona virus? No. No cough. So, no self isolation and back to work. There's a lot of minor winter bugs around, including more severe ones like flu.

I received a helpful email from a medical colleague in Japan yesterday. If you can hold your breath for 10 seconds without coughing-it's not C 19.

For people asking if it mutates-yes it probably will. Most viruses mutate 6 monthly. But it's not going have time to mutate during this outbreak.

Government is very sensibly in the "delay" phase, to ease the burden on the NHS (which they have spent the last 10 years very stupidly cutting to ribbons). Peak over here is likely to be late April to mid June.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on March 14, 2020, 07:10:45 AM
I just left our local supermarket. I did actually need to pick up some things and while I was there I stocked up on canned soups and frozen vegetables. It's amazing to see how many people are clearing the shelves of perishable food items. There is no meat on the shelves. Well, there is no real meat. The plant-based food section is quite well stocked. It seems that even with the panic that is taking over our society, nobody eats that shit.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on March 14, 2020, 07:37:36 AM
The Rhinovirus constantly mutates- it changes, which is why we can get it each year.  Could that happen to the Coronoa virus?

I believe it’s already mutated in that there are two variants of the virus now.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on March 14, 2020, 08:01:25 AM
I believe it’s already mutated in that there are two variants of the virus now.

That has been reported.  I have also read that as a class, corona viruses do not mutate like rhinovirus does.

All part of the panic intentionally created by the media to undermine the economy.  Just wait until the weather warms up.   :facepalm:

[It's that not too subtle touch of cynicism that gets me into trouble.]  On my way to the gulag if the aliens don't pick me up first.

I just left our local supermarket. ... It's amazing to see how many people are clearing the shelves of perishable food items.

That's explains why everyone is stocking up on TP.  They are going to need it after the power goes out.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on March 14, 2020, 05:16:13 PM
Quote from: NY Times 2020/03/13
Worst-Case Estimates for U.S. Coronavirus Deaths

Projections based on C.D.C. scenarios show a potentially vast toll. But those numbers don’t account for interventions now underway.

Officials at the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and epidemic experts from universities around the world conferred last month about what might happen if the new coronavirus gained a foothold in the United States. How many people might die? How many would be infected and need hospitalization?

One of the agency’s top disease modelers, Matthew Biggerstaff, presented the group on the phone call with four possible scenarios — A, B, C and D — based on characteristics of the virus, including estimates of how transmissible it is and the severity of the illness it can cause. The assumptions, reviewed by The New York Times, were shared with about 50 expert teams to model how the virus could tear through the population — and what might stop it.

The C.D.C.’s scenarios were depicted in terms of percentages of the population. Translated into absolute numbers by independent experts using simple models of how viruses spread, the worst-case figures would be staggering if no actions were taken to slow transmission.

Between 160 million and 214 million people in the United States could be infected over the course of the epidemic, according to a projection that encompasses the range of the four scenarios. That could last months or even over a year, with infections concentrated in shorter periods, staggered across time in different communities, experts said. As many as 200,000 to 1.7 million people could die.

And, the calculations based on the C.D.C.’s scenarios suggested, 2.4 million to 21 million people in the United States could require hospitalization, potentially crushing the nation’s medical system, which has only about 925,000 staffed hospital beds. Fewer than a tenth of those are for people who are critically ill.

The assumptions fueling those scenarios are mitigated by the fact that cities, states, businesses and individuals are beginning to take steps to slow transmission, even if some are acting less aggressively than others. The C.D.C.-led effort is developing more sophisticated models showing how interventions might decrease the worst-case numbers, though their projections have not been made public.

“When people change their behavior," said Lauren Gardner, an associate professor at the Johns Hopkins Whiting School of Engineering who models epidemics, “those model parameters are no longer applicable,” so short-term forecasts are likely to be more accurate. “There is a lot of room for improvement if we act appropriately.”

Those actions include testing for the virus, tracing contacts, and reducing human interactions by stopping mass gatherings, working from home and curbing travel. In just the last two days, multiple schools and colleges closed, sports events were halted or delayed, Broadway theaters went dark, companies barred employees from going to the office and more people said they were following hygiene recommendations.

The Times obtained screenshots of the C.D.C. presentation, which has not been released publicly, from someone not involved in the meetings. The Times then verified the data with several scientists who did participate. The scenarios were marked valid until Feb. 28, but remain “roughly the same,” according to Ira Longini, co-director of the Center for Statistics and Quantitative Infectious Diseases at the University of Florida. He has joined in meetings of the group.

Dr. Longini said the scenarios he helped the C.D.C. refine had not been publicly disclosed because there remained uncertainty about certain key aspects, including how much transmission could occur from people who showed no symptoms or had only mild ones.

“We’re being very, very careful to make sure we have scientifically valid modeling that’s drawing properly on the epidemic and what’s known about the virus,” he said, warning that simple calculations could be misleading or even dangerous. “You can’t win. If you overdo it, you panic everybody. If you underdo it, they get complacent. You have to be careful.”

But without an understanding of how the nation’s top experts believe the virus could ravage the country, and what measures could slow it, it remains unclear how far Americans will go in adopting — or accepting — socially disruptive steps that could also avert deaths. And how quickly they will act.

Studies of previous epidemics have shown that the longer officials waited to encourage people to distance and protect themselves, the less useful those measures were in saving lives and preventing infections.

The four scenarios have different parameters, which is why the projections range so widely. They variously assume that each person with the coronavirus would infect either two or three people; that the hospitalization rate would be either 3 percent or 12; and that either 1 percent or a quarter of a percent of people experiencing symptoms would die. Those assumptions are based on what is known so far about how the virus has behaved in other contexts, including in China.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Vulcanbill on March 14, 2020, 09:00:27 PM
West Virginia still no reported cases. Only state without.

Yeeeessss. Finally, something good.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/03/health/us-coronavirus-cases-state-by-state/?iid=ob_mobile_article_footer_expansion (https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/03/health/us-coronavirus-cases-state-by-state/?iid=ob_mobile_article_footer_expansion)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on March 15, 2020, 02:28:18 AM
West Virginia still no reported cases. Only state without.

Yeeeessss. Finally, something good.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/03/health/us-coronavirus-cases-state-by-state/?iid=ob_mobile_article_footer_expansion (https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/03/health/us-coronavirus-cases-state-by-state/?iid=ob_mobile_article_footer_expansion)

Just like Indonesia. Remarkably disease free there as well. ;)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on March 15, 2020, 02:53:46 AM
ha ha

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/14/technology/coronavirus-purell-wipes-amazon-sellers.html?referringSource=articleShare&fbclid=IwAR3mXQLpcSVSstxDUnOgk5ctBJzRO2A0MbZVhS6dL8MOgnkwU5wxWJPZCyk (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/14/technology/coronavirus-purell-wipes-amazon-sellers.html?referringSource=articleShare&fbclid=IwAR3mXQLpcSVSstxDUnOgk5ctBJzRO2A0MbZVhS6dL8MOgnkwU5wxWJPZCyk)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on March 15, 2020, 04:18:11 AM
ha ha

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/14/technology/coronavirus-purell-wipes-amazon-sellers.html?referringSource=articleShare&fbclid=IwAR3mXQLpcSVSstxDUnOgk5ctBJzRO2A0MbZVhS6dL8MOgnkwU5wxWJPZCyk (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/14/technology/coronavirus-purell-wipes-amazon-sellers.html?referringSource=articleShare&fbclid=IwAR3mXQLpcSVSstxDUnOgk5ctBJzRO2A0MbZVhS6dL8MOgnkwU5wxWJPZCyk)

Silly wabbit, only retailers can price gouge and get away with it.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Vulcanbill on March 15, 2020, 07:07:14 AM
West Virginia still no reported cases. Only state without.

Yeeeessss. Finally, something good.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/03/health/us-coronavirus-cases-state-by-state/?iid=ob_mobile_article_footer_expansion (https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/03/health/us-coronavirus-cases-state-by-state/?iid=ob_mobile_article_footer_expansion)

Just like Indonesia. Remarkably disease free there as well. ;)

Do they have a natural methamphetamine resistance as well?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Andrew on March 16, 2020, 09:08:58 PM
I just got this, so I bet the stores are going to get slammed more than they have been. On the bright side the traffic should all but disappear.
Too bad I am part of the government's "Essential Services"

 
San Mateo County Health Shelter In Place Order

SMC Alert <noreply@everbridge.net>
6:58 PM (4 minutes ago)
to me

SMC Alert - San Mateo County's Alert System
The Health Officer of San Mateo County has issued a shelter-in-place order, effective 12:01 a.m. Tuesday, March 17, 2020, to help prevent the spread of COVID-19. For more information on the order, including exceptions for essential activities and FAQs, please visit www.smcgov.org (http://www.smcgov.org)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on March 16, 2020, 11:38:00 PM
I couldn't find a second source, but I read earlier today in a scrolling news feed on some foreign tv station while at the pharmacy (tv in waiting area) that there have been "reported cases of reinfection a few months after getting over the virus". O_o

Again, I couldn't find a second source.

I assume it's the same everywhere, but everything here has become the typical stuff; non-essential personnel stay home, non-essential businesses *should* stay closed, food places will be ordered to close dining areas, and prepare for take-out/drive-through only, and so on. I know a couple people with small businesses that have decided they can't and won't try to survive this, and have made now the time to close their doors forever. One's a restaurant, one is a small art / curio consignment shop / gallery.

The world is changing.

** edit **

Also: https://9to5mac.com/2020/03/16/itunes-theater-rentals-universal/?fbclid=IwAR27iJ0FTr3NBTBvWNCIsGQ-sIXgmOG62QnK_8imrRMjeZfzfHB11Qz6oIY

I expect this to be a continuing thing after the virus alert has relaxed, and this lockdown to be seen as the catalyst for normalizing these rental models.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on March 17, 2020, 01:44:24 AM
no more going to theatres or pubs. what?!

phew, that's only in London.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: SuperHans on March 17, 2020, 05:38:52 AM

I expect this to be a continuing thing after the virus alert has relaxed, and this lockdown to be seen as the catalyst for normalizing these rental models.

Apparently bands are beginning to live stream their concerts since they can no longer have large crowds at venues.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/code-orange-gnash-against-me-diplo-stream-shows-coronavirus-1492333%3famp=1 (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/code-orange-gnash-against-me-diplo-stream-shows-coronavirus-1492333%3famp=1)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on March 17, 2020, 12:18:52 PM
no more going to theatres or pubs. what?!

phew, that's only in London.

Not just London  :beerchug:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Vulcanbill on March 17, 2020, 12:35:03 PM

I expect this to be a continuing thing after the virus alert has relaxed, and this lockdown to be seen as the catalyst for normalizing these rental models.

Apparently bands are beginning to live stream their concerts since they can no longer have large crowds at venues.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/code-orange-gnash-against-me-diplo-stream-shows-coronavirus-1492333%3famp=1 (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/code-orange-gnash-against-me-diplo-stream-shows-coronavirus-1492333%3famp=1)

Click on link.  Some video somewhere starts to auto play.  Immediately close entire website regardless of how interesting it might be.  Man I hate that. 
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on March 17, 2020, 05:23:23 PM
I couldn't find a second source, but I read earlier today in a scrolling news feed on some foreign tv station while at the pharmacy (tv in waiting area) that there have been "reported cases of reinfection a few months after getting over the virus". O_o

Again, I couldn't find a second source.

(snip)

There have been a few scattered reports but the general consensus is that these were people that were released before they recovered. They're not reinfections but relapses of the same infection. Not confirmed either way, but the relapse seems more likely.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on March 17, 2020, 05:26:22 PM
I just got this, so I bet the stores are going to get slammed more than they have been. On the bright side the traffic should all but disappear.
Too bad I am part of the government's "Essential Services"

 
San Mateo County Health Shelter In Place Order

SMC Alert <noreply@everbridge.net>
6:58 PM (4 minutes ago)
to me

SMC Alert - San Mateo County's Alert System
The Health Officer of San Mateo County has issued a shelter-in-place order, effective 12:01 a.m. Tuesday, March 17, 2020, to help prevent the spread of COVID-19. For more information on the order, including exceptions for essential activities and FAQs, please visit [url=http://www.smcgov.org]www.smcgov.org[/url] ([url]http://www.smcgov.org[/url])


Yeah, I heard you all just got that. We're waiting for the shelter in place orders to work their way down the coast. Actually, it will probably go L.A., skip to San Diego, and then back up to us here in OC because our county's public health dept. still has their thumb up their butt.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on March 17, 2020, 07:02:02 PM
^^^
Oops. Bad guess. Orange County was just shut down. The headline: "Bans All Public, Private Gatherings - Including Work - Outside Single Household"
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: leeo45 on March 17, 2020, 10:26:28 PM
The Rhinovirus constantly mutates- it changes, which is why we can get it each year.  Could that happen to the Coronoa virus?

I believe it’s already mutated in that there are two variants of the virus now.

This type of virus, and generally all RNA viruses, tend to mutate at a very fast rate due to the way they reproduce in the host cells.    One of the keys to an epidemic is whether the changes make it more, less, or equally virulent and dangerous to humans.  Experts believe that mutations to a more deadly strain were a big part of what drove the death rate of the 'Spanish Flu' pandemic in 1918.    Here are the known and tracked mutations of SARS-CoV-2 since the first cases in Wuhan in December 2019.   It seems that all of these identified strains are behaving similarly.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


If you want to jump down the rabbit hole, here is a link to the site:   https://nextstrain.org/ncov     

You can slide the right side of the date range and actually see the cases spread across the globe as well as the progression of the genetic mutations.   Highlight the node on each branch in the Phylogeny chart and see where that strain was identified and what change(s) took place.   

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on March 18, 2020, 08:33:44 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/japanese-flu-drug-clearly-effective-in-treating-coronavirus-says-china/ar-BB11llda?ocid=spartanntp (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/japanese-flu-drug-clearly-effective-in-treating-coronavirus-says-china/ar-BB11llda?ocid=spartanntp)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: 1KPerDay on March 18, 2020, 01:16:38 PM
FYI from my brother the ER doc if interested:


Hey guys, I have been meaning to send a text out to you especially after the meeting I had this morning with the other doctors at my hospital (by phone). It was all about the coronavirus. Initially I think we all felt this was just a dumb virus and there was a lot of social over reactions, however we are seeing two things happening, number one this is more deadly and more contagious than influenza by a long shot, And hospitals are already being overwhelmed. People are getting very sick, and especially the elderly, by which I mean anyone older than 65.

All of the data shows that by decreasing the rate of spread we will prevent the high spike in transmission which will help hospitals not be overwhelmed. Which helps people not die.

New data shows about 25% of infected patients don’t have symptoms, but they are highly infectious. Especially in the first week of infection.

We are also now realizing that there are likely thousands of true positive cases that aren’t reported, and I think we will all have friends or family that end up being infected by this virus.

My guidance Would be to not have any get togethers. I think we need to understand how serious this really is.

Happy to discuss this further and answer any questions. It is a daily change of information, the situation is very fluid.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on March 18, 2020, 01:29:38 PM
Gosh. Imagine that.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: leeo45 on March 18, 2020, 02:06:46 PM
The output of a fairly sophisticated, peer-reviewed model was published in Science on Monday about the cases in China.    It estimated that in the period prior to the 23 January travel restrictions only 14% of cases were identified.   

Quote
These findings explain the rapid geographic spread of SARS-CoV2 and indicate containment of this virus will be particularly challenging.

It is especially true that children and teenagers can be infected, be contagious, and show very few if any symptoms.   

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: PatM on March 18, 2020, 08:52:59 PM
I don't know if this is fake news or what but I read that amongst other drugs (experimental) being fast paced, Hydroxychloroquine is being tested with promising results. From what I gather this is an old medication used to treat malaria.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/marybethpfeiffer/2020/03/18/science-works-to-use-old-cheap-drugs-to-attack-coronavirus--it-might-just-work/#4b3dbf0b5c49 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/marybethpfeiffer/2020/03/18/science-works-to-use-old-cheap-drugs-to-attack-coronavirus--it-might-just-work/#4b3dbf0b5c49)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: SuperHans on March 18, 2020, 09:38:22 PM
I had read the same thing somewhere else.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on March 18, 2020, 10:11:55 PM
There is SO much misinformation out there it is amazing.  Even professionals are getting varying information, as amply demonstrated by this thread.

Wash your hands, keep the social distancing, and be ready for this to go on for at least a couple months now.

Remember flattening the curve doesn't change the amount of infected, it just spreads it over a longer time.

I'm starting to think that our reaction to the virus has the potential to destroy many more lives in the end than the actual virus.  For example there are scads of local businesses that will not recover from this- and there will be hundreds of thousands that will be getting no income during the duration.

Of course I could be wrong.   I hope I am.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on March 18, 2020, 10:54:59 PM
For example there are scads of local businesses that will not recover from this- and there will be hundreds of thousands that will be getting no income during the duration.

Of course I could be wrong.   I hope I am.

You're not. I'm seeing in my job and with customers and prospective customers. I have some friends who have small businesses; plans are already under way to cash out and call it quits because they run at such thin margins. :(
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: PatM on March 19, 2020, 12:08:24 PM
Interesting video

https://youtu.be/BIymfznD7YA
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Baxter on March 19, 2020, 04:07:46 PM
I woke up this morning with more than my usual allergy-driven post-nasal drip.  It's most likely just a cold (been spending more time with school age kids).  But I spent some time with a bro-in-law who has been flying commercially every week for work, and a niece recently came down with strep.

So I'm really doing more social isolation, and chose to move into the guest room to reduce the risk to my wife.

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on March 19, 2020, 07:01:50 PM
We both had nasty colds last week and stayed home. It was coronavirus because no fever, but you don't want to spread that stuff either because it makes others more vulnerable.

On the other hand, if you walk around with a cold right now, you can have fun scaring the pants off people.    ;)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on March 19, 2020, 07:46:23 PM
A fun new game; run directly at strangers. Maybe they scream and run away. Maybe they shoot you. Life is chaos!!!!
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on March 19, 2020, 09:42:56 PM
And in actual on-topic news:  KTM, Ducati, Yamaha, and several other manufacturers (primarily Euro) have shut down.

Most just until the end of the month. For now.

EDIT:  I think that was Yammie's Euro factories.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on March 20, 2020, 04:14:14 AM
Bristol VA/TN is so ravaged by the effects of COVID-19 that you can actually find available parking on State Street during peak hours.  ;D
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on March 20, 2020, 10:15:23 AM
FDA issued 2 new guidances on hand sanitizers:

Temporary Policy for Preparation of Certain Alcohol-Based Hand Sanitizer Products During the Public Health Emergency (COVID-19)

Policy for Temporary Compounding of Certain Alcohol-Based Hand Sanitizer Products During the Public Health Emergency

LOL   This stuff is simple as sin to make.  I see a limited business opportunity here (for a moonshiner who has some kettles and simple bottling equipment and wants to go straight), all you need is carbopol, glycerin, NaOH, fragrance and alcohol, of course.

Then again, with the state (alcohol) stores in PA being closed, there's no need for them to change their business model.  All they need to do is expand their distribution network.

Then again, they face stiff competition.  Liquor stores in nearby states are running coupons in our local paper.  I'm surprised that isn't against the law, YET.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: mr.awesome on March 20, 2020, 10:42:31 AM
One of our local breweries is making hand sanitizer.  Mainly for the healthcare providers and first responders. They have over a 1000 gals made already. Hats off to them for helping the healthcare community.
But of course if an individual stops by for a 4 pack of beer and a sandwich to go they will give you a bottle. Genius marketing. 

https://www.fox2detroit.com/video/665865 (https://www.fox2detroit.com/video/665865)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on March 20, 2020, 11:17:45 AM
Over the course of the last week we have developed and implemented a rather extensive policy and procedure for the separation of employees. It includes no more than six people in the break room at a time, one shift can't commingle with the other shift. We are using separate parking lots. Only so many at the time clock at a time. There are areas marked off signifying 6-foot intervals for walking and standing where there are groups such as meetings. We have established a perimeter that truckers must remain in as to decrease the influx of people into the plants. So, today I witnessed one of the women that works in the shipping department come out walk into the shipping area walk right up to one of the truckers, throw her arms around him and give him a big hug. She has no clue why three people said something and she's pissed at all of us. Yes, us. She says that she's not taking this virus thing seriously she's hugging all her church people and she doesn't see what the big deal is all about. Sweet Jesus.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on March 20, 2020, 11:26:22 AM
Stupid bitch.

Sadly, while most people are not her, I'm still seeing and hearing a lot of people with such cavalier attitudes. It's asinine. IT COSTS NOTHNG TO FOLLOW THESE BASIC GUIDELINES.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on March 20, 2020, 12:41:31 PM
A Bern distillery (https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/disaster-breeds-diversity_bern-distillers-use-their-alcohol-to-help-fight-viruses/45619964) has switched over to making hand sanitiser.


Hard times, indeed  :beerchug:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Baxter on March 20, 2020, 12:59:19 PM
Possibly for the good news thread, the local paper in Milwaukee reported earlier this week that all Wisconsin's TP manufacturers are operating at full speed.  And we have a lot of them. I also imagine that this is the case with every other TP factory everywhere.

Also on the local front:  there's been a run on absentee ballots (Go print some more!  Yea democracy!), Go Fund Me's and such are stepping up for restaurant & bar workers, and grocery stores are hiring.  And stores that were caught by surprise by the hoarders have been implementing inventory controls and purchase limits.  Hopefully we won't need to introduce WWII style rationing.

There's gonna be some loser punks out there, but hopefully the good will outweigh the bad.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on March 20, 2020, 02:04:08 PM
Gah. Pubs, restaurants, cafes all closed from tomorrow.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: maddjack on March 20, 2020, 03:32:54 PM
I would tell her in no uncertain terms,that she is a selfish dumbass
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Black Hills on March 20, 2020, 03:55:52 PM
Over the course of the last week we have developed and implemented a rather extensive policy and procedure for the separation of employees. It includes no more than six people in the break room at a time, one shift can't commingle with the other shift. We are using separate parking lots. Only so many at the time clock at a time. There are areas marked off signifying 6-foot intervals for walking and standing where there are groups such as meetings. We have established a perimeter that truckers must remain in as to decrease the influx of people into the plants. So, today I witnessed one of the women that works in the shipping department come out walk into the shipping area walk right up to one of the truckers, throw her arms around him and give him a big hug. She has no clue why three people said something and she's pissed at all of us. Yes, us. She says that she's not taking this virus thing seriously she's hugging all her church people and she doesn't see what the big deal is all about. Sweet Jesus.

the lord will save her.... ;)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on March 20, 2020, 08:51:49 PM
Over the course of the last week we have developed and implemented a rather extensive policy and procedure for the separation of employees. It includes no more than six people in the break room at a time, one shift can't commingle with the other shift. We are using separate parking lots. Only so many at the time clock at a time. There are areas marked off signifying 6-foot intervals for walking and standing where there are groups such as meetings. We have established a perimeter that truckers must remain in as to decrease the influx of people into the plants. So, today I witnessed one of the women that works in the shipping department come out walk into the shipping area walk right up to one of the truckers, throw her arms around him and give him a big hug. She has no clue why three people said something and she's pissed at all of us. Yes, us. She says that she's not taking this virus thing seriously she's hugging all her church people and she doesn't see what the big deal is all about. Sweet Jesus.

the lord will save her.... ;)

Or meet her.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Black Hills on March 20, 2020, 09:12:53 PM
One or the other.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Jim on March 20, 2020, 10:19:28 PM
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/

Good stuff - esp the "Total Recovered" number.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: PatM on March 20, 2020, 11:07:11 PM
Italy has gone over 4000 deaths   :-\

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-they-call-it-the-apocalypse-inside-italys-hardest-hit-hospital-11960597?fbclid=IwAR2QZjiV2ye_q-E7qUmR9srbpXRVxWPypNasoDJAzKFaoWu__fy-aZaZO-M (https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-they-call-it-the-apocalypse-inside-italys-hardest-hit-hospital-11960597?fbclid=IwAR2QZjiV2ye_q-E7qUmR9srbpXRVxWPypNasoDJAzKFaoWu__fy-aZaZO-M)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on March 21, 2020, 02:17:44 AM
the idiots who have bought all the lavatory paper have forced others to use newspaper and sanitary wipes. sewers are getting blocked as a result.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Flyer on March 21, 2020, 06:07:43 AM
https://www.iol.co.za/capetimes/news/watch-debate-raging-on-link-between-5g-technology-coronavirus-pandemic-45124913 (https://www.iol.co.za/capetimes/news/watch-debate-raging-on-link-between-5g-technology-coronavirus-pandemic-45124913)
 :facepalm:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on March 21, 2020, 07:15:23 AM
Sounds ok to me.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Vulcanbill on March 21, 2020, 07:30:54 AM
Stupid trucker hugger. 😒
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on March 21, 2020, 07:32:02 AM
Stupid trucker hugger. 😒

She has a history of doing more than hugging them.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Vulcanbill on March 21, 2020, 09:15:25 AM
Customer service
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on March 21, 2020, 09:40:59 AM
Customer service

Be good at what you do.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Bounce on March 21, 2020, 09:52:57 AM
Over the course of the last week we have developed and implemented a rather extensive policy and procedure for the separation of employees. It includes no more than six people in the break room at a time, one shift can't commingle with the other shift. We are using separate parking lots. Only so many at the time clock at a time. There are areas marked off signifying 6-foot intervals for walking and standing where there are groups such as meetings. We have established a perimeter that truckers must remain in as to decrease the influx of people into the plants. So, today I witnessed one of the women that works in the shipping department come out walk into the shipping area walk right up to one of the truckers, throw her arms around him and give him a big hug. She has no clue why three people said something and she's pissed at all of us. Yes, us. She says that she's not taking this virus thing seriously she's hugging all her church people and she doesn't see what the big deal is all about. Sweet Jesus.

A write-up in her HR folder and a 2 week suspension would go a long way to stop her and others from doing it again (and legal under the terms of employment vis a vis disobeying company policy.

the idiots who have bought all the lavatory paper have forced others to use newspaper and sanitary wipes. sewers are getting blocked as a result.

https://www.amazon.com/Luxe-Bidet-Neo-120-Non-Electric/dp/B01N3Q09XF?th=1 (https://www.amazon.com/Luxe-Bidet-Neo-120-Non-Electric/dp/B01N3Q09XF?th=1)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Bounce on March 21, 2020, 09:55:26 AM
dupe
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on March 21, 2020, 09:59:24 AM
Stupid trucker hugger. 😒

She has a history of doing more than hugging them.

I wouldn't visit her church then....
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on March 21, 2020, 11:36:26 AM
Stupid trucker hugger. 😒

She has a history of doing more than hugging them.

I wouldn't visit her church then....

 I believe she goes to church to repent.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on March 21, 2020, 12:16:03 PM
Stupid trucker hugger. 😒

She has a history of doing more than hugging them.

I wouldn't visit her church then....

 I believe she goes to church to repent.

Or to re-pant. A-hem.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on March 21, 2020, 12:38:31 PM
Stupid trucker hugger. 😒

She has a history of doing more than hugging them.

I wouldn't visit her church then....

 I believe she goes to church to repent.

Or to re-pant. A-hem.

snerk
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on March 21, 2020, 10:04:52 PM
https://www.iol.co.za/capetimes/news/watch-debate-raging-on-link-between-5g-technology-coronavirus-pandemic-45124913 (https://www.iol.co.za/capetimes/news/watch-debate-raging-on-link-between-5g-technology-coronavirus-pandemic-45124913)
 :facepalm:

I have a good friend who believe that.  SHe's kind of whacked.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on March 22, 2020, 06:34:07 AM
Humanity. Don't wanna see it all die. Can't stand out collectively stupid it can be. (sigh)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on March 22, 2020, 08:30:34 AM
I have a good friend who believe that.  SHe's kind of whacked.

Sadly, would not doubt it could be a factor.  Lots of reports about the dangers of 5G, and it was implemented in spite of them.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on March 22, 2020, 07:17:59 PM
Got this off the comment section of a YouTube video.  Take it for what it’s worth.

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on March 22, 2020, 08:28:17 PM
That is true. Chinese government has their hands in a LOT of stuff.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on March 23, 2020, 06:59:46 PM
As of this afternoon, the Scripps hospital chain (a small local chain here in San Diego) has 86 patients hospitalized with covid-19.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on March 27, 2020, 08:57:58 AM
This is depressing; stuck at home and reading this.

How the Pandemic Will End
The U.S. may end up with the worst COVID-19 outbreak in the industrialized world.  (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/how-will-coronavirus-end/608719/?utm_source=pocket-newtab)

Quote
A recent analysis from the University of Pennsylvania estimated that even if social-distancing measures can reduce infection rates by 95 percent, 960,000 Americans will still need intensive care.

...if Americans adhere to social distancing, if testing can be rolled out, and if enough masks can be produced, there is a chance that the country can still avert the worst predictions about COVID-19, and at least temporarily bring the pandemic under control.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on March 27, 2020, 10:19:13 AM
https://streetu3a.org/images/fun_photos/The%20Ladybird%20Book%20of%20COVID-19.pdf
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on March 27, 2020, 10:22:01 AM
This is depressing; stuck at home and reading this.

How the Pandemic Will End
The U.S. may end up with the worst COVID-19 outbreak in the industrialized world.  (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/how-will-coronavirus-end/608719/?utm_source=pocket-newtab)

Quote
A recent analysis from the University of Pennsylvania estimated that even if social-distancing measures can reduce infection rates by 95 percent, 960,000 Americans will still need intensive care.

...if Americans adhere to social distancing, if testing can be rolled out, and if enough masks can be produced, there is a chance that the country can still avert the worst predictions about COVID-19, and at least temporarily bring the pandemic under control.

I've been watching the lack of preparation and leadership in the US with horror.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Andrew on March 27, 2020, 10:47:46 AM
This is depressing; stuck at home and reading this.

How the Pandemic Will End
The U.S. may end up with the worst COVID-19 outbreak in the industrialized world.  (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/how-will-coronavirus-end/608719/?utm_source=pocket-newtab)

Quote
A recent analysis from the University of Pennsylvania estimated that even if social-distancing measures can reduce infection rates by 95 percent, 960,000 Americans will still need intensive care.

...if Americans adhere to social distancing, if testing can be rolled out, and if enough masks can be produced, there is a chance that the country can still avert the worst predictions about COVID-19, and at least temporarily bring the pandemic under control.

I've been watching the lack of preparation and leadership in the US with horror.

Well we did get the government we asked for (or lack there of) It's a shame

As I read the lack of prep and leadership in the news, I keep going back to old Ronnie Raygun quote  "The scariest thing you ever hear is Hi I'm from the government and I am here to help" 
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on March 27, 2020, 11:16:07 AM
I've been watching the lack of preparation and leadership in the US with horror.

Me too. 

It is like having already seen a scary movie so you know the ending, and now you're watching your friends watch the same movie, completely unprepared for the shit storm that is about to hit them.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on March 27, 2020, 11:47:30 AM
I've been watching the lack of preparation and leadership in the US with horror.

Me too. 

It is like having already seen a scary movie so you know the ending, and now you're watching your friends watch the same movie, completely unprepared for the shit storm that is about to hit them.

It's a shame the person responsible for this will get out alive. I know we can't post politics here (unless it's not US politics).
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on March 27, 2020, 12:03:14 PM
Well. New York state accounts for 48% of the cases in the US as of this site today:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/)

Bill Gates posted a TED talk in 2015 about our lack of preparation: https://www.ted.com/talks/bill_gates_the_next_outbreak_we_re_not_ready (https://www.ted.com/talks/bill_gates_the_next_outbreak_we_re_not_ready)

Yes. Feel free to NOT talk politics; there's enough blame to go around.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Vulcanbill on March 27, 2020, 12:06:40 PM
I've been watching the lack of preparation and leadership in the US with horror.

Me too. 

It is like having already seen a scary movie so you know the ending, and now you're watching your friends watch the same movie, completely unprepared for the shit storm that is about to hit them.

It's a shame the person responsible for this will get out alive. I know we can't post politics here (unless it's not US politics).

Boris Johnson tested positive.  Not political.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on March 27, 2020, 12:35:31 PM
Bill Gates posted a TED talk in 2015 about our lack of preparation: https://www.ted.com/talks/bill_gates_the_next_outbreak_we_re_not_ready (https://www.ted.com/talks/bill_gates_the_next_outbreak_we_re_not_ready)

That was a good interview. I recommend watching it.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on March 27, 2020, 12:49:13 PM
This is depressing; stuck at home and reading this.

How the Pandemic Will End
The U.S. may end up with the worst COVID-19 outbreak in the industrialized world.  (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/how-will-coronavirus-end/608719/?utm_source=pocket-newtab)

Possible, but "worst" must be determined by per capita outcomes.  NYC has more people than many nations.  As a country, the USA may fare better than most others.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on March 27, 2020, 12:55:11 PM
This is depressing; stuck at home and reading this.

How the Pandemic Will End
The U.S. may end up with the worst COVID-19 outbreak in the industrialized world.  (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/how-will-coronavirus-end/608719/?utm_source=pocket-newtab)

Possible, but "worst" must be determined by per capita outcomes.  NYC has more people than many nations.  As a country, the USA may fare better than most others.

No it won't. Witness: florida

And this country takes its "freedom" to extremes. I mean, people are balking at the shut down orders and our own whackjob leader doesn't want a bad economy on his watch, so he's making noise about urging people back to work.

Once again, when that office speaks, regardless of the idiot occupying it, things happen, things move, things react.

The president says people should go back to work, and asshats start reopening their doors.

The president says "good people, many sides, all side" and neo-nazis come out of the woodwork.

That office carries gravitas. The nutjob occupying it has to respect that power. This idiot du jour not only doesn't respect it, he flouts that responsibility with utter impunity and with abandon.

Good job, US Voters. Good job.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on March 27, 2020, 01:17:38 PM
I've been watching the lack of preparation and leadership in the US with horror.

Me too. 

It is like having already seen a scary movie so you know the ending, and now you're watching your friends watch the same movie, completely unprepared for the shit storm that is about to hit them.

It's a shame the person responsible for this will get out alive. I know we can't post politics here (unless it's not US politics).

You are a tolerant person, Papa.  (Did I really just post that; I take it back.)

I did not mean to start a political discussion.   Though it's kinda hard to avoid.

Kinda ironic how China how has now closed its borders to people traveling from the Western World.

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on March 27, 2020, 01:24:36 PM
I've been watching the lack of preparation and leadership in the US with horror.

Me too. 

It is like having already seen a scary movie so you know the ending, and now you're watching your friends watch the same movie, completely unprepared for the shit storm that is about to hit them.

It's a shame the person responsible for this will get out alive. I know we can't post politics here (unless it's not US politics).

You are a tolerant person, Papa.  (Did I really just post that; I take it back.)

I did not mean to start a political discussion.   Though it's kinda hard to avoid.

Kinda ironic how China how has now closed its borders to people traveling from the Western World.

We screwed up in the UK. We knew it was coming in January and we ............... did nothing and wasted February.

Eat more Pangolins. You know it makes sense.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on March 27, 2020, 01:46:10 PM
......................
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on March 27, 2020, 01:53:58 PM
NO POLITICS, please

We can discuss COVID-19 without dragging in political names or parties.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on March 27, 2020, 02:03:18 PM
just a bit angry, DD.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on March 27, 2020, 02:18:42 PM
just a bit angry, DD.

Not directed at anyone in particular, Papa.

And the anger is understandable  :flush:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on March 27, 2020, 02:31:36 PM
This is depressing; stuck at home and reading this.

How the Pandemic Will End
The U.S. may end up with the worst COVID-19 outbreak in the industrialized world.  (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/how-will-coronavirus-end/608719/?utm_source=pocket-newtab)

Possible, but "worst" must be determined by per capita outcomes.  NYC has more people than many nations.  As a country, the USA may fare better than most others.

Not given the path we're on.   Here's a really nice video on exponential growth, by the way:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54XLXg4fYsc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54XLXg4fYsc)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on March 28, 2020, 11:12:33 AM
A somewhat technical piece explaining how COVID-19 jumped the species barrier and attacks humans that is written in layman's terms.  Totally non-political; I promise.

From Bats to Human Lungs, the Evolution of a Coronavirus (https://www.newyorker.com/science/elements/from-bats-to-human-lungs-the-evolution-of-a-coronavirus?utm_source=pocket&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=pockethits)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on March 28, 2020, 12:53:36 PM
My UK-familiar friends will appreciate this one:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on March 28, 2020, 02:17:37 PM
I  never knew your were so familiar with UK supermarket chains.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on March 28, 2020, 02:21:16 PM
Some because I've spent some time in the UK, and some because we watch BBC and the ads are always there.

What I found funny was how quickly I read it in the Shipping Forecast voice and speech pattern  ;D
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on March 28, 2020, 02:53:13 PM
The Shipping Forecast should be classed as a virtual World Heritage Site.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: maddjack on March 29, 2020, 09:13:13 AM
I see Connecticut is quarantining  itself ,by not allowing anyone with New York plates to cross into Connecticut. I wonder who is next?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Vulcanbill on March 29, 2020, 09:38:49 AM
Rhode Island
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on March 29, 2020, 09:38:56 AM
“They say  that in America you can go from state to state to state, without papers.” — Capt Borodin
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on March 29, 2020, 09:57:23 AM
I see Connecticut is quarantining  itself ,by not allowing anyone with New York plates to cross into Connecticut. I wonder who is next?

I saw that Florida was also checking on cars with NY plates...
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cablebandit on March 29, 2020, 12:25:41 PM
They cut the Megabus service that was still running back and forth from here to NYC.

Now if they could give Philly back to New Jersey and cut that line as well.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Andrew on March 29, 2020, 12:54:48 PM
Logging in to work it seems
we have shut the school runs  :confused: schools have been closed for two weeks
 gone from normal service to weekend service all week. Seems as ridership has fallen 90% DUHHH
Passengers are only boarded and disembarked from the rear doors coupled with free fare
But operators are not allowed to wear facemasks ??? gives the wrong message  :bash: :nuts: seriously WTF  theses brave folks should be given bonus pay and full protective gear.

OH well crazy town continues, week after next I have a hydraulic brake class scheduled to teach and 4 confirmed attendees so far  :o

Seems that the SOP on how to decontaminate a bus I wrote during the swine flu som years back has gone into effect big time 
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on April 01, 2020, 06:52:14 PM
Italian Researchers Identify New SARS-CoV-2 Gene Variants (https://www.americanpharmaceuticalreview.com/1315-News/562433-Italian-Researchers-Identify-New-SARS-CoV-2-Gene-Variants/)
Quote
The findings, ..., increase the likelihood that future coronavirus vaccines can have a higher rate of effectiveness and could help the global scientific community's effort to better understand the epidemiology and spread of COVID-19.

The two independent research teams ... sequenced multiple samples and identified the presence of gene variants when compared against the original Wuhan coronavirus reference genome. Viruses that mutate rapidly over short periods of time make it challenging to develop effective vaccines that protect people against infection. The low number of variants discovered in the Italian samples two months after the virus was first sequenced in China suggests that SARS-CoV-2, which has infected more than an estimated 64,000 people in Italy and 380,000 globally, is a relatively slow-mutating pathogen.

"Had we investigated other viruses we might have expected up to dozens of new mutations after so many infectious cycles in patients. Our initial data show that this is a very stable RNA virus, with only five novel variants. A virus with a stable genome is good news for vaccine development because it indicates that the effectiveness of vaccines could be more consistent, possibly over many years," Professor Stefano Menzo, head of Virology at Ancona University Hospital, said.

Just thought you might like to know...
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on April 01, 2020, 07:03:09 PM
Yeah, it is nice to hear some good news.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Andrew on April 01, 2020, 07:15:40 PM
Double that, a bit of good news in a bleak news day.

Confession: I got stuck in a room with FOX news on, life looks bleak and I need a shower after ½ hour of it.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 01, 2020, 11:59:46 PM
first 3 patients with Covid 19. it begins.

Yesterday morning, some random member of the public stole all of the hospital's PPE off the delivery truck.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: leeo45 on April 02, 2020, 02:05:04 AM
Yesterday morning, some random member of the public stole all of the hospital's PPE off the delivery truck.
Unbelievable.  The English language doesn't have the words to express how much of a scumbag that person is.  :firedevil:   I hope your supply chain system is better equipped to recover from that loss than it would be over here.    Stay safe.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 02, 2020, 09:13:34 AM
Yesterday morning, some random member of the public stole all of the hospital's PPE off the delivery truck.
Unbelievable.  The English language doesn't have the words to express how much of a scumbag that person is.  :firedevil:   I hope your supply chain system is better equipped to recover from that loss than it would be over here.    Stay safe.

thanks. Got more in the afternoon. At last, I have a fitted mask. Consultant has Covid 19.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: bedlamite on April 02, 2020, 11:26:06 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUo1w5aSkro (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUo1w5aSkro)

Short version: virus researcher at Chinese biolab collects samples from bats.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on April 02, 2020, 12:09:37 PM
Got more in the afternoon. At last, I have a fitted mask.

 :chili:

Consultant has Covid 19

 :confused:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Andrew on April 02, 2020, 08:46:18 PM
Yesterday morning, some random member of the public stole all of the hospital's PPE off the delivery truck.
Unbelievable.  The English language doesn't have the words to express how much of a scumbag that person is.  :firedevil:   I hope your supply chain system is better equipped to recover from that loss than it would be over here.    Stay safe.

thanks. Got more in the afternoon. At last, I have a fitted mask. Consultant has Covid 19.

Some folks just don't get it. Really steal from doctors?? and who is going to be there when they need help, Some folks just don't get it

Glad you got the PPE, and stay safe  You know the drill
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 03, 2020, 12:52:06 AM
:)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on April 03, 2020, 10:40:18 PM
LA County finally went legal, filing charges against 4 businesses that wouldn't close -- 2 smoke shops, a shoe store, and a discount electronics store.  Next door here in Orange County, we haven't started that yet.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on April 04, 2020, 08:57:14 AM
And I read where they fined a paddle-boarder in Malibu. 

I understand the paddle-boarder was practicing social distancing; unless circumstances arose that required a First Responder.  Can't people think beyond their own self-interest and sacrifice a small bit of personal liberty for the greater well-being of others?

I know, makes me sound like a communist.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Vulcanbill on April 04, 2020, 09:28:14 AM
I work right by the AT. Every day I see a bunch of cars in the parking lot. They put up road closed signs and they park by the signs.  I am torn on the hiking thing. Seems like a good sanity check and it wouldn't be hard to step off the trail to let someone pass...  I get the hardliners saying stay home but I also get a walk in the woods if done properly. Glad I have property.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 04, 2020, 10:44:51 AM
I just saw a petition on FB trying to get the Gov. to reopen the golf courses.

🤦‍♂️
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 04, 2020, 10:50:56 AM
The coast guard was searching for two Kennedys lost in the chesapeake while canoeing. So whatever, folks... go out. Do shit. Who cares.

Spread the bug.

Make the health system earn its pay.

Hoard toilet paper.

Whatever.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cablebandit on April 04, 2020, 11:27:08 AM
Was Uncle Teddy anywhere close?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: jadziadax8 on April 04, 2020, 11:27:45 AM
Was Uncle Teddy anywhere close?

Did they bury him at sea?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 04, 2020, 12:58:54 PM
Growing up on Chappaquiddick I does my heart good knowing old Teddy's dead. He was a douche.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on April 05, 2020, 12:53:29 PM
And I read where they fined a paddle-boarder in Malibu. 

I understand the paddle-boarder was practicing social distancing; unless circumstances arose that required a First Responder.  Can't people think beyond their own self-interest and sacrifice a small bit of personal liberty for the greater well-being of others?

I know, makes me sound like a communist.

Actually, the lifeguards spent half an hour trying to get that guy out of the water and he ignored them. If he'd listened to them at any point in there, there wouldn't have been a ticket. They really are trying to do this without going all law enforcement. You get a ticket when your behavior crosses over into doucheland.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on April 05, 2020, 03:08:26 PM
And I read where they fined a paddle-boarder in Malibu. 

I understand the paddle-boarder was practicing social distancing; unless circumstances arose that required a First Responder.  Can't people think beyond their own self-interest and sacrifice a small bit of personal liberty for the greater well-being of others?

I know, makes me sound like a communist.

Actually, the lifeguards spent half an hour trying to get that guy out of the water and he ignored them. If he'd listened to them at any point in there, there wouldn't have been a ticket. They really are trying to do this without going all law enforcement. You get a ticket when your behavior crosses over into doucheland.

So if you don't want a ticket, don't be a dildonic douchetard? (Couldn't WAIT to use dildonic in a sentence!)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 05, 2020, 03:25:14 PM

And I read where they fined a paddle-boarder in Malibu. 

I understand the paddle-boarder was practicing social distancing; unless circumstances arose that required a First Responder.  Can't people think beyond their own self-interest and sacrifice a small bit of personal liberty for the greater well-being of others?

I know, makes me sound like a communist.

Actually, the lifeguards spent half an hour trying to get that guy out of the water and he ignored them. If he'd listened to them at any point in there, there wouldn't have been a ticket. They really are trying to do this without going all law enforcement. You get a ticket when your behavior crosses over into doucheland.

So if you don't want a ticket, don't be a dildonic douchetard? (Couldn't WAIT to use dildonic in a sentence!)




 :shahthread:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on April 05, 2020, 05:35:37 PM
Dildonic Douchetard

Great band name.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 05, 2020, 09:57:35 PM

So if you don't want a ticket, don't be a dildonic douchetard? (Couldn't WAIT to use dildonic in a sentence!)

 :inlove:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: minimac on April 06, 2020, 09:21:23 AM
Growing up on Chappaquiddick I does my heart good knowing old Teddy's dead. He was a douche.

Years ago we were at a nightspot when Douche and his party walked. He tried to pick up one of the girls (a musician) that was in our group. He told her he"could take her career places". She told him "just don't take me for a ride".  Douche and party left immediately.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 06, 2020, 09:31:03 AM
More species jumps.
No big deal.
Just a cold.
Let's restart the economy.

yay.

fuck.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tiger-bronx-zoo-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-today-2020-04-05/ (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tiger-bronx-zoo-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-today-2020-04-05/)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: radon222 on April 06, 2020, 09:59:56 AM
The coast guard was searching for two Kennedys lost in the chesapeake while canoeing.



The sad and unfortunate full story on that one.  They were doing the right thing staying at home.  The mom and kid were in the backyard kicking a ball around.  When the ball went in the water, they had the not-so-bright idea to throw the canoe in the water to go retrieve the ball.   

I had survey crews that were supposed to be working in Chesapeake Bay last week and they were shut down by strong winds and choppy water, so I have no freaking what the hell she was thinking.   :facepalm:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 06, 2020, 10:14:39 AM
Growing up on Chappaquiddick I does my heart good knowing old Teddy's dead. He was a douche.

Years ago we were at a nightspot when Douche and his party walked. He tried to pick up one of the girls (a musician) that was in our group. He told her he"could take her career places". She told him "just don't take me for a ride".  Douche and party left immediately.

We were there when he took Mary Jo swimming.

For years after that tourists would see us playing and ask how to get to "the bridge". Even at age 10 I knew enough to give them perfect directions.

To the dump.


Douche would anchor his boat like right of our beach, yes, OUR beach four the fourth of July and along with him came his douche friends all being douchey.

We used to throw cherry bombs at his boat from our little motor dingies.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Baxter on April 06, 2020, 10:44:17 AM
The coast guard was searching for two Kennedys lost in the chesapeake while canoeing.



The sad and unfortunate full story on that one.  They were doing the right thing staying at home.  The mom and kid were in the backyard kicking a ball around.  When the ball went in the water, they had the not-so-bright idea to throw the canoe in the water to go retrieve the ball.   

I had survey crews that were supposed to be working in Chesapeake Bay last week and they were shut down by strong winds and choppy water, so I have no freaking what the hell she was thinking.   :facepalm:

Perhaps it's just my impression, but it seems as if the extended Kennedy family has a much higher percentage of deaths from "misadventure" than most. Both my and my wife's extended families have their share of broken bones and crashes, etc., but we have to go back a few generations to find a death by accident as opposed to old age or medical issues.  For example, I have a cousin who broke a leg while skiing, but a Kennedy relative died while skiing.  I am curious whether this observation would be backed by actual numbers if accidental deaths were tracked by family?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 06, 2020, 02:16:28 PM
https://imgur.com/gallery/PfKYrrW
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: jimmy on April 06, 2020, 03:24:08 PM
Justin Trudeau speaks to the kids, in Lego...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBBjz16J-nU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBBjz16J-nU)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 08, 2020, 05:46:32 AM
Just popped over the road to see my elderly 86 year old neighbour to ask if she needed anything from the supermarket.

Luckily she did so I gave her my list. There’s no point in us both going really
Title: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Stripes on April 08, 2020, 09:03:08 AM
Just popped over the road to see my elderly 86 year old neighbour to ask if she needed anything from the supermarket.

Luckily she did so I gave her my list. There’s no point in us both going really

 :lol: Nice!
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: PatM on April 08, 2020, 11:22:48 AM
Just popped over the road to see my elderly 86 year old neighbour to ask if she needed anything from the supermarket.

Luckily she did so I gave her my list. There’s no point in us both going really

 :lol: Nice!

 :lol:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on April 08, 2020, 12:47:20 PM
Just popped over the road to see my elderly 86 year old neighbour to ask if she needed anything from the supermarket.

Luckily she did so I gave her my list. There’s no point in us both going really

 :rolf:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 08, 2020, 12:59:51 PM
I can’t believe the government are relying on models to forecast the pandemic, they should ask scientists instead, they’re not as pretty but they know a lot more
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: jadziadax8 on April 08, 2020, 03:33:54 PM
I can’t believe the government are relying on models to forecast the pandemic, they should ask scientists instead, they’re not as pretty but they know a lot more

Bwahahaha!
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on April 08, 2020, 06:22:44 PM
I can’t believe the government are relying on models to forecast the pandemic, they should ask scientists instead, they’re not as pretty but they know a lot more

That's not a joke on this side of the pond. Just a description.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 09, 2020, 12:50:12 PM
I can’t believe the government are relying on models to forecast the pandemic, they should ask scientists instead, they’re not as pretty but they know a lot more

That's not a joke on this side of the pond. Just a description.

And to think  "socialised medicine" was voted down until it became overpriced and useless and then got rid of what was left. Poor old USA is not well placed to cope with this. I feel for you.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Andrew on April 09, 2020, 10:15:06 PM
I can’t believe the government are relying on models to forecast the pandemic, they should ask scientists instead, they’re not as pretty but they know a lot more

That's not a joke on this side of the pond. Just a description.

And to think  "socialised medicine" was voted down until it became overpriced and useless and then got rid of what was left. Poor old USA is not well placed to cope with this. I feel for you.

OH good God, what crazy talk is that, we in the States have the greatest healthcare in the world! If anyone wants to access it all they need to do is buy a policy from a insurance company. Many policies are available from a vast pool of providers all there for the pickins. "Socialized medicine" is the devils work! I have no intention of giving my hard earned money to assist some rich folks who have never done anything for me, just so they can have healthcare at the same rate I pay. No No No We have private insurance companies that are set up to provide what the common man needs at a price that they can afford. They can set the prices and dictate treatments better than any small town doctor could ever dream of. Trust in the system, it's there to help you and show a profit to the shareholders.


Getting off the soapbox now
 :couch:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on April 10, 2020, 07:53:14 AM

Getting off the soapbox now
 :couch:

You are treading on thin ice there, Bro, because you fail to recognize the benefits of our system.

One of the clients I work for makes a drug product that is sold internationally.  All of the product is made exactly the same way at the same facility here in the USA.  The obvious advantages of domestic production - besides providing jobs and income for people like me - allows this product to to be sold at a high markup.   That pays for lots of television commercials, large bonuses for pharmacy benefit managers, dividends for insurance company shareholders (of which I am one), and not to be overlooked, a very nice motorcycle for me. !

I just don’t think you get it.   Don’t fix it if you ain’t broke, I say
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on April 13, 2020, 07:51:13 AM
Interesting post circulating on social media.  Important to keep in mind this data is not from a scientific study.  The rates of testing are not the same; the criteria for getting tested are not the same; the sampling methodology is not the same, etc.  I'd just as soon believe the data coming out of China or Swampy Bottom.  Not only that, but it was posted on the internet, so it can't possible be true.

Still interesting to contemplate.  Linky here (https://www.wave3.com/2020/03/24/graph-comparing-ky-tenn-coronavirus-responses-goes-viral/)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


"“What we’re seeing here is staying at home, avoiding public contact, and minimizing your exposure and exposing yourself to your neighbors can make a difference,” Jolly told WAVE 3 News via Facetime while on self-isolation in New York."

"Her bar graphs on a timeline showed Kentucky’s rate of growth was significantly flatter than Tennessee’s."

"The timeline also shows Kentucky Governor Beshear sometimes acted almost a week earlier than his Tennessee counterpart in shutting down public gatherings and closing schools."
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Baxter on April 13, 2020, 01:58:24 PM
So … the business news is reporting that corporations will be releasing earnings reports soon, and predicting that the stock market will likely dive again.  Now, I thought it obvious that a good many businesses would experience lousy sales back when the closure orders were put in place weeks ago, and therefore smart money people had already priced lousy first quarter earnings into the market so the market should already be there.  My question is: who among financial professionals didn't think that corporate earnings were going to drop through the floor, and why are these people still working in finance?  It's like a Northerner being surprised by winter.

Should this have been a rant?   ;)

And Captain Obvious just told me that most of the businesses that were first hit in the Great Recession will be hit hard now.  That is, any product that people can put off buying will be put off, so expensive adult toys such as motorcycles, campers, boats, will be sitting on the lots.  If you still have a job, it could be a good time to buy both investments and other stuff soon. 
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Eh2zed on April 14, 2020, 08:43:02 AM
... it could be a good time to buy both investments and other stuff soon.

BUY? Woah.
Ok then who wants to buy a really really nice BMW? ;D
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Patmo on April 14, 2020, 09:07:59 AM
Skee

The Governor of this fine (UN)Commonwealth is on TV every evening at 5 and spends the next hour going over the steps they have outlined to follow, the current numbers including tests performed, new cases, deaths, and then answers questions from the few reporters present.  He does it all mater of factly and without blowing smoke up anyone’s arse.  The other night he said something that I never thought I would ever hear a politician of his stature say...

When asked if the hardline procedures that he has imposed might hurt his chances at reelection, his response was to say that he didn’t even give it a thought and how his actions might effect his political future was the furthest thing from his mind.  He said that yes, he was hearing complaints, but he discounted them because HE was the one that had to stand up there every night and give the death numbers out, not them.   

Now I’m usually a cynic when it comes to this stuff, and I didn’t even vote for him, but he came across to me as 100% sincere.  I’ve become a fan.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on April 14, 2020, 09:31:42 AM
Have you seen the graphs that show the difference made by Kentucky's early and aggressive response vs Tennessee's slow and lackluster reaction to covid-19?

What a difference having a good governor makes...  Who'd have thought?


visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on April 14, 2020, 11:04:19 AM
Patmo

I’m sure you read the comments I posted (http://www.sport-touring.org/index.php?topic=6530.msg198383#msg198383) before the graph.  This is a difficult decision and the answer is not black and white.  There is no optimum choice. 

It is clear that social distancing reduces the number of hospitalizations and burden on health care.  But it has other negative ramifications.  And people are going to die regardless.  Those are facts we cannot change.  Iit will be at least a few years until history reveals what the best policy truly is/was.

The medical profession has been warning about the potential for a pandemic outbreak for years.  The USA, if we are as smart as we claim to be, should have and could have been better prepared.  It’s become obvious to me that our leaders didnt have a plan and are making one up as they go along. 

I’m trying to keep this all in perspective and not rush to judgement.  We are living in an epic moment.

I hope I live to see the outcome.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: jadziadax8 on April 15, 2020, 06:23:40 PM
Sprout’s stay-away summer camp just canceled for the year. He was supposed to go for three weeks this time. He’s bummed.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Andrew on April 15, 2020, 08:11:46 PM
My kids also go to a camp (boyscouts) I haven't gotten the word, but I told them that their chances are not good. Oldest is bummed (he looks forward to it all year long) youngest is sosso

They still want to go camping with mom and dad, I think we might be able to pull that off is things get a bit better in 3 months
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: bedlamite on April 15, 2020, 10:14:38 PM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Jim on April 15, 2020, 10:24:36 PM
Shaving - LOL - Yep. No shaving until life gets some normalcy (at least until my barber shop opens) - then deciding what might stay.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cablebandit on April 16, 2020, 06:04:09 AM
Looks like they cancelled all the early summer camps at PSU and online learning is through the summer as well.

I'm guessing the word on lay-offs will be here in a week or so.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on April 16, 2020, 10:01:55 AM
Quote
Professional gamblers in Nevada may now be able to collect unemployment

People who gamble for a living would not normally collect unemployment, but the statewide shutdown of casinos due to the coronavirus could change that

Published: April 16, 2020 at 10:41 a.m. ET By Weston Blasi
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: maddjack on April 16, 2020, 12:24:46 PM
They cancelled the Pittsburgh arts festival in June, looks like i won't be selling anything there this year. Hopefully the hand made fair will go on later in the year, but who is to say?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 16, 2020, 12:33:26 PM
another three weeks of lock down. in good news, the R rate-the transmission rate-is less than 1. we're past the peak of this bout.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: maddjack on April 16, 2020, 12:45:17 PM
another three weeks of lock down. in good news, the R rate-the transmission rate-is less than 1. we're past the peak of this bout.
Lets hope there isn't a large resurgence as happens sometimes with these nasty bugs
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 16, 2020, 12:55:57 PM
another three weeks of lock down. in good news, the R rate-the transmission rate-is less than 1. we're past the peak of this bout.
Lets hope there isn't a large resurgence as happens sometimes with these nasty bugs

hence, bout 1.

2 will be along shortly.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on April 16, 2020, 01:04:17 PM
Today Switzerland announced an updated timeline, to be done in three phases:

Continued "lock down" (which isn't all that serious, unless you happen to own or work at a non-essential business  :-\ ) until April 27th.

Phase 1. APRIL 27: The following services may resume:
A. Inpatient and Outpatient procedures (including physio, dentistry, medical massage)
B. Personal Services (hairdressers, massage therapists, tattoo artists, cosmeticians)
C. Hardware stores and garden centers (Obi, Bau & Hobby, Wyss, etc.)
D. Extended family and friends may attend funerals
E. Restrictions in grocery stores (all products within the store may be sold)

Phase 2. MAY 11: The following will reopen:
A. Shops and markets
B. Obligatory (primary) schools
(The Federal Council will decide on April 29)

Phase 3. JUNE 8: The following will open:
A. (Middle Schools, Vocational Schools, and Higher Education) will allow face-to-face instruction.
B. Museums, Libraries, Botanical Gardens, and the Zoo Basel
(The Federal Council will decide on May 27)


Of course, the government said that these timelines would depend on if there was any resurgence in the virus (which is to be expected, of course)  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 16, 2020, 01:22:49 PM
nothing on pubs then.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on April 16, 2020, 01:24:51 PM
Today Switzerland announced an updated timeline, to be done in three phases:

Continued "lock down" (which isn't all that serious, unless you happen to own or work at a non-essential business  :-\ ) until April 27th.

Phase 1. APRIL 27: The following services may resume:
A. Inpatient and Outpatient procedures (including physio, dentistry, medical massage)
B. Personal Services (hairdressers, massage therapists, tattoo artists, cosmeticians)
C. Hardware stores and garden centers (Obi, Bau & Hobby, Wyss, etc.)
D. Extended family and friends may attend funerals
E. Restrictions in grocery stores (all products within the store may be sold)

Phase 2. MAY 11: The following will reopen:
A. Shops and markets
B. Obligatory (primary) schools
(The Federal Council will decide on April 29)

Phase 3. JUNE 8: The following will open:
A. (Middle Schools, Vocational Schools, and Higher Education) will allow face-to-face instruction.
B. Museums, Libraries, Botanical Gardens, and the Zoo Basel
(The Federal Council will decide on May 27)


Of course, the government said that these timelines would depend on if there was any resurgence in the virus (which is to be expected, of course)  :thumbsup:

Leave it to the Swiss to actually have a plan. :lol: (I think this is good; just laughing at the stereotype)

Keep us posted.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 16, 2020, 01:26:46 PM

[/quote]

Leave it to the Swiss to actually have a plan. :lol: (I think this is good; just laughing at the stereotype)

Keep us posted.
[/quote]

The US government seems to be going for herd immunity. Some states have been lucky in their governors.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cablebandit on April 16, 2020, 01:53:17 PM
another three weeks of lock down. in good news, the R rate-the transmission rate-is less than 1. we're past the peak of this bout.
Lets hope there isn't a large resurgence as happens sometimes with these nasty bugs

Unless this WAS round two....


visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on April 16, 2020, 02:53:39 PM
nothing on pubs then.

Dan saw something about restaurants (and therefore "pubs") would be in the 3rd phase...  :redface:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 17, 2020, 03:08:53 AM
Interesting times indeed.

https://abc7chicago.com/family/ny-mom-meets-newborn-10-days-after-recovering-from-covid-19-related-coma/6107561/
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on April 17, 2020, 04:25:13 AM
Of course, the government said that these timelines would depend on if there was any resurgence in the virus (which is to be expected, of course)  :thumbsup:

We shall see.  This is an engineered virus.  Genes spliced in from HIV is why it readily infects humans.  I’ve been waiting to hear more on this, but there are other HIV gene sequences, and the concern is that it lets the virus “hide” in the immune system and emerge later.  Now, whether that’s what lets it take 14+ days to appear (yet subject is contagious) or if it’s why people recovering, supposedly with immunity, are coming down with a second round of the disease (virus emerges after recovery) it still unknown.  There is no question someone was making this into a weapon.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 17, 2020, 04:48:42 AM
it's not a weapon. It is not linked to 5G.

it has just jumped species, same as SARS 1. no point looking for the most convoluted explanation. Occam's razor and all that.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 17, 2020, 04:56:34 AM
:popcorn:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 17, 2020, 08:08:46 AM
And there are (apparently, depending on source, blah, blah, blah) a lot of reinfections, so the viral immunity is very finite, or the mutations are many and subtle.

Which is *always*, 100% a huge worry with novel species jumping viruses.

Like I got shut down on when I brought it up like 6 weeks ago or something.

So... wheeeeeeeee.

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on April 17, 2020, 08:34:04 AM
it's not a weapon. It is not linked to 5G.

it has just jumped species, same as SARS 1. no point looking for the most convoluted explanation. Occam's razor and all that.

Hate to tell you, but virologists studying it already identified at least two gene sequences that are 100% copies of HIV genetic code.  Odds of that happening by any form of mutation?  Virtually zero.  It's a bioweapon.  It didn't come from bats in a wet market.  No bats were sold at the wet market.  This has already been established.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 17, 2020, 09:05:05 AM
This has already been established

... theorized and talked about by a fringe minority, but not proven, nor has any proof been released for peer review (since the last time I checked).

Also, as bio-weapons go, this is perhaps the biggest flop in the known universe because
1) while it's deadly as fuck compared to many other "just a flu" things, it's nowhere near deadly enough to guarantee success as a weapon...
2) the chinese government doesn't do half measures when it comes to systematic take-overs, so we're all going to die of brain explosions in 10 years after we've all forgotten about 'that really bad flu that year'...
3) the chinese government, reluctantly or not, released knowledge of it and why would they if it was a weapon...?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on April 17, 2020, 09:13:48 AM
Of course, the government said that these timelines would depend on if there was any resurgence in the virus (which is to be expected, of course)  :thumbsup:

We shall see.  This is an engineered virus.  Genes spliced in from HIV is why it readily infects humans.  I’ve been waiting to hear more on this, but there are other HIV gene sequences, and the concern is that it lets the virus “hide” in the immune system and emerge later.  Now, whether that’s what lets it take 14+ days to appear (yet subject is contagious) or if it’s why people recovering, supposedly with immunity, are coming down with a second round of the disease (virus emerges after recovery) it still unknown.  There is no question someone was making this into a weapon.

 :rolleyes:   :tinfoil:

it's not a weapon. It is not linked to 5G.

it has just jumped species, same as SARS 1. no point looking for the most convoluted explanation. Occam's razor and all that.

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: radon222 on April 17, 2020, 10:04:28 AM
I think at this point its pretty well agreed that it was NOT an engineered in the lab virus.
https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2020-04-16/esper-coronavirus-was-natural-not-engineered-according-to-majority-of-assessments (https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2020-04-16/esper-coronavirus-was-natural-not-engineered-according-to-majority-of-assessments)


The only question is whether the jump happened in the wet market, or was the Chinese Govt' isolating and studying the virus at the Wuhan Lab and there was an accidental breach of safety protocols.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 17, 2020, 10:11:09 AM
If considering two arguments, one being a complex conspiracy theory and the other old fashioned human incompetence, choose the incompetence argument every time.

Species jump from bats (whose immune systems evolve incredibly rapidly and are in an arms race with viruses, so viruses mutate in bat populations very fast) to another, as yet unknown (but possibly a pangolin) species.

Chinese sell and buy wild animals in wet markets (so called because they cool the food by chucking water over it-nothing to do with fish) and voila, a disaster waiting to happen.

Same goes for African "bush meat".
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 17, 2020, 10:36:19 AM
I think at this point its pretty well agreed that it was NOT an engineered in the lab virus.
https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2020-04-16/esper-coronavirus-was-natural-not-engineered-according-to-majority-of-assessments (https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2020-04-16/esper-coronavirus-was-natural-not-engineered-according-to-majority-of-assessments)


The only question is whether the jump happened in the wet market, or was the Chinese Govt' isolating and studying the virus at the Wuhan Lab and there was an accidental breach of safety protocols.

*** DING DING DING ***

If considering two arguments, one being a complex conspiracy theory and the other old fashioned human incompetence, choose the incompetence argument every time.

Species jump from bats (whose immune systems evolve incredibly rapidly and are in an arms race with viruses, so viruses mutate in bat populations very fast) to another, as yet unknown (but possibly a pangolin) species.

Chinese sell and buy wild animals in wet markets (so called because they cool the food by chucking water over it-nothing to do with fish) and voila, a disaster waiting to happen.

Same goes for African "bush meat".

*** DING DING DING ***
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on April 17, 2020, 10:53:15 AM
Unless someone provides the link to the scientific paper demonstrating identity with HIV sequences, I'm in the bat camp or incompetence camp. Please note... we have no data for either one of those scenarios either; I'm just playing the probabilities as well.

All is, in fact, speculation.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on April 17, 2020, 12:01:29 PM
Unless someone provides the link to the scientific paper demonstrating identity with HIV sequences, I'm in the bat camp or incompetence camp.

https://youtu.be/Gdd7dtDaYmM

Hour long documentary.  The evidence is apparent.  The conclusions are right there.  China believes in victory at any cost.  Yes, this is a poor weaponized virus, but perhaps it’s because it’s not the finished product.  I don’t doubt this was an accidental containment breach.

One of the reasons bio weapon research is banned is because of the damage that could be done just from an accidental release.  The bats in the wet market are proven false.  The gene sequence evidence is solid. 
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on April 17, 2020, 12:06:02 PM
Unless someone provides the link to the scientific paper demonstrating identity with HIV sequences, I'm in the bat camp or incompetence camp.

https://youtu.be/Gdd7dtDaYmM

Hour long documentary.  The evidence is apparent.  The conclusions are right there.  China believes in victory at any cost.  Yes, this is a poor weaponized virus, but perhaps it’s because it’s not the finished product.  I don’t doubt this was an accidental containment breach.

One of the reasons bio weapon research is banned is because of the damage that could be done just from an accidental release.  The bats in the wet market are proven false.  The gene sequence evidence is solid.

A YouTube video is not a peer-reviewed, vetted scientific paper. Do a search on PubMed to find the original paper(s).
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 17, 2020, 12:39:39 PM
Unless someone provides the link to the scientific paper demonstrating identity with HIV sequences, I'm in the bat camp or incompetence camp.

https://youtu.be/Gdd7dtDaYmM

Hour long documentary.  The evidence is apparent.  The conclusions are right there.  China believes in victory at any cost.  Yes, this is a poor weaponized virus, but perhaps it’s because it’s not the finished product.  I don’t doubt this was an accidental containment breach.

One of the reasons bio weapon research is banned is because of the damage that could be done just from an accidental release.  The bats in the wet market are proven false.  The gene sequence evidence is solid.

A YouTube video is not a peer-reviewed, vetted scientific paper. Do a search on PubMed to find the original paper(s).

too true. the other clue the documentary might not be sound is----it's on social media!
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on April 17, 2020, 01:01:11 PM
Unless someone provides the link to the scientific paper demonstrating identity with HIV sequences, I'm in the bat camp or incompetence camp.

https://youtu.be/Gdd7dtDaYmM

Hour long documentary.  The evidence is apparent.  The conclusions are right there.  China believes in victory at any cost.  Yes, this is a poor weaponized virus, but perhaps it’s because it’s not the finished product.  I don’t doubt this was an accidental containment breach.

One of the reasons bio weapon research is banned is because of the damage that could be done just from an accidental release.  The bats in the wet market are proven false.  The gene sequence evidence is solid.

A YouTube video is not a peer-reviewed, vetted scientific paper. Do a search on PubMed to find the original paper(s).

An hour long? Then it MUST be true!  ;D


Seriously, I have listened to someone on youtube spouting all of the various "proof" that they have. None of it made it through our BS detector....
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Baxter on April 17, 2020, 01:04:16 PM
Unless someone provides the link to the scientific paper demonstrating identity with HIV sequences, I'm in the bat camp or incompetence camp.

https://youtu.be/Gdd7dtDaYmM

Hour long documentary.  The evidence is apparent.  The conclusions are right there.  China believes in victory at any cost.  Yes, this is a poor weaponized virus, but perhaps it’s because it’s not the finished product.  I don’t doubt this was an accidental containment breach.

One of the reasons bio weapon research is banned is because of the damage that could be done just from an accidental release.  The bats in the wet market are proven false.  The gene sequence evidence is solid.

A YouTube video is not a peer-reviewed, vetted scientific paper. Do a search on PubMed to find the original paper(s).

too true. the other clue the documentary might not be sound is----it's on social media!

I think it's more likely than not that the producers of that video are Russian trolls.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Baxter on April 17, 2020, 01:05:32 PM
I think at this point its pretty well agreed that it was NOT an engineered in the lab virus.
https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2020-04-16/esper-coronavirus-was-natural-not-engineered-according-to-majority-of-assessments (https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2020-04-16/esper-coronavirus-was-natural-not-engineered-according-to-majority-of-assessments)


The only question is whether the jump happened in the wet market, or was the Chinese Govt' isolating and studying the virus at the Wuhan Lab and there was an accidental breach of safety protocols.

*** DING DING DING ***

If considering two arguments, one being a complex conspiracy theory and the other old fashioned human incompetence, choose the incompetence argument every time.

Species jump from bats (whose immune systems evolve incredibly rapidly and are in an arms race with viruses, so viruses mutate in bat populations very fast) to another, as yet unknown (but possibly a pangolin) species.

Chinese sell and buy wild animals in wet markets (so called because they cool the food by chucking water over it-nothing to do with fish) and voila, a disaster waiting to happen.

Same goes for African "bush meat".

*** DING DING DING ***

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on April 17, 2020, 01:33:23 PM
Full disclosure: I have a Ph.D. in biochemistry and performed molecular genetic studies back in the dark ages of the 80s and 90s. I have published papers. I have poured my own sequencing gels and used radioactivity (!). I have aligned and compared sequences between different organisms.

None of that makes me wicked smaht, but it does make me smahter than your average bear. ;)

PS I know how science is supposed to be performed. Scientists disagree all the time. Well-designed, repeatable experiments are how you prove you're right. (Remember cold fusion?) Hint: Any time you hear "the science has been settled", it's either been a long time or the science has been co-opted.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 17, 2020, 03:00:51 PM
Full disclosure: I have a Ph.D. in biochemistry and performed molecular genetic studies back in the dark ages of the 80s and 90s. I have published papers. I have poured my own sequencing gels and used radioactivity (!). I have aligned and compared sequences between different organisms.

None of that makes me wicked smaht, but it does make me smahter than your average bear. ;)

PS I know how science is supposed to be performed. Scientists disagree all the time. Well-designed, repeatable experiments are how you prove you're right. (Remember cold fusion?) Hint: Any time you hear "the science has been settled", it's either been a long time or the science has been co-opted.

thank you doctor.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: PatM on April 17, 2020, 03:30:51 PM
Full disclosure: I have a Ph.D. in biochemistry and performed molecular genetic studies back in the dark ages of the 80s and 90s. I have published papers. I have poured my own sequencing gels and used radioactivity (!). I have aligned and compared sequences between different organisms.

None of that makes me wicked smaht, but it does make me smahter than your average bear. ;)

PS I know how science is supposed to be performed. Scientists disagree all the time. Well-designed, repeatable experiments are how you prove you're right. (Remember cold fusion?) Hint: Any time you hear "the science has been settled", it's either been a long time or the science has been co-opted.

thank you doctor.

I tend to agree with the doctor. If there is incompetence, it's in the CYA actions of the local and or national officials that tried to put a lid on it.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: jadziadax8 on April 17, 2020, 07:25:20 PM
Full disclosure: I have a Ph.D. in biochemistry and performed molecular genetic studies back in the dark ages of the 80s and 90s. I have published papers. I have poured my own sequencing gels and used radioactivity (!). I have aligned and compared sequences between different organisms.

None of that makes me wicked smaht, but it does make me smahter than your average bear. ;)

PS I know how science is supposed to be performed. Scientists disagree all the time. Well-designed, repeatable experiments are how you prove you're right. (Remember cold fusion?) Hint: Any time you hear "the science has been settled", it's either been a long time or the science has been co-opted.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on April 18, 2020, 12:57:20 AM
Full disclosure: I have a Ph.D. in biochemistry and performed molecular genetic studies back in the dark ages of the 80s and 90s. I have published papers. I have poured my own sequencing gels and used radioactivity (!). I have aligned and compared sequences between different organisms.

None of that makes me wicked smaht, but it does make me smahter than your average bear. ;)

I share the couch with a smhart bear - and his Ph.D. is being put to use daily here at work, so he is fully up-do-date on how the science should work, and laughs with derision / frustration when he heres some of these theories come out of the "news".

I have full confidence in the scientists in my life to be able to spot the BS that some people (youtube and politicians alike) try to feed us.   8)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 18, 2020, 01:23:50 AM
Here's a link to a reliable source, with brief analyses of some of the various corona virus conspiracy theories.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52310194 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52310194)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on April 18, 2020, 04:52:23 AM
Here's a link to a reliable source, with brief analyses of some of the various corona virus conspiracy theories.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52310194 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52310194)

Okay, so, BBC is credible?  Let’s look at the relevant portion of the story....

Apologies for the length....

Quote
The virus wasn't created in a lab

A video published by the Epoch Times, that contains claims that the coronavirus was created in a laboratory, has been marked false on Facebook where it has been watched almost 70 million times.

FACEBOOK DOES NOT FACT CHECK.  Facebook has attacked many posts as “fake news” only to backpedal when the MSM starts reporting the exact same thing.  They will mark stuff as “fake news” even when the MSM is the cited source of the material.  What Facebook, YouTube and others do is have people using their SUBJECTIVE opinion to mark items as fake without doing any research or checking any of the cited sources first.

Quote
The opening feels like a slick and dramatic Netflix documentary - there's a flash and crack of a lightning bolt followed by ominous music.

The hour-long video includes a theory about a lab in Wuhan creating the virus and leaking it, due to poor security.

The BBC's science editor, Paul Rincon, says "there's currently no evidence that any research institute in Wuhan was the source of Sars-CoV-2" (which causes Covid-19).

Scientific analysis of the evidence shows the virus came from animals, and was not man-made.

Where is the science editor’s sources.  What are HIS credentials?  Being an “editor” does not confer any special knowledge of the subject matter covered. 

Quote
A peer-reviewed study in March found no evidence the coronavirus had been engineered, stating that "it is improbable that SARS-CoV-2 emerged through laboratory manipulation."

“A” (singular) study....were there others?  Did they agree?  Always watch the words people choose to use.  One study alone doesn’t necessarily prove or disprove something. 

Quote
The video also refers to a study from Indian researchers that claimed to find four new sequences had been inserted into the new coronavirus, which were also present in HIV, to suggest the virus is man-made.
But that paper, never peer-reviewed, was withdrawn by its authors. And the genetic information that had matched is common in many other organisms.

Again, lack of peer review doesn’t prove or disprove something.

Quote
"Those sequences are so short that they match with many different organisms, not just HIV. It doesn't mean they're related," says Dr Jeremy Rossman, a virologist at the University of Kent.

Again, look at the wording.  HIV is not an organism...it is a virus.  So, this statement could mean the gene sequence is common in many organisms affected by HIV.  The alleged sequences in the documentary take a deadlier flu virus and gives it the ability to enter human cells.  The gene sequences are 100% matches for the HIV virus...something that is highly improbable to impossible if it resulted from crossing species naturally.

Quote
Epoch Times, based in New York City, was started by Chinese-Americans affiliated with a religious group called Falun Gong.

The site spent heavily on pro-Donald Trump Facebook adverts last year, reported NBC News.
But in August Facebook banned it from taking out more ads for violating its policies.

Okay, they might as well have said “the outlawed group called Falun Gong.”  It’s what they are implying as China persecutes any non-state-approved religion.  All the MSM spent their money backing Hillary Clinton, and again, they cite a source that doesn’t fact check before declaring something as true or false.

Likewise, criticizing an organization is not refutation.  Did he ask the organization to copy them of their source citations?  Did he follow them to verify their veracity?  Not that this story indicates.  It’s a critique of a VIDEO with some generalized refutations.  We’ve seen this nonsense when people criticize Glenn Beck for positions he’s taken that later are proven true.  When he publishes a book on a topic, I normally includes a huge section detailing all of his sources.  His critics never dispute his sources...they dispute his presentation.

MY POINT IN ALL OF THIS is be careful who you think is a trusted source.  The MSM won’t report or criticize China because of the threat of loss of ad revenue or that China holds an ownership interest is many companies that could retaliate against the media for publishing unfavorable news stories.

The BBC is basically the UK’s version of MSNBC and CNN...discredited, politically-driven media reporting.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 18, 2020, 04:59:09 AM
I truly believe that we are at a time where there is NO trustworthy source of information.

Everything is about $$$.

The truth belongs to whoever writes the largest check.

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 18, 2020, 05:32:50 AM
I truly believe that we are at a time where there is NO trustworthy source of information.

Everything is about $$$.

The truth belongs to whoever writes the largest check.

This is the truest thing here.



Mike, you can find any conspiracy anywhere if you look hard enough. The overwhelmingly large body of information continues to suggest this is a species jump; let that be scary enough, because it is.

Even if some time in the future we learn that it's 100% engineered - which it really, truly, most likely is not - that doesn't help curtail the spread of it by whackjobs who somehow think they're above it all. I watched a video this morning of people being interviewed leaving a church, saying they were protected because they were "covered in the blood of christ" and "even though I see both sides (protip: there aren't any fucking sides) I'm protected through my faith and if others don't have faith, they don't have the lord's protection."

You want to fear something? Fear that irrational bullshit.

There's enough scary shit in the world, in the here and now, in the basest explanations of how we're all just trying to get through a day, without perpetuating a bunch of fear and conspiracy-based unproven tripe.

Stop it.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: st2sam on April 18, 2020, 06:17:42 AM
I truly believe that we are at a time where there is NO trustworthy source of information.

Everything is about $$$.

The truth belongs to whoever writes the largest check.

Geeze boss, your smarter than you look.  :bigsmile:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on April 18, 2020, 06:25:06 AM
...you can find any conspiracy anywhere if you look hard enough. The overwhelmingly large body of information continues to suggest this is a species jump; let that be scary enough, because it is.

"QFT", as they say.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Vulcanbill on April 18, 2020, 06:59:55 AM
I truly believe that we are at a time where there is NO trustworthy source of information.

Everything is about $$$.

The truth belongs to whoever writes the largest check.

This is the truest thing here.



Mike, you can find any conspiracy anywhere if you look hard enough. The overwhelmingly large body of information continues to suggest this is a species jump; let that be scary enough, because it is.

Even if some time in the future we learn that it's 100% engineered - which it really, truly, most likely is not - that doesn't help curtail the spread of it by whackjobs who somehow think they're above it all. I watched a video this morning of people being interviewed leaving a church, saying they were protected because they were "covered in the blood of christ" and "even though I see both sides (protip: there aren't any fucking sides) I'm protected through my faith and if others don't have faith, they don't have the lord's protection."

You want to fear something? Fear that irrational bullshit.

There's enough scary shit in the world, in the here and now, in the basest explanations of how we're all just trying to get through a day, without perpetuating a bunch of fear and conspiracy-based unproven tripe.

Stop it.

Using those quotes to paint Christianity would be like using you as the poster child for being divorced.  The Uber extreme fringe whackjobs in the group do not represent the whole.  It's cute how you use the exact same technique of picking out random examples to try to discredit his random examples of trying to prove a point.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Flyer on April 18, 2020, 07:32:50 AM
Lightenupwillyazz?
https://youtu.be/sWjgjxvBJpo
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 18, 2020, 08:06:08 AM
I truly believe that we are at a time where there is NO trustworthy source of information.

Everything is about $$$.

The truth belongs to whoever writes the largest check.

Geeze boss, your smarter than you look.  :bigsmile:

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on April 18, 2020, 09:26:46 AM
I think at this point its pretty well agreed that it was NOT an engineered in the lab virus.
https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2020-04-16/esper-coronavirus-was-natural-not-engineered-according-to-majority-of-assessments (https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2020-04-16/esper-coronavirus-was-natural-not-engineered-according-to-majority-of-assessments)


The only question is whether the jump happened in the wet market, or was the Chinese Govt' isolating and studying the virus at the Wuhan Lab and there was an accidental breach of safety protocols.

*** DING DING DING ***

If considering two arguments, one being a complex conspiracy theory and the other old fashioned human incompetence, choose the incompetence argument every time.

Species jump from bats (whose immune systems evolve incredibly rapidly and are in an arms race with viruses, so viruses mutate in bat populations very fast) to another, as yet unknown (but possibly a pangolin) species.

Chinese sell and buy wild animals in wet markets (so called because they cool the food by chucking water over it-nothing to do with fish) and voila, a disaster waiting to happen.

Same goes for African "bush meat".

*** DING DING DING ***

Occam’s razor

It’s quite possible this was a benign laboratory experiment that escaped.   There are little to no controls on genetic experimentation.  Heck, they let my cousin splice yeast genes into other cells to control HDL and LDL ratios - he has his post doctorate and stuff - but this is a someone who didn’t see a problem riding an off-road dirt bike on the NJ Parkway. 

Now think about this; maybe up to half of our drug products come from China. 

Only a matter of time until there is a major worldwide disaster.  Wait, is this it?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on April 18, 2020, 09:48:01 AM
I truly believe that we are at a time where there is NO trustworthy source of information.

Everything is about $$$.

The truth belongs to whoever writes the largest check.

This is the truest thing here.

Mike, you can find any conspiracy anywhere if you look hard enough. The overwhelmingly large body of information continues to suggest this is a species jump; let that be scary enough, because it is.

....

There's enough scary shit in the world, in the here and now, in the basest explanations of how we're all just trying to get through a day, without perpetuating a bunch of fear and conspiracy-based unproven tripe.

Stop it.

Well, Cookie really nails it down.  8)

Chornbe, I’m not going to fringe sources for information.  I knew 9/11 was coming before it happened because the data was there and the masses were ignoring it.  Past pandemic scares I knew were BS because the data didn’t back the claims.  This time, I saw the data that this was a true pandemic, and the usual fear porn peddlers were silent...that only made it more alarming.

The CCP has been at war with the west for decades.  They have an open agenda to overthrow the USA and be the dominant global power by 2025.  They steal our IP.  They use most every dime we spend in Chinese-made goods to fuel their war machine.  They gained access to US nuclear science and technology to jump forward their nuclear weapons program (thank you President Clinton).  They not so subtly threatened us over intervening in their plans for Taiwan (an independent nation) by saying we wouldn’t sacrifice L.A. for Taiwan.  They have consistently and repeatedly conducted cyber warfare attacks on the military and civilian data networks of other nations...the USA being a favorite target.  NONE OF THIS IS A SECRET.

Now, thanks to political dumb assary (or treason), they were able to obtain a Level 4 biological research laboratory.  Oh, they’re studying viruses and want to make vaccines?  Sorry, their past history and open motives make me question that claim most strongly. 

We should have a HEALTHY fear of China.  The CCP is not kind or benevolent.  Any dissidents end up in prison, work camps, or just killed.  They don’t have any respect for non-Asian races nor believe in letting the people be free or have equality.  Their motives are not pure, and even if this pandemic was 100% naturally occurring and an accidental release, the CCP lied about it, the CCP destroyed all lab research and cleansed the site of all genetic evidence (which could help find a vaccine), the CCP punished people who tried to warn the world at large of the outbreak, and the CCP not only confiscated paid for PPE gear en route to other nations, they instructed Chinese nationals around the world to buy all the PPE they could get and ship it to China on the down low.  Add in that they’ve shipped to other nations defective PPE and tainted/defective testing kits, and there is no question as to the criminality of the CCP’s actions.

So, what comes next?  Most nations want to sue China for the damage in lost lives and economic impact for utterly failing to do as agreed by international treaty and sound the alarm when this started.  Will that (if successful) be enough?  We should be treating the CCP’s ambition to have nuclear weapons the same as we see it for Iran.  Yes, Iran is more trigger happy, but once the CCP can threaten mutual assured destruction on the USA (their only real barrier to global dominance) they WILL start a campaign to seize power throughout Asia and the South Pacific.  The naive belief that free trade will transform China to a free society is playing right into their plans.  The politicians have their own agenda, and it doesn’t align with what intelligence experts have been saying regarding the CCP for several presidential administrations.

My fear is that when this is over, we all go back to “business as usual” when dealing with China.. Will the world (if not at least the USA) wake up and see the CCP as the threat they pose to the human race if allowed to continue as they’ve done so far?

The wars of the 21st century are going to be ideological more than military. 

We thought we beat Communism when the Berlin Wall came down.  WE DID NOT.  After the fall, practically all of Europe embraced socialism in practice, and most freedoms once enjoyed are rapidly being eliminated in favor of the new ideology taking root.  The citizens who are 60+ remember how it was and see what’s happening.  The citizens under 30 are largely oblivious.

We think we’re winning the “war on terror.”  We’ve made huge strides, but so long as the ideological foundation exists, it will always be a threat.  When people hurl “islamophobia” when we combat these ideologies, it just shows how ingrained the enemy is within our borders.  You can believe what you want, but when your beliefs encourage the subjugation or death of those who don’t share your beliefs, that needs to be  seen for the threat it poses to a free and open society.

So, now, we have the CCP threat and a pandemic that got loose because they were incompetent (or evil) enough to allow it to get out and spread.  Will the world remember this and make the CCP a political pariah until the Chinese people replace it with a more free and open system?  Will the world “take out” the CCP for their crimes against humanity (and yes, their failure to alert the world is a crime...not just a tort)? 

Or, will we go back to business as usual as those in the know wait for the day...

...the CCP perfects a biological weapon and has the only source of a vaccine on the planet? 
...the CCP can crash the US economy and start seizing territory throughout Asia?
...the CCP can successfully launch 3 to 4 nuclear devices over the USA and use an EMP blast to send us to the dark ages?

If people don’t see the evil in China’s intentions after this, there is no hope for the free world.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 18, 2020, 10:04:37 AM
the CCP is not benign. Too right. But I doubt it is about to start WW3.  It has a healthy sense of self-preservation and is very worried about its reputation. It stays in power largely on bluff.

European socialism is nowhere near the shape of any post-Marxist/ Leninist countries (which were mainly Stalinist or neo-Stalinist dictatorships, or one party dictatorships). Most European economies are a mix of capitalism and socialism and are democracies, so that people are protected and one system helps the other out. It is not something to be scared of and doesn't reduce freedom.

I think I'm going to regret posting this.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on April 18, 2020, 10:09:03 AM

I think I'm going to regret posting this.

Not as much as you regret missing happy hour :thumbsup:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 18, 2020, 10:12:52 AM

I think I'm going to regret posting this.

Not as much as you regret missing happy hour :thumbsup:

I miss an hour at the pub on a Friday and Saturday. No happy hour, sadly.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on April 18, 2020, 10:51:26 AM
the CCP is not benign. Too right. But I doubt it is about to start WW3.  It has a healthy sense of self-preservation and is very worried about its reputation. It stays in power largely on bluff.

European socialism is nowhere near the shape of any post-Marxist/ Leninist countries (which were mainly Stalinist or neo-Stalinist dictatorships, or one party dictatorships). Most European economies are a mix of capitalism and socialism and are democracies, so that people are protected and one system helps the other out. It is not something to be scared of and doesn't reduce freedom.

I think I'm going to regret posting this.

Don’t regret it.  It was intelligent and well-composed.

I’d like to think that perhaps the CCP will learn from this and reform, but I don’t put a lot of confidence in that outcome at this point.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Vulcanbill on April 18, 2020, 03:49:11 PM
Congrats on making it to #3 on the list, Cookie. Mass is currently at 34,402 cases. 148,744 tested.  Deaths, 1404.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 18, 2020, 03:59:01 PM
Is that a lot?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 18, 2020, 04:01:16 PM
the CCP is not benign. Too right. But I doubt it is about to start WW3.  It has a healthy sense of self-preservation and is very worried about its reputation. It stays in power largely on bluff.

European socialism is nowhere near the shape of any post-Marxist/ Leninist countries (which were mainly Stalinist or neo-Stalinist dictatorships, or one party dictatorships). Most European economies are a mix of capitalism and socialism and are democracies, so that people are protected and one system helps the other out. It is not something to be scared of and doesn't reduce freedom.

I think I'm going to regret posting this.



Don’t regret it.  It was intelligent and well-composed.

I’d like to think that perhaps the CCP will learn from this and reform, but I don’t put a lot of confidence in that outcome at this point.

Remember Chinese culture is all about "Face". That is, reputation. You can seriously piss off you host by using usual Western values. It applies to their government as well.

A weakness and a strength. Just like us, in other ways.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 18, 2020, 04:01:39 PM
Is that a lot?

Are you dead yet?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 18, 2020, 04:03:59 PM
I'm not sure
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Vulcanbill on April 18, 2020, 04:14:09 PM
https://images.app.goo.gl/zAw4ujssra9kCSYh9  Somebody make this show up, will ya.  I haz the dumb.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 18, 2020, 04:24:21 PM
I'm not sure

Given that the source of the information about whether you are dead or not is you and you have failed to produce a peer reviewed paper.

Sorry, got lost at that point.

You may have been eaten by evil Chinese eels though.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: garry on April 18, 2020, 05:21:35 PM
For Vulcanbill...

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on April 18, 2020, 06:14:40 PM
Completely sold out on Amazon

For Vulcanbill...

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 18, 2020, 08:24:13 PM
.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Vulcanbill on April 18, 2020, 09:10:13 PM
Thanks. These mobile devices are my kryptonite.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 19, 2020, 01:09:46 AM
anybody know anything about the Folding Home project?

https://foldingathome.org/start-folding/
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 19, 2020, 01:37:54 AM
Australia. 3 deaths per million

New Zealand. 2 deaths per million

Britain. 228 deaths per million

118 deaths per million in the US

worldwide stats here: https://www.coronavirus.video/country-stats.php (https://www.coronavirus.video/country-stats.php)

Pictorial infection rates etc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic_by_country_and_territory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic_by_country_and_territory)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 19, 2020, 07:33:49 AM
the CCP is not benign. Too right. But I doubt it is about to start WW3.  It has a healthy sense of self-preservation and is very worried about its reputation. It stays in power largely on bluff.

European socialism is nowhere near the shape of any post-Marxist/ Leninist countries (which were mainly Stalinist or neo-Stalinist dictatorships, or one party dictatorships). Most European economies are a mix of capitalism and socialism and are democracies, so that people are protected and one system helps the other out. It is not something to be scared of and doesn't reduce freedom.

I think I'm going to regret posting this.

You can't use the word socialism in the United States of partial socialist-already-right-under-everyone's-noses-America and fact in the same place and time. You just can't.

You're probably going to be told by a whole bunch of Americans what socialism really is and boy howdy when they're done, won't you just feel silly.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: radon222 on April 19, 2020, 07:36:19 AM
My boy Vic knows how to lay down a good rant.   

https://youtu.be/GLcNStHTDjM

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 19, 2020, 07:40:07 AM
If people don’t see the evil in China’s intentions after this, there is no hope for the free world.

The fact that the current Chinese government exists at all and operates under their current model is the evil... the evil that we saw was in a nice, warm, soft bed with cheap loans and cheap manufacturing, and holy crap we couldn't wait to get in it.

The fact that they own a majority of the debt in the usa and suck down our interest payments like a mother's teat is evil of our own doing.

The fact they can put a stranglehold on the West by simply saying "nope, we're closing that factory" is the evil of our own doing.

Dude, China is a threat because we unbuckled our pants and say "hey boys..." while pulling a Marilyn Monroe-esque slow walk around the bed rubbing our own nipples to get that sweet, cheap money and low cost manufacturing.

China would be completely idiotic to attack us with nukes or bio weapons when they have everything they already wanted from us; financial and material reliance, and full on supplication of responsibility for those.

If there's a thing this presidency could ever be lauded for it, it's speaking pretty clear and plain about China (while bending over for Russia, but that's another story).

Sheesh.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on April 19, 2020, 09:06:43 AM
I just thought I'd pop in here to take a peek.  This thread appears to be pretty much on the rails again.  Interesting.

I think China is going to wind up getting screwed by the world after this thing.  Like Chornbe mentioned, we have allowed China to do to us what we have- and I think that will change world-wide, which is going to really hurt China- their response will be interesting.

Full disclosure: I have a Ph.D. in biochemistry and performed molecular genetic studies back in the dark ages of the 80s and 90s. I have published papers. I have poured my own sequencing gels and used radioactivity (!). I have aligned and compared sequences between different organisms.

None of that makes me wicked smaht, but it does make me smahter than your average bear. ;)

PS I know how science is supposed to be performed. Scientists disagree all the time. Well-designed, repeatable experiments are how you prove you're right. (Remember cold fusion?) Hint: Any time you hear "the science has been settled", it's either been a long time or the science has been co-opted.

 :inlove:

I truly believe that we are at a time where there is NO trustworthy source of information.

Everything is about $$$.

The truth belongs to whoever writes the largest check.

 :inlove:

That second heart face seems more awkward somehow...

I just read a very interesting piece from Hillsdale college's Imprimis (https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/thoughts-current-crisis/).  There is obviously come political content there, but the thing that really struck me was that we really can't solely trust the scientsists with what is best for our country (or world), nor can we trust the economists with what is best for our country (or world).

What we really need is to find the balance between them.  A scientists says people need to stop going to the grocery store (so we starve), an economist says we need to re-open everything ASAP (so it spreads).

The path is somewhere between there, and should be decided by someone in the middle.  No matter where you fall in support or lack thereof in our various governor's efforts to do these things, I'd argue they are some of the better people for the job.

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on April 19, 2020, 01:42:00 PM
What we really need is to find the balance between them.  A scientists says people need to stop going to the grocery store (so we starve), an economist says we need to re-open everything ASAP (so it spreads).

The path is somewhere between there, and should be decided by someone in the middle.  No matter where you fall in support or lack thereof in our various governor's efforts to do these things, I'd argue they are some of the better people for the job.

Hopefully wiser minds will prevail and prudent decisions will be made.  The governors have a tough job to do.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: st2sam on April 19, 2020, 02:47:39 PM
Who said, "China will bury us"? Was it a president?

At any rate, at the rate we're going, it'll be sooner than later. :(
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Flyer on April 19, 2020, 03:08:53 PM
Is it really impossible to all come together to confront this plague?
Then sort out what's left.
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 19, 2020, 03:24:15 PM
Is it really impossible to all come together to confront this plague?
Then sort out what's left.
 :popcorn:

with people out on the streets in some parts of the world, protesting against the only measures that will keep us all-not just them-safe, it somehow seems unlikely.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on April 19, 2020, 03:51:30 PM
Is it really impossible to all come together to confront this plague?
Then sort out what's left.
 :popcorn:

with people out on the streets in some parts of the world, protesting against the only measures that will keep us all-not just them-safe, it somehow seems unlikely.

We'll still be able to do the "sort out what's left" part.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on April 19, 2020, 05:55:41 PM
Is it really impossible to all come together to confront this plague?
Then sort out what's left.
 :popcorn:

with people out on the streets in some parts of the world, protesting against the only measures that will keep us all-not just them-safe, it somehow seems unlikely.

Be aware that in Michigan everything was fine until our governor tightened restrictions a second time, tighter than any other state- and many of them just don't make sense.  Here at least that's what most of them were protesting.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Flyer on April 20, 2020, 06:31:47 AM
Here at least that's what most of them were protesting.
Don’t lock ‘em down,
LOCK’EM UP!
 :nuts:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on April 20, 2020, 07:14:40 AM
Because of someone's questioning of "why did we sweep everything under under the rug just because of this virus?", I was looking for some numbers. I found this article to be quite telling - and it even has an easy-to-read graph for those who prefer just to look at the pictures.

One chart shows how many Americans are dying from the coronavirus each week compared with other common causes (https://www.businessinsider.com/chart-us-weekly-coronavirus-deaths-compared-heart-disease-cancer-flu-2020-4?r=US&IR=T#covid-19-is-now-killing-more-americans-weekly-than-heart-disease-or-cancer-did-on-average-per-week-in-2018-1)


Anyway, for any of you who need "a source!" I thought it might be of interest. And those of you who cry "conspiracy!" well, do with it what you will.   :tinfoil:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 20, 2020, 07:20:32 AM
I'd love to but I turn Ad-Blocker off for no one.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on April 20, 2020, 07:22:17 AM
I'd love to but I turn Ad-Blocker off for no one.

I wasn't asked to turn off my ad-blocker. Unless... maybe I did for this site a while ago and forgot? I guess I must have, since there is a lovely banner ad for a silly hat. *shrug*
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 20, 2020, 07:25:53 AM
I'd love to but I turn Ad-Blocker off for no one.

I wasn't asked to turn off my ad-blocker. Unless... maybe I did for this site a while ago and forgot? I guess I must have, since there is a lovely banner ad for a silly hat. *shrug*

Silly hat? Ok, maybe.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: garry on April 20, 2020, 08:33:54 AM
Since the govt has monetized COVID-19 deaths (giving hospitals money for each one), I can't believe any numbers regarding COVID-19 deaths. It has been reported that hospitals are cooking the books and claiming many  normal deaths as COVID-19 without any testing in order to get more money. That could be fake news, but it's pretty much impossible to know what is real and what is fake any more.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Vulcanbill on April 20, 2020, 08:48:15 AM
Here's a nice, airy piece for some light reading.  I'm still going nowhere but to work and back with mandatory stops at the gas station but that's largely my life anyway.  But reading this...  I might double down on the sanitizing at work and at the gas station.  I guess taking comfort in my bionic immune system isn't very comforting after all.  :(

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/04/how-does-coronavirus-kill-clinicians-trace-ferocious-rampage-through-body-brain-toes# (https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/04/how-does-coronavirus-kill-clinicians-trace-ferocious-rampage-through-body-brain-toes#)

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on April 20, 2020, 09:19:16 AM
Since the govt has monetized COVID-19 deaths (giving hospitals money for each one), I can't believe any numbers regarding COVID-19 deaths.

The US is "special". This is how Switzerland feels about its leaders.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/comments/g4qjra/thank_you_mr_berset/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/comments/g4qjra/thank_you_mr_berset/)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 20, 2020, 09:20:58 AM
Since the govt has monetized COVID-19 deaths (giving hospitals money for each one), I can't believe any numbers regarding COVID-19 deaths.

The US is "special". This is how Switzerland feels about its leaders.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/comments/g4qjra/thank_you_mr_berset/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/comments/g4qjra/thank_you_mr_berset/)

We're special alright. In a window licking sort of way. Just use these discussions as a reference.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: nickybcareful on April 20, 2020, 10:46:17 AM
From "Need2Know"

2. WHEN WILL IT END?
When do we get back to normal? What even is normal? The Atlantic’s Ed Yong, who has been doing some of the best coronavirus reporting and writing we’ve seen, sought to answer those questions in his latest piece, which should be required reading for anyone wondering what the next several months in America will look like. THE ATLANTIC

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/pandemic-summer-coronavirus-reopening-back-normal/609940/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/pandemic-summer-coronavirus-reopening-back-normal/609940/)

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 20, 2020, 11:19:32 AM
From "Need2Know"

2. WHEN WILL IT END?
When do we get back to normal? What even is normal? The Atlantic’s Ed Yong, who has been doing some of the best coronavirus reporting and writing we’ve seen, sought to answer those questions in his latest piece, which should be required reading for anyone wondering what the next several months in America will look like. THE ATLANTIC

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/pandemic-summer-coronavirus-reopening-back-normal/609940/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/pandemic-summer-coronavirus-reopening-back-normal/609940/)

I hadn't seen that one yet. Thank you. Damned good article. <3

And a great point that really matters when trying to find out who REALLY has been infected and not, and why it's so important..
Quote
First, antibodies aren’t always effective at neutralizing viruses. If you picture the coronavirus as a car, an antibody might slash its tires, or just gum up its wipers—and simple serology tests can’t tell which.

Second, even if the antibodies are the right kind, no one knows what concentration you’d need to confer immunity. “Even for diseases we’ve been studying for over 100 years, like whooping cough, we still don’t know what level of antibody would indicate that you’d be protected if you got reexposed,” said Sam Scarpino of Northeastern University, who studies infectious-disease dynamics. The only way to find out is through long studies.

Third, serological tests for the new coronavirus could be deeply misleading for individuals. Consider the test produced by Cellex—the only one thus far with emergency use authorization from the FDA. The test has a 93.8 percent chance of correctly identifying people with antibodies against the new coronavirus, and a 95.6 percent chance of correctly identifying people who lack those antibodies. Those numbers sound great, but if only a minority of Americans have been infected, the test would return far more false positives than true ones. Put it this way: If you have a positive result, the odds that you actually have any relevant antibodies are roughly one in two if 5 percent of the U.S. has been infected, and just one in six if only 1 percent has been infected. Scientists can correct for these errors if they use serological tests to assess immunity in a population, but it’s much harder on a person-by-person basis.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 20, 2020, 11:22:12 AM
Since the govt has monetized COVID-19 deaths (giving hospitals money for each one), I can't believe any numbers regarding COVID-19 deaths.

The US is "special". This is how Switzerland feels about its leaders.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/comments/g4qjra/thank_you_mr_berset/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/Switzerland/comments/g4qjra/thank_you_mr_berset/)

Germany, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, New Zealand. These are the places I'd prefer to be right now. The worst responses have come from the UK, Italy, Spain and the USA. At least Italy and Spain had some form of excuse-they didn't really know what was coming. The UK and the USA did.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 20, 2020, 11:28:46 AM
Also another point many aren't taking into consideration, and a point I got blasted on when bringing it up in the past...

Quote
...it’s reasonable to assume that someone who recovers from COVID-19 would be less likely to get infected again (for some duration that is still unclear). “But we can’t assume that you won’t bring that virus to someone else,” said Mina, the Harvard immunologist. “I worry that a lot of employers are just assuming that having antibodies or having been infected means you’re good to get back to work.” A false sense of security could quicken the spread of the virus during future surges, especially if people ignore social-distancing orders on the mistaken belief that they are immune.


Just because you get it, nothing guarantees you're automatically immune forever. Nothing guarantees the time frame of the "if" of it. We still have so much to learn.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on April 20, 2020, 12:30:03 PM
True that.  Look how long it took to come up with a treatment for HIV.  We are all hoping for a vaccine next year...
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on April 20, 2020, 12:56:48 PM
We still have so much to learn.

And this what people fail to realize. If Dr. Bob say one day "We believe that the virus does X", but then a week later states "We now believe that the virus does Y" - everyone goes off on the scientists for not knowing what they're talking about and how the story keeps changing  :willy:

That's the point: they are adapting their reactions to the new information that arises every day.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: minimac on April 20, 2020, 01:35:31 PM

That's the point: they are adapting their reactions to the new information that arises every day.

Then why not just say that they have no clue what they're dealing with, but are learning. By coming out with statements as "fact' only to be contradicted later, undermines  any validity in what is put forth later.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 20, 2020, 01:40:36 PM

That's the point: they are adapting their reactions to the new information that arises every day.

Then why not just say that they have no clue what they're dealing with, but are learning. By coming out with statements as "fact' only to be contradicted later, undermines  any validity in what is put forth later.

Valid point by Toilet Boy.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on April 20, 2020, 01:47:41 PM

That's the point: they are adapting their reactions to the new information that arises every day.

Then why not just say that they have no clue what they're dealing with, but are learning. By coming out with statements as "fact' only to be contradicted later, undermines  any validity in what is put forth later.

The scientists have been saying exactly that. And that's why they also say that reopening when we haven't even put a competent testing plan in place is silly.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on April 20, 2020, 02:04:16 PM

That's the point: they are adapting their reactions to the new information that arises every day.

Then why not just say that they have no clue what they're dealing with, but are learning. By coming out with statements as "fact' only to be contradicted later, undermines  any validity in what is put forth later.

The scientists have been saying exactly that. And that's why they also say that reopening when we haven't even put a competent testing plan in place is silly.

Exactly. I have heard many, many reports about how this is completely new and they are still trying to understand how the virus works, etc.

This is a valid case of "choose your news source carefully" - those who say they have the "facts" should be regarded with suspicion. :crazy:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Flyer on April 20, 2020, 05:16:35 PM

That's the point: they are adapting their reactions to the new information that arises every day.
By coming out with statements as "fact' only to be contradicted later, undermines  any validity in what is put forth later.
Sorry, but I've not heard any Biomedical Doctor profess any fact about this virus beside the fact that it's created a PANDEMIC.
Only our Great Grandparents really knew what that means, but they're all gone...
If you are prepared to listen to only pundits and trolls, the noise drowns out rational discussion.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 20, 2020, 05:33:18 PM

That's the point: they are adapting their reactions to the new information that arises every day.

Then why not just say that they have no clue what they're dealing with, but are learning. By coming out with statements as "fact' only to be contradicted later, undermines  any validity in what is put forth later.

The scientists have been saying exactly that. And that's why they also say that reopening when we haven't even put a competent testing plan in place is silly.

* ding *

Whippy told me today he expects to see full testing available by the end of May.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on April 20, 2020, 05:42:59 PM

That's the point: they are adapting their reactions to the new information that arises every day.

Then why not just say that they have no clue what they're dealing with, but are learning. By coming out with statements as "fact' only to be contradicted later, undermines  any validity in what is put forth later.

The scientists have been saying exactly that. And that's why they also say that reopening when we haven't even put a competent testing plan in place is silly.

* ding *

Whippy told me today he expects to see full testing available by the end of May.

That's finally some good news and would change the conversation. And Whippy's a pretty clued in source for that.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on April 20, 2020, 06:04:18 PM
Interesting article.

https://townhall.com/columnists/marinamedvin/2020/04/15/israeli-professor-shows-virus-follows-fixed-pattern-n2566915
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 20, 2020, 06:11:08 PM
Wouldn't that be interesting if a warming world was inhospitable to SARS-Covid-2.   :bigsmile:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on April 20, 2020, 07:16:59 PM
Interesting article.

https://townhall.com/columnists/marinamedvin/2020/04/15/israeli-professor-shows-virus-follows-fixed-pattern-n2566915

I trust you saw the little red box with the white capital letters on the upper left side of the page that says “OPINION”.   Ok, you got me.   I can’t believe I was dumb enough to click that link
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 20, 2020, 07:37:25 PM
Quote
But what about Italy and their staggering 12% mortality rate? “The health system in Italy has its own problems. It has nothing to do with coronavirus. In 2017 it also collapsed because of the flu,” Professor Yitzhak Ben Israel told the news agency. Indeed, Italy’s exceptionally high coronavirus mortality rate is eerily reminiscent of their unusually high flu mortality rates. Supportive of this theory, Germany, has low flu infection and mortality rates and similarly low coronavirus rates.

I like it! Not because of poor Italy, but because we were never going to be like Italy as we don't have their aging population. The MSM fear porn was very recent.
















Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on April 21, 2020, 04:14:59 AM
Interesting article.

https://townhall.com/columnists/marinamedvin/2020/04/15/israeli-professor-shows-virus-follows-fixed-pattern-n2566915

I trust you saw the little red box with the white capital letters on the upper left side of the page that says “OPINION”.   Ok, you got me.   I can’t believe I was dumb enough to click that link

IIRC, the article states that the conclusion is the opinion that shutting down the economy was unnecessary based on the results of his study of the virus’ behavior....that we’d have seen the same ebbing off regardless.

I find that the numbers indicating that the virus follows a pattern regardless of preventative measures interesting in and of itself.

The first half of the article is factual reporting, the second half is where the writer is exclusively uttering his/her opinion.

Just because it’s an opinion piece doesn’t mean there are facts in the article....you just need to know how to distinguish one from another.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: radon222 on April 21, 2020, 06:31:54 AM
Do we really need to go back to the graph (https://theweichertreport.files.wordpress.com/2020/03/flatten-curve-promo_wide-c45d9e9228e0f75542c94240cb4fc2b050224adc.jpg) showing curves with and without protective measures?   I comes down to a trade off of Amplitude vs. Period.   With no social distancing sure this thing might be further behind us, but at what cost?

When you're not directly in one of the hot zones, you have a different perspective from those who are.  Me included, right now the whole things seems crazy looking from the beach.

But then I was talking to a friend.  His normal day job is a NICU Respiratory Therapist.  In a hospital in Westcester County NY.  Ya there.  In the last month plus, he's been there, he's seen it, he lived through his own CoVid infection.  You want to know what his big news was last night when I talked to him?  His hospital finally went 24 hrs without having to intubate a CoVID patient for the first time in over a month.

Think about it from that perspective as if it was your neighborhood, town, county getting hammered?   Because it still could be,  this ride ain't over yet.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 21, 2020, 06:58:40 AM
Thank you.

That's the problem where I am. We are very rural. I was just chatting with a fellow AA guy that still goes to meetings in person. He says he's not buying the hype.

I agree that msm spreads fear and loathing but at the same time it's quite clear that this is an ugly situation to be taken seriously.

I don't want to be the guy with no symptoms that kills your mom or sick child so I'll do my part.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Vulcanbill on April 21, 2020, 07:59:44 AM
Ditto.  It's hard when you're not in the thick of it.  I know there are starving children all over the world too but since I don't see it every day, well, you know.  Reading that article I posted recently about how the virus ravages the body got my spidey senses tingling a little more as well.  Thinking that I'm a relatively healthy person with an otherwise bionic immune system is no longer nearly as comforting as it was knowing that that same immune system could actually be what kills me.  There are still very few changes in my day to day but my attitude about it leaves much room for improvement.  I'm quite blessed that my world is largely unaffected.  Granted, that was part of the point of moving out to the sticks but still...
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 21, 2020, 08:31:50 AM
You've all just described how this isn't a one- size-fits-all.  There is no reason you shouldn't be able to go to an AA meeting, wear mask and stay 6 feet apart. Same with Lowes, grocery stores, and other businesses that could be open but are not because we're all pretending we're NYC.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 21, 2020, 08:33:50 AM
We don't want to become New York.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 21, 2020, 08:34:24 AM
On a smaller scale of course.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on April 21, 2020, 08:48:49 AM
We don't want to become New York.

Exactly.

It takes one person - one! - to infect an entire town. And that person may never even show any signs, so would be completely ignorant that they even carry the virus.

I've seen it spread fast and far over here. I look at the US and hopefully I'm wrong, but I really can't see how it will get better before it gets worse. Hell, even Wyoming has cases!  :o
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: maddjack on April 21, 2020, 09:10:42 AM
You've all just described how this isn't a one- size-fits-all.  There is no reason you shouldn't be able to go to an AA meeting, wear mask and stay 6 feet apart. Same with Lowes, grocery stores, and other businesses that could be open but are not because we're all pretending we're NYC.
Lowes and Grocery stores are open, so are convenience stores beer dist ect.Honeywell is running its Fombell plant balls to the wall, thank god I retired from there. You act like everything is closed.Its not. And while where you live in Pa isn't a hot spot, this area I live in was , is and I am not in the city , a suburb who for a month had the highest infection rate in the county and western end of the state.I have buried people from this shit, I know two who survived but one has lung problems now and shes 33 years old, so go ahead, blow it off, life lessons can be real frackin hard.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 21, 2020, 09:15:26 AM
We're doing it now. Lowes, Home Depot, grocery stores, convenience stores, people outside exercising... Everywhere.

There's a whopping 19 cases in my county. There is no reason other businesses can't open safely.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 21, 2020, 09:18:34 AM
Again, it's not a one size fits all.

"And while where you live in Pa isn't a hot spot, this area I live in was , is and I am not in the city"
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 21, 2020, 09:18:44 AM
Imagine if you could just catch ebola or hiv walking within 10 feet of another human.

Bam! If you're anywhere near the high-risk category, it's pretty much the exact same thing. Even for people not considered high risk.

For instance, a 38 year old marathoner in the prime of his life with no underlying medical issues. Dead of covid. Fluke, according to the numbers. Absolutely. A preventable tragedy for him and his family? 100%.

Yeah, it's a neo nazi plot to control everyone.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 21, 2020, 09:20:26 AM
I'll put this here as a point of reference for the future.


visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 21, 2020, 09:20:50 AM
"You act like everything is closed.Its not."

No I am not. That is your misinterpretation.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 21, 2020, 09:21:50 AM
Hopefully we are wrong and you are correct.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 21, 2020, 09:22:48 AM
Again, it's not a one size fits all.

"And while where you live in Pa isn't a hot spot, this area I live in was , is and I am not in the city"

And one person passing through Jack's town stops at a gas pump, picks up the bug, stops in your town buys a soda at sheetz, and 500 people passing through there open the same fridge...

The sheetz is open.
The gas station is open.
People are staying 6 feet apart.
But one person didn't take precautions and now hundreds are at risk.

It's about group risk mitigation.

I'm sorry you can't understand that. People can't be counted on to look after others, or themselves.

Get over it.

If you ask me, too much stuff is still operating.

You know what it would have taken in the 80s to eradicate HIV in humans? People staying with the same partner or alone for 10 years. Go out, live life, do all the things. Just keep it in your pants. That was WAY easier. 40 years later only a very select few can come close to affording the medications that keep you alive and healthy, but the virus isn't yet something we can effectively kill. And covid is FAR more contagious and non-host resilient.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 21, 2020, 09:25:47 AM
States and the rest of the world are beginning to reopen. It is a good thing. Get over it.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 21, 2020, 09:26:43 AM
States and the rest of the world are beginning to reopen. Get over it.

Can I have your bike?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 21, 2020, 09:28:06 AM
You need to develop the balls to come outside first.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: maddjack on April 21, 2020, 09:30:46 AM
You need to develop the balls to come outside first.
Getting thru to you is like drilling granite with a paper straw. Why try.Your rants are pathetically comical, in scope and wackiness.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 21, 2020, 09:31:26 AM
States and the rest of the world are beginning to reopen. It is a good thing. Get over it.

As John noted, I hope you're right, I hope your belief is correct. I believe your way of thinking will kill a shit ton more people before we have a handle on this.

But hey... belief is a powerful thing, ain't it.

As you're a fellow human, I hope you don't have to bury anyone as a result of this blight.
As you seem to be an apparent narrow minded jerk who wants to see people die, I think you will.
I believe you will. And I'm sorry for that. I hope that if you have to go through something like that, you learn something from it.

Belief has killed a lot of people.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 21, 2020, 09:32:02 AM
You need to develop the balls to come outside first.

I'm a patient guy. Please leave the title under the seat.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 21, 2020, 09:32:48 AM
You need to develop the balls to come outside first.

I'm a patient guy. Please leave the title under the seat.

  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 21, 2020, 09:34:15 AM
Perhaps if you'd get back to work you could afford your own.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 21, 2020, 09:36:50 AM
Perhaps if you'd get back to work you could afford your own.


** snicker **
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 21, 2020, 09:43:07 AM
Perhaps if you'd get back to work you could afford your own.


** snicker **

If he only knew, right?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 21, 2020, 09:43:56 AM
Again, there's nothing that says you can't keep hiding and hoping for a free bike as the rest of the world adapts and moves on. Remember to snitch on your neighbors.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: maddjack on April 21, 2020, 09:44:28 AM
Perhaps if you'd get back to work you could afford your own.


** snicker **

If he only knew, right?
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: radon222 on April 21, 2020, 09:45:02 AM
Perhaps if you'd get back to work you could afford your own.

You haven't paid attention to Cookies garage..errr Shed recently have you?    :headscratch:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 21, 2020, 09:46:20 AM
Perhaps if you'd get back to work you could afford your own.


You haven't paid attention to Cookies garage..errr Shed recently have you?    :headscratch:


Its kind of become a barn and some sheds. The new shed is to house the latest addition.


visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 21, 2020, 09:52:47 AM
Now as far as the get back to work thing, I am smack in the middle of a very hot county and working which is why I find your displays of ignorance laughable.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Vulcanbill on April 21, 2020, 10:04:46 AM
I just hope people take this time at home to work on bettering humanity.  Like this:

https://www.facebook.com/Megavijesticom/videos/1035322123486056/?t=191 (https://www.facebook.com/Megavijesticom/videos/1035322123486056/?t=191)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 21, 2020, 10:06:51 AM
You must be terrified that the world is adapting and moving on.  There's people a lot smarter than you and chornbie implementing it. If you want a free motorcycle I suggest spending a minute amount on a raffle ticket. Good luck.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 21, 2020, 10:09:12 AM
I just hope people take this time at home to work on bettering humanity.  Like this:

https://www.facebook.com/Megavijesticom/videos/1035322123486056/?t=191 (https://www.facebook.com/Megavijesticom/videos/1035322123486056/?t=191)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 21, 2020, 10:12:45 AM
You must be terrified that the world is adapting and moving on.  There's people a lot smarter than you and chornbie implementing it. If you want a free motorcycle I suggest spending a minute amount on a raffle ticket. Good luck.

I'm glad you didn't include yourself in that list.

No one's saying things can't happen.

People - a LOT of people - are saying it's stupid to just open everything back up and try to return to what was normal a few months back. That version of normal is gone. We need good testing. We don't have it yet. Without that, the world is just pissing in the dark. I'd rather be a tinch more careful than that.

What you call fear is... well... yeah. It's fear. For life. For humanity. Not of the government. Get that through your fucking skull; it's not a police state that I fear, or that is happening at all. It's a radical change to humanity, the human condition, and our being able to survive this as best we all can.

Fuck man, you're smarter than this. Aren't you? Am I just overestimating people? Wtf.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on April 21, 2020, 10:14:06 AM

I may regret asking but what does this mean?

There's people a lot smarter than you and chornbie implementing it.

What "it" are you referring to here?


Also: who doesn't want a free bike? If someone is going to be stupid and jump off a bridge, why not ask if you can have the bike after he's jumped? I mean, otherwise it would just sit there.

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: garry on April 21, 2020, 10:15:31 AM
I just hope people take this time at home to work on bettering humanity.  Like this:

https://www.facebook.com/Megavijesticom/videos/1035322123486056/?t=191 (https://www.facebook.com/Megavijesticom/videos/1035322123486056/?t=191)

Like watching a bowl of jello in an earthquake. Impressive muscle control though.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 21, 2020, 10:15:44 AM
Also: who doesn't want a free bike? If someone is going to be stupid and jump off a bridge, why not ask if you can have the bike after he's jumped? I mean, otherwise it would just sit there.

** ding **  :bigok:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 21, 2020, 10:20:27 AM
That's just incredibly stupid.

Would your motorcycle just "sit there"?

Hint: It's a rhetorical question.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: radon222 on April 21, 2020, 10:23:49 AM
That's just incredibly stupid.

Would your motorcycle just "sit there"?

Hint: It's a rhetorical question.

If I'm not there to ride it,  what the hell else is gonna do?   Sure my wife rides her own,  but she can't touch the ground on the GSA  ;D
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 21, 2020, 10:25:35 AM
You must be terrified that the world is adapting and moving on.  There's people a lot smarter than you and chornbie implementing it. If you want a free motorcycle I suggest spending a minute amount on a raffle ticket. Good luck.

I'm glad you didn't include yourself in that list.

No one's saying things can't happen.

People - a LOT of people - are saying it's stupid to just open everything back up and try to return to what was normal a few months back. That version of normal is gone. We need good testing. We don't have it yet. Without that, the world is just pissing in the dark. I'd rather be a tinch more careful than that.

What you call fear is... well... yeah. It's fear. For life. For humanity. Not of the government. Get that through your fucking skull; it's not a police state that I fear, or that is happening at all. It's a radical change to humanity, the human condition, and our being able to survive this as best we all can.

Fuck man, you're smarter than this. Aren't you? Am I just overestimating people? Wtf.

Chornbie, before you call others stupid you should probably review your "non-asymptomatic" comment in a recent post.

You see, you're either symptomatic or asymptomatic. K?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 21, 2020, 10:29:58 AM
That's just incredibly stupid.

Would your motorcycle just "sit there"?

Hint: It's a rhetorical question.

If I'm not there to ride it,  what the hell else is gonna do?   Sure my wife rides her own,  but she can't touch the ground on the GSA  ;D

I'm sorry if your wife wouldn't take care of matters for you after you've jumped off a bridge.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on April 21, 2020, 10:31:22 AM
That's just incredibly stupid.

Would your motorcycle just "sit there"?

Hint: It's a rhetorical question.

If I'm not there to ride it,  what the hell else is gonna do?   Sure my wife rides her own,  but she can't touch the ground on the GSA  ;D

I'm sorry if your wife wouldn't take care of matters for you after you've jumped off a bridge.

 :facepalm:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Flyer on April 21, 2020, 10:52:10 AM
Wouldn't that be interesting if a warming world was inhospitable to SARS-Covid-2.   :bigsmile:
Singapore.
 :nuts:
If you, or one of your self-centered, arrogant and entitled non-stay safe/stay home dolts infect me and/or mine, (after six weeks of isolation),
I will snap, to hunt you down and kick you inna nutz let the air out of both your wheels.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on April 21, 2020, 10:53:58 AM
Associated News just reported “Oktoberfest in Munich canceled as Bavarian governor says ‘risk is too high’”. and “BERLIN — This year’s Oktoberfest in Munich has been called off because of the coronavirus pandemic. The cancellation of the world-famous annual celebration of beer and Bavarian customs, which was set to run from Sept. 19 to Oct. 4, underlines expectations that the path back to normal life will be very long.”


Not trying to change the subject, but proactive well-thought out measures initiated well in advance could just as well explain Germany’s low incidence rate as opposed to cockamamie unsupported non-peer reviewed analysis published on a Russian backed fake news conspiracy web site. 

Just in case I failed to let you know how I felt about that. 
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 21, 2020, 10:54:59 AM

Chornbie, before you call others stupid you should probably review your "non-asymptomatic" comment in a recent post.

You see, you're either symptomatic or asymptomatic. K?

Uhm... what now?

If you're asymptomatic, you're the most dangerous person to be out in the world; you're likely not taking all the precautions because you think you're fine, you're safe, and you're magically immune. Not out of malice, but holy crap, the asymptomatic people need to be careful and stay away from others just like... you know.... everyone following the guidelines and rules.

If you're symptomatic, you're probably at home anyway feeling like shit, and if you're out in the world, and you're not a sociopathic fuck head, you're taking precautions and only venturing out due to actual need.

If you're symptomatic and going out just because, and you don't give a fuck about people, not caring who you infect, well then... you should be lit on fire.

So... what now?

*edit*

Ah. A typo. You can't even spell the name I use when it's right there in your face, and you're suggesting I'm stupid for a typo. There we go. Thanks for the clarity.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 21, 2020, 10:55:37 AM
Wouldn't that be interesting if a warming world was inhospitable to SARS-Covid-2.   :bigsmile:
Singapore.
 :nuts:
If you, or one of your self-centered, arrogant and entitled non-stay safe/stay home dolts infect me and/or mine, (after six weeks of isolation),
I will snap, to hunt you down and kick you inna nutz let the air out of both your wheels.

Fine, but you're still not getting my bike for free.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 21, 2020, 10:56:10 AM
Associated News just reported “Oktoberfest in Munich canceled as Bavarian governor says ‘risk is too high’”. and “BERLIN — This year’s Oktoberfest in Munich has been called off because of the coronavirus pandemic. The cancellation of the world-famous annual celebration of beer and Bavarian customs, which was set to run from Sept. 19 to Oct. 4, underlines expectations that the path back to normal life will be very long.”

"See? Nazis telling people what to do." -- ChrisFZ1

"Thank goodness, reduce the risk." -- the rest of humanity
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 21, 2020, 11:02:01 AM
Chornbie, humanity is adapting and beginning to open for business.

Get over it.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 21, 2020, 11:11:24 AM
Chornbie, humanity is adapting and beginning to open for business.

Get over it.

Yeah, you said that. I don't see much changing, really, from where we are right now, but ok.

Lifting all the restrictions without testing measures and while relying on John Q Public to actually take the precautions seriously is... dumb. I guess from your point of view, it's ok. And it may be a necessity for the economy. Dumb necessities exist.

I'm also guessing you're not old enough to be closer to the at-risk population, so you have that on your side; you can 'afford' to be a little riskier.

It's fine. We disagree. I genuinely hope we all come out of this ok.

But... it's not worse because we followed the guidelines. Thinking otherwise, especially in the absence of any other evidence, it's blissfully ignorant naivety at the very least. Dismissive stupidity in the more likely.

Ciao.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on April 21, 2020, 11:11:53 AM

"See? Nazis telling people what to do." -- ChrisFZ1

"Thank goodness, reduce the risk." -- the rest of humanity

That statement is incredibly offensive to any German national and I apologize for our group.

We go a little too far here sometimes.   Carry on.   
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 21, 2020, 11:14:04 AM
Chornbie, I am older ( and smarter) than you.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 21, 2020, 11:15:59 AM
Chornbie, I am older ( and smarter) than you.

Let's not compare brain pans. That isn't likely to turn out how you want.

I have no idea how old you are. Your attitude suggests the exuberance of those who haven't lived long enough to understand that shit needs to go certain ways sometimes.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 21, 2020, 11:18:19 AM
Chornbie, I am older ( and smarter) than you.

Come on, this is really Rajflyboy, right?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 21, 2020, 11:19:12 AM

"See? Nazis telling people what to do." -- ChrisFZ1

"Thank goodness, reduce the risk." -- the rest of humanity

That statement is incredibly offensive to any German national and I apologize for our group.

We go a little too far here sometimes.   Carry on.   

On the upside, I was simply extrapolating, and not making that statement out of whole cloth.

To obey without question!

You muzt haff your paperz!
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: radon222 on April 21, 2020, 11:21:15 AM
That's just incredibly stupid.

Would your motorcycle just "sit there"?

Hint: It's a rhetorical question.

If I'm not there to ride it,  what the hell else is gonna do?   Sure my wife rides her own,  but she can't touch the ground on the GSA  ;D

I'm sorry if your wife wouldn't take care of matters for you after you've jumped off a bridge.

Oh I have no doubt she would take care of matters.  By flipping Cookie the keys and sayin... "Have fun dude!"
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 21, 2020, 11:23:32 AM
That's just incredibly stupid.

Would your motorcycle just "sit there"?

Hint: It's a rhetorical question.

If I'm not there to ride it,  what the hell else is gonna do?   Sure my wife rides her own,  but she can't touch the ground on the GSA  ;D

I'm sorry if your wife wouldn't take care of matters for you after you've jumped off a bridge.

Oh I have no doubt she would take care of matters.  By flipping Cookie the keys and sayin... "Have fun dude!"
I could trade the BMW for a Royal Enfield and a Grizo.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: radon222 on April 21, 2020, 11:25:04 AM
That's just incredibly stupid.

Would your motorcycle just "sit there"?

Hint: It's a rhetorical question.

If I'm not there to ride it,  what the hell else is gonna do?   Sure my wife rides her own,  but she can't touch the ground on the GSA  ;D

I'm sorry if your wife wouldn't take care of matters for you after you've jumped off a bridge.

Oh I have no doubt she would take care of matters.  By flipping Cookie the keys and sayin... "Have fun dude!"
I could trade the BMW for a Royal Enfield and a Grizo.

That's between you and her.  I jumped off a bridge.  Remember?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 21, 2020, 11:30:18 AM
That's just incredibly stupid.

Would your motorcycle just "sit there"?

Hint: It's a rhetorical question.

If I'm not there to ride it,  what the hell else is gonna do?   Sure my wife rides her own,  but she can't touch the ground on the GSA  ;D

I'm sorry if your wife wouldn't take care of matters for you after you've jumped off a bridge.

Oh I have no doubt she would take care of matters.  By flipping Cookie the keys and sayin... "Have fun dude!"
I could trade the BMW for a Royal Enfield and a Grizo.

That's between you and her.  I jumped off a bridge.  Remember?

Can't swim?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: radon222 on April 21, 2020, 11:31:08 AM
That's just incredibly stupid.

Would your motorcycle just "sit there"?

Hint: It's a rhetorical question.

If I'm not there to ride it,  what the hell else is gonna do?   Sure my wife rides her own,  but she can't touch the ground on the GSA  ;D

I'm sorry if your wife wouldn't take care of matters for you after you've jumped off a bridge.

Oh I have no doubt she would take care of matters.  By flipping Cookie the keys and sayin... "Have fun dude!"
I could trade the BMW for a Royal Enfield and a Grizo.

That's between you and her.  I jumped off a bridge.  Remember?

Can't swim?

Not with concrete shoes
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on April 21, 2020, 11:37:04 AM
“We want to act as fast as possible but as slowly as necessary,”

  -  Alain Berset, head of the Federal Department of Home Affairs in Switzerland
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 21, 2020, 11:43:57 AM
Oh dear God. Chornie, there are federal and state guidelines to begin opening. States are doing so now. Other countries are doing so now.  Duh. These guidelines are put in place by people a lot smarter than you.

Thankfully, we don't have to put up with any of your shit-for-brains guidelines, whatever they might be.
 
I've met you, I've talked to you, and now I've had some "discussions" with you. Dude, my IQ is at least two standard deviations above yours.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on April 21, 2020, 11:45:06 AM
"Oh, this parachute has slowed my descent. Guess I can take it off now!"
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: st2sam on April 21, 2020, 12:04:11 PM
"Oh, this parachute has slowed my descent. Guess I can take it off now!"
:needpics:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: maddjack on April 21, 2020, 12:19:53 PM
. Dude, my IQ is at least two standard deviations above yours.
.  DONALD,is that you??? The best ever!!!
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 21, 2020, 12:22:44 PM
wut
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 21, 2020, 12:44:26 PM
Dude, my IQ is at least two standard deviations above yours.

Says the guy who's comparing health and safety to nazi order and control.

ok

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 21, 2020, 12:47:04 PM
Chornbes a Stoopid
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 21, 2020, 12:49:34 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc7ny.com/amp/reopening-states-opening-america-again-guidelines/6113052/ (https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc7ny.com/amp/reopening-states-opening-america-again-guidelines/6113052/)

Don't be scared, there's people a lot smarter than you figuring it out.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: nickybcareful on April 21, 2020, 12:55:10 PM
Episode 447: Stealth style transmission? Covert data on COVID-19
6 days ago

In episode 447, Mike and James invite Tina and Mike to talk about a really important topic – is there asymptomatic transmission of COVID-19? The simple answer is yes. Have a listen and hear about all the data and the numbers.
Show notes
Tools for Practice

https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly90aGVyYXBldXRpY3NlZHVjYXRpb24ub3JnL2ZlZWQvcG9kY2FzdC8&episode=aHR0cHM6Ly90ZWMtY2FzdC1kNy5zMy5hbWF6b25hd3MuY29tL0VwaXNvZGVfNDQ3X1N0ZWFsdGhfc3R5bGVfdHJhbnNtaXNzaW9uX0NvdmVydF9kYXRhX29uX0NPVklELTE5Lm1wMw&hl=en&ved=2ahUKEwiqkMjXifroAhVbLs0KHeUUCN4QieUEegQICxAE&ep=6
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on April 21, 2020, 01:10:35 PM
Dude, my IQ is at least two standard deviations above yours.

Is that due to the Dunning–Kruger effect?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 21, 2020, 01:14:30 PM
Dude, my IQ is at least two standard deviations above yours.

Is that due to the Dunning–Kruger effect?

hahahahaha
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 21, 2020, 01:34:04 PM
Dude, my IQ is at least two standard deviations above yours.

Is that due to the Dunning–Kruger effect?

It has to do with some of my interlocutors achieving the Peter Principle.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 21, 2020, 01:35:05 PM
Chornbes a Stoopid

It's true. All these things in my career and life... whoofah, man I'm a lucky dude. Sorry.

Fortunately, Liz is brilliant, and I can just lean back and embrace the dumb.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 21, 2020, 01:36:29 PM
See?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on April 21, 2020, 01:36:43 PM
https://news.usc.edu/168987/antibody-testing-results-covid-19-infections-los-angeles-county/

I'll just drop this right here.

Of course we won't know till the final numbers. 
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 21, 2020, 01:37:24 PM
Chornbes a Stoopid

It's true. All these things in my career and life... whoofah, man I'm a lucky dude. Sorry.

Fortunately, Liz is brilliant, and I can just lean back and embrace the dumb.

Don't sell that ass of hers short now.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: radon222 on April 21, 2020, 01:38:48 PM
Dude, my IQ is at least two standard deviations above yours.

Is that due to the Dunning–Kruger effect?

Krogers was still out of TP down here.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 21, 2020, 01:38:58 PM
https://news.usc.edu/168987/antibody-testing-results-covid-19-infections-los-angeles-county/

I'll just drop this right here.

Of course we won't know till the final numbers.

That's a great start to putting the populace at ease. Thanks for posting.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 21, 2020, 01:39:22 PM
Dude, my IQ is at least two standard deviations above yours.

Is that due to the Dunning–Kruger effect?

Krogers was still out of TP down here.

No, no.... the other one. The one with donuts.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on April 21, 2020, 02:01:48 PM
https://news.usc.edu/168987/antibody-testing-results-covid-19-infections-los-angeles-county/

I'll just drop this right here.

Of course we won't know till the final numbers.

Sounds like good news to me.  Just speculation on my part, but if those numbers hold, then the death rate from COVID-19 is only about twice that from seasonal flu, keeping in mind there is still a huge difference in severity; average hospitalization for seasonal flu is 3 to 5 days, whereas COVID-19 is 3 to 5 weeks, in round numbers. 
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 21, 2020, 02:05:06 PM
Im watching a live cast with our governor. We are in the middle of our surge. New York being on the back side of the surge loaned us over 1000 ventilators to help us through our spike. I think that that's pretty cool.

Also as of now, The Red Sox are undefeated and The Yankees have not won a single game.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on April 21, 2020, 02:27:14 PM
Dude, my IQ is at least two standard deviations above yours.

Says the guy who's comparing health and safety to nazi order and control.


You guys should just get a room and have some passionate man-sex.  Get it over with.   :bigok:


I'm mostly just here to poke things with a stick.   :bigsmile:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: radon222 on April 21, 2020, 02:30:41 PM
Im watching a live cast with our governor. We are in the middle of our surge. New York being on the back side of the surge loaned us over 1000 ventilators to help us through our spike. I think that that's pretty cool.

Also as of now, The Red Sox are undefeated and The Yankees have not won a single game.


And when you look at that way, the O's are finally having a helluva season  ;D
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: jadziadax8 on April 21, 2020, 02:54:01 PM
Also as of now, The Red Sox are undefeated and The Yankees have not won a single game.

Out!
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on April 21, 2020, 03:00:12 PM


I'm mostly just here to poke things with a stick.   :bigsmile:


 :pokestick:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 21, 2020, 03:13:20 PM


I'm mostly just here to poke things with a stick.   :bigsmile:


 :pokestick:

I thought that was my job.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: nickybcareful on April 21, 2020, 03:23:26 PM
As an add-on to the Best Science Medicine Podcast (above): Stealth style transmission? Covert data on COVID-19

Mass Testing at Ohio Prison Shows Many People With Coronavirus Show No Symptoms
https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2020/04/20/mass-testing-at-ohio-prison-shows-many-people-with-coronavirus-show-no-symptoms-underscoring-difficulty-of-reopening-states (https://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2020/04/20/mass-testing-at-ohio-prison-shows-many-people-with-coronavirus-show-no-symptoms-underscoring-difficulty-of-reopening-states)

In Ohio Governor Mike Dewine’s daily briefing, he overviewed the considerations in opening up the Ohio economy on May 1.  Doctor Amy Acton, Director of Public Health, stated that they expect the number of cases to go up along with hospitalizations, and deaths.

I trust Mike and Amy.  I think they are doing the best they can.  But personally, the metrics are frightening.  If you look at the information posted here and elsewhere, it looks to me like…

•   The number of cases in the US is WAY understated.
•   A significant portion of those infected are asymptomatic and transmit the disease to others.
•   A measurable number of those people die, particularly if they are at risk.

I do risky things – I ride a Ducati.  However, these are risks I understand and have some control over.  This Covid-19 thing is different.  Maybe others will, but I’m just not seeing myself traveling or going to social events this year.  Am I overreacting?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on April 21, 2020, 03:55:08 PM

I do risky things – I ride a Ducati.  However, these are risks I understand and have some control over.  This Covid-19 thing is different.  Maybe others will, but I’m just not seeing myself traveling or going to social events this year.  Am I overreacting?

Not from my perspective.  I might feel differently in 2 or 3 months.  Maybe we'll have a Fall meet; maybe not.

We just spoke with friends who just got home from South America.   They left the 1st week of March.  They got stuck in quarantine for 5 days in one country just because, having no symptoms.  Then they couldn't get a flight out of the second country because there were none.  Fortunately, when they arrived here in the States, there was no medical screening or travel restrictions, so it was much easier for them to make it home.  She came down with a mild GI disorder after arriving home and tested positive for COVID.  He is not eligible under CDC guidelines to be tested, but it is safe to assume he is asymptomatic.  Why they even left home in the first place is beyond me.  (We decided to cancel our trip in May more than 2 weeks before they left.) Now they believe they got exposed in Miami.  But what if it was sometime earlier.  Would you want to be stuck in a hospital some country (like Italy) where you don't speak the language?  Me neither.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on April 21, 2020, 04:43:35 PM
This just in....

Associated Press is reporting “ Hydroxychloroquine as treatment for COVID-19 shows no benefit and more deaths in VA study”

“The nationwide study was not a rigorous experiment. But with 368 patients, it’s the largest look so far of hydroxychloroquine with or without the antibiotic azithromycin for COVID-19, which has killed more than 171,000 people as of Tuesday.

The study was posted on an online site for researchers and has been submitted to the New England Journal of Medicine, but it has not been reviewed by other scientists. Grants from the National Institutes of Health and the University of Virginia paid for the work.”

You can links easily enough with Google. 

[EDIT].  Was just reading another piece and it is possible the dosage level being prescribed was too high for this indication.   
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 21, 2020, 06:49:20 PM

I do risky things – I ride a Ducati.  However, these are risks I understand and have some control over.  This Covid-19 thing is different.  Maybe others will, but I’m just not seeing myself traveling or going to social events this year.  Am I overreacting?

Not from my perspective.  I might feel differently in 2 or 3 months.  Maybe we'll have a Fall meet; maybe not.

We just spoke with friends who just got home from South America.   They left the 1st week of March.  They got stuck in quarantine for 5 days in one country just because, having no symptoms.  Then they couldn't get a flight out of the second country because there were none.  Fortunately, when they arrived here in the States, there was no medical screening or travel restrictions, so it was much easier for them to make it home.  She came down with a mild GI disorder after arriving home and tested positive for COVID.  He is not eligible under CDC guidelines to be tested, but it is safe to assume he is asymptomatic.  Why they even left home in the first place is beyond me.  (We decided to cancel our trip in May more than 2 weeks before they left.) Now they believe they got exposed in Miami.  But what if it was sometime earlier.  Would you want to be stuck in a hospital some country (like Italy) where you don't speak the language?  Me neither.

But... but... Hydroxychloroquine and all the economy.... and... but...

Oh, wait...
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 21, 2020, 07:06:20 PM
Because clinical trials to find an effective treatment are bad.

Just stay home.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on April 21, 2020, 08:16:55 PM
Thoughts on this video on reporters off mic?

https://youtu.be/xl7J2u_YHlE
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Baxter on April 21, 2020, 11:47:05 PM
Good local news for me--my county and the one immediately to the west (with some good riding areas) report near normal hospital capacity.  However, this is not the case in Milwaukee just to my south.

Wisconsin's governor had extended his initial safer at home order, but has also been in discussions with health and business leaders about how to open the economy in a safe way that would hopefully prevent the need to have an additional shutdown.  I suspect that the costs involved with reopening, only to be shut down in another month or so if things got worse, would be devastating to many small businesses like bars and restaurants in particular.  Especially since I don't expect business volume to immediately pick up to where it had been.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on April 22, 2020, 04:28:39 AM
http://web.archive.org/web/20200405061401/https://medium.com/@agaiziunas/covid-19-had-us-all-fooled-but-now-we-might-have-finally-found-its-secret-91182386efcb (http://web.archive.org/web/20200405061401/https://medium.com/@agaiziunas/covid-19-had-us-all-fooled-but-now-we-might-have-finally-found-its-secret-91182386efcb)

New insight on how the disease kills.  May lead to better treatment plans as it doesn’t attack the lungs the way we presumed.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 22, 2020, 04:43:18 AM
I'll pass thank you.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 22, 2020, 05:53:40 AM
Something to think about, check on your people more often these days.


https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/covid-19-is-likely-to-lead-to-an-increase-in-suicides/
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on April 22, 2020, 06:55:16 AM
Something to think about, check on your people more often these days.


https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/covid-19-is-likely-to-lead-to-an-increase-in-suicides/

That's a good one.  While I wasn't close to anything like that, I can certainly commiserate with Emily.  As a strong extrovert I was really struggling the first few weeks as I navigated these new waters.  I need people.  I'm just finding them in different ways.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 22, 2020, 07:13:09 AM
I think I've learned that I'm a "fooling myself extrovert."

I've always been a bit of a home body if I have a choice, but I also really love gathering with people (who I like). I'm kind of loving the zero expectations of going anywhere and sitting around with people. I absolutely miss friends and family, but the lack of... I guess what I now identify as pressure and mild anxiety... about groups is incredibly refreshing. I've always had that moment, every time, walking out the door to go to any sort of gathering of "Do I really wanna do this?", then I do it, and have a great time. But I am most definitely NOT missing that moment.

Huh. A budding introvert, ~54 years in the making.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 22, 2020, 08:10:10 AM
Mild anxiety? lol
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 22, 2020, 09:00:19 AM
Anyway, back to the topic at hand, my sister in law is a nurse in elder care. She said that once the older folks are considered to be in "serious" condition, they're basically turning off like a light switch in fairly short order. I guess if there's any mercy in dying from this disease, it's that a certain portion of folks are going quickly enough and peacefully enough...? :(

She said she has a mini meltdown after every shift. She's in long term care, so she gets to know these people and their families. That's got to be heart breaking. They're also almost completely out of PPE, including basic masks and gloves that should be part of normal stock. :(

She's my oldest brother's wife. She's about 10 years younger than he is. He's ~73. He took his grandson camping (I mean, it's the taj mahal on wheels) for the foreseeable future somewhere away from humans to protect himself and the kid. He's a few months after some pretty serious back surgery which is only about a year after some pretty serious heart surgery, and he's a life long smoker. He's the meatiest part of the risk bell curve, so he's just avoiding everyone as best he can. I'm worried for him. Especially in light of... ahem... recent topics of discussion. :(
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Baxter on April 22, 2020, 11:33:30 AM
I think I've learned that I'm a "fooling myself extrovert."

It's being confirmed that I'm an introvert.  Between my wife, the doggo, occasionally helping an elderly neighbor, and checking in on a couple of forums, I'm getting all the social interaction I could possibly want. 

A couple of my wife's sisters married super-extroverts, and they both seem to be getting a little nuts even though they're still working.  One is super-handy, so his house would soon be fixed up and gadgetified beyond belief if he couldn't work.  But the other is a big time sports fan and the lack of sports, and the inability to get together and talk sports, has been rough on him.

But I have to admit that it's easier on us because we retired a few years back.  I can only imagine the impending doom stress for people who are out of work and who haven't been able to qualify for any of the programs.  In that case, I'd probably be going nuts.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: radon222 on April 22, 2020, 11:54:42 AM
[url]http://web.archive.org/web/20200405061401/https://medium.com/@agaiziunas/covid-19-had-us-all-fooled-but-now-we-might-have-finally-found-its-secret-91182386efcb[/url] ([url]http://web.archive.org/web/20200405061401/https://medium.com/@agaiziunas/covid-19-had-us-all-fooled-but-now-we-might-have-finally-found-its-secret-91182386efcb[/url])

New insight on how the disease kills.  May lead to better treatment plans as it doesn’t attack the lungs the way we presumed.


That could make sense. Or not.  You know what is missing from that article?  There aren't any citations for source information.  Not a single one.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 22, 2020, 11:55:15 AM

But I have to admit that it's easier on us because we retired a few years back.  I can only imagine the impending doom stress for people who are out of work and who haven't been able to qualify for any of the programs.  In that case, I'd probably be going nuts.

suicide rates are up.
suicide trauma / help-line calls are up.

It's a thing. :(
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 22, 2020, 11:56:20 AM
[url]http://web.archive.org/web/20200405061401/https://medium.com/@agaiziunas/covid-19-had-us-all-fooled-but-now-we-might-have-finally-found-its-secret-91182386efcb[/url] ([url]http://web.archive.org/web/20200405061401/https://medium.com/@agaiziunas/covid-19-had-us-all-fooled-but-now-we-might-have-finally-found-its-secret-91182386efcb[/url])

New insight on how the disease kills.  May lead to better treatment plans as it doesn’t attack the lungs the way we presumed.


That could make sense. Or not.  You know what is missing from that article?  There aren't any citations for source information.  Not a single one.


Opinion: Every article on Medium is 99.9% opinion with an occasional "I heard it from a friend" factoid somewhere near it.

Consider medium for infotainment, and get your hard facts elsewhere.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Eh2zed on April 22, 2020, 01:17:46 PM
The largest Canadian bank has one particular investment arm that handles just over $1 billion in accounts. (not big but not insignificant) Their Christmas party was December 12th. At that party they were all discussing reports they were getting from their Hong Kong people. Apparently they were virtually screaming at them about their contacts in Wuhan that the government was cremating bodies by the thousands and that the bank should pay attention.
If a public company was getting this info then where was the Intelligence Community? I don't believe that they didn't know. How do you not notice 5 MILLION people fleeing 1 city?
They knew. DECEMBER 12th.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 22, 2020, 01:32:45 PM
FWIW, and I assume Business Insider is yet another - what's the phrase? Liberal fake news rag...? Anyway, here's this:

https://www.businessinsider.com/air-conditioning-spread-coronavirus-restaurant-can-service-industry-open-again-2020-4 (https://www.businessinsider.com/air-conditioning-spread-coronavirus-restaurant-can-service-industry-open-again-2020-4)

Quote
Three seemingly healthy families were struck by COVID-19 in January after dining at neighboring tables in a windowless restaurant in Guangzhou, China.

Researchers studying the case think that the restaurant's air-conditioner blew the viral droplets of one person who was asymptomatic farther than they might have normally gone. Nine other people across the three families later got sick.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 22, 2020, 01:45:20 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVs5AyjzwRM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVs5AyjzwRM)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 22, 2020, 01:54:44 PM
Well, it seems the Yurpeen version is nastier than the Mericun version. I would post a link to the paper but, frankly m'dear, I couldn't be arsed. Be thankful, if this is the case, that incompetent leadership is slightly less of a problem now.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 22, 2020, 01:56:41 PM
Well, it seems the Yurpeen version is nastier than the Mericun version. I would post a link to the paper but, frankly m'dear, I couldn't be arsed. Be thankful, if this is the case, that incompetent leadership is slightly less of a problem now.

wut
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on April 22, 2020, 02:00:21 PM
Well, it seems the Yurpeen version is nastier than the Mericun version. I would post a link to the paper but, frankly m'dear, I couldn't be arsed. Be thankful, if this is the case, that incompetent leadership is slightly less of a problem now.

The Daily Mail and The Sun are reporting this. Not exactly shining examples of journalism, but... eh. At least the Europeans are taking this more seriously than some other countries.

The Sun (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11444268/coronavirus-mutated-30-times-deadlier-strain-europe/)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 22, 2020, 02:10:33 PM
Sure has been quiet in here today.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on April 22, 2020, 03:20:47 PM
I made a resolution this morning not to post anything today.    F that!


If it’s any consolation, looks like Chinese investors got slammed today. 

“Although trading in Bank of China’s products were theoretically scheduled to end at 10 a.m. Eastern time Monday, when May crude futures were still trading above $0, the absence of demand and liquidity may have led to these oil funds taking losses when the prices of the crude contracts fell and then slid deeper into negative territory.

Angry retail investors reported they had lost all their principal, while some even said they now owed money to Bank of China, even though investors are prohibited from borrowing money to buy the funds, according to Chinese social-media posts.”

Do I need to post a link to the source?   Seems like we’re getting pretty loose around here citing references to verifiable sources. 
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: maddjack on April 22, 2020, 05:55:53 PM
I know that the lock down has made it harder for the wife and I to deal with all the death in our lives. Last Friday was the first one in many weeks that didn't start with a fracked up phone call about something bad. Yesterday she was in a cry a thon , I had a pretty bad day too. Thankfully today wasn't too bad,but this sucky weather isn't helping.
She works in a drug/ alcohol ,mental health facility, and they are busy. Thankfully her job is at home ( financial end) but theres a ton more folks coming it.
I always heard the term culture shock,never did I imagine this shit.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 22, 2020, 07:28:39 PM
I know that the lock down has made it harder for the wife and I to deal with all the death in our lives. Last Friday was the first one in many weeks that didn't start with a fracked up phone call about something bad. Yesterday she was in a cry a thon , I had a pretty bad day too. Thankfully today wasn't too bad,but this sucky weather isn't helping.
She works in a drug/ alcohol ,mental health facility, and they are busy. Thankfully her job is at home ( financial end) but theres a ton more folks coming it.
I always heard the term culture shock,never did I imagine this shit.

(( distanced man hug ))

I got nothing, man. Just... sympathy. Sorry. :\
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 22, 2020, 07:29:27 PM
On the ... upside...? :csm:

Vegas is apparently being volunteered as a study group for how quickly a captive population can be wiped out. :)

https://theslot.jezebel.com/las-vegas-mayor-offers-up-residents-as-coronavirus-sacr-1843008076
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 22, 2020, 07:34:17 PM
Also, if you'll pardon my stooping to vernacular for a moment, this stupid twat, with her specious, ill-informed, silly arguments....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVR1V_twFEU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVR1V_twFEU)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: OHScot on April 22, 2020, 07:59:47 PM
Sure has been quiet in here today.

Says the guy who closes threads and runs off people who post contrary opinions.

Yeah the FZ1 guy was kind of a dick.  But I kind of enjoyed his ranting and he made some points.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 22, 2020, 10:21:56 PM
And in the continuing context of running off half cocked to make decisions on the future of humanity without having all the information...

Now with more stroke.

The longer we live with this thing out in the wild, the scarier it gets. :\

** edited to fix previously incorrect link **

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/22/health/strokes-coronavirus-young-adults/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/22/health/strokes-coronavirus-young-adults/index.html)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 22, 2020, 10:39:41 PM
On the ... upside...? :csm:

Vegas is apparently being volunteered as a study group for how quickly a captive population can be wiped out. :)

https://theslot.jezebel.com/las-vegas-mayor-offers-up-residents-as-coronavirus-sacr-1843008076 (https://theslot.jezebel.com/las-vegas-mayor-offers-up-residents-as-coronavirus-sacr-1843008076)

Fortunately, saner opinions exist...

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/us-coronavirus-update-04-22-20/h_8ec4b00ac32e2e4bd7e4ce5d6422fa4f (https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/us-coronavirus-update-04-22-20/h_8ec4b00ac32e2e4bd7e4ce5d6422fa4f)

Quote
The largest union representing Las Vegas casino workers is condemning the mayor’s call for those businesses to reopen immediately.

“The mayor’s statements are outrageous considering essential frontline workers have been dealing with the consequences of this crisis firsthand," Geoconda Argüello-Kline, who is with the Culinary Workers Union Local 226, said in a written statement.
Some context: Las Vegas Mayor Carolyn Goodman said on CNN today that businesses — including casinos — should reopen, but offered no guidance on how to do it safely.

“They better figure it out. That’s their job,” Goodman said. “That’s not the mayor’s job.”

The Culinary Union says it supports Gov. Steve Sisolak’s decision to keep casinos closed, adding, “The Culinary Union is majority women and people of color, and we are not expendable.”

Goodman does not have jurisdiction over the major casinos on The Strip, which are located outside of the Las Vegas city limits and are governed by Clark County.

Commissioner Michael Naft wrote on Twitter that “[Mayor Goodman’s] defiance of Gov. Sisolak’s stay-at-home order is reckless and dangerous.”

The Nevada Gaming Control Board says it is not yet safe for the state’s casinos to reopen.

“According to Governor Sisolak’s medical advisory team, the data related to the spread of COVID-19 does not support the reopening of gaming establishments in Nevada at this time,” the board says in a written statement.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 22, 2020, 10:45:13 PM
*** edited out ***
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 23, 2020, 01:52:14 AM
Sure has been quiet in here today.

Says the guy who closes threads and runs off people who post contrary opinions.

Yeah the FZ1 guy was kind of a dick.  But I kind of enjoyed his ranting and he made some points.

Well don't worry, he'll be back in a few hours and he'll probably be pissed. You two can get together and rant about how much I suck.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on April 23, 2020, 07:42:28 AM
On the ... upside...? :csm:

Vegas is apparently being volunteered as a study group for how quickly a captive population can be wiped out. :)

https://theslot.jezebel.com/las-vegas-mayor-offers-up-residents-as-coronavirus-sacr-1843008076 (https://theslot.jezebel.com/las-vegas-mayor-offers-up-residents-as-coronavirus-sacr-1843008076)

Fortunately, saner opinions exist...

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/us-coronavirus-update-04-22-20/h_8ec4b00ac32e2e4bd7e4ce5d6422fa4f (https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/us-coronavirus-update-04-22-20/h_8ec4b00ac32e2e4bd7e4ce5d6422fa4f)

Quote
The largest union representing Las Vegas casino workers is condemning the mayor’s call for those businesses to reopen immediately.

“The mayor’s statements are outrageous considering essential frontline workers have been dealing with the consequences of this crisis firsthand," Geoconda Argüello-Kline, who is with the Culinary Workers Union Local 226, said in a written statement.
Some context: Las Vegas Mayor Carolyn Goodman said on CNN today that businesses — including casinos — should reopen, but offered no guidance on how to do it safely.

“They better figure it out. That’s their job,” Goodman said. “That’s not the mayor’s job.”

The Culinary Union says it supports Gov. Steve Sisolak’s decision to keep casinos closed, adding, “The Culinary Union is majority women and people of color, and we are not expendable.”

Goodman does not have jurisdiction over the major casinos on The Strip, which are located outside of the Las Vegas city limits and are governed by Clark County.

Commissioner Michael Naft wrote on Twitter that “[Mayor Goodman’s] defiance of Gov. Sisolak’s stay-at-home order is reckless and dangerous.”

The Nevada Gaming Control Board says it is not yet safe for the state’s casinos to reopen.

“According to Governor Sisolak’s medical advisory team, the data related to the spread of COVID-19 does not support the reopening of gaming establishments in Nevada at this time,” the board says in a written statement.

Whatdoyamean?  This will be most excellent case study of free market choice versus social capitalism.

This will provide a real data in a real life setting. 

Plus it’s happening far away (from where I live).   

My guess is half the workers will show up and far fewer visitors.  Who needs online casinos?  This is real-life gambling with real lives.

Businesses will have the opportunity to develop innovative social distancing controls and we’ll get to see which ones are most effective.   

We’ll get to see if the number of Corona deaths drop off dramatically after 8 days in an uncontrolled setting just the same as in a society that implements rigorous social controls. 

This is a tremendous undertaking.  Exactly what needs to be done to reopen the economy quickly. 

While I stay inside and hide.   

It’s that subtle touch of cynicism that always gets me into trouble.   :facepalm:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Vulcanbill on April 23, 2020, 07:54:23 AM
On the ... upside...? :csm:

Vegas is apparently being volunteered as a study group for how quickly a captive population can be wiped out. :)

https://theslot.jezebel.com/las-vegas-mayor-offers-up-residents-as-coronavirus-sacr-1843008076 (https://theslot.jezebel.com/las-vegas-mayor-offers-up-residents-as-coronavirus-sacr-1843008076)

Fortunately, saner opinions exist...

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/us-coronavirus-update-04-22-20/h_8ec4b00ac32e2e4bd7e4ce5d6422fa4f (https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/us-coronavirus-update-04-22-20/h_8ec4b00ac32e2e4bd7e4ce5d6422fa4f)

Quote
The largest union representing Las Vegas casino workers is condemning the mayor’s call for those businesses to reopen immediately.

“The mayor’s statements are outrageous considering essential frontline workers have been dealing with the consequences of this crisis firsthand," Geoconda Argüello-Kline, who is with the Culinary Workers Union Local 226, said in a written statement.
Some context: Las Vegas Mayor Carolyn Goodman said on CNN today that businesses — including casinos — should reopen, but offered no guidance on how to do it safely.

“They better figure it out. That’s their job,” Goodman said. “That’s not the mayor’s job.”

The Culinary Union says it supports Gov. Steve Sisolak’s decision to keep casinos closed, adding, “The Culinary Union is majority women and people of color, and we are not expendable.”

Goodman does not have jurisdiction over the major casinos on The Strip, which are located outside of the Las Vegas city limits and are governed by Clark County.

Commissioner Michael Naft wrote on Twitter that “[Mayor Goodman’s] defiance of Gov. Sisolak’s stay-at-home order is reckless and dangerous.”

The Nevada Gaming Control Board says it is not yet safe for the state’s casinos to reopen.

“According to Governor Sisolak’s medical advisory team, the data related to the spread of COVID-19 does not support the reopening of gaming establishments in Nevada at this time,” the board says in a written statement.

Whatdoyamean?  This will be most excellent case study of free market choice versus social capitalism.

This will provide a real data in a real life setting. 

Plus it’s happening far away (from where I live).   

My guess is half the workers will show up and far fewer visitors.  Who needs online casinos?  This is real-life gambling with real lives.

Businesses will have the opportunity to develop innovative social distancing controls and we’ll get to see which ones are most effective.   

We’ll get to see if the number of Corona deaths drop off dramatically after 8 days in an uncontrolled setting just the same as in a society that implements rigorous social controls. 

This is a tremendous undertaking.  Exactly what needs to be done to reopen the economy quickly. 

While I stay inside and hide.   

It’s that subtle touch of cynicism that always gets me into trouble.   :facepalm:

subtle

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Vulcanbill on April 23, 2020, 07:58:18 AM
Also, if you'll pardon my stooping to vernacular for a moment, this stupid twat, with her specious, ill-informed, silly arguments....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVR1V_twFEU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVR1V_twFEU)

I made it a minute and a half into that prepositional phrase hell before I had to bail. 
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: radon222 on April 23, 2020, 08:01:17 AM
On the ... upside...? :csm:

Vegas is apparently being volunteered as a study group for how quickly a captive population can be wiped out. :)

https://theslot.jezebel.com/las-vegas-mayor-offers-up-residents-as-coronavirus-sacr-1843008076 (https://theslot.jezebel.com/las-vegas-mayor-offers-up-residents-as-coronavirus-sacr-1843008076)

Fortunately, saner opinions exist...

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/us-coronavirus-update-04-22-20/h_8ec4b00ac32e2e4bd7e4ce5d6422fa4f (https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/us-coronavirus-update-04-22-20/h_8ec4b00ac32e2e4bd7e4ce5d6422fa4f)

Quote
The largest union representing Las Vegas casino workers is condemning the mayor’s call for those businesses to reopen immediately.

“The mayor’s statements are outrageous considering essential frontline workers have been dealing with the consequences of this crisis firsthand," Geoconda Argüello-Kline, who is with the Culinary Workers Union Local 226, said in a written statement.
Some context: Las Vegas Mayor Carolyn Goodman said on CNN today that businesses — including casinos — should reopen, but offered no guidance on how to do it safely.

“They better figure it out. That’s their job,” Goodman said. “That’s not the mayor’s job.”

The Culinary Union says it supports Gov. Steve Sisolak’s decision to keep casinos closed, adding, “The Culinary Union is majority women and people of color, and we are not expendable.”

Goodman does not have jurisdiction over the major casinos on The Strip, which are located outside of the Las Vegas city limits and are governed by Clark County.

Commissioner Michael Naft wrote on Twitter that “[Mayor Goodman’s] defiance of Gov. Sisolak’s stay-at-home order is reckless and dangerous.”

The Nevada Gaming Control Board says it is not yet safe for the state’s casinos to reopen.

“According to Governor Sisolak’s medical advisory team, the data related to the spread of COVID-19 does not support the reopening of gaming establishments in Nevada at this time,” the board says in a written statement.


But what about all those poor professional gamblers (https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/casinos-gaming/professional-gamblers-qualify-for-nevada-unemployment-amid-crisis-2001863/) who've been forced to file for unemployment.  They have families to feed too ya know! 

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 23, 2020, 08:11:04 AM
Free ChrisFZ1!!! Free ChrisFZ1!!! Free Chr.... Oh. Hello!  :twofinger:

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 23, 2020, 08:13:19 AM

This is a tremendous undertaking.  Exactly what needs to be done to reopen the economy quickly. 

While I stay inside and hide.   

It’s that subtle touch of cynicism that always gets me into trouble.   :facepalm:

RIGHT?

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 23, 2020, 08:19:05 AM
https://www.newsweek.com/michigan-health-care-system-furloughs-nearly-2500-employees-coronavirus-dominates-services-1499308 (https://www.newsweek.com/michigan-health-care-system-furloughs-nearly-2500-employees-coronavirus-dominates-services-1499308)

"Nearly 2,500 employees at one of Michigan's largest health care systems learned on Tuesday they would be furloughed, due to particularly dire financial circumstances related to the novel coronavirus outbreak."
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on April 23, 2020, 08:35:07 AM
<pulls out lawn chair, cracks open a beer>

:popcorn:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 23, 2020, 08:37:58 AM
<pulls out lawn chair, cracks open a beer>

:popcorn:

Pulls up along side and lights a cigar, tossing the match in to a pile of dry leaves.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 23, 2020, 08:42:24 AM
<pulls out lawn chair, cracks open a beer>

:popcorn:

Pulls up along side and lights a cigar, tossing the match in to a pile of dry leaves.

Don't you have anything better to do, like change someone's avatar, continue your search for a free motorcycle, or post pictures of your stupid she-shed?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on April 23, 2020, 08:44:52 AM
<pulls out lawn chair, cracks open a beer>

:popcorn:

Pulls up along side and lights a cigar, tossing the match in to a pile of dry leaves.

Coffee?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 23, 2020, 08:46:36 AM
<pulls out lawn chair, cracks open a beer>

 :popcorn:

Pulls up along side and lights a cigar, tossing the match in to a pile of dry leaves.

Coffee?

Please.


Fuentes?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: OHScot on April 23, 2020, 08:46:51 AM

Hey try to make this last a little while.  Subtle will work as well as direct.


Don't you have anything better to do, like change someone's avatar, continue your search for a free motorcycle, or post pictures of your stupid she-shed?
[/quote]
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on April 23, 2020, 08:55:19 AM
<pulls out lawn chair, cracks open a beer>

 :popcorn:

Pulls up along side and lights a cigar, tossing the match in to a pile of dry leaves.

Coffee?

Please.


Fuentes?

Peet's. Arabian Mocha Java.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 23, 2020, 08:56:34 AM
<pulls out lawn chair, cracks open a beer>

 :popcorn:

Pulls up along side and lights a cigar, tossing the match in to a pile of dry leaves.

Coffee?

Please.


Fuentes?

Peet's. Arabian Mocha Java.

Is that anything like a PBR? (Fuentes is a good cigar)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: jadziadax8 on April 23, 2020, 08:57:09 AM
<pulls out lawn chair, cracks open a beer>

:popcorn:

Pulls up along side and lights a cigar, tossing the match in to a pile of dry leaves.

Don't you have anything better to do, like change someone's avatar, continue your search for a free motorcycle, or post pictures of your stupid she-shed?

Dude, I'm fucking sick of you.  The only thing you've done since coming here is troll everyone else.  We have two rules here - don't be a dick and no politics or religion.  You have been breaking that first one left and right and dancing damn near close to the 2nd.  As far as I'm concerned you either need to STFU or GTFO.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 23, 2020, 08:59:10 AM
As far as I'm concerned you either need to STFU or GTFO.

Edited for accuracy and brevity.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 23, 2020, 09:04:05 AM
"Dude, I'm fucking sick of you."

I don't care.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 23, 2020, 09:05:42 AM

Hey try to make this last a little while.  Subtle will work as well as direct.


Don't you have anything better to do, like change someone's avatar, continue your search for a free motorcycle, or post pictures of your stupid she-shed?
[/quote]

That's relatively subtle considering what I really think.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 23, 2020, 09:08:14 AM
That's relatively subtle considering what I really think.

I wish I'd followed through on my love of psychology rather than eventually going into I.T. You're almost as publishable as my ex and Trump. (not political - just commenting on the interesting mental and emotional state of a public figure)

Like, seriously, if you're so full of disdain for everyone, why bother? Other than for the attention and feeding on others' anger over your clearly trite and provocative stances on things...?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 23, 2020, 09:09:51 AM
https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/mania/psychiatric-price-steroid-abuse (https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/mania/psychiatric-price-steroid-abuse)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 23, 2020, 09:10:11 AM
Chill dude, people far smarter than you are opening things up.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: jadziadax8 on April 23, 2020, 09:10:35 AM
"Dude, I'm fucking sick of you."

I don't care.

 :twofinger:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: jadziadax8 on April 23, 2020, 09:11:11 AM
Chill dude, people far smarter than you are opening things up.

You're only smarter than chornbe if thinking with your muscles counts.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 23, 2020, 09:13:14 AM
Chill dude, people far smarter than you are opening things up.

There are LOTS of people smarter than me.

There are people opening things up.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 23, 2020, 09:13:49 AM
Chill dude, people far smarter than you are opening things up.

You're only smarter than chornbe if thinking with your muscles counts.

To be fair, my quads are exceptional. They had a great start, and I had to work hard after my knee replacements. :D
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 23, 2020, 09:16:25 AM
Just to be clear, when this thread is locked and put away for good, it wasn't me.


Have a swell day, keep those cards and letters coming.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: jadziadax8 on April 23, 2020, 09:16:42 AM
Chill dude, people far smarter than you are opening things up.

You're only smarter than chornbe if thinking with your muscles counts.

To be fair, my quads are exceptional. They had a great start, and I had to work hard after my knee replacements. :D

Speaking of which, it’s leg day for me now.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 23, 2020, 09:18:10 AM
IN BEFORE THE LO... oh wait.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 23, 2020, 09:20:44 AM
Chill dude, people far smarter than you are opening things up.

You're only smarter than chornbe if thinking with your muscles counts.

Sweet cheeks, I have a live-in significant other and she's a sweetheart. No touching.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: jadziadax8 on April 23, 2020, 09:24:45 AM
You seriously think I would be into you? Dream on.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on April 23, 2020, 09:25:59 AM
<pulls out lawn chair, cracks open a beer>

 :popcorn:

Pulls up along side and lights a cigar, tossing the match in to a pile of dry leaves.

Coffee?

Please.


Fuentes?

Peet's. Arabian Mocha Java.

+ Irish Whiskey.   I’d give up my bottle of Writer’s Tears to get in on this.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 23, 2020, 09:27:10 AM
"There are LOTS of people smarter than me."

Yup.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 23, 2020, 09:28:01 AM
<pulls out lawn chair, cracks open a beer>

 :popcorn:

Pulls up along side and lights a cigar, tossing the match in to a pile of dry leaves.

Coffee?

Please.


Fuentes?

Peet's. Arabian Mocha Java.

+ Irish Whiskey.   I’d give up my bottle of Writer’s Tears to get in on this.

Did you bring any cheese?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 23, 2020, 09:29:19 AM
Chill dude, people far smarter than you are opening things up.

You're only smarter than chornbe if thinking with your muscles counts.

Sweet cheeks, I have a live-in significant other and she's a sweetheart. No touching.

oh! Oh, this gets better. My wife has a stalker like you.
A woman must interact on your terms, or you fashion your terms around her.
Oh goodness.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on April 23, 2020, 09:29:40 AM
You guys gotta stop watching and reading all this crap.  Too many talking heads, not enough info is actually known about this thing, too much BS all the way around, WAY too many chances for the blood pressure to rise.  I mean the conversation is good, but getting fired up about it?  Life's too short to spend time worrying about things you can't control.

I gotta admit, I was PISSED about some of the crazy lockdown orders in Michigan during the second round, but I'm dealing with it.  Getting outdoors, doing some Turkey hunting, running, and building useless crap that we really don't need but seems like a good idea at the time.

Build something.  Get out, but by all means stop perseverating on this thing!   I pretty much quit watching all news- I get it here more than any place else, and that's saying something!  I'm certainly not saying I'm doing it right, but I do continue to take care of my own and those around me.   :lol:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 23, 2020, 09:30:50 AM
perseverating

I love that word. It doesn't get nearly enough play.  :inlove:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 23, 2020, 09:39:11 AM
Chill dude, people far smarter than you are opening things up.

You're only smarter than chornbe if thinking with your muscles counts.

Sweet cheeks, I have a live-in significant other and she's a sweetheart. No touching.

oh! Oh, this gets better. My wife has a stalker like you.
A woman must interact on your terms, or you fashion your terms around her.
Oh goodness.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login


As you've stated that you wish you had a better education in psychology, Google psychological projection and do some reading.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on April 23, 2020, 09:39:38 AM
perseverating

I love that word. It doesn't get nearly enough play.  :inlove:

(me too!)   :bigok:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on April 23, 2020, 09:47:35 AM
I hate putting this stoopid thing on, but here we go:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login



This has been a great thread.  There have been strong, often contrasting opinions with lots of passion, heart, knowledge, and sometimes just tomfoolery (I got NO reactions about my "making man love" comment...) in them. 

Let's keep it up.  Keep this thing on the rails.  I don't want to ban people or nuke posts- that crap sucks, but we need to treat people with respect, even when we disagree with them.  Rise above, and let's keep this thing going.

Private warnings have been issued, this is the public one.  You all kick ass.  Let's keep this thing above board.  I believe its good to have a thread here about this thing- let's face it, we are ALL dealing with it in one way or another, with our different ideals and opinions.

Treat people with disrespect and disdain, and you and your posts will not last.

Are we all up for happy hour tomorrow night?   :inlove:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 23, 2020, 09:59:20 AM
Are we all up for happy hour tomorrow night?   :inlove:

I have one at 4pm eastern for work. Our morning meeting was moved to then for a happy hour, five minutes of work talk, catch up and bullshit session. I'll be well lubed to roll right into one here if we can make one happen.

What's the video tech of choice here, Zoom?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on April 23, 2020, 10:11:53 AM
Are we all up for happy hour tomorrow night?   :inlove:

I have one at 4pm eastern for work. Our morning meeting was moved to then for a happy hour, five minutes of work talk, catch up and bullshit session. I'll be well lubed to roll right into one here if we can make one happen.

What's the video tech of choice here, Zoom?

Yep!  Been Zooming.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on April 23, 2020, 10:30:08 AM
You guys gotta stop watching and reading all this crap.  Too many talking heads, not enough info is actually known about this thing, too much BS all the way around, WAY too many chances for the blood pressure to rise.  I mean the conversation is good, but getting fired up about it?  Life's too short to spend time worrying about things you can't control.

I gotta admit, I was PISSED about some of the crazy lockdown orders in Michigan during the second round, but I'm dealing with it.  Getting outdoors, doing some Turkey hunting, running, and building useless crap that we really don't need but seems like a good idea at the time.

Build something.  Get out, but by all means stop perseverating on this thing!   I pretty much quit watching all news- I get it here more than any place else, and that's saying something!  I'm certainly not saying I'm doing it right, but I do continue to take care of my own and those around me.   :lol:

This.  To a certain extent.   

I’m avoiding the mainstream single story news channels.  Things will open up again sooner or later.  The immediate goal should be to build a supply of PPE and social measures that allow us to safely return to some semblance of normal. And the new normal is going to be a little different in center state PA than here in SE PA or in center city Philadelphia. 

But we need to level the playing field for our health care practitioners and medical workers.   
Some of these folks are getting laid off while others haven’t seen their families for weeks.
That’s just not right.

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on April 23, 2020, 10:37:14 AM
I hate putting this stoopid thing on, but here we go:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login



I have to admit, I was a little concerned what the text might be when I saw that it was a red hat  :couch:

As far as I'm concerned, I am more than happy with how the government has taken care of things over here (always room for improvement, but that's life). I'll just sit here and watch the circus that continues to unfold across the pond.  :popcorn: I wish you all the best.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: mr.awesome on April 23, 2020, 10:39:04 AM
You guys gotta stop watching and reading all this crap.  Too many talking heads, not enough info is actually known about this thing, too much BS all the way around, WAY too many chances for the blood pressure to rise.  I mean the conversation is good, but getting fired up about it?  Life's too short to spend time worrying about things you can't control.

I gotta admit, I was PISSED about some of the crazy lockdown orders in Michigan during the second round, but I'm dealing with it.  Getting outdoors, doing some Turkey hunting, running, and building useless crap that we really don't need but seems like a good idea at the time.

Build something.  Get out, but by all means stop perseverating on this thing!   I pretty much quit watching all news- I get it here more than any place else, and that's saying something!  I'm certainly not saying I'm doing it right, but I do continue to take care of my own and those around me.   :lol:

This.  To a certain extent.   

I’m avoiding the mainstream single story news channels.  Things will open up again sooner or later.  The immediate goal should be to build a supply of PPE and social measures that allow us to safely return to some semblance of normal. And the new normal is going to be a little different in center state PA than here in SE PA or in center city Philadelphia. 

But we need to level the playing field for our health care practitioners and medical workers.   
Some of these folks are getting laid off while others haven’t seen their families for weeks.
That’s just not right.

https://youtu.be/gDXeLmWGIu8   ;D
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 23, 2020, 10:39:33 AM
I'm really surprised there hasn't been more reallocation of people - especially nurses and relief care - from slower areas to the harder-hit areas like NYC, etc. Hotels are available for emergency workers - they're doing that in the limited cases of moving people around and/or having to isolate workers away from their families and such. Apparently Michigan has enough on furlough to help the dearth of available staff in other places - NYC (and other areas) should temp them in.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 23, 2020, 10:42:59 AM
I'll just sit here and watch the circus that continues to unfold across the pond.  :popcorn: I wish you all the best.

Oh, we're all screwed. It's all a matter of mitigation and survivability now. Fortunately, it's all still (mostly) civil.

Once the *real* scarcities set in, THEN it'll be interesting. Maybe some of those haircut-needing protesting preppers will finally get to use their bunkers.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: mr.awesome on April 23, 2020, 10:46:29 AM
I'm really surprised there hasn't been more reallocation of people - especially nurses and relief care - from slower areas to the harder-hit areas like NYC, etc. Hotels are available for emergency workers - they're doing that in the limited cases of moving people around and/or having to isolate workers away from their families and such. Apparently Michigan has enough on furlough to help the dearth of available staff in other places - NYC (and other areas) should temp them in.

They built a 1000 bed temporary hospital here in Detroit at the TCF conference center (where they hold the North American International Auto Show). The latest figures i can find are there are only 16 patients. Then they built another 250 bed facility at the Suburban event center. I don't think there is anybody in there. Then they closed one of the actual Beaumont hospitals. Just doesn't make sense.  :headscratch:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on April 23, 2020, 10:50:22 AM
I'll just sit here and watch the circus that continues to unfold across the pond.  :popcorn: I wish you all the best.

Oh, we're all screwed. It's all a matter of mitigation and survivability now. Fortunately, it's all still (mostly) civil.

Once the *real* scarcities set in, THEN it'll be interesting. Maybe some of those haircut-needing protesting preppers will finally get to use their bunkers.

One thing I can tell you- if the shit really does hit the fan, those are the people that are going to survive and rebuild.  The ones who are cowering in their basements right now, as well as most of the government, are going to be done.  They have no skill set that makes them valuable.  Of course we'll need ditch diggers too.   :bigok:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on April 23, 2020, 10:51:26 AM
They built a 1000 bed temporary hospital here in Detroit at the TCF conference center (where they hold the North American International Auto Show). The latest figures i can find are there are only 16 patients. Then they built another 250 bed facility at the Suburban event center. I don't think there is anybody in there. Then they closed one of the actual Beaumont hospitals. Just doesn't make sense.  :headscratch:

That sounds like if you did a little digging, it would come up as where the funding comes from. Temporary hospitals are funded by the US government (at least that's what I understand). But a standard hospital has a completely different source of funding.

It makes no sense to put the money into temporary facilities instead of putting them into existing facilities, but that's where the complexities of politics and accounting come into it.  :shrug:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: radon222 on April 23, 2020, 10:52:47 AM
I'm really surprised there hasn't been more reallocation of people - especially nurses and relief care - from slower areas to the harder-hit areas like NYC, etc. Hotels are available for emergency workers - they're doing that in the limited cases of moving people around and/or having to isolate workers away from their families and such. Apparently Michigan has enough on furlough to help the dearth of available staff in other places - NYC (and other areas) should temp them in.

My wife is a nurse (LPN) and she's had quite a few hiring agencies send stuff through her Inbox offering big money for RN's to do temp work in the high impact areas.  While the inventory of nurses is there, a lot still don't want to take the risk.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on April 23, 2020, 10:53:38 AM
One thing I can tell you- if the shit really does hit the fan, those are the people that are going to survive and rebuild.  The ones who are cowering in their basements right now, as well as most of the government, are going to be done.  They have no skill set that makes them valuable.  Of course we'll need ditch diggers too.   :bigok:

I think that you just took the scenario a *tad* further than expected...
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 23, 2020, 10:59:22 AM
Seven weeks ago, we all accepted the shuttering of our economy to "flatten the curve". We all recall this, yes? See the popular graph attached. The purposeful lockdown of the economy was to prevent our hospitals from being overrun by covid patients.

Lacking social isolation, we could have overrun our healthcare systems, but the pandemic would have been over sooner. With social isolation, the pandemic curve would be flattened, albeit the pandemic would continue longer. We all understood this a month ago.

Now, the danger of overwhelming our healthcare system has passed. That has more than been achieved. Other than a few hotspots it never even came close.

This is not to say that we should all run out and lick doorknobs. We should all behave responsibly and wear masks, wash our hands, and social distance because that is the right thing to do. Regardless, the time is now for some of you and Governors like Whitmer to STFU and GTFOOTW.  Society will adapt and carry on.

 There is nothing that requires you to open your business, go ride, or even go outside. You may choose to self-isolate to your heart’s content. The rest of us will get on with our lives.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: stevent on April 23, 2020, 10:59:29 AM
Wow, this is the first time I've read any of these. It's almost as good as facebook.

In all honesty the only impact I've seen from corvid is they shut down construction on my house. My back's been so fucked up I wouldn't be going out anywhere anyway, other than staggering into work every day. The only reason I'm doing that is because I don't want to effect my credit rating and income right in the middle of buying a house.

Other than shooting BB guns with the grandkids and watching TV my focus has narrowed down to getting from the bedroom to the kitchen to the back porch.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cookie on April 23, 2020, 11:00:20 AM
One thing I can tell you- if the shit really does hit the fan, those are the people that are going to survive and rebuild.  The ones who are cowering in their basements right now, as well as most of the government, are going to be done.  They have no skill set that makes them valuable.  Of course we'll need ditch diggers too.   :bigok:

I think that you just took the scenario a *tad* further than expected...


A tad. Speculating a second and possibly third wave, each being progressively worse maybe we'd experience a much darker scenario but if we continue to do our part to not hurt anyone else, I wouldn't think it would come to that. I agree that some areas, areas such as yours for instance, are beyond the pale in regards to strictness and may seem as though your rights are in fact being infringed upon. Believe me, I get it but I don't think we need to break out the muskets just yet.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cablebandit on April 23, 2020, 11:11:29 AM
We should all behave responsibly and wear masks, wash our hands, and social distance because that is the right thing to do.

Our employer ordered a bunch of cloth masks so returning employees can comply with our state Fuhrer's guidelines.

The shipment was confiscated by the Feds.   :shrug:


Oh well, I can do my job from home.  In my perfect world I would never go back to the office.  So, they'll probably demand I come back as soon as possible.   >:(
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on April 23, 2020, 11:28:59 AM
One thing I can tell you- if the shit really does hit the fan, those are the people that are going to survive and rebuild.  The ones who are cowering in their basements right now, as well as most of the government, are going to be done.  They have no skill set that makes them valuable.  Of course we'll need ditch diggers too.   :bigok:

I think that you just took the scenario a *tad* further than expected...

 :lol:  It's what I do.  Did you miss my man love comment earlier?   :bigsmile:

Seven weeks ago, we all accepted the shuttering of our economy to "flatten the curve". We all recall this, yes? See the popular graph attached. The purposeful lockdown of the economy was to prevent our hospitals from being overrun by covid patients.

Lacking social isolation, we could have overrun our healthcare systems, but the pandemic would have been over sooner. With social isolation, the pandemic curve would be flattened, albeit the pandemic would continue longer. We all understood this a month ago.

Now, the danger of overwhelming our healthcare system has passed. That has more than been achieved. Other than a few hotspots it never even came close.

This is not to say that we should all run out and lick doorknobs. We should all behave responsibly and wear masks, wash our hands, and social distance because that is the right thing to do. Regardless, the time is now for some of you and Governors like Whitmer to STFU and GTFOOTW.  Society will adapt and carry on.

 There is nothing that requires you to open your business, go ride, or even go outside. You may choose to self-isolate to your heart’s content. The rest of us will get on with our lives.

I think this is a pretty common-sense approach.  On May 1 our governor (Whitmer) is going to adjust things again.  I foresee opening up the hospitals to other surgeries so our doctors and nurses can get back to work, I forsee opening up lawn care and landscape businesses, I foresee opening up growers to sell their wares.  I can't imagine movie theaters and restaurants will be opening yet (many are doing a *decent* (not like before, but surviving thanks to community support) business), and things like that.  I really hope she opens up using a motorized boat again.

On a personal note my own prostate surgery is waiting on this thing as well.  I'm probably down on the list since mine isn't critical, but it would be nice to get that on the books.  After virtual meeting with two docs they both mentioned that local hospitals are beginning to make plans to open up to more surgeries assuming that Whitmer will allow them to after May 1.

It DOES NOT need to look the same for every state, nor every place in every state.  IMO any Governor worth their salt will stop blanket restrictions and begin looking at regional restrictions.  Of course that takes more work...
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: stevent on April 23, 2020, 12:55:25 PM
I have a hard time saying anything nice about our Governor between his failed presidential bid, blanket shutdown of the state with necessary exceptions, and general dictator like proclamations.
 
In Washington State you have the Puget Sound area that, due to population density politically paints the state deep blue. Then there's Eastern Washington that comprises over 3/4 of the states land mass but is largely rural, agricultural and predictably Red.

One size fits all policies in everything from 2nd amendment rights to taxation, storm water runoff and general land use policy simply don't work, and now the fucking hair lip is calling people "insubordinate" for questioning him on when the state will reopen.

Unfortunately we don't have gubernatorial term limits so there's probably enough votes in the Soviet Peoples  Republic of Seattle to re-elect him. All he's done is tax the shit out of everything, defy the Federal government while begging for hand outs and generally being a dick head.


 :baldy:

   
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 23, 2020, 01:51:35 PM
Unfortunately we don't have gubernatorial term limits

You don't need them with smart, educated, informed voters who wil... oh wait. Never mind.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Vulcanbill on April 23, 2020, 02:18:18 PM
All I saw was pube snarfer. 

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Vulcanbill on April 23, 2020, 02:19:57 PM
I'll just sit here and watch the circus that continues to unfold across the pond.  :popcorn: I wish you all the best.

Oh, we're all screwed. It's all a matter of mitigation and survivability now. Fortunately, it's all still (mostly) civil.

Once the *real* scarcities set in, THEN it'll be interesting. Maybe some of those haircut-needing protesting preppers will finally get to use their bunkers.

you don't know me
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on April 23, 2020, 02:29:34 PM
What is it with people named Chris.... oh wait... nevermind.  :blbl:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 23, 2020, 02:31:24 PM
I'll just sit here and watch the circus that continues to unfold across the pond.  :popcorn: I wish you all the best.

Oh, we're all screwed. It's all a matter of mitigation and survivability now. Fortunately, it's all still (mostly) civil.

Once the *real* scarcities set in, THEN it'll be interesting. Maybe some of those haircut-needing protesting preppers will finally get to use their bunkers.

you don't know me

Oh, I ain't dissing anyone. You need three guides, a goat, and witchcraft to find us when we're parked in WV. That's where I'm hidden. Water, food, and ammo already onsite :)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 23, 2020, 03:01:50 PM
I'll just sit here and watch the circus that continues to unfold across the pond.  :popcorn: I wish you all the best.

Oh, we're all screwed. It's all a matter of mitigation and survivability now. Fortunately, it's all still (mostly) civil.

Once the *real* scarcities set in, THEN it'll be interesting. Maybe some of those haircut-needing protesting preppers will finally get to use their bunkers.

you don't know me

Oh, I ain't dissing anyone. You need three guides, a goat, and witchcraft to find us when we're parked in WV. That's where I'm hidden. Water, food, and ammo already onsite :)

Remember, leaves of three make good TP.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 23, 2020, 03:06:17 PM

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 23, 2020, 03:09:35 PM
.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: mr.awesome on April 23, 2020, 03:57:46 PM
They built a 1000 bed temporary hospital here in Detroit at the TCF conference center (where they hold the North American International Auto Show). The latest figures i can find are there are only 16 patients. Then they built another 250 bed facility at the Suburban event center. I don't think there is anybody in there. Then they closed one of the actual Beaumont hospitals. Just doesn't make sense.  :headscratch:

That sounds like if you did a little digging, it would come up as where the funding comes from. Temporary hospitals are funded by the US government (at least that's what I understand). But a standard hospital has a completely different source of funding.

It makes no sense to put the money into temporary facilities instead of putting them into existing facilities, but that's where the complexities of politics and accounting come into it.  :shrug:

I don't need to any digging. The temps were put up by the army corps of engineers. It is just the feds way of showing they did something. When all we needed was just PPE for all the front line workers. They could have saved millions if they would have just given the Gov what she was asking for.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 23, 2020, 04:03:43 PM
we've been red hatted. this is getting seriously political. mods, eh?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 23, 2020, 04:16:52 PM
we've been red hatted. this is getting seriously political. mods, eh?

No, it really isn't.

PA had stuff confiscated by the feds. Resource allocation, not political.
Feds provided X instead of Y to Michigan. Resource allocation, not political.
Differing stories, colliding facts, growing pools of information. not political.

Now if someone was sitting here saying "trump ruined everything and sucks russias teats, and that dagburned oh-bayma broke health care while destroying christmas", then THAT would be political. I guess.

I mean, what's politics...? what's political...? Everything has a component of a political agenda in it. Just can't be so overt as to start an actual war over one person's criminally narcissistic champion beating up on some other person's criminally apathetic champion, and vice versa. :)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on April 23, 2020, 05:10:27 PM
So are you are insinuating is that MI  made out better than PA, because the temporary facility erected in SE PA by the Army Corp blew over in a storm.  That’s pretty d@mn insinuating, if you ask me.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: jadziadax8 on April 23, 2020, 05:53:12 PM
Illinois' stay at home order has been extended through May 30th.

My local NPR affiliate (WBEZ) made a bingo card for watching our governor's daily briefings:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 23, 2020, 09:51:40 PM
So are you are insinuating is that MI  made out better than PA, because the temporary facility erected in SE PA by the Army Corp blew over in a storm.  That’s pretty d@mn insinuating, if you ask me.

me?

no. I'm simply responding to papa's question of politicizing. Both situations are fucked up, and are the result of typical-for-this-administration federal involvement. :shrug:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 23, 2020, 10:11:18 PM
This damned bug really is reading like Andromeda Strain. :(

https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/04/17/organ-damage (https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/04/17/organ-damage)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 23, 2020, 11:54:53 PM
there's been a run on bleach and UV sun lamps no0w.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: radon222 on April 24, 2020, 06:36:47 AM

I don't need to any digging. The temps were put up by the army corps of engineers. It is just the feds way of showing they did something. When all we needed was just PPE for all the front line workers. They could have saved millions if they would have just given the Gov what she was asking for.  :facepalm:

With the temp hospitals,  I think that one of those things where its easier to look back after the peak and say they weren't need, than it was while looking forward and only having the predicted peaks to use for a judgement call.   

In other words, what would you be saying now if those model predictions were the reality and the Feds didn't have the Temp hospitals in place?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 24, 2020, 07:39:11 AM
there's been a run on bleach and UV sun lamps no0w.

May all who believe it enjoy their Cloroxtini and sunburns.

Also, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/kentucky-sees-sharpest-rise-in-covid-19-cases-following-anti-lockdown-protests/ (https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/kentucky-sees-sharpest-rise-in-covid-19-cases-following-anti-lockdown-protests/)

I just deleted a whole bunch of words because I got a little ranty; in short - not nearly enough about this bug is known yet, the list of lingering damages grows every day, and the USA is the biggest group of assholes in containing this thing. Stay home, let the medical community do their thing, quit whining about your fucking hair, and shave your stupid scraggly beard that you never let grow more than a day under "normal" conditions.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 24, 2020, 08:20:58 AM
https://reason.com/2020/04/22/shouldnt-covid-19s-lethality-inform-the-response-to-it/?fbclid=IwAR1gg0qCxCCbBkI4WENte7n8kEnffmy1AdgyJKaH07H5c97lSrHSO8zUhOM

"The question is especially pressing in light of the fatality rate implied by the study. In contrast with the current crude case fatality rate of about 4.5 percent, Ferrer said, the study suggests that 0.1 percent to 0.2 percent of people infected by the virus will die, which would make COVID-19 only somewhat more deadly than the seasonal flu.

That finding is consistent with the results of an earlier antibody study in Santa Clara County. "The mortality rate now has dropped a lot," Ferrer conceded.

That point, assuming it is confirmed by other studies, surely should figure in any cost-benefit analysis of lockdowns, which are depriving millions of Americans of their liberty and livelihoods in the hope of saving lives. Politicians who supported those restrictions were powerfully influenced by terrifying projections of COVID-19 deaths that assumed a fatality rate at least four times as high as the data from Los Angeles County and Santa Clara County suggest."
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on April 24, 2020, 08:26:20 AM
Amazon delivered my home barber kit yesterday.   

Today I’m going to see if I can buy some fiber optics to inject disinfectant UV light into my lungs.

Maybe then I’ll have a cigar.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: mr.awesome on April 24, 2020, 08:50:29 AM
Amazon delivered my home barber kit yesterday.   


I think you should try it out during Happy Hour today.  :razz:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 24, 2020, 09:25:22 AM
Amazon delivered my home barber kit yesterday.   

Today I’m going to see if I can buy some fiber optics to inject disinfectant UV light into my lungs.

Maybe then I’ll have a cigar.

  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 24, 2020, 09:45:32 AM
Even the protestors can't keep their empty ass argument on point. ICU nurse yelled at for giving abortions and being an actor. oy.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/shes-icu-nurse-silently-stood-162623230.html (https://www.yahoo.com/news/shes-icu-nurse-silently-stood-162623230.html)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 24, 2020, 09:46:08 AM
https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2020-04-23/new-york-coronavirus-antibody-tests-show-infection-rate-of-nearly-14?fbclid=IwAR2E-C1u0faVFyQFQ0N5PzAkxJUQtPfbZK0RDsHAjEBGAJ3WmUmrNNpeCWE (https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2020-04-23/new-york-coronavirus-antibody-tests-show-infection-rate-of-nearly-14?fbclid=IwAR2E-C1u0faVFyQFQ0N5PzAkxJUQtPfbZK0RDsHAjEBGAJ3WmUmrNNpeCWE)

Another study that suggests the crude mortality rate is greatly inflated above reality.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on April 24, 2020, 09:50:48 AM
.
That point, assuming it is confirmed by other studies, surely should figure in any cost-benefit analysis of lockdowns, which are depriving millions of Americans of their liberty and livelihoods in the hope of saving lives. Politicians who supported those restrictions were powerfully influenced by terrifying projections of COVID-19 deaths that assumed a fatality rate at least four times as high as the data from Los Angeles County and Santa Clara County suggest."

I can be forgiving of any “overreacting” for this reason...we saw what it was doing in China (until they cut off access) and how it was impacting nations early on (e.g., Italy and Iran).  Did we do too much?  Absolutely.  Some industries would have to shut down (e.g., dine in restaurants), while most all others could have reworked their operations to have the minimum number of people on site and performing diligent sterilization of the work space to prevent spread.  A blanket “lock down” really only makes sense in densely populated areas that can’t inject enough space between people to let most go about their daily business.

Keep in mind that most Americans are not forced to stay home.  They were ASKED and they complied to do their part.  Only a few areas started going into draconian measures to impose a lock down.

When a disease emerges that we hardly understand, spreads fast and silently, and has the ability to kill more than a typical cold, you tend to overreact because you want to get ahead of the infection rate and you’re already at the back of the pack.  This is exacerbated by the lack of PPE for both health care workers and the general public.

I’d like the Trump administration to push preparedness as a national agenda.  Everyone who can should plant a garden (at least know how).  Everyone should have a box of gloves and a box of dust masks at home.  Everything we need in the event of supply chain disruption should be made in at least two diverse locations in the USA so we can ramp up production rather than have to ask industry leaders to retool on the fly to meet a desperate need.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 24, 2020, 09:58:26 AM
I’d like the Trump administration to push preparedness as a national agenda.  Everyone who can should plant a garden (at least know how).  Everyone should have a box of gloves and a box of dust masks at home.  Everything we need in the event of supply chain disruption should be made in at least two diverse locations in the USA so we can ramp up production rather than have to ask industry leaders to retool on the fly to meet a desperate need.

That's a beautiful dream. That sounds like a lot of science. Science isn't en vogue in certain circles these days. :(
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 24, 2020, 10:32:37 AM
.
That point, assuming it is confirmed by other studies, surely should figure in any cost-benefit analysis of lockdowns, which are depriving millions of Americans of their liberty and livelihoods in the hope of saving lives. Politicians who supported those restrictions were powerfully influenced by terrifying projections of COVID-19 deaths that assumed a fatality rate at least four times as high as the data from Los Angeles County and Santa Clara County suggest."

I can be forgiving of any “overreacting” for this reason...we saw what it was doing in China (until they cut off access) and how it was impacting nations early on (e.g., Italy and Iran).  Did we do too much?  Absolutely.  Some industries would have to shut down (e.g., dine in restaurants), while most all others could have reworked their operations to have the minimum number of people on site and performing diligent sterilization of the work space to prevent spread.  A blanket “lock down” really only makes sense in densely populated areas that can’t inject enough space between people to let most go about their daily business.

Keep in mind that most Americans are not forced to stay home.  They were ASKED and they complied to do their part.  Only a few areas started going into draconian measures to impose a lock down.

When a disease emerges that we hardly understand, spreads fast and silently, and has the ability to kill more than a typical cold, you tend to overreact because you want to get ahead of the infection rate and you’re already at the back of the pack.  This is exacerbated by the lack of PPE for both health care workers and the general public.

I’d like the Trump administration to push preparedness as a national agenda.  Everyone who can should plant a garden (at least know how).  Everyone should have a box of gloves and a box of dust masks at home.  Everything we need in the event of supply chain disruption should be made in at least two diverse locations in the USA so we can ramp up production rather than have to ask industry leaders to retool on the fly to meet a desperate need.

The whole point is that as new information comes in, and mortality rates have continuously been adjusted lower and lower (and all current evidence suggests that trend will continue), it should influence the benefits or the costs of lockdowns vs. opening the economy. The article was not criticising initial precautions. Nor was I.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on April 24, 2020, 10:39:11 AM
Amazon delivered my home barber kit yesterday.   


I think you should try it out during Happy Hour today.  :razz:

I think I’d rather go out and ride on I-95 in the rain during rush hour today. 
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: minimac on April 24, 2020, 10:48:54 AM
[quote author=zer0netgain link=topic=6530.msg199625#msg199625 date=1587739848

Keep in mind that most Americans are not forced to stay home.  They were ASKED and they complied to do their part.   
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 This is exacerbated by the lack of PPE for both health care workers and the general public.

[/quote]

#1- Sort of like the "Voluntary Compliance" required to file income taxes?
#2- When you're in the business of healthcare (or any industry), and it requires the use of PPE, isn't it incumbent upon that employer to to maintain a more than adequate supply?  It seems to me that the healthcare industry as a whole was caught with their pants down.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on April 24, 2020, 10:57:36 AM
I’d like the Trump administration to push preparedness as a national agenda.  Everyone who can should plant a garden (at least know how).  Everyone should have a box of gloves and a box of dust masks at home.  Everything we need in the event of supply chain disruption should be made in at least two diverse locations in the USA so we can ramp up production rather than have to ask industry leaders to retool on the fly to meet a desperate need.

That's a beautiful dream. That sounds like a lot of science. Science isn't en vogue in certain circles these days. :(

Of course President Obama had the chance to do that when this hit last time around the world, like many other countries did (the ones that are doing well now).  It didn't happen then either.  As I have said before- we Americans don't prepare, we react.  It's who we are.

As for the rest, I totally think this thing is going to be FAR less deadly than predicted or even evidenced right now now once widespread testing is available.  We do not have a complete picture yet.  Also they ARE finding more long term issues, in VERY few people.  Don't freak out about that.  Or do!   :bigok:

Edited to add:  Our Governor JUST relaxed restrictions to a more common sense level.  Golf,. fishing, etc are allowed now, as are many other low-impact activities and businesses.  Maybe she learned to follow the science more from the reaction she got after the last set of restrictions.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 24, 2020, 11:11:19 AM
"As for the rest, I totally think this thing is going to be FAR less deadly than predicted or even evidenced right now"

And dammit, there's science to back that up!
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 24, 2020, 11:51:41 AM
Clay, remember though... deadly isn't the only measure of destructive.

People are getting really, really messed up by this bug.

And the number of people with lingering respiratory issues is growing and growing and is scary.

It's all scary. AND deadly. AND scary. AND destructive.

None of this is either/or.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 24, 2020, 12:04:36 PM
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/what-we-know-about-the-long-term-effects-of-covid-19 (https://www.healthline.com/health-news/what-we-know-about-the-long-term-effects-of-covid-19)


"Who is most at risk?
Not everyone who beats COVID-19 has the same risk of experiencing long-term consequences from the SARS-CoV-2 infection.

Those most at risk are “people 65 years and older, people who live in a nursing home or long-term care facility, people with chronic lung, heart, kidney and liver disease,” said Dr. Gary Weinstein, pulmonologist/critical care medicine specialist at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital Dallas (Texas Health Dallas). Additionally, he said others who could be at risk are those with compromised immune systems and people with morbid obesity or diabetes."

Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on April 24, 2020, 12:14:45 PM
Clay, remember though... deadly isn't the only measure of destructive.

People are getting really, really messed up by this bug.

And the number of people with lingering respiratory issues is growing and growing and is scary.

It's all scary. AND deadly. AND scary. AND destructive.

None of this is either/or.

The numbers of everything you list above are VERY low compared to the number of infected right now- and again I'm betting that's going to get better by a lot once the mass testing begins.

I tell ya, even the article you linked earlier (https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/04/17/organ-damage (https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/04/17/organ-damage)) the numbers can't be trusted- almost all of them come from China- and we know they are not playing by the rules at all.  This is what it says:
"40% of seriously ill Covid-19 patients in China experienced arrhythmias and 20% experienced other cardiac injuries." (emphasis mine).  These are patients that already have issues going on- it is not the "average" patient that is having these symptoms.

Again:
"said early data showed 14% to 30% of ICU Covid-19 patients in New York and Wuhan, China, lost kidney function and later required dialysis."  These are patients that already have issues- they are in ICU. 

I'm not saying bad things aren't happening, but brother, ya gotta chill a little.  You know I love you, but you're freaking out about the fringes.  It's worthy of consideration, but these are very small numbers, not to mention almost all of them are coming from China- and I'd say if there's one thing we've learned from this it's that you can't trust information coming from China.  That's not to say it couldn't be accurate, but we simply cannot trust them.

I was listening to Science Friday while running yesterday- and they mentioned in an episode one week after the first patient was identified in the US that there was no way this person was the first patient- that based on numbers they were hypothesizing that this had been in the US for far more than a month already and was already making the rounds.

Now- this next thing is TOTALLY anecdotal- but my wife (DnP college nursing prof full time pediatric nurse practitioner part time) and the docs in her office were talking last week Friday, and they also thought this thing had been here since at least January.  The numbers of non-positive testers for Influenza A and B that had symptoms were WAY higher than most years- and this was in January.  Numbers way out of whack.  Again, anecdotal, but I read a couple of articles about that as well.

I'm all about taking common sense measures, but dude, you seem to really be on high alert ion this thing.  Relax and join us for a brew tonight.  It's gonna work out.   :bigok:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 24, 2020, 12:20:02 PM
There's only one person around here that reads and listens to the science. Everyone else is stupid, an asshole, can't be trusted to vote, and is worried about their scraggly beard.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on April 24, 2020, 12:27:59 PM
What Clay is saying....advisory.com:

'may'
'could be'
China
China
China
China
China
China
Some other country or nationality
China
China
China
China
China
China
China
Some other country or nationality....

Chris....
The company I used to work for sold DNA sequencing machines to China for 'research purposes only'. They ended up using them to sequence the Uighers.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/21/business/china-xinjiang-uighur-dna-thermo-fisher.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/21/business/china-xinjiang-uighur-dna-thermo-fisher.html)

Actually the company acquired by Thermo Fisher, Life Technologies, came about from the acquisition of Applied Biosystems by Invitrogen. I've been all through the iterations. I remember early on one of my colleagues working on deals with the Chinese coming to me fearful his cell phone was tapped. I told him to speak to our in-house counsel. Nothing I could do really, but I thought to myself "what did you think was going to happen?"

You will pardon me if I am skeptical of any research coming out of China particularly since they don't want to lose any face. And China.... is not our friend. You should be more critical about what you post... and what you listen to.

I wish you well. Always.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 24, 2020, 12:44:21 PM
Oh, I'm not freaking out. I just really think a whole lot of people aren't giving this its due, and are rushing to conclusions we're NO WHERE near ready to really make yet.

I'm 90% sure my household had this back in February, and I *am* having lingering respiratory issues, or I'm having the worse lower respiratory tract allergy season going on 3 months running in history. My doctor can't test me because they can't get the antibody tests, despite our government representatives on tv every night stating emphatically the opposite. My sister in law can't get protective equipment, despite 40 of her patients in a ~300 bed facility having died from it (she's an elder care / assisted living care nurse). I quite literally can't do two flights of steps with searing pain somewhere down in my trachea. All this "freaking out" comes from a place of actual experience - or a damned good analog to real experience.

It's not freaking out because I know - assuming I had it and I really think I did - it was the sickest I've been in my life, and it was scary as hell, and it left its mark. And I'm healthy, coming up on 54 years old, ~40 lbs over weight, slightly high cholesterol and good-to-mildly-high-but-within-fine-ranges blood pressure.

My (apparent) injury from this, and a whole plethora of dead people that keep stacking up, that's all just an acceptable loss. Cool.

Ya know... My attention in this thread has run its course. I've said my peace/piece (both apply). I hope none of you get it, or if you do, you remain asymptomatic. Except that one guy. Some people need a harder lesson.

ciao
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 24, 2020, 12:51:19 PM
I don't think that dude is used to people holding their ground with a differing view, especially when they hit back.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on April 24, 2020, 01:30:09 PM
Oh, I'm not freaking out. I just really think a whole lot of people aren't giving this its due, and are rushing to conclusions we're NO WHERE near ready to really make yet.

I'm 90% sure my household had this back in February, and I *am* having lingering respiratory issues, or I'm having the worse lower respiratory tract allergy season going on 3 months running in history. My doctor can't test me because they can't get the antibody tests, despite our government representatives on tv every night stating emphatically the opposite. My sister in law can't get protective equipment, despite 40 of her patients in a ~300 bed facility having died from it (she's an elder care / assisted living care nurse). I quite literally can't do two flights of steps with searing pain somewhere down in my trachea. All this "freaking out" comes from a place of actual experience - or a damned good analog to real experience.

It's not freaking out because I know - assuming I had it and I really think I did - it was the sickest I've been in my life, and it was scary as hell, and it left its mark. And I'm healthy, coming up on 54 years old, ~40 lbs over weight, slightly high cholesterol and good-to-mildly-high-but-within-fine-ranges blood pressure.

My (apparent) injury from this, and a whole plethora of dead people that keep stacking up, that's all just an acceptable loss. Cool.

Ya know... My attention in this thread has run its course. I've said my peace/piece (both apply). I hope none of you get it, or if you do, you remain asymptomatic. Except that one guy. Some people need a harder lesson.

ciao

Chris... that was helpful to know. All that would be concerning to me as well and frustrating. I am sorry to hear that you are not well and suffering. 

There's a lot of stuff swirling around - obesity MAY be a risk factor (see articles on 'proning'). Not sure about allergies, but I've read about your complaints about going into certain buildings and having an allergy attack and feeling ill. You MAY have chemical in addition to biological allergies/sensitivities. In short, you MAY have underlying conditions.

We can't stay home forever, so we need to take reasonable steps to get things moving again... and accept a level of risk. Because the world is not safe; it has never been safe. The intelligent ones will take the steps necessary to protect themselves and avoid those who do not.

And finally... the difficult part: I will not be hectored, lectured, or subjected to condescension because I have a different opinion. Not to mention the mockery and sarcasm. No one wants dead people 'piling up'. And wishing ill on others should be a cause for reassessment.

I wish you well. Always. Again.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: stevent on April 24, 2020, 01:38:07 PM
There's only one person around here that reads and listens to the science. Everyone else is stupid, an asshole, can't be trusted to vote, and is worried about their scraggly beard.


My beard looks just fine Thank You... :gerg:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on April 24, 2020, 01:42:40 PM
There's only one person around here that reads and listens to the science. Everyone else is stupid, an asshole, can't be trusted to vote, and is worried about their scraggly beard.

Talk about a blanket judgement.

I wonder who this "one person" (unicorn) is?  :popcorn:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 24, 2020, 02:12:57 PM
Here's what the science says.

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 24, 2020, 02:26:11 PM
Amazon delivered my home barber kit yesterday.   

Today I’m going to see if I can buy some fiber optics to inject disinfectant UV light into my lungs.

Maybe then I’ll have a cigar.

I always have a smoke after committing suicide. It's a part of the plan.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 24, 2020, 02:28:04 PM
In other news, France, where around 25% of adults (and probably children too) has noticed that smokers have a 50% lower infection rate compared to non-smokers.

Smoke tabs. You know it's good for you.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on April 24, 2020, 05:41:08 PM
Amazon delivered my home barber kit yesterday.   

Today I’m going to see if I can buy some fiber optics to inject disinfectant UV light into my lungs.

Maybe then I’ll have a cigar.

I always have a smoke after committing suicide. It's a part of the plan.

I was just being sarcastic. 
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 25, 2020, 01:01:05 AM
Amazon delivered my home barber kit yesterday.   

Today I’m going to see if I can buy some fiber optics to inject disinfectant UV light into my lungs.

Maybe then I’ll have a cigar.

I always have a smoke after committing suicide. It's a part of the plan.

I was just being sarcastic.

I did realise. So was I. ;)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on April 25, 2020, 08:53:59 AM
Oh, I'm not freaking out. I just really think a whole lot of people aren't giving this its due, and are rushing to conclusions we're NO WHERE near ready to really make yet.

I'm 90% sure my household had this back in February, and I *am* having lingering respiratory issues, or I'm having the worse lower respiratory tract allergy season going on 3 months running in history. My doctor can't test me because they can't get the antibody tests, despite our government representatives on tv every night stating emphatically the opposite. My sister in law can't get protective equipment, despite 40 of her patients in a ~300 bed facility having died from it (she's an elder care / assisted living care nurse). I quite literally can't do two flights of steps with searing pain somewhere down in my trachea. All this "freaking out" comes from a place of actual experience - or a damned good analog to real experience.

It's not freaking out because I know - assuming I had it and I really think I did - it was the sickest I've been in my life, and it was scary as hell, and it left its mark. And I'm healthy, coming up on 54 years old, ~40 lbs over weight, slightly high cholesterol and good-to-mildly-high-but-within-fine-ranges blood pressure.

My (apparent) injury from this, and a whole plethora of dead people that keep stacking up, that's all just an acceptable loss. Cool.

Ya know... My attention in this thread has run its course. I've said my peace/piece (both apply). I hope none of you get it, or if you do, you remain asymptomatic. Except that one guy. Some people need a harder lesson.

ciao

Chris... that was helpful to know. All that would be concerning to me as well and frustrating. I am sorry to hear that you are not well and suffering. 

There's a lot of stuff swirling around - obesity MAY be a risk factor (see articles on 'proning'). Not sure about allergies, but I've read about your complaints about going into certain buildings and having an allergy attack and feeling ill. You MAY have chemical in addition to biological allergies/sensitivities. In short, you MAY have underlying conditions.

We can't stay home forever, so we need to take reasonable steps to get things moving again... and accept a level of risk. Because the world is not safe; it has never been safe. The intelligent ones will take the steps necessary to protect themselves and avoid those who do not.

And finally... the difficult part: I will not be hectored, lectured, or subjected to condescension because I have a different opinion. Not to mention the mockery and sarcasm. No one wants dead people 'piling up'. And wishing ill on others should be a cause for reassessment.

I wish you well. Always. Again.

What she said.  That's good to know, and explains a lot.  I hope your helth improves and whatever it is gets done with you!
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on April 25, 2020, 12:37:55 PM
There's only one person around here that reads and listens to the science. Everyone else is stupid, an asshole, can't be trusted to vote, and is worried about their scraggly beard.

Talk about a blanket judgement.

I wonder who this "one person" (unicorn) is?  :popcorn:


Me.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 26, 2020, 11:49:44 PM
no sniggering at the back of the class.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/20/can-the-coronavirus-be-spread-through-farts/?fbclid=IwAR3xADJE2tysMj7N91Hv5qH7Hi7mHiq9wqIXnb3f6raPWsRLuY0PrrGsiK0
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 27, 2020, 08:40:36 AM
Don't step on a duck.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: coho on April 27, 2020, 12:24:51 PM
no sniggering at the back of the class.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/20/can-the-coronavirus-be-spread-through-farts/?fbclid=IwAR3xADJE2tysMj7N91Hv5qH7Hi7mHiq9wqIXnb3f6raPWsRLuY0PrrGsiK0

"the power of parping"  :lol:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on April 27, 2020, 05:21:12 PM
I had fun Friday night getting a bit looped and playing around in the med literature (scholars have weird hobbies). I put together my own coronavirus moral panic theory and couldn't decide whether to post it here or the conspiracy theory thread. But it's got everything -- science which says it could be true, a Chinese government cover-up, and a couple of docs saying, "We should think about this." So far as I can tell, this one hasn't really hit the popular media yet, so we can be the first to spread it!

So, it works like this:  We now know, and this has made it to the popular media, that the virus enters the body by attaching to the protein ACE2 (angiotensin-converting enzyme-2). There's a lot of this in your mucus membranes and that's the doorway.

What's emerging now is that most of the deaths are related to this. ACE2 is in a lot of places, the virus uses it to enter the cells and replicate, and the cell dies. It's present in the brain (hence loss of taste and smell -- we actually don't know what other neurotoxic effects there are or how long they last), liver (responsible for a lot of deaths), kidneys (invest in dialysis machines now), heart and arterial system (heart attacks and blood clots have caused a lot of deaths too).

Okay, so here's where we get to the speculative part. One of the largest reservoirs of ACE2 in the male body is in the testicles. As you might have learned in your basic anatomy class, that particular part of the male body is walled off from the immune system, so if the coronavirus gets in there, it's there until you're dead. I didn't do a complete review of the literature, but research into just what the hell ACE1, 2, and 3 do down there seems to have been emerging in the early part of the 2010's. A 2012 article I found had a pretty strong association with abnormal expression of these proteins and male infertility.

And boom, there we have our end-of-the-world panic button. This coronavirus will be a mass sterilization event for infected men.

The Chinese government conspiracy part:  A government research agency in Hubei put a paper on a preprint medical server saying, basically, "Uh, if you've been infected, you may want to go see if you're still fertile." No data were in the paper, it was a "this is possible" piece. The paper was quickly withdrawn (this is all true to this point), reportedly at the insistence of a higher government body (unconfirmed).

Is this actually possible? Yep. Is it likely? Highly unlikely according to what I've read, but no one really knows. Is anyone looking at it? I found one preprint article on Medrxiv from a South American group that was looking for the virus in sperm or semen, but the study was so poorly controlled and the sample so small (there's a joke in there) that you wouldn't be able to conclude anything no matter what they found (their result was "maybe"). The comments mentioned that a Euro group had put up a preprint showing no virus in a small sample, but that had already been withdrawn. Even if it's there, of course, we wouldn't know the long term effects until there's been, well, a long term.

But it's a fun one to play with. I'm not seeing that one out there yet. Let's start the ball rolling!  (<-- couldn't resist).
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: radon222 on April 27, 2020, 05:26:51 PM
I had fun Friday night getting a bit looped and playing around in the med literature (scholars have weird hobbies). I put together my own coronavirus moral panic theory and couldn't decide whether to post it here or the conspiracy theory thread. But it's got everything -- science which says it could be true, a Chinese government cover-up, and a couple of docs saying, "We should think about this." So far as I can tell, this one hasn't really hit the popular media yet, so we can be the first to spread it!

So, it works like this:  We now know, and this has made it to the popular media, that the virus enters the body by attaching to the protein ACE2 (angiotensin-converting enzyme-2). There's a lot of this in your mucus membranes and that's the doorway.

What's emerging now is that most of the deaths are related to this. ACE2 is in a lot of places, the virus uses it to enter the cells and replicate, and the cell dies. It's present in the brain (hence loss of taste and smell -- we actually don't know what other neurotoxic effects there are or how long they last), liver (responsible for a lot of deaths), kidneys (invest in dialysis machines now), heart and arterial system (heart attacks and blood clots have caused a lot of deaths too).

Okay, so here's where we get to the speculative part. One of the largest reservoirs of ACE2 in the male body is in the testicles. As you might have learned in your basic anatomy class, that particular part of the male body is walled off from the immune system, so if the coronavirus gets in there, it's there until you're dead. I didn't do a complete review of the literature, but research into just what the hell ACE1, 2, and 3 do down there seems to have been emerging in the early part of the 2010's. A 2012 article I found had a pretty strong association with abnormal expression of these proteins and male infertility.

And boom, there we have our end-of-the-world panic button. This coronavirus will be a mass sterilization event for infected men.

The Chinese government conspiracy part:  A government research agency in Hubei put a paper on a preprint medical server saying, basically, "Uh, if you've been infected, you may want to go see if you're still fertile." No data were in the paper, it was a "this is possible" piece. The paper was quickly withdrawn (this is all true to this point), reportedly at the insistence of a higher government body (unconfirmed).

Is this actually possible? Yep. Is it likely? Highly unlikely according to what I've read, but no one really knows. Is anyone looking at it? I found one preprint article on Medrxiv from a South American group that was looking for the virus in sperm or semen, but the study was so poorly controlled and the sample so small (there's a joke in there) that you wouldn't be able to conclude anything no matter what they found (their result was "maybe"). The comments mentioned that a Euro group had put up a preprint showing no virus in a small sample, but that had already been withdrawn. Even if it's there, of course, we wouldn't know the long term effects until there's been, well, a long term.

But it's a fun one to play with. I'm not seeing that one out there yet. Let's start the ball rolling!  (<-- couldn't resist).

Oh I can hear it now. 

"No baby, we don't have to use a condom. 
I had CoVID19 and can't knock you up......."

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on April 27, 2020, 05:31:00 PM

Oh I can hear it now. 

"No baby, we don't have to use a condom. 
I had CoVID19 and can't knock you up......."

Ooh, you should trademark that for the t-shirts.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 27, 2020, 05:54:28 PM
"One of the largest reservoirs of ACE2 in the male body is in the testicles."

Progressive men are safe by default.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Eh2zed on April 27, 2020, 06:13:13 PM
With 2 degrees of separation we know of 5 deaths so far. This thing has just begun. Round 2 is coming. Am I over reacting? Maybe but I don't think so and in any case I would rather be on that side than on the "It's only 15 cases and will soon be zero" side.
It's a million cases so far. Last time I looked 1,000,000 < 15  wasn't quite right.
Stay home. I don't wish this on anyone. Stay home.
Stay home.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on April 27, 2020, 06:20:56 PM
As businesses open up staying home is your prerogative.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on April 27, 2020, 06:27:05 PM
With 2 degrees of separation we know of 5 deaths so far. This thing has just begun. Round 2 is coming. Am I over reacting? Maybe but I don't think so and in any case I would rather be on that side than on the "It's only 15 cases and will soon be zero" side.
It's a million cases so far. Last time I looked 1,000,000 < 15  wasn't quite right.
Stay home. I don't wish this on anyone. Stay home.
Stay home.

This is what I actually agree with.

But I'm also a little bit encouraged by what I'm seeing in South Korea. There hasn't been a large late April second wave as was feared and they're now preparing for the next wave to hit during next fall/winter flu season. Obviously, we've failed to develop either the testing or tracing abilities they have, so we're at greater risk of a worse second wave hitting immediately. But we're on the way to opening anyway, so watch the numbers. (Speaking of which, if you're following the heat maps, it's a really good time to stay out of Georgia.)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: st2sam on April 27, 2020, 06:35:07 PM
My thoughts so far.

Have the Government agencies in charge ( to me the scary part) "cut off the leg to save a foot"?

At this time I'm thinking that's the case.
However, having said that, six months down the road my view could change. :shrug:

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on April 27, 2020, 06:39:24 PM
Well you know.... in the Handmaid's Tale, the whole premise of Gilead was that a virus made men infertile or less fertile, hence the weird sex practices....
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Eh2zed on April 27, 2020, 08:50:39 PM
I spend half my time checking stats and I'm damned if I can figure out WTF.  Canada has 72 deaths per million. The USA has 172. Belgium has 622. Taiwan has 0.3 
What am I missing here?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on April 27, 2020, 09:01:32 PM
I spend half my time checking stats and I'm damned if I can figure out WTF.  Canada has 72 deaths per million. The USA has 172. Belgium has 622. Taiwan has 0.3 
What am I missing here?



Lots.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on April 27, 2020, 09:35:46 PM
I spend half my time checking stats and I'm damned if I can figure out WTF.  Canada has 72 deaths per million. The USA has 172. Belgium has 622. Taiwan has 0.3 
What am I missing here?

The numbers are not equally weighted.  It s my understanding that Belgium attributes the death of any person who had the C-flu to Covid-19, whereas the US assigns the primary cause of death.   So a the death of a person with Covid in Belgium who suffered a fatal heart attack would be attributed to Covid, whereas if the same person died in the US the cause of death would be the heart attack.

On top of that, some countries do more testing than others.  Some countries filter the data, and others just plain fudge it.  Recall the quote attributed to Mark Twain about liars and statisticians. 

Because the rate of testing and the criteria for testing differed from state to state, we cannot quantitatively compare one state to another in our own country, let alone compare different countries

Don’t stop checking the numbers though, because I am certain you will see some trends in the data.

As I’m sure others will point out, there may be different strains of the virus.  Also the demographics of variou populations have an effect.   Compare India, which has a younger population, to Belgium which has an older population with medical complications.  Add to that living conditions, weather, etc.

Miles was so much more succinct.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Eh2zed on April 28, 2020, 06:40:10 AM
Sweden 225 deaths per million
Norway 38 deaths per million

They're next door to each other. Looks like a slam dunk to me.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: OHScot on April 28, 2020, 07:47:16 AM
Ohio seems to fudging the numbers now.  Covid or Covid like illness
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on April 28, 2020, 12:19:59 PM
The most frustrating part about this virus for me is the inconsistent reporting.

One country (or state) might report the death of a someone as "Covid" because they died of a heart attack exacerbated by Covid symptoms, whereas the country next door would just list it as "heart attack". And then you have "Some agencies and facilities have refused to release the numbers of cases or deaths. "  :rolleyes:

And don't even get me started on the whole "testing" fiasco  :nuts:

Anyway, I found this nice list of US state-by-state cases. I would prefer someone put it into graphs, but whatever.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html#states (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html#states)


FYI, of course!
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 28, 2020, 01:36:29 PM
it's the R factor which counts.

The death ratio, which depends on standard reporting (which isn't happening), shows the competence of the government also complicated by the age of the population, population adherence to distancing and population density etc.

We'll have time to vote out/ hang as traitors the incompetent leaders later. (sorry, angry).

Right now, leadership appears to be best if they are female and worst if they are male with dictatorial tendencies.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Eh2zed on April 28, 2020, 02:17:10 PM
Just the facts ma'am...
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on April 28, 2020, 04:05:32 PM
The most frustrating part about this virus for me is the inconsistent reporting.

One country (or state) might report the death of a someone as "Covid" because they died of a heart attack exacerbated by Covid symptoms, whereas the country next door would just list it as "heart attack". And then you have "Some agencies and facilities have refused to release the numbers of cases or deaths. "  :rolleyes:

And don't even get me started on the whole "testing" fiasco  :nuts:

Anyway, I found this nice list of US state-by-state cases. I would prefer someone put it into graphs, but whatever.

[url]https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html#states[/url] ([url]https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html#states[/url])


FYI, of course!


The practice in most US jurisdictions is to list the primary cause of death. So here, if you die of a heart attack caused by covid -- and we know it can cause them -- it's likely to have heart attack listed as the cause. That's suppressing some of our numbers -- spot checks show it's probably not by a big number, though.

For a great graph of the trends by state, check out  http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/ (http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/).  The state graph is the second one. It's pretty cool.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: OHScot on April 28, 2020, 07:36:28 PM
they are even unsure of how they are fudging.  Exact wording below, Eh we are close we think maybe.  Still not a good thing to see.  We will not know till we go a year and see how many died compared to prior years.

16769 confirmed and probable cases of COVID-19 in Ohio and 799 confirmed and probable COVID-19 deaths.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on April 28, 2020, 09:41:06 PM
Plenty of data here:

https://www.dartmouthatlas.org/covid-19/hrr-mapping/ (https://www.dartmouthatlas.org/covid-19/hrr-mapping/)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: OHScot on April 28, 2020, 10:20:11 PM
Lot of data for sure.  Unless you don't live in the city.  Then you have no idea what is happening.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on April 29, 2020, 08:44:28 AM
  Unless you don't live in the city.  Then you have no idea what is happening.


Well, that's true about pretty much everything.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 30, 2020, 12:49:48 AM
"However, it also shows that remdesivir is not a magic bullet in this context: the overall benefit in survival was 30%."

some hope amongst the gloom. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52478783 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52478783)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Vulcanbill on April 30, 2020, 07:35:07 AM
Costco announced that starting Monday, masks are mandatory.  I'm sure others will follow. 

Just saw that my niece's husband has cleverly jumped on that bandwagon...  https://boneyapparel.com/collections/face-masks

edit:  He also has a Corona Virus line.  https://boneyapparel.com/collections/corona-virus



Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: radon222 on April 30, 2020, 07:43:00 AM
News last night from CT, 

  It's looking my sister who works in medical care facility caught the bug-a-boo and brought it home to her hubby.  Should have official test results in a couple days... but all the signs and symptoms are there.

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on April 30, 2020, 07:46:15 AM
Costco announced that starting Monday, masks are mandatory.  I'm sure others will follow. 

Just saw that my niece's husband has cleverly jumped on that bandwagon...  https://boneyapparel.com/collections/face-masks

edit:  He also has a Corona Virus line.  https://boneyapparel.com/collections/corona-virus

The phone number.... is provocative.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: bedlamite on April 30, 2020, 09:12:28 AM
"However, it also shows that remdesivir is not a magic bullet in this context: the overall benefit in survival was 30%."

some hope amongst the gloom. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52478783 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52478783)

Just like Hydroxychloroquine, studies can be found that say it helps or it doesn't, but I bet Remdesivir will be promoted because a lot of money can be made.

https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2020/04/23/Remdesivir-doesnt-help-COVID-19-patients-leaked-study-suggests/3791587663849/ (https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2020/04/23/Remdesivir-doesnt-help-COVID-19-patients-leaked-study-suggests/3791587663849/)

I'd like to see a study done in this country on early use of hcq that isn't politicized. I've heard Gelsolin might help too, but is apparently not ready.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 30, 2020, 09:28:40 AM
"However, it also shows that remdesivir is not a magic bullet in this context: the overall benefit in survival was 30%."

some hope amongst the gloom. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52478783 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52478783)

Just like Hydroxychloroquine, studies can be found that say it helps or it doesn't, but I bet Remdesivir will be promoted because a lot of money can be made.

https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2020/04/23/Remdesivir-doesnt-help-COVID-19-patients-leaked-study-suggests/3791587663849/ (https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2020/04/23/Remdesivir-doesnt-help-COVID-19-patients-leaked-study-suggests/3791587663849/)

I'd like to see a study done in this country on early use of hcq that isn't politicized. I've heard Gelsolin might help too, but is apparently not ready.

the remdesivir study was a proper RCT unlike the earlier, Chinese study. Right now, any glimmer of hope is good.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Vulcanbill on April 30, 2020, 09:29:38 AM
 
Costco announced that starting Monday, masks are mandatory.  I'm sure others will follow. 

Just saw that my niece's husband has cleverly jumped on that bandwagon...  https://boneyapparel.com/collections/face-masks

edit:  He also has a Corona Virus line.  https://boneyapparel.com/collections/corona-virus

The phone number.... is provocative.

 :facepalm: :rolleyes:

Well, I'm truly not surprised.  Tho I hadn't seen that before.  Clearly, I'm not a customer, but I think some of his designs are...unique and timely.  Notice, I did NOT say tasteful. 
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on April 30, 2020, 09:30:24 AM
News last night from CT, 

  It's looking my sister who works in medical care facility caught the bug-a-boo and brought it home to her hubby.  Should have official test results in a couple days... but all the signs and symptoms are there.

hope she 's okay. we're getting news of several psychiatric hospitals with high rates of infections, plus nursing and children's homes. It isn't in my unit-yet-but has killed people in others and community patients are suffering.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: bedlamite on April 30, 2020, 09:33:37 AM
"However, it also shows that remdesivir is not a magic bullet in this context: the overall benefit in survival was 30%."

some hope amongst the gloom. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52478783 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52478783)

Just like Hydroxychloroquine, studies can be found that say it helps or it doesn't, but I bet Remdesivir will be promoted because a lot of money can be made.

https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2020/04/23/Remdesivir-doesnt-help-COVID-19-patients-leaked-study-suggests/3791587663849/ (https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2020/04/23/Remdesivir-doesnt-help-COVID-19-patients-leaked-study-suggests/3791587663849/)

I'd like to see a study done in this country on early use of hcq that isn't politicized. I've heard Gelsolin might help too, but is apparently not ready.

the remdesivir study was a proper RCT unlike the earlier, Chinese study. Right now, any glimmer of hope is good.

Actually the chinese study was (setting aside chinese trust) and there was no mortality difference in either study.
https://youtu.be/VscMiksyfW4?t=1069 (https://youtu.be/VscMiksyfW4?t=1069)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on April 30, 2020, 09:40:59 AM
News last night from CT, 

  It's looking my sister who works in medical care facility caught the bug-a-boo and brought it home to her hubby.  Should have official test results in a couple days... but all the signs and symptoms are there.

It's a real problem for health care workers with family.

My brother, 73, took his big ass camper to the middle of nowhere to wait it out a few weeks - or months - while his wife continues working as an elder care nurse. They've buried ~40 of their long term care patients who expired pretty quickly of covid before they locked down visits. 40 out of 300... :(

He isn't coming home any time soon, last we talked.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on April 30, 2020, 10:09:30 AM
Headline in this morning’s local newspaper - yeah, we still get one - 81% of fatalities are in long term care.   
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on April 30, 2020, 10:18:18 AM
News last night from CT, 

  It's looking my sister who works in medical care facility caught the bug-a-boo and brought it home to her hubby.  Should have official test results in a couple days... but all the signs and symptoms are there.

Oof. That sucks. Do they have enough stuff to see them through and people to check on them?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: radon222 on April 30, 2020, 10:36:15 AM
News last night from CT, 

  It's looking my sister who works in medical care facility caught the bug-a-boo and brought it home to her hubby.  Should have official test results in a couple days... but all the signs and symptoms are there.

Oof. That sucks. Do they have enough stuff to see them through and people to check on them?

They'll be fine.  Right now they are following the bad cold path and aren't debilitated.  They have plenty of friends near by so they're ok.   The other problem, is my Mom.  She doesn't drive, and Sis would take her shopping etc on Saturdays.   That ain't happening now.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: coho on April 30, 2020, 11:07:02 AM
Costco announced that starting Monday, masks are mandatory.  I'm sure others will follow. 

Just saw that my niece's husband has cleverly jumped on that bandwagon...  https://boneyapparel.com/collections/face-masks

edit:  He also has a Corona Virus line.  https://boneyapparel.com/collections/corona-virus

The phone number.... is provocative.

 :facepalm: :rolleyes:

Well, I'm truly not surprised.  Tho I hadn't seen that before.  Clearly, I'm not a customer, but I think some of his designs are...unique and timely.  Notice, I did NOT say tasteful.

I'm not particularly tasteful either. Entertaining PPG ordered.  8)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on April 30, 2020, 11:27:55 AM
"However, it also shows that remdesivir is not a magic bullet in this context: the overall benefit in survival was 30%."

some hope amongst the gloom. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52478783 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52478783)
Just like Hydroxychloroquine, studies can be found that say it helps or it doesn't, but I bet Remdesivir will be promoted because a lot of money can be made.

https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2020/04/23/Remdesivir-doesnt-help-COVID-19-patients-leaked-study-suggests/3791587663849/ (https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2020/04/23/Remdesivir-doesnt-help-COVID-19-patients-leaked-study-suggests/3791587663849/)

I'd like to see a study done in this country on early use of hcq that isn't politicized. I've heard Gelsolin might help too, but is apparently not ready.

Sadly, money controls.  Remdesiver doesn't have the numbers to prove it's the salvation they want people to believe it is.  The improvement in outcome isn't well detailed, and is too small to be statistically valid.  Likewise, all the studies of Hydroxychloroquine are deliberately flawed to ensure outcomes don't match the reports of it working from doctors in the field (omitting zinc and studies involve giving the drug when it's too late to produce positive outcomes).
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on April 30, 2020, 01:32:02 PM
Considering all of the lives that have been lost and the economic damage ensuing from Covid-19, I have to believe that any therapy which showed real promise would be promoted by both the health care and financial communities.   Believe it or not, doctors are not all that dumb.  They understand scientific methodology.  They are going to be trying different regimens because the one who does will live on in historical fame an adulation.  There is motivation here to find a cure. 

I’ve taken both of those malarial drugs on different safaris in Africa, and While both drugs are well tolerated, I experienced noticeable side effects and there is no way I would want to be taking ether one if I was suffering from severe respiratory distress.  You can make your own decisions about safety and efficacy.   

The real hope lies in the discovery of an analogue to one of these drugs that provides significant therapeutic value.   
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on April 30, 2020, 05:02:24 PM
News last night from CT, 

  It's looking my sister who works in medical care facility caught the bug-a-boo and brought it home to her hubby.  Should have official test results in a couple days... but all the signs and symptoms are there.

Oof. That sucks. Do they have enough stuff to see them through and people to check on them?

They'll be fine.  Right now they are following the bad cold path and aren't debilitated.  They have plenty of friends near by so they're ok.   The other problem, is my Mom.  She doesn't drive, and Sis would take her shopping etc on Saturdays.   That ain't happening now.

Oh, man. Sending good thoughts their way.

We have a niece who has nearly recovered. A sister-in-law is home on oxygen, but stable. The two didn't have contact with each other.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on May 01, 2020, 01:18:16 AM
6 nurses have died at a nearby psychiatric hospital. thankfully, none of the patients. 50% of staff were infected at one point.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Eh2zed on May 01, 2020, 06:58:33 AM
...blindly going through life not having a clue about how many people work in meat plants or how much they get paid or whether they are immigrants or not ...and now wondering if working there is a death sentence for some of them...and how many human beings are behind bars...and having images of ships sinking with people chained to the ship and how similar that feels to people in cages while a virus attacks....
The world is so complicated. How do I deal with not knowing everything? Just I just forget about caring? I don't want to do that. I sometimes think of the movie Castaway and wonder how an evil person would respond after being alone for a year or so and a decent human being...maybe a different race, different everything arrived as another survivor who landed on a different island and then managed to get to Tom Hanks' island......
I'm just free thinking here.....
Waddya think?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Vulcanbill on May 01, 2020, 07:34:23 AM
...blindly going through life not having a clue about how many people work in meat plants or how much they get paid or whether they are immigrants or not ...and now wondering if working there is a death sentence for some of them...and how many human beings are behind bars...and having images of ships sinking with people chained to the ship and how similar that feels to people in cages while a virus attacks....
The world is so complicated. How do I deal with not knowing everything? Just I just forget about caring? I don't want to do that. I sometimes think of the movie Castaway and wonder how an evil person would respond after being alone for a year or so and a decent human being...maybe a different race, different everything arrived as another survivor who landed on a different island and then managed to get to Tom Hanks' island......
I'm just free thinking here.....
Waddya think?

I think at a certain point, it's just too much for any one person to handle.  I guess I'm just weak but I can't stand watching suffering of any kind.  And I'm apparently too selfish to do much about it.  Even if I were to go super hardcore and try to help, I barely have enough money for me much less for others.  If I sold my stuff to get more money to give to others, I'd quickly run out and become a suck on society myself and become part of the suffering having done very little on the grand scheme of things.  If I constantly thought about all the suffering in the world, I would be useless and non functioning in short order.  So my first world white privilege spineless solution to that problem is to focus on what I can change while maintaining the status of being able to stay a  fully functioning contributing member of society.  Otherwise I'd be poor, homeless and have a hundred adopted pets that I couldn't feed.   
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on May 01, 2020, 08:46:42 AM
I do what I can to effect change in my corner of the world, and don't sweat the rest.  It sucks, but it does no good for me or those I can affect to worry about it.

As to what qualifies as "effect change"?  That's what you have to determine- but things like sharing info on Facebook or forums doesn't help anyone much.   :bigok:

We've (my family) been working now twice a month at a food pantry they now set up for curbside pickup.  Car pulls up, trunk opens, we deposit their share of food, and they move on.  I (with a couple other guys) also now have an online "talk show" on Wednesday nights for my church family- people tune in and we have guests via skype and such.  We stream from my barn in an effort to keep the community feeling alive and well, and just to check in on other people.  I'm NOT posting this to toot my own horn, but pointing out that opportunities are out there to effect real change utilizing the gifts and strengths we each have. 

Help your (meant as a very general "your") fellow man rather than bitching about him and his choices.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on May 01, 2020, 03:23:14 PM
https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/04/umpc-argues-covid-19-not-as-deadly-as-feared-says-its-hospitals-will-shift-back-to-normal.html?fbclid=IwAR0IAcnV9i8L5V3Zaf0ygp6Sfnxx9NfPEJlU779nMAPJDOV69wIKP1my-cE (https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/04/umpc-argues-covid-19-not-as-deadly-as-feared-says-its-hospitals-will-shift-back-to-normal.html?fbclid=IwAR0IAcnV9i8L5V3Zaf0ygp6Sfnxx9NfPEJlU779nMAPJDOV69wIKP1my-cE)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Black Hills on May 01, 2020, 03:59:17 PM
I'm with Clay, do what you can and be the best person you can be and don't worry about the rest.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on May 01, 2020, 10:40:50 PM
https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/04/umpc-argues-covid-19-not-as-deadly-as-feared-says-its-hospitals-will-shift-back-to-normal.html?fbclid=IwAR0IAcnV9i8L5V3Zaf0ygp6Sfnxx9NfPEJlU779nMAPJDOV69wIKP1my-cE (https://www.pennlive.com/news/2020/04/umpc-argues-covid-19-not-as-deadly-as-feared-says-its-hospitals-will-shift-back-to-normal.html?fbclid=IwAR0IAcnV9i8L5V3Zaf0ygp6Sfnxx9NfPEJlU779nMAPJDOV69wIKP1my-cE)

wishful thinking
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on May 01, 2020, 11:29:22 PM
Because data is wishful thinking.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on May 01, 2020, 11:47:33 PM
Because data is wishful thinking.

I thought he was a man machine
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on May 02, 2020, 05:38:14 AM
Some countries in Europe just announced that borders will continue to remain closed.

Some are planning for June, some for October, and some not until the end of the year.


France, Germany and Switzerland have agreed to work together to make the border opening more seamless among the three countries. (I love our government here!)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Eh2zed on May 02, 2020, 06:16:52 AM
Deaths per million   Germany:80     Switzerland: 203   WTF?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on May 02, 2020, 06:42:55 AM
I do what I can to effect change in my corner of the world, and don't sweat the rest.  It sucks, but it does no good for me or those I can affect to worry about it.

As to what qualifies as "effect change"?  That's what you have to determine- but things like sharing info on Facebook or forums doesn't help anyone much.   :bigok:

We've (my family) been working now twice a month at a food pantry they now set up for curbside pickup.  Car pulls up, trunk opens, we deposit their share of food, and they move on.  I (with a couple other guys) also now have an online "talk show" on Wednesday nights for my church family- people tune in and we have guests via skype and such.  We stream from my barn in an effort to keep the community feeling alive and well, and just to check in on other people.  I'm NOT posting this to toot my own horn, but pointing out that opportunities are out there to effect real change utilizing the gifts and strengths we each have. 

Help your (meant as a very general "your") fellow man rather than bitching about him and his choices.

1 Corinthians 13:
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on May 02, 2020, 07:22:20 AM
Deaths per million   Germany:80     Switzerland: 203   WTF?

Switzerland shares a border with Italy and has a huge number of cross-border workers. By the time the situation in Italy was fully realized, a huge portion of southern Switzerland was already exposed. The government closed the borders and non-essential businesses, but the damage was done  :(
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on May 02, 2020, 09:02:43 AM
Deaths per million   Germany:80     Switzerland: 203   WTF?

That's the crude rate, only the known tested. As the actual numbers are realized, ie the mild and asymptomatic cases, the death rates will be decimated.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on May 02, 2020, 09:37:20 AM
Quote
“Pennsylvania started to include ‘probable deaths’ in its fatalities. As a result, the total number of coronavirus deaths grew by 276, then 360, in successive nights, almost doubling the number of deaths in the state in two days,” a Fox News report explained. ” The Pennsylvania Department of Health (DOH) subsequently removed 200 deaths from its count after facing mounting questions about the accuracy of the count.”

https://www.dailywire.com/news/pennsylvania-forced-to-remove-hundreds-of-deaths-from-coronavirus-death-count-after-coroners-raise-red-flags?fbclid=IwAR39DVU8AIXVwVUrW0kV1JcM1y9Cdv51NkUnV-4KRmyPEtaH2ZfqAbS7570 (https://www.dailywire.com/news/pennsylvania-forced-to-remove-hundreds-of-deaths-from-coronavirus-death-count-after-coroners-raise-red-flags?fbclid=IwAR39DVU8AIXVwVUrW0kV1JcM1y9Cdv51NkUnV-4KRmyPEtaH2ZfqAbS7570)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on May 02, 2020, 12:19:04 PM
for those that like maps and statistics

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 (https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on May 03, 2020, 08:17:14 AM
 MALLARD FILLMORE, SUNDAY, MAY 03, 2020, King Features

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: nickybcareful on May 06, 2020, 12:31:07 PM
A friend forwarded this to me this. Thought you might find it interesting:

An epidemiologist friend of mine asked me to look at some mass balance and dispersion modelling math in some Covid-19 papers (I teach chemical engineering). I learned a lot from looking over their numbers. What's clear are a few principles:

1. The virus is everywhere. To catch the disease, you need to be exposed to sufficient viral load, i.e. breath in air with a high enough concentration of virus for long enough to allow it to build up in you.

2. An infected person exhales a predictable amount of virus in the form of water droplets (apparently even when pre-symptomatic). You generate about 100X the virus if you are speaking than if you're just breathing. Coughing's worst, of course, but just speaking is still bad.

3. The droplets don't fall to the ground because they're too small (tiny terminal velocities). They move around with the air currents, spreading and diffusing. The tiny droplets quickly become dust, because the water will evaporate soon after it leaves the lungs.

4. If the virus source (infected person) is outside, there's little chance that you can get infected unless you stand beside them and have a conversation with them. Too much air movement to build a high viral load.

5. If you're inside, it makes a big difference as to how the HVAC system works. If there are many air changes per hour (typical in retail establishments), you're much safer than in a home environment with much less air movement.

6. With a residential HVAC system, the virus will have a chance to build up to concentrations where you can get infected, even if you're not right beside someone. More important, if you spend hours in a room with an infected person, particularly if they are speaking, the viral load will be very high.

7. In a supermarket, where there's many changes of air per hour, your risk is much lower. People don't talk too much, and especially now are wearing masks and maintaining low densities because of limits on number of people in the store. You are in much more danger standing in a line inside a store than in a line outside a store, because outside the virus disperses much more quickly.

8. Public transit is a big problem. Spending 30 minutes in a bus or train car with people who have been walking (so they're breathing more heavily) allows concentrations to rise, particularly if densities are allowed to rise. It's much worse if people are talking to each other or into their phones.

So New York's problem is that there are too many people taking public transit and spending time inside, in close quarters with strangers. Apartment buildings have common HVAC systems without high exchange rates, as do assisted living centers and prisons.

You're pretty safe outside as long as you don't talk to strangers. They should have the parks and beaches open. Most people will get sick by sharing indoor space with strangers. That means the indoor entertainment industry has to stay closed, indoor gyms and choir practices are dangerous (too much heavy breathing), and restaurants can only be operated very low density.

A big part of the solution to viral load is diffusion. Any place with low density and little public transport where people make an effort to stay away from spending time next to strangers indoors will do well. Public HVAC systems with low air exchange rates that allow viral loads to accumulate are killers. Re-opening an office full of cubicles where people spend their day talking is not a good idea. Any institutional HVAC system should crank their fans to full, but if they're not designed for high air transfer, that won't help much.

You're safe outside, and pretty safe in well ventilated areas indoors, especially for short periods. Don't spend time next to strangers indoors, particularly strangers who talk. Stores should discourage talking; I know that's strange, but that's where the data leads. Transit systems are dangerous. Florida may actually do worse when it get so hot that people avoid spending time outdoors. Avoid spending time indoors sharing air with strangers.

The best thing you can do to protect yourself in a multi-unit building is to keep air circulating through your apartment by keeping windows open.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on May 06, 2020, 12:58:12 PM
that all makes sense.

so-don't live in a city.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on May 06, 2020, 01:49:02 PM
People have been arguing the opposite of #4 through this, and I laugh. This is basically the exact same information for every air-transmissible pathogen since people learned that stuff CAN even transmit in the air, and STILL people are arguing about it. Just silly. Go outside to have a talk.

Also, my son just learned that he's been exposed to two confirmed cases at his work. He's an executive chef for an upscale assisted living facility, and is considered essential personnel. So now he's on 2-week personal quarantine.

My brother is back home, at least temporarily, after his wife tested negative. She's a nurse at an assisted living home, where 60 of her 440 beds have died since April 4, nearly all of them of covid, or complications thereof. 6 of those were confirmed negative. That's freaking scary. :(
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on May 06, 2020, 07:31:46 PM
.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: leeo45 on May 07, 2020, 03:05:07 AM
Deaths per million   Germany:80     Switzerland: 203   WTF?

That's the crude rate, only the known tested. As the actual numbers are realized, ie the mild and asymptomatic cases, the death rates will be decimated.

You may understand this and may have just misspoken, however the numbers you quoted don't relate to the number tested or number of reported cases.   Within rounding those are the "actual numbers" for the metric represented on the day reported.   I suspect those countries accurately report their total populations (83.8M and 8.7M respectively) and those deaths per million population numbers will continue to go UP as more people die from the virus.   

So, valid question about the situation in two connected EU countries and thanks to DD for an explanation.

Current data (EOD Wednesday) related to the quoted post in case anyone is interested: 
   (Source:   https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/))

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on May 07, 2020, 04:21:48 AM
People need to stop counting the dead as if it means anything helpful.

This disease is now a permanent fixture for the world. Sweden is praised for basically letting everyone get it and reaching a form of “herd immunity” before everyone else.

All the precautions we are taking including shutting down the economy are intended to slow the spread so the healthcare industry isn’t overwhelmed...hopefully leading to an effective treatment plan and/or vaccine.  It’s not intended to keep you from ever getting the disease.  More so, the virus has already mutated several times (some accounts now say 30 variants), so a vaccine’s effectiveness will depend on how it empowers your immune system to resist the disease.

I don’t watch the news as I don’t care for hysteria and drama, but all we need to know are the current number of cases.  Total dead is irrelevant and only serves those who want to keep the populace shackled with fear.  Last night’s news made an issue of cases increasing now that were reopening the economy.  Did they point out that the shutdown was to slow the spread and not to stop it cold?  No.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on May 07, 2020, 05:29:48 AM
Against my better judgment, I clicked the "You are ignoring this user. Show me the post." link. Predictable.
 

If you're going to respond like this, I suggest that you listen to your better judgement and not click on his posts...  :nono:



Personally, I thought the image was rather humorous, and almost representative of how some states are reacting :shrug:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on May 07, 2020, 08:42:01 AM

Personally, I thought the image was rather humorous, and almost representative of how some states are reacting :shrug:



You're not wrong- but neither is Chornbe.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: minimac on May 07, 2020, 09:15:51 AM
I am so sick of all the gloom and doom. If I want to hear that sh*t, I'll watch The Weather Channel. I get it. The virus can be bad. Some people die, most don't. I'm refusing to live in fear of doing almost everything. No one plans on dying, but it happens. Everyday. When your time is up, it's up. There is nothing that says you get to chose when or how. And we're all going to die at some point. Am I going to ride the NYC subway right now? No, but I'm not going to live like a bubble boy either. There have been plagues all through history. This isn't the first, and it certainly won't be the last. I plan on enjoying the time I have left, because I'm going to be dead along time.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on May 07, 2020, 09:43:33 AM
Oh, thank goodness. It's you. I'd hoped you found someone else to stalk by now. I think you're really my ex in disguise.

Against my better judgment, I clicked the "You are ignoring this user. Show me the post." link. Predictable.

 :csm:

Still with calling everyone a chickenshit, even in your new, silly, passive way.

For us - the non-sociopaths who might actually care about someone - it's real. It's a problem for a lot of people. Especially those in health care. And for those of us with loved ones in health care. So... there's that.

Richard Cranium, my brother is a nurse in Syracuse. He caught it, recovered, and then volunteered for NYC. He's on the front lines of this. He agrees it's time to take reasonable precautions and open up. As far as your ex, you're the dummy who married her.

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on May 07, 2020, 10:19:11 AM

Personally, I thought the image was rather humorous, and almost representative of how some states are reacting :shrug:



You're not wrong- but neither is Chornbe.

Indeed. I was just more polite about it  :naughty:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on May 07, 2020, 10:30:21 AM
It is humorous, and it was intended to be so. It's humorous because there's some truth to it. It was also intended to go along with a point that nickybcareful made.

Chornie needs to stop flattering himself.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: bedlamite on May 07, 2020, 01:11:20 PM
https://www.boredpanda.com/coop-schooling-lockdown-retired-marine/?cexp_id=28276&cexp_var=21&_f=featured (https://www.boredpanda.com/coop-schooling-lockdown-retired-marine/?cexp_id=28276&cexp_var=21&_f=featured)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


 :rofl:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: maddjack on May 08, 2020, 08:09:31 AM
The reasonable precautions thing would work IF people would follow guide lines. After what I saw at two different stores yesterday this is a freakin pipe dream. Its a state mandate here to wear a mask in a store, about 25% are not and nobody is enforcing it. They claim they wipe everything down to keep you safe, nobody was wiping anything. My point is your only hope is to make sure you are taking precautions,hand wash and sanitize like crazy,and hope.
I am not living in fear,but I am not ready to get sick and die yet either. I am holding on to the hope for a treatment that is effective and in the future a TESTED ,proven vaccine.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on May 08, 2020, 08:59:27 AM
Well, you can always stock up on TP.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on May 08, 2020, 09:45:07 AM
More and more information becoming available on how destructive and disruptive this thing is to the whole body.

https://apple.news/ANDwa0YxLRYWVAw_C1KDMWQ
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: maddjack on May 08, 2020, 09:47:13 AM
More and more information becoming available on how destructive and disruptive this thing is to the whole body.

https://apple.news/ANDwa0YxLRYWVAw_C1KDMWQ
Yeah the thing that everyone ignores. Also its crazy what the kids are getting up in NY, similar to Kawasaki disease
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on May 08, 2020, 10:26:00 AM
More and more information becoming available on how destructive and disruptive this thing is to the whole body.

https://apple.news/ANDwa0YxLRYWVAw_C1KDMWQ

This is why I hate the disinformation that passes as "news."

We know HIV and other gene sequences have been spliced into this virus...it IS manufactured, not natural.  HIV hijacks the body's immune system.  When tinkering with DNA, you may get more than for which you bargained.  A sequence to empower a virus to be able to infect humans might do much more.

Doctors who have followed ALL the evidence out there from those actually testing this virus would know it's a monster that may have numerous vectors to attack the body.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on May 08, 2020, 10:29:45 AM
 :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

No, Mike. We don't know that (created/splicing). Some people presume it. It fits their narrative.
Other people denounce it. It fits that narrative, too.

Nature and Occam are often playing with the same razor. Maybe this time they are. Maybe they're not.

We do not know. Now you're stating narrative-fitting supposition as fact.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on May 08, 2020, 01:27:00 PM
We do not know. Now you're stating narrative-fitting supposition as fact.

When I've been following reports from people who understand virology and genetics who can show X sequences that have 100% matches to other viruses and that the odds of that happening without intervention just once is almost impossible, that all of them are that way is just more reason to conclude it didn't happen naturally.  Then you consider where it originated...a nation that breaks every international law they claim by which to abide, and it's not a hard conclusion to reach.

You will only get proof if we can find hard documents from Wuhan stating they made the virus...which will never happen as China has gone in and purged the site of all records and samples that investigators might find to determine what really went on inside that facility.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on May 08, 2020, 01:52:43 PM
We do not know. Now you're stating narrative-fitting supposition as fact.

When I've been following reports from people who understand virology and genetics who can show X sequences that have 100% matches to other viruses and that the odds of that happening without intervention just once is almost impossible, that all of them are that way is just more reason to conclude it didn't happen naturally.  Then you consider where it originated...a nation that breaks every international law they claim by which to abide, and it's not a hard conclusion to reach.

You will only get proof if we can find hard documents from Wuhan stating they made the virus...which will never happen as China has gone in and purged the site of all records and samples that investigators might find to determine what really went on inside that facility.


Plenty of labs outside of China have sequenced the covid-19 gene and all, every single one, has stated it's a naturally occurring virus.

Every. Single. Lab.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on May 08, 2020, 01:55:10 PM
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

No, Mike. We don't know that (created/splicing). Some people presume it. It fits their narrative.
Other people denounce it. It fits that narrative, too.

Nature and Occam are often playing with the same razor. Maybe this time they are. Maybe they're not.

We do not know. Now you're stating narrative-fitting supposition as fact.

splicing. heh. some of the sequence on this virus is the same as HIV-therefore it must be man-made and spliced into a standard, dangerous corona virus.

twaddle.

given that humans and goldfish share 95% of the same genes...

it is a virus that has jumped species. the end.

(except China does have a lot of questions to answer and  all humans need to stop eating wildlife).
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on May 08, 2020, 02:26:42 PM
Since when has a pandemic arose from eating venison?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on May 08, 2020, 02:35:39 PM
Since when has a pandemic arose from eating venison?

good grief, Chris. Analysis, analysis!
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Black Hills on May 08, 2020, 02:46:22 PM
Since when has a pandemic arose from eating venison?

not yet, but there is concern for the near future:
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/10/6/03-1082_article
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on May 08, 2020, 02:50:16 PM
Yes, we know all about CWD. It's not transmissible. It's a prion, not a virus.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on May 08, 2020, 02:53:28 PM
Yes, we know all about CWD. It's not transmissible. It's a prion, not a virus.

Like Mad Cow Disease?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on May 08, 2020, 03:03:28 PM
http://cwd-info.org/faq/ (http://cwd-info.org/faq/)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on May 08, 2020, 04:25:32 PM
and  all humans need to stop eating wildlife).

Let's not get crazy.  I started my day by eating some wildlife.   :bigsmile:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on May 08, 2020, 06:21:38 PM
and  all humans need to stop eating wildlife).

Let's not get crazy.  I started my day by eating some wildlife.   :bigsmile:

I do not intend to stop eating wild game including bush meat ... that is after it’s safe to stop hiding from Coronavirus. 
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on May 08, 2020, 10:09:25 PM
Plenty of labs outside of China have sequenced the covid-19 gene and all, every single one, has stated it's a naturally occurring virus.

Every. Single. Lab.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Black Hills on May 08, 2020, 10:44:15 PM
Yes, we know all about CWD. It's not transmissible. It's a prion, not a virus.

not yet, but there is concern that it may be in the future, similar to this, which is what my ex-father in law died from:  https://www.cdc.gov/prions/cjd/index.html (https://www.cdc.gov/prions/cjd/index.html)

they figure he got it from a squirrel he shot...and a miserable way to go.

CWD info if you're so inclined: https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cwd (https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cwd)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on May 08, 2020, 11:51:43 PM
Heh.  I used to use "Jakob Kreuzfeldt" as my handle on a number of online forums.  In fact, I think I even socked on ST.N with that handle.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on May 09, 2020, 01:33:29 AM
and  all humans need to stop eating wildlife).

Let's not get crazy.  I started my day by eating some wildlife.   :bigsmile:

bat or pangolin?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on May 09, 2020, 04:06:50 AM
Plenty of labs outside of China have sequenced the covid-19 gene and all, every single one, has stated it's a naturally occurring virus.

Every. Single. Lab.

So, explain how doing GAIN OF FUNCTION experiments (making it transmittable to humans) on a virus that does not infect humans is “naturally occurring.”  That is what was being considered in North Carolina before China continued the work in Wuhan.  It’s not like we’ve had any shortage of “scientists” who’ve been caught fudging reports and studies to get behind a political agenda (e.g., global warming/climate change).

So many entities are terrified of China that I don’t doubt pressure is being applied to control the narrative.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: thatguy on May 09, 2020, 06:06:14 AM
Yes, we know all about CWD. It's not transmissible. It's a prion, not a virus.

Chronic Wasting Disease is caused by a prion,it is not the prion. Just like Ebola is caused by a virus but is not the virus. It's the body's reaction to the invasion of the foreign object. And it's unknown whether CWD will transfer. It's fairly common around here. I know I won't take a deer that doesn't look perfectly healthy. Simply not worth being wrong.

Science...........it's what's for dinner.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on May 09, 2020, 08:56:36 AM
https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/11197870/masturbating-helps-boost-immune-systems-fight-off-infections-during-coronvirus/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/11197870/masturbating-helps-boost-immune-systems-fight-off-infections-during-coronvirus/)

And to think they said I wrecked my cousin's wedding! That'll show them.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on May 09, 2020, 09:39:34 AM
Plenty of labs outside of China have sequenced the covid-19 gene and all, every single one, has stated it's a naturally occurring virus.

Every. Single. Lab.

So, explain how doing GAIN OF FUNCTION experiments (making it transmittable to humans) on a virus that does not infect humans is “naturally occurring.”  That is what was being considered in North Carolina before China continued the work in Wuhan.  It’s not like we’ve had any shortage of “scientists” who’ve been caught fudging reports and studies to get behind a political agenda (e.g., global warming/climate change).

So many entities are terrified of China that I don’t doubt pressure is being applied to control the narrative.

WHAT IS “GAIN OF FUNCTION”?

Given that symbolic language is the basis for much of human communication, we begin with terminology and dissect the phrase “gain of function,” or GOF. When applied to influenza virus research, the term GOF has taken on the meaning of something dangerous, risky, and possibly nefarious. However, GOF means exactly what it says, that the entity in question has gained a new property. In the case of influenza virus, the concern regarding GOF has been associated with the acquisition of a new function, such as mammalian transmissibility, increased virulence for humans, or evasion of existing host immunity. For example, passage of H5N1 virus in ferrets allowed selection for variants with ferret-to-ferret transmissibility, and the GOF was the acquisition of mammalian transmission. However, the same type of experiment can be beneficial to humanity, since the principle of passage in a nonnative host can be used to generate attenuated vaccines. For example, some human-pathogenic viruses, such as poliovirus, were attenuated by passage in cells of another species, such as monkey cells. In those experiments, the GOF was replication in another species, and this property reduced the efficiency of replication in human cells, thus resulting in a new attenuated strain that could be used as a vaccine. Indeed, those attenuated viruses manifested a GOF, namely, attenuation. One of us recently published a GOF experiment with BK polyomavirus, in which mutation of a regulatory microRNA (miRNA) greatly enhanced replication (10). Hence, GOF is a powerful experimental tool that is routinely used in biomedical research, and the concern with influenza virus research is not gain of function per se but rather the selection of variants with increased mammalian transmissibility and virulence that could affect human populations if there were deliberate or accidental release. It is clear that GOF is a problematic phrase, and this term has acquired a particular meaning in the ongoing debate and particularly in the lay media. Unfortunately, the term GOF has come to only represent something that can be used to confer dangerous properties to a microbe. Despite these problems in terminology, we use the expression GOF in this essay with the understanding that we are referring to the narrow category of experiments that involve primarily changes to the virulence and transmissibility of PPP, such as influenza virus. Although influenza virus is the subject of the ongoing debate, it is important to note that these issues extend to other PPP, such as severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) coronavirus.



From https://mbio.asm.org/content/5/4/e01730-14 (https://mbio.asm.org/content/5/4/e01730-14).  I'm sure if you spent more than the minute I did googling you could find other explanations.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on May 09, 2020, 09:54:55 AM
Clever trick there, trying to beguile folks with big words copied from some web page.  I don't need no esoteric explanation from some erudite Renaissance man, my gut tells me to believe.  Touche!   

 :blbl:  Your post made me smile.  It was a big, wide, dopey smile.  Reading that post made my head spin.

This one sentence, in particular, is an outstanding piece of prose:

"Indeed, those attenuated viruses manifested a GOF, namely, attenuation."

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on May 09, 2020, 02:33:53 PM
Plenty of labs outside of China have sequenced the covid-19 gene and all, every single one, has stated it's a naturally occurring virus.

Every. Single. Lab.

So, explain how doing GAIN OF FUNCTION experiments (making it transmittable to humans) on a virus that does not infect humans is “naturally occurring.”  That is what was being considered in North Carolina before China continued the work in Wuhan.  It’s not like we’ve had any shortage of “scientists” who’ve been caught fudging reports and studies to get behind a political agenda (e.g., global warming/climate change).

So many entities are terrified of China that I don’t doubt pressure is being applied to control the narrative.

I believe you to be ill informed on some important parts of biology. :\
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on May 09, 2020, 02:34:53 PM
and so on...

https://thefederalist.com/2020/05/08/icu-doctor-what-i-wish-people-knew-about-coronavirus/

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: bedlamite on May 09, 2020, 06:13:10 PM
https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/11197870/masturbating-helps-boost-immune-systems-fight-off-infections-during-coronvirus/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/11197870/masturbating-helps-boost-immune-systems-fight-off-infections-during-coronvirus/)

And to think they said I wrecked my cousin's wedding! That'll show them.

https://thegrio.com/2020/04/01/amazon-worker-strike-covid-19-dildos/ (https://thegrio.com/2020/04/01/amazon-worker-strike-covid-19-dildos/)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on May 09, 2020, 08:38:59 PM
Also, why is China purging the Wuhan facility, destroying files, etc.  If the studies were innocent and the release accidental, why try to cover it up?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on May 09, 2020, 09:06:58 PM
Also, why is China purging the Wuhan facility, destroying files, etc.  If the studies were innocent and the release accidental, why try to cover it up?


China's Communist Party has a long-ingrained habit of covering up anything that looks even slightly bad for them.  The information being deleted is anything that shows how badly the local officials (and then national officials) bungled the initial response.

Bad PR is anathema to that crowd.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on May 09, 2020, 09:38:48 PM
I like this quote from that piece Chornbe posted:

“Conspiracy theorizing is our attempt to explain away the fear we feel when we discover we are not all-powerful. We want to rationalize a malicious actor that will make us feel good by demonizing.”

https://thefederalist.com/2020/05/08/icu-doctor-what-i-wish-people-knew-about-coronavirus/
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on May 09, 2020, 10:54:08 PM
and  all humans need to stop eating wildlife).

Let's not get crazy.  I started my day by eating some wildlife.   :bigsmile:

bat or pangolin?

It's not bat season yet.  Soon, very soon.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on May 10, 2020, 10:33:51 AM
Yes, we know all about CWD. It's not transmissible. It's a prion, not a virus.

Chronic Wasting Disease is caused by a prion,it is not the prion. Just like Ebola is caused by a virus but is not the virus. It's the body's reaction to the invasion of the foreign object. And it's unknown whether CWD will transfer. It's fairly common around here. I know I won't take a deer that doesn't look perfectly healthy. Simply not worth being wrong.

Science...........it's what's for dinner.

Well sure, it's highly recommend not to eat venison from a deer that's obviously sick. Simple pragmatism.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: maddjack on May 10, 2020, 10:34:30 AM
Should I refrain from watching any Batman movies? It might be transmissible from High Def Blueray. Maybe he and Albert started the whole thing.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: thatguy on May 10, 2020, 10:40:28 AM
Yes, we know all about CWD. It's not transmissible. It's a prion, not a virus.

Chronic Wasting Disease is caused by a prion,it is not the prion. Just like Ebola is caused by a virus but is not the virus. It's the body's reaction to the invasion of the foreign object. And it's unknown whether CWD will transfer. It's fairly common around here. I know I won't take a deer that doesn't look perfectly healthy. Simply not worth being wrong.

Science...........it's what's for dinner.

Well sure, it's highly recommend not to eat venison from a deer that's obviously sick. Simple pragmatism.

So you're a black or white kinda guy eh? Perhaps if I said I'll only take deer that are exemplary.

BTW that would be recommended wouldn't it?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on May 10, 2020, 10:46:31 AM
Dude you take whatever deer you want that's permissable by law. I'll pass on the obviously sick ones.

See? It doesn't have to be difficult.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: bedlamite on May 10, 2020, 11:25:38 AM
Should I refrain from watching any Batman movies? It might be transmissible from High Def Blueray. Maybe he and Albert started the whole thing.

You're fine as long as you don't stream them on your computer, that's how you catch a virus.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: thatguy on May 10, 2020, 12:21:41 PM
Dr. Baric believes the virus crossed over from people working bat caves for guano to sell as fertilizer. And not from consumption.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on May 10, 2020, 03:04:01 PM
Should I refrain from watching any Batman movies? It might be transmissible from High Def Blueray. Maybe he and Albert started the whole thing.


While you might be on to a solid lead in the evidentiary chain, you should have posted this on the Conspiracy Theory thread.   :twofinger:

Link to interesting piece

What We Don’t Know About Coronavirus Origins Might Kill Us
By Jason Gale, Robert Langreth and John Lauerman, May 10, 2020, 9:00 AM EDT, updated at May 10, 2020, 9:00 AM EDT (https://apple.news/A4g1tO8WuSaODOqpQYqWEfw)
Quote
Scientists who have studied the genetics of the virus are convinced it’s of natural origin rather than designed in a lab. An accidental release from the research center in Wuhan is possible in theory, but “just so implausible,” according to Stanley Perlman, a professor of microbiology and immunology at the University of Iowa, who has visited the facility and rates it highly.

One reason is the reputation of Shi Zhengli, a 56-year-old deputy director of the Wuhan Institute of Virology. In 2004, Shi found a natural reservoir of coronaviruses in bat caves near Kunming, a city in China’s southern Yunnan province. In February she published a paper in the journal Nature saying that the genomic sequence of the new pathogen was 96% identical to that of a coronavirus identified in Yunnan.

Shi told Scientific American that a review of genetic characteristics of viruses she’s worked with in the lab didn’t match those of the coronavirus spreading in humans. In a social media post the virologist said she would “swear on my life” the pathogen causing havoc had nothing to do with her lab. U.S. Secretary of State Michael Pompeo has backed off earlier claims of “enormous evidence” that the virus escaped from a Wuhan laboratory.


FYI. Scientific American has been spoofed before. It’s a classic paper.  Link Here (http://www.energyadvocate.com/sokal.pdf)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on May 10, 2020, 03:40:38 PM
More from the natural development side by other scientists. TL;DR: The specific adaptation of the spike protein that binds human Ace2 is so unique and unusual, no one could have thought of it or even suspected it to bioengineer it. Original paper is cited.

https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2020/03/26/genomic-research-points-to-natural-origin-of-covid-19/ (https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2020/03/26/genomic-research-points-to-natural-origin-of-covid-19/)

The list of current sequences available - al 2433 of them and the one reference sequence:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/genbank/sars-cov-2-seqs/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/genbank/sars-cov-2-seqs/)

You can purchase a DNA alignment program and do your own sequence comparisons plus look up the original references. You'll need to bone up on DNA analysis so you know what constitutes 'identity'. Remember that Mother Nature is pretty conservative and reuses the same sequences over and over again... yet there is no such thing as 100% identity. If that is reported, it is suspect.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on May 10, 2020, 10:45:05 PM
But... but... but... china and hiv and labs!!!!!!BBQWTF
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on May 10, 2020, 11:09:48 PM
From a doc in the trenches who got it. Good read.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/finally-virus-got-me-scientist-who-fought-ebola-and-hiv-reflects-facing-death-covid-19 (https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/finally-virus-got-me-scientist-who-fought-ebola-and-hiv-reflects-facing-death-covid-19)

Quote
Many people think COVID-19 kills 1% of patients, and the rest get away with some flulike symptoms. But the story gets more complicated. Many people will be left with chronic kidney and heart problems. Even their neural system is disrupted. There will be hundreds of thousands of people worldwide, possibly more, who will need treatments such as renal dialysis for the rest of their lives. The more we learn about the coronavirus, the more questions arise. We are learning while we are sailing. That’s why I get so annoyed by the many commentators on the sidelines who, without much insight, criticize the scientists and policymakers trying hard to get the epidemic under control. That’s very unfair.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on May 10, 2020, 11:33:00 PM
A friend of mine is in the hospital with covid-19. When I say "in the hospital", it sounds pretty fucking benign.

The reality is far from that.

This friend is a fire fighter- his second career. He used to be a professional athlete, if you count Major League Baseball players as athletes. In any case, a very fit, strong guy, and in his late 30s, far from old.

So, back to the hospital stay. He is in a medically induced coma, attached to a machine that is doing his breathing for him.  In the meanwhile, he's suffered a deep vein thrombosis and two, yes two, brain surgeries because of aneurysms.

If he ever recovers enough to wake up, his life is forever and completely altered. Nobody knows what neurological damage he's suffered, or what his recovery might even look like.  As has been seen in other covid patients, he may suffer serious organ and long term lung damage as well.

Ricky is never, ever going to get back to the life he had before he caught this "just a flu".
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on May 11, 2020, 12:17:21 AM
sorry to hear that. and a sad but good point to make. this is not just flu. it is not some leftist plot.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Vulcanbill on May 11, 2020, 07:18:20 AM
some thoughts on transmission:

https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them (https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them)

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: chornbe on May 11, 2020, 08:30:54 AM
A friend of mine is in the hospital with covid-19. When I say "in the hospital", it sounds pretty fucking benign.

The reality is far from that.

This friend is a fire fighter- his second career. He used to be a professional athlete, if you count Major League Baseball players as athletes. In any case, a very fit, strong guy, and in his late 30s, far from old.

So, back to the hospital stay. He is in a medically induced coma, attached to a machine that is doing his breathing for him.  In the meanwhile, he's suffered a deep vein thrombosis and two, yes two, brain surgeries because of aneurysms.

If he ever recovers enough to wake up, his life is forever and completely altered. Nobody knows what neurological damage he's suffered, or what his recovery might even look like.  As has been seen in other covid patients, he may suffer serious organ and long term lung damage as well.

Ricky is never, ever going to get back to the life he had before he caught this "just a flu".

Sweet fucking Christ, I'm so sorry man. This is the kind of stuff people are often - and too often, willfully - overlooking. This disease has some scary secondary effects, and in a lot of cases like Ricky's, permanent and life changing. I'm so sorry, man :( Best vibes all around.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: maddjack on May 11, 2020, 08:40:10 AM
A friend of mine is in the hospital with covid-19. When I say "in the hospital", it sounds pretty fucking benign.

The reality is far from that.

This friend is a fire fighter- his second career. He used to be a professional athlete, if you count Major League Baseball players as athletes. In any case, a very fit, strong guy, and in his late 30s, far from old.

So, back to the hospital stay. He is in a medically induced coma, attached to a machine that is doing his breathing for him.  In the meanwhile, he's suffered a deep vein thrombosis and two, yes two, brain surgeries because of aneurysms.

If he ever recovers enough to wake up, his life is forever and completely altered. Nobody knows what neurological damage he's suffered, or what his recovery might even look like.  As has been seen in other covid patients, he may suffer serious organ and long term lung damage as well.

Ricky is never, ever going to get back to the life he had before he caught this "just a flu".
Wow , that's awful, prayers sent for him.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on May 11, 2020, 08:52:39 AM
My sympathies for your friend and all the essential workers who are suffering from this disease.   

We (personally speaking) are very fortunate.  They don’t deserve what they got. 

I still believe this beast can be managed with regional confinement and social distancing measures. 
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on May 11, 2020, 08:52:44 AM
Stress Pandemic Rx: Open Economy as Fast as Practical

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/05/10/stress_pandemic_rx_open_economy_as_fast_as_practical.html (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/05/10/stress_pandemic_rx_open_economy_as_fast_as_practical.html)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: thatguy on May 11, 2020, 09:32:24 AM
Stress Pandemic Rx: Open Economy as Fast as Practical

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/05/10/stress_pandemic_rx_open_economy_as_fast_as_practical.html (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/05/10/stress_pandemic_rx_open_economy_as_fast_as_practical.html)

That's an opinion piece. By a PoliSci professor. On a political site..................on the 'net.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: bedlamite on May 11, 2020, 09:57:24 AM
Stress Pandemic Rx: Open Economy as Fast as Practical

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/05/10/stress_pandemic_rx_open_economy_as_fast_as_practical.html (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/05/10/stress_pandemic_rx_open_economy_as_fast_as_practical.html)

That's an opinion piece. By a PoliSci professor. On a political site..................on the 'net.

That doesn't mean its wrong.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on May 11, 2020, 10:04:11 AM
Stress Pandemic Rx: Open Economy as Fast as Practical

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/05/10/stress_pandemic_rx_open_economy_as_fast_as_practical.html (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/05/10/stress_pandemic_rx_open_economy_as_fast_as_practical.html)

That's an opinion piece. By a PoliSci professor. On a political site..................on the 'net.

That doesn't mean its wrong.

You're right. But it also doesn't make it correct. It just means that the reader needs to be savvy enough to see the difference between "fact" and "opinion", and that is a hard thing to come by these days.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on May 11, 2020, 10:11:32 AM
Of course it's an opinion piece. Regardless, it is factual.

If you don't believe there is anxiety, depression, drug OD's, suicides, medical workers laid off, hospitals closing etc etc etc you're beyond help. There is a very real other dark side to this. It's not all about covid deaths.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on May 11, 2020, 10:15:42 AM
Of course it's an opinion piece. Regardless, it is factual.

If you don't believe there is anxiety, depression, drug OD's suicides, medical workers laid off, hospitals closing etc etc etc you're beyond help. There is a very real other dark side to this. It's not all about covid deaths.

I didn't even open the link - I have no idea what the article is even about. My comment is purely on "opinion" vs "fact" :shrug:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on May 11, 2020, 10:16:40 AM
Sorry, I wasn't responding to you.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Black Hills on May 11, 2020, 11:10:15 AM
Sorry to hear about your friend Miles..
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on May 11, 2020, 11:14:05 AM
Video from an Irish perspective.

https://youtu.be/Avc6_ftzk3w
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on May 11, 2020, 11:20:58 AM
A friend of mine is in the hospital with covid-19. When I say "in the hospital", it sounds pretty fucking benign.

The reality is far from that.

This friend is a fire fighter- his second career. He used to be a professional athlete, if you count Major League Baseball players as athletes. In any case, a very fit, strong guy, and in his late 30s, far from old.

So, back to the hospital stay. He is in a medically induced coma, attached to a machine that is doing his breathing for him.  In the meanwhile, he's suffered a deep vein thrombosis and two, yes two, brain surgeries because of aneurysms.

If he ever recovers enough to wake up, his life is forever and completely altered. Nobody knows what neurological damage he's suffered, or what his recovery might even look like.  As has been seen in other covid patients, he may suffer serious organ and long term lung damage as well.

Ricky is never, ever going to get back to the life he had before he caught this "just a flu".

I am so sad to read this. My heart goes out to you, Ricky, and his family.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on May 11, 2020, 11:33:46 AM
received the results back for health workers who tested positive last week. 50% of community workers, 10% of inpatient. most asymptomatic.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on May 12, 2020, 10:58:16 AM
Take the time to watch this documentary.  It details the link between autism and the MMR vaccine...they were never pushing to stop vaccination.  The single measles, mumps and rubella vaccines are safe.  It’s the combined form that shows the link.  That big pharma pulled the single dose vaccines and pushed the MMR only served to deny parents the option of how their child receives the vaccinations.

Vaccines are not subject to the same scrutiny as other medications put onto the market.  Even when Canada pulled a vaccine for its proven link to adverse effects, the pharmaceutical company just pushed it to other nations after changing its brand name.

https://youtu.be/Kji5d3MOrQM
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Baxter on May 12, 2020, 12:04:49 PM
Take the time to watch this documentary.  It details the link between autism and the MMR vaccine...they were never pushing to stop vaccination.  The single measles, mumps and rubella vaccines are safe.  It’s the combined form that shows the link.  That big pharma pulled the single dose vaccines and pushed the MMR only served to deny parents the option of how their child receives the vaccinations.

Vaccines are not subject to the same scrutiny as other medications put onto the market.  Even when Canada pulled a vaccine for its proven link to adverse effects, the pharmaceutical company just pushed it to other nations after changing its brand name.

https://youtu.be/Kji5d3MOrQM

I disagree.

The issue came about because medical science kept learning how to diagnose autism at ever earlier ages.  Within recent time, autism couldn't be diagnosed before school age, but then it became diagnosable at younger ages, typically now around three.  For a brief time, the earliest age at which autism could be diagnosed corresponded to the age at which the MMR vaccine was typically administered.  This was when some people began to suspect a link between the MMR vaccine and autism.  But correlation is not causation.  And the science has now evolved to where autism can sometimes be diagnosed in infants who have not yet received the MMR vaccine.  This contradicts the perceived link between the MMR vaccine and autism.

And there's still the question of why so many people throughout history have had autism--or at least its symptoms--before the MMR vaccine was developed. 

I pay close attention to these issues because I'm an Aspie (which wasn't discovered until adulthood, I was just considered to be introverted most of my life).  And I never received the MMR vaccine as I had the stand-alones which were used before the MMR was developed.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Baxter on May 12, 2020, 12:11:35 PM
A friend of mine is in the hospital with covid-19. When I say "in the hospital", it sounds pretty fucking benign.

The reality is far from that.

This friend is a fire fighter- his second career. He used to be a professional athlete, if you count Major League Baseball players as athletes. In any case, a very fit, strong guy, and in his late 30s, far from old.

So, back to the hospital stay. He is in a medically induced coma, attached to a machine that is doing his breathing for him.  In the meanwhile, he's suffered a deep vein thrombosis and two, yes two, brain surgeries because of aneurysms.

If he ever recovers enough to wake up, his life is forever and completely altered. Nobody knows what neurological damage he's suffered, or what his recovery might even look like.  As has been seen in other covid patients, he may suffer serious organ and long term lung damage as well.

Ricky is never, ever going to get back to the life he had before he caught this "just a flu".

My sympathies--unfortunately your friend isn't the only healthy person to have such life-altering consequences from this pandemic.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on May 12, 2020, 12:40:42 PM
The issue came about because medical science kept learning how to diagnose autism at ever earlier ages.  Within recent time, autism couldn't be diagnosed before school age, but then it became diagnosable at younger ages, typically now around three.  For a brief time, the earliest age at which autism could be diagnosed corresponded to the age at which the MMR vaccine was typically administered.  This was when some people began to suspect a link between the MMR vaccine and autism.  But correlation is not causation.  And the science has now evolved to where autism can sometimes be diagnosed in infants who have not yet received the MMR vaccine.  This contradicts the perceived link between the MMR vaccine and autism.

And there's still the question of why so many people throughout history have had autism--or at least its symptoms--before the MMR vaccine was developed. 

I pay close attention to these issues because I'm an Aspie (which wasn't discovered until adulthood, I was just considered to be introverted most of my life).  And I never received the MMR vaccine as I had the stand-alones which were used before the MMR was developed.

I respect your position, but they are pointing out the EXPLOSION in cases, and that kids have and are having adverse reactions to the MMR vaccine.  Being able to diagnose autism sooner doesn't explain a normal child suddenly manifesting severe autism symptoms after a violent reaction to a vaccination.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on May 12, 2020, 03:09:56 PM
Take the time to watch this documentary.  It details the link between autism and the MMR vaccine...they were never pushing to stop vaccination.  The single measles, mumps and rubella vaccines are safe.  It’s the combined form that shows the link.  That big pharma pulled the single dose vaccines and pushed the MMR only served to deny parents the option of how their child receives the vaccinations.

Vaccines are not subject to the same scrutiny as other medications put onto the market.  Even when Canada pulled a vaccine for its proven link to adverse effects, the pharmaceutical company just pushed it to other nations after changing its brand name.

https://youtu.be/Kji5d3MOrQM

I disagree.

The issue came about because medical science kept learning how to diagnose autism at ever earlier ages.  Within recent time, autism couldn't be diagnosed before school age, but then it became diagnosable at younger ages, typically now around three.  For a brief time, the earliest age at which autism could be diagnosed corresponded to the age at which the MMR vaccine was typically administered.  This was when some people began to suspect a link between the MMR vaccine and autism.  But correlation is not causation.  And the science has now evolved to where autism can sometimes be diagnosed in infants who have not yet received the MMR vaccine.  This contradicts the perceived link between the MMR vaccine and autism.

And there's still the question of why so many people throughout history have had autism--or at least its symptoms--before the MMR vaccine was developed. 

I pay close attention to these issues because I'm an Aspie (which wasn't discovered until adulthood, I was just considered to be introverted most of my life).  And I never received the MMR vaccine as I had the stand-alones which were used before the MMR was developed.

^What he said.  It is just bveing diagnosed better.  I can name the kids in my class in school that had Aspberger's.  Back in the day they were just "a little different."

I respect your position, but they are pointing out the EXPLOSION in cases, and that kids have and are having adverse reactions to the MMR vaccine.  Being able to diagnose autism sooner doesn't explain a normal child suddenly manifesting severe autism symptoms after a violent reaction to a vaccination.

I will tell you right now- that data is not good.  As a teacher for 27 years now I can also look at class pictures and diagnose kids that were Aspberger's but weren't diagnosed at that time.  Diagnosing is WAY better now.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on May 12, 2020, 06:11:18 PM
 :tinfoil:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on May 12, 2020, 06:54:21 PM
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1124634/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1124634/)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on May 12, 2020, 07:45:56 PM
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1124634/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1124634/)

Makes you wonder why this is a thing still.

State actor disinformation? Maybe I'll head over to the conspiracy thread....:tinfoil:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on May 12, 2020, 08:33:30 PM
A while back I read an english study on the subject.  Looking for answers to this question, they went and canvassed thousands of old folks- people who were kids back before vaccines.

It turns out, the incidence of autism amongst the elderly is just as high as it is in kids.  They just never got labelled as such when young because nobody had identified the syndrome. 

Back when they were kids they were "just a bit off" as Clay mentioned above.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Baxter on May 12, 2020, 08:35:59 PM
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1124634/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1124634/)

Makes you wonder why this is a thing still.

State actor disinformation? Maybe I'll head over to the conspiracy thread....:tinfoil:

Reliable news sources have reported on a link between a Russian disinformation campaign and the antivaxxer movement:  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45294192 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45294192)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on May 12, 2020, 09:05:48 PM
^That's over a year and a half old.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Baxter on May 12, 2020, 09:12:58 PM
^That's over a year and a half old.

Yes, and nothing has been done about it!
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: OHScot on May 12, 2020, 09:26:09 PM

I will tell you right now- that data is not good.  As a teacher for 27 years now I can also look at class pictures and diagnose kids that were Aspberger's but weren't diagnosed at that time.  Diagnosing is WAY better now.
[/quote]

You can look back at photos of kids from broken homes, drug addled parents, wide spread poor nutrition, no discipline and label them.  You must be quite a savant.  Or are you talking black and white photos from long ago. 

Have a friend that is a 30 year special ed teacher.  Has never seen so many messed up kids.  Are they all on the "Spectrum"  why yes.  Mostly because of popularity of the latest trend (diagnoses).  And a way to get them in a good slot.

I would guess not much is WAY better now but I am pretty old.  In fact right now I am thinking it is kind of sucky now.   
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on May 13, 2020, 12:01:08 AM
A while back I read an english study on the subject.  Looking for answers to this question, they went and canvassed thousands of old folks- people who were kids back before vaccines.

It turns out, the incidence of autism amongst the elderly is just as high as it is in kids.  They just never got labelled as such when young because nobody had identified the syndrome. 

Back when they were kids they were "just a bit off" as Clay mentioned above.

Twp (pronounced a bit like tuup) as we used to call it in Wales.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Cablebandit on May 13, 2020, 07:00:51 AM
Make "the spectrum" large enough and everyone ends up on it.   


Makes it easier to push pills and bill insurance companies.....
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: radon222 on May 13, 2020, 07:01:00 AM
The Should I stay or Should I go Test  (https://jimmeruk.com/stayathome/?fbclid=IwAR0Fmo25R5DylifnbRwo7goIKRs8Vrk8mJDqMV3no5ZnCBUq2MTrf6c6rJg)

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on May 13, 2020, 07:58:00 AM
Make "the spectrum" large enough and everyone ends up on it.   


Makes it easier to push pills and bill insurance companies.....


It’s a lot easier to hand out pills and make accommodations than to address the underlying issue. 

And it’s less costly.  Who wouldn’t want that.   

Now leave me alone.  I’m trying to decide whether I want to go outside or not. 
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Baxter on May 13, 2020, 08:48:50 AM
Make "the spectrum" large enough and everyone ends up on it.   


Makes it easier to push pills and bill insurance companies.....


It’s a lot easier to hand out pills and make accommodations than to address the underlying issue. 

And it’s less costly.  Who wouldn’t want that.   

Now leave me alone.  I’m trying to decide whether I want to go outside or not.

Let's hope that we don't reach the point where any personality difference is classified as a mental illness.  But … just to get further removed from the pandemic discussion … a sociology prof at my undergrad once explained an ongoing controversy between sociologists and psychologists that might be relevant to explain why safety net programs such as SSDI are being overutilized by some people who shouldn't need them.

Apparently the sociologists noticed that people with debilitating mental illnesses which prevent them from working seem to be concentrated among people who grew up either very rich or very poor.   From this, they conclude that when children of the middle class who don't either have a parental safety net or who aren't ok with living in poverty get a debilitating mental illness, they somehow manage to cope with the debilitating mental illness at least well enough to hold a job and get along in society.  Needless to say, the psychologists don't like the idea that they are over-diagnosing what is a "debilitating" mental illness.

This is not universal, and indeed some middle class folks don't manage to cope well enough to support themselves.   But the professor insisted the numbers were compelling to demonstrate that sufficiently motivated people can cope with more mental health issues than is generally thought.

My personal take on this is that giving people a way out of responsibility for their own lives will increase the numbers of people who choose failure as an option.  I don't believe that the solution is to eliminate programs supporting people with mental illness, nor is it to make qualification for those programs overly difficult.  But it's something that may warrant redesigning these programs to create incentives for people to support themselves.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Vulcanbill on May 13, 2020, 09:09:20 AM
Make "the spectrum" large enough and everyone ends up on it.   


Makes it easier to push pills and bill insurance companies.....


It’s a lot easier to hand out pills and make accommodations than to address the underlying issue. 

And it’s less costly.  Who wouldn’t want that.   

Now leave me alone.  I’m trying to decide whether I want to go outside or not.

But it's something that may warrant redesigning these programs to create incentives for people to support themselves.

You need to meet more people.  Once properly jaded, you'll see the error of your ways.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Baxter on May 13, 2020, 10:46:05 AM
Make "the spectrum" large enough and everyone ends up on it.   


Makes it easier to push pills and bill insurance companies.....


It’s a lot easier to hand out pills and make accommodations than to address the underlying issue. 

And it’s less costly.  Who wouldn’t want that.   

Now leave me alone.  I’m trying to decide whether I want to go outside or not.

But it's something that may warrant redesigning these programs to create incentives for people to support themselves.

You need to meet more people.  Once properly jaded, you'll see the error of your ways.

And I thought this line was jaded enough:  "My personal take on this is that giving people a way out of responsibility for their own lives will increase the numbers of people who choose failure as an option."   :D
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on May 13, 2020, 12:51:38 PM
Make "the spectrum" large enough and everyone ends up on it.   


Makes it easier to push pills and bill insurance companies.....


It’s a lot easier to hand out pills and make accommodations than to address the underlying issue. 

And it’s less costly.  Who wouldn’t want that.   

Now leave me alone.  I’m trying to decide whether I want to go outside or not.

But it's something that may warrant redesigning these programs to create incentives for people to support themselves.

You need to meet more people.  Once properly jaded, you'll see the error of your ways.

And I thought this line was jaded enough:  "My personal take on this is that giving people a way out of responsibility for their own lives will increase the numbers of people who choose failure as an option."   :D

Agreed, keeping in mind that normal behavior is simply defined as what more than half the population is doing at any one given period of time. 
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: OHScot on May 15, 2020, 01:10:57 PM
Well I hope Chris does not take this personally...

Which Chris you say???  Why either or both of course.

Interesting comedy close to truth?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcUAG6t5aN8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcUAG6t5aN8)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on May 15, 2020, 03:10:30 PM
Why would I take that personally? Shared to my FB wall.  :thumbsup: :bigsmile:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: st2sam on May 15, 2020, 06:24:13 PM
Interesting comedy close to truth?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcUAG6t5aN8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcUAG6t5aN8)

 :bigok:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Baxter on May 15, 2020, 09:01:57 PM
It was a nice summer's day here, and all of the local fam was going to get together and have a social-distancing picnic in one of our yards.  But a sis-in-law came down with a fever.  We all decided to put the picnic off until next week.  And we are hoping for the best with the sis-in-law. There's a non-COVID virus getting around locally, hopefully it's just that, if anything.

The sis-in-law works at a large facility that provides everything from an independent living retirement community through skilled nursing.  Fortunately, her facility adopted strict procedures when this first hit the news, and they haven't had an outbreak like at a lot of other facilities. She's also a very responsible person, so even if she has COVID, she likely didn't pass it on to anyone at work because she would have been following the protocols very carefully.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on May 15, 2020, 10:03:24 PM
Hope your SIL recovers quickly.  We were going to have a fam social distance picnic today, but put ir off till next week in hopes of better weather.  Of course, today then turned out to be beautiful. 
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on May 15, 2020, 10:34:14 PM
That is scary, Baxter.  I hope your SIL just came down with something relatively benign.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Baxter on May 16, 2020, 10:31:28 AM
Thanks.

I haven't heard whether the test results are back yet.  She's much more concerned that she may have passed it on rather than being concerned for herself.  For the most part, that's the character of the family I married into.  I chose wisely.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: bedlamite on May 16, 2020, 01:15:51 PM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Bounce on May 16, 2020, 04:28:05 PM
[img ]https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/99346153_10219193172274050_8370489573087641600_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=RqgWrJGGmQcAX9vfNYb&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=e11813104ed512d8c6a040bd070a7205&oe=5EE4B203[/ img]

For an image to post, it has to end in an image file extension (like .jpg or .gif).
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on May 16, 2020, 04:33:12 PM
[img ]https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/99346153_10219193172274050_8370489573087641600_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=RqgWrJGGmQcAX9vfNYb&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=e11813104ed512d8c6a040bd070a7205&oe=5EE4B203[/ img]

For an image to post, it has to end in an image file extension (like .jpg or .gif).

Well I see an image.....?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on May 16, 2020, 05:39:51 PM
[img ]https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/99346153_10219193172274050_8370489573087641600_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=RqgWrJGGmQcAX9vfNYb&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=e11813104ed512d8c6a040bd070a7205&oe=5EE4B203[/ img]

For an image to post, it has to end in an image file extension (like .jpg or .gif).

Well I see an image.....?
So do I.  It may depend on which browser you are using on what type of device.   
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Bounce on May 17, 2020, 10:19:01 AM
This shows up for me.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on May 17, 2020, 01:37:41 PM

I will tell you right now- that data is not good.  As a teacher for 27 years now I can also look at class pictures and diagnose kids that were Aspberger's but weren't diagnosed at that time.  Diagnosing is WAY better now.

You can look back at photos of kids from broken homes, drug addled parents, wide spread poor nutrition, no discipline and label them.  You must be quite a savant.  Or are you talking black and white photos from long ago. 

Have a friend that is a 30 year special ed teacher.  Has never seen so many messed up kids.  Are they all on the "Spectrum"  why yes.  Mostly because of popularity of the latest trend (diagnoses).  And a way to get them in a good slot.

I would guess not much is WAY better now but I am pretty old.  In fact right now I am thinking it is kind of sucky now.   

I meant MY class pictures (from teaching or being a student- kids I knew), not random ones.  I can see a kid, think about who he was and the "quirks", and you know he probably would have tested on the spectrum.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: bedlamite on May 18, 2020, 09:26:23 AM
https://twitter.com/IslesBlog/status/1261700438375759874
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: nickybcareful on May 20, 2020, 04:06:05 PM
Hum...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NTsBJLU1nk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NTsBJLU1nk)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on May 21, 2020, 12:00:29 PM
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/02/paper-non-symptomatic-patient-transmitting-coronavirus-wrong?fbclid=IwAR1PhFFNEvOyyf2MyHlCzscZ9wCoBHHqJt6-9vxp_E6130XYMzL2XJmZY7c (https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/02/paper-non-symptomatic-patient-transmitting-coronavirus-wrong?fbclid=IwAR1PhFFNEvOyyf2MyHlCzscZ9wCoBHHqJt6-9vxp_E6130XYMzL2XJmZY7c)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Vulcanbill on May 21, 2020, 05:58:36 PM
I assume you realize that article is from Feb 3 and you're trying to make a point?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: coho on May 24, 2020, 01:43:29 PM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Bounce on May 25, 2020, 09:49:16 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufY0HmwhBKQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufY0HmwhBKQ)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on May 25, 2020, 09:57:16 AM
I don't care who you are, that's funny right thar!
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: OHScot on May 26, 2020, 07:37:14 AM
Good Save.

Understand teacher I can only read what you have typed on the screen.  Not able to pick your thoughts or meaning!  On the internet reading and comprehension is poor at best.

Why I am not a fan of social media in general.  Much lost meaning and expression.  Black and white shows up nicely shades of gray are lost and left to assessment from far away.


I meant MY class pictures (from teaching or being a student- kids I knew), not random ones.  I can see a kid, think about who he was and the "quirks", and you know he probably would have tested on the spectrum.
[/quote]
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on May 26, 2020, 07:53:00 AM
My wife, a former teacher, does the same thing.  The question is whether that represents inductive reasoning or affirmation.  I suspect it is a mix.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on June 09, 2020, 06:35:19 PM
A friend of mine is in the hospital with covid-19. When I say "in the hospital", it sounds pretty fucking benign.

The reality is far from that.

This friend is a fire fighter- his second career. He used to be a professional athlete, if you count Major League Baseball players as athletes. In any case, a very fit, strong guy, and in his late 30s, far from old.

So, back to the hospital stay. He is in a medically induced coma, attached to a machine that is doing his breathing for him.  In the meanwhile, he's suffered a deep vein thrombosis and two, yes two, brain surgeries because of aneurysms.

If he ever recovers enough to wake up, his life is forever and completely altered. Nobody knows what neurological damage he's suffered, or what his recovery might even look like.  As has been seen in other covid patients, he may suffer serious organ and long term lung damage as well.

Ricky is never, ever going to get back to the life he had before he caught this "just a flu".


So, an update on Ricky's condition.  His breathing stabilized and he seemed out of the woods, so they took him off the ventilator and discontinued the tranquilizers three weeks ago.

He still hasn't shown any sign of waking up.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Baxter on June 09, 2020, 08:02:09 PM
I hope he comes out of it ok.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on June 09, 2020, 09:14:27 PM
At this point, I just hope he comes out of it at all.




Wait.  That was too snarky.  I apologize.

Really, I've been taking Ricky's case pretty hard.  If he doesn't recover, if the brain damage is too severe, it will be a loss for humanity.  Ricky has always been the kind of guy who's happy to see you, quick to help, even quicker with a smile.  If he doesn't make it, not only will his wife and two small kids suffer the loss, so will all the rest of us that counted him as a friend.

There is no doubt that he contracted covid in his work as a first responder, work in which he knowingly put himself in danger to help others.  But that's the kind of guy he is.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Flyer on June 10, 2020, 08:19:59 AM
At this point, I just hope he comes out of it at all.




Wait.  That was too snarky.  I apologize.

Really, I've been taking Ricky's case pretty hard.  If he doesn't recover, if the brain damage is too severe, it will be a loss for humanity.  Ricky has always been the kind of guy who's happy to see you, quick to help, even quicker with a smile.  If he doesn't make it, not only will his wife and two small kids suffer the loss, so will all the rest of us that counted him as a friend.

There is no doubt that he contracted covid in his work as a first responder, work in which he knowingly put himself in danger to help others.  But that's the kind of guy he is.
Thoughts n'prayers...
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on June 10, 2020, 08:56:36 AM
Really, I've been taking Ricky's case pretty hard.  If he doesn't recover, if the brain damage is too severe, it will be a loss for humanity.  Ricky has always been the kind of guy who's happy to see you, quick to help, even quicker with a smile.  If he doesn't make it, not only will his wife and two small kids suffer the loss, so will all the rest of us that counted him as a friend.

There is no doubt that he contracted covid in his work as a first responder, work in which he knowingly put himself in danger to help others.  But that's the kind of guy he is.

Miles.... very hard to read this as I know you and Sherrie have taken it in the loss column this year. I can only offer you kindness and compassion in this time of hurt... and hope for some sort of peace for you, no matter how it turns out for Ricky. Oof... so tough, so hard to tell what will happen.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on June 10, 2020, 10:42:40 AM
Same here Miles.  Hoping for the best.


(PS: No one read it that way.  At least I didn't.)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on June 10, 2020, 01:50:32 PM
That's bad. I'm really sorry.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on June 10, 2020, 03:13:06 PM
Ouch. I am really sorry to hear this, miles  :(


So many people talk about the death rate of Covid-19, but I think that stories like yours are even scarier  :-\
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: R Doug on June 10, 2020, 06:14:58 PM
Yeah, it's all statistics until it hits close to home.  Thinking of you, your friend, and his family, Miles. 
Title: COVID-19
Post by: Smoothie on June 10, 2020, 07:12:47 PM
So many people talk about the death rate of Covid-19, but I think that stories like yours are even scarier  :-\


Yeah, this.

Miles, please keep us in the loop on Ricky's condition.   


Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on June 10, 2020, 08:08:29 PM
Ugh man, that sucks.  What others have said- and I'm sorry he's in this.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on June 13, 2020, 11:58:13 AM
Interesting perspective on risk assessment (https://slate.com/technology/2020/06/advice-on-reopening-activies-er-doctor.html?utm_source=pocket-newtab)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on June 23, 2020, 02:23:34 PM
Well, the infection rate in the UK is mainly below 1, so the virus is receding.

I knew 7 who died, but then I work in healthcare, so that was a forgone conclusion, that we would have a higher death rate. Most of them were Black African, male nurses. A couple of white middle aged men. No women.

As restrictions start to ease here, restrictions on us healthcare workers remain, because we are such a high risk of infecting others. It's been a long haul and pretty horrible at times.

But I worry that this virus, which loves a crowd, is just waiting for the easing of lockdown. There will be further local outbreaks but let us hope that there this is near the end of the European pandemic. The US worries me, as measures are so random and poorly managed and there seems to be so much resistance to basic common sense. I pray it will be okay for you.
Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: miles on June 23, 2020, 03:00:53 PM
So many people talk about the death rate of Covid-19, but I think that stories like yours are even scarier  :-\


Yeah, this.

Miles, please keep us in the loop on Ricky's condition.


The latest is that Ricky’s neurologist has written him off, convinced that he won’t ever come out of his coma. Ricky’s wife Jen is unwilling to give up hope and is trying to find another facility and doctor that will work more aggressively to bring Ricky back to consciousness.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on June 23, 2020, 03:02:15 PM
 :'(
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on June 23, 2020, 03:03:55 PM
This is a pic of Jen holding Ricky’s hand.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on June 23, 2020, 03:06:22 PM
Is there a fundraiser for Ricky?

This just breaks my heart.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on June 23, 2020, 08:17:07 PM
Jen had those “Cradle Strong” (Cradle is the family name) wristbands, but as far as I know never made them available as a fundraiser. The Torrance FD had a bunch of baseball jerseys made in his honor but again, I don’t think they were made available to the public.

Title: Re: COVID-19
Post by: Smoothie on June 23, 2020, 08:20:03 PM

The latest is that Ricky’s neurologist has written him off, convinced that he won’t ever come out of his coma. Ricky’s wife Jen is unwilling to give up hope and is trying to find another facility and doctor that will work more aggressively to bring Ricky back to consciousness.



Man, I’m just so very sorry to hear that.   
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Baxter on June 24, 2020, 09:33:22 AM
This is terrible.   :'(
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: CLAY on June 25, 2020, 09:55:00 PM
Ugh.  I'm sorry.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on June 28, 2020, 12:16:10 PM
I have good news to report.  Ricky woke up last night while his wife was there holding his hand.  He's recognizing family members and able to move to a limited extent.  Hopefully his recovery will now accelerate and he can leave the hospital soon.

This is such an incredible relief.


Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on June 28, 2020, 12:32:51 PM
I have good news to report.  Ricky woke up last night while his wife was there holding his hand.  He's recognizing family members and able to move to a limited extent.  Hopefully his recovery will now accelerate and he can leave the hospital soon.

This is such an incredible relief.

*exhale*

Please continue to provide updates, if you don't mind.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on June 28, 2020, 12:55:34 PM
I have good news to report.  Ricky woke up last night while his wife was there holding his hand.  He's recognizing family members and able to move to a limited extent.  Hopefully his recovery will now accelerate and he can leave the hospital soon.

This is such an incredible relief.

*exhale*

Please continue to provide updates, if you don't mind.

good news!
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: jadziadax8 on June 28, 2020, 02:58:59 PM
I have good news to report.  Ricky woke up last night while his wife was there holding his hand.  He's recognizing family members and able to move to a limited extent.  Hopefully his recovery will now accelerate and he can leave the hospital soon.

This is such an incredible relief.

Wow!  That is incredibly good news, Miles.  I'm so happy for their family.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Baxter on June 28, 2020, 03:47:31 PM
Amazing!  It's great that he's recognizing people and moving!
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Vulcanbill on June 28, 2020, 05:14:37 PM
Awesome indeed!!!  Bet Ricky’s neurologist feels like a heel. Go Jen!
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on June 28, 2020, 09:24:51 PM
Hope Ricky’s improvement continues exponentially
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: minimac on July 01, 2020, 09:33:32 AM
The latest is that Ricky’s neurologist has written him off, convinced that he won’t ever come out of his coma. Ricky’s wife Jen is unwilling to give up hope....

 So much for the "expert". Still probably a long way to go, but that's very encouraging.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on July 01, 2020, 11:38:50 PM
Ricky left the hospital today.  Not under his own power, as he's still far from being able to walk.  But he got to go home.

88 days since contracting COVID-19
80 days in the hospital
69 days on the ventilator
Five brain surgeries, one foot surgery, innumerable procedures

A few co-workers and friends were there:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login


visitors can't see pics , please register or login



Here is a video of him leaving the hospital.  He's up in front- you only actually get to see his gurney when the load him into the ambulance:

https://video.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t42.9040-2/106175081_269637257478095_6357340945725187798_n.mp4?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=985c63&efg=eyJybHIiOjYxNywicmxhIjo1NzUsInZlbmNvZGVfdGFnIjoibGVnYWN5X3NkIn0%3D&_nc_ohc=eV5eAnrMeEIAX_y0_mT&rl=617&vabr=343&_nc_ht=video-lax3-1.xx&oh=b7389092fecd818af2dfdb425fc2d808&oe=5EFD8217
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on July 02, 2020, 07:56:52 AM
That's pretty awesome!

Note: Link didn't work for me. 'URL is expired'
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on July 02, 2020, 08:33:17 AM
That’s great news.  One caravan at a time, as they say.   Keep us posted.

I know Ricky was doing his job.  And that makes a difference.  Without trying to shift the focus; Here’s a different kind of story. (https://apple.news/AS2rF3jFBSQCzGRRE1xkYlg).
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Baxter on July 02, 2020, 09:15:27 AM
Wow!

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on July 02, 2020, 06:50:03 PM
That’s great news.  One caravan at a time, as they say.   Keep us posted.

I know Ricky was doing his job.  And that makes a difference.  Without trying to shift the focus; Here’s a different kind of story. (https://apple.news/AS2rF3jFBSQCzGRRE1xkYlg).


From that article:
"A friend who was at the party reached out to Macias to say he had coronavirus, and he was aware of the diagnosis when he attended the gathering but didn't think he could infect anyone because he had no symptoms, Lopez said."



Fuck that fucking guy.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on July 02, 2020, 06:51:41 PM
That's pretty awesome!

Note: Link didn't work for me. 'URL is expired'


I tried to peel it out of facebook, but that wasn't working too well, so here's the link to the fb page: 

https://www.facebook.com/1657496375/videos/pcb.10215199799542464/10215199768781695/ (https://www.facebook.com/1657496375/videos/pcb.10215199799542464/10215199768781695/)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: bedlamite on July 03, 2020, 09:06:53 PM
https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study (https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on July 04, 2020, 03:42:25 AM
weird that wearing a mask or not has turned into some sort of IQ test.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Baxter on July 04, 2020, 07:01:10 AM
weird that wearing a mask or not has turned into some sort of IQ test.

It has, but not formally.  Most of my friends and fam, however, are separating people into "smart" and "dumb" based on mask usage. You know that saying about first impressions?  Well, it seems that folks are forming opinions about people based on mask usage.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on July 07, 2020, 01:49:07 PM
Bolsonaro now has it. I don't envy his catching the "little flu".

We are turning up a surprising number of people at the hospital (now we finally have the antigen test) who have had it. Mainly women. Which is curious as women have been no more exposed to cases than men. I'm negative, sadly.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on July 08, 2020, 06:28:23 AM
Proof that HCQ is safe and effective.  Also a bit on they omission of zinc and that people knew of the effectiveness of these options when they were tinkering around with coronavirus genes back in 2015.

https://youtu.be/1plkwhi5KUE
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: PatM on July 10, 2020, 08:42:55 PM
We may not get to visit this year. The border is closed to all un-essential traffic until Aug 31 but may remain closed until 2021  :(

Quote
The US-Canada border may remain closed until 2021 – RCI
The Canada-United States border will be closed to non-essential traffic until August 31 to contain Covid 19.
https://www.en24news.com/en/2020/07/the-us-canada-border-may-remain-closed-until-2021-rci.html (https://www.en24news.com/en/2020/07/the-us-canada-border-may-remain-closed-until-2021-rci.html)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: coho on July 10, 2020, 09:03:01 PM
Polite and prudent. Go Canada!
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Eh2zed on July 10, 2020, 09:58:37 PM
70,000 new cases today in the USA. Here's how I feel:

I'm standing on the edge of the ocean, let's say the freezing cold waters of the North Atlantic. Out in the water a mile or so away is a huge platform full of people, Americans, some of whom are my friends and all of them people I might have met or could meet in the future. They're waitresses in restaurants or gas station staff or cashiers at the grocery stores where we buy our food or the lady who registers us at the rv campground or the ticket taker at the museum or aquarium or the State trooper who gave me directions or or......
What are they doing? They're jumping off the platform into the water without life jackets into the ocean with them. Effectively they're committing suicide. But some of them are dragging others involuntarily with them. They're dying in front of my eyes.

I can't do anything. I can't help. I'm sad. We are citizens of different countries but that doesn't matter. They're people.

That's how I feel.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Flyer on July 11, 2020, 06:11:35 AM

That's how I feel.
:thumbsup:
A sad, pitiable analogy.
And all we can do is scream encouragement into the icy wind.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on July 11, 2020, 06:31:44 AM
A friend of mine in Seattle recently said it was like getting into a car with a drunk driver. Even worse: in the trunk of that car: completely helpless to the stupidity of the driver.


From over here, I am torn: I have no sympathy for drunk drivers and wouldn't be bothered if they wrapped themselves around a tree or drove off a cliff. But I am also afraid for my friend in the trunk, and hope that things end well for him. :shrug:  I look at the wilfully ignorant people in the US and just shake my head in frustration and sorrow.

I have never appreciated living in Europe more than I do now.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on July 11, 2020, 10:26:09 AM
“Me and my buddies all got lifetimes here” or at least that’s how I recall the lyrics go.   

Kinda like serving out your term on home confinement.   

I have never missed EU culture as much as I do this summer.  If I have to explain it, ... never mind. 

National Darwinism. 

[EDIT]

Interesting op-ed perspective What it is like in Europe right now from an American’s perspective (https://apple.news/AwA6n9Vo_TXmyOGQJcobpOw).
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on July 14, 2020, 02:25:04 PM
The controversy continues. All the Ways the Influential Hydroxychloroquine Study Was Crap (https://apple.news/Aqtq1ooRaSwmv78s_XZjnNQ)

“A controversial, highly influential study involving the drug hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for covid-19—one that helped launch months of research and failed clinical trials—has now been sharply criticized within the pages of the same scientific journal that published it. The new post-publication peer review highlights a variety of serious flaws in the study and concludes that the authors were “fully irresponsible” in how they presented their findings.”
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on July 14, 2020, 03:20:58 PM
you wouldn't believe the levels of crap from the right wing in the UK.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: jadziadax8 on July 14, 2020, 04:02:30 PM
This made me laugh and also die a little inside.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Baxter on July 14, 2020, 04:14:31 PM
you wouldn't believe the levels of crap from the right wing in the UK.

The common person in both UK and US crap seems to be Rupert Murdoch.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on July 15, 2020, 12:12:47 AM
you wouldn't believe the levels of crap from the right wing in the UK.

The common person in both UK and US crap seems to be Rupert Murdoch.

good point
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: bedlamite on July 15, 2020, 12:22:42 PM
https://aapsonline.org/how-should-governors-respond-to-covid-19-surge/ (https://aapsonline.org/how-should-governors-respond-to-covid-19-surge/)

Summary: Don't shut things down, give HCQ to high risk and exposed people.

Also, reported numbers are BS:

https://www.foxnews.com/health/coronavirus-update-florida-labs-not-reporting-negative-test-results-report (https://www.foxnews.com/health/coronavirus-update-florida-labs-not-reporting-negative-test-results-report)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on July 15, 2020, 12:51:59 PM
The information out there is sure controversial.  After reading that, I'm not sure if the AAPS needs to start self-medicating or if they should stop.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Vulcanbill on July 15, 2020, 01:10:43 PM
That's it.  I'm going to move to someplace really remote, buy a bunch of property, put up a couple gates so nobody can get near me, and only ever leave my house to go to work and back. 

tee hee hee
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on July 15, 2020, 01:21:20 PM
I am so done with... people. And the media. And the politicians.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Black Hills on July 15, 2020, 01:28:08 PM
meanwhile here in SD it's business as usual..  :-\
Apparently we don’t deal with quarantine we’ll:   https://www.kotatv.com/app/2020/07/15/south-dakotans-spent-468-hours-drunk-during-lockdown-survey-finds/ (https://www.kotatv.com/app/2020/07/15/south-dakotans-spent-468-hours-drunk-during-lockdown-survey-finds/)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on July 15, 2020, 03:07:05 PM
I’m not seeing a problem with that. 
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on July 16, 2020, 02:07:27 AM


https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2022483?query=featured_home (https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2022483?query=featured_home)

It's only early findings.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on July 16, 2020, 10:14:08 AM
Opinion: This new study shows how well a coronavirus vaccine must work before we can stop social distancing (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-new-study-shows-how-well-a-coronavirus-vaccine-must-work-before-we-can-stop-social-distancing-2020-07-15?mod=home-page)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on July 16, 2020, 10:16:35 AM
Opinion: This new study shows how well a coronavirus vaccine must work before we can stop social distancing (https://www.marketwatch.com/story/this-new-study-shows-how-well-a-coronavirus-vaccine-must-work-before-we-can-stop-social-distancing-2020-07-15?mod=home-page)

solid piece
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on July 16, 2020, 12:20:08 PM
With how the virus is mutating, unless a vaccine affects something common to all strains, odds are it will be like the flu shot...trying to compensate for last year's flu bugs.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on July 16, 2020, 01:16:59 PM
I thought that was the strategy behind developing an mRNA vaccine instead of a traditional vaccine.  Really nothing to worry about, if we cut testing by 75%, remove the data from the CDC, and follow that with a proper dosing regimen of hydroxyclorquine, the problem will go away like it never existed. 

I know, I know, it’s that subtle touch of cynicism that gets me into trouble every time. 
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on July 16, 2020, 01:26:47 PM
With how the virus is mutating, unless a vaccine affects something common to all strains, odds are it will be like the flu shot...trying to compensate for last year's flu bugs.

flu vaccines are a bit more sophisticated than that...
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on July 16, 2020, 01:27:27 PM
I thought that was the strategy behind developing an mRNA vaccine instead of a traditional vaccine.  Really nothing to worry about, if we cut testing by 75%, remove the data from the CDC, and follow that with a proper dosing regimen of hydroxyclorquine, the problem will go away like it never existed. 

I know, I know, it’s that subtle touch of cynicism that gets me into trouble every time.

Stop being cynical and endorse grocery products.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: TwistedT on July 16, 2020, 06:12:42 PM
I thought that was the strategy behind developing an mRNA vaccine instead of a traditional vaccine.  Really nothing to worry about, if we cut testing by 75%, remove the data from the CDC, and follow that with a proper dosing regimen of hydroxyclorquine, the problem will go away like it never existed. 

I know, I know, it’s that subtle touch of cynicism that gets me into trouble every time.

Stop being cynical and endorse grocery products.

 :lol:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: OHScot on July 16, 2020, 07:56:43 PM
Explains their stunning ~20% effectiveness.  Hope the next vaccine they push works better for all our sake's. :-[

flu vaccines are a bit more sophisticated than that...
[/quote]
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on July 16, 2020, 10:45:14 PM
I thought that was the strategy behind developing an mRNA vaccine instead of a traditional vaccine.  Really nothing to worry about, if we cut testing by 75%, remove the data from the CDC, and follow that with a proper dosing regimen of hydroxyclorquine, the problem will go away like it never existed. 

I know, I know, it’s that subtle touch of cynicism that gets me into trouble every time.

Stop being cynical and endorse grocery products.

 :lol:

Also  :lol:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on July 17, 2020, 10:03:29 AM
English Pub Installs an Electric Fence to Maintain Social Distancing (https://vinepair.com/booze-news/pub-electric-fence-social-distancing/?utm_source=The+Drop+by+VinePair&utm_campaign=ef968563b9-JULY_15_2020&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_b653fb8c99-ef968563b9-44682081&mc_cid=ef968563b9&mc_eid=3d567cc77f)

Quote
Johnny McFadden, landlord of The Star Inn in Cornwall, England, installed an electric fence in his pub to maintain a safe distance between pub goers and his staff. McFadden devised the solution after previous efforts to stop crowding around the bar using floor tape proved unsuccessful, he told Cornwall Live.

Though the newly installed fence is fully wired and operable, McFadden says he doesn’t usually turn it on. When asked if people are still deterred after enjoying a few drinks, he answered, “You’d be surprised. People keep well away from it. It’s the fear factor.”

Some have voiced concerns about the potential liability of an electric fence in a pub, including McFadden’s insurance broker. But McFadden has been undeterred by that concern, explaining: “We’re in a rural community, everybody knows what an electric fence is.”

While this measure might have a — literally — shocking effect on customers, the electric fence seems to be doing to trick. It “keeps the sheep away; it keeps the people away,” McFadden says, and it has allowed him to keep his pub open, with social distancing maintained.

Meanwhile, back in the USA...

Quote

Task force report says 18 states in coronavirus 'red zone' should roll back reopening (https://apple.news/ADeR2N2OuQSeaDiSayRcR3w)  An unpublished document prepared for the White House coronavirus task force and obtained by the Center for Public Integrity, a nonprofit newsroom, recommends that 18 states in the coronavirus "red zone" for cases should roll back reopening measures amid surging cases. 
The report goes on to reject the idea of installing electric fences in bars.  Apparently, many of those Americans who don't understand how communicable diseases are spread also don't understand how electricity works.




Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: mr.awesome on July 17, 2020, 11:11:05 AM
the idiots here would make a game out of it to see who could hold on to the hot wire the longest.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: bedlamite on July 17, 2020, 12:00:58 PM
https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/fox-35-investigates-questions-raised-after-fatal-motorcycle-crash-listed-as-covid-19-death (https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/fox-35-investigates-questions-raised-after-fatal-motorcycle-crash-listed-as-covid-19-death)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on July 17, 2020, 01:51:04 PM
https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/fox-35-investigates-questions-raised-after-fatal-motorcycle-crash-listed-as-covid-19-death (https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/fox-35-investigates-questions-raised-after-fatal-motorcycle-crash-listed-as-covid-19-death)

You could die from an S&M session taken too far and some people will attribute it to COVID-19.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: mr.awesome on July 17, 2020, 02:59:37 PM

You could die from an S&M session taken too far and some people will attribute it to COVID-19.

That would be my luck. Dying while having the time of my life and they list it as Covid. :naughty:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Baxter on July 17, 2020, 04:17:18 PM
https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/fox-35-investigates-questions-raised-after-fatal-motorcycle-crash-listed-as-covid-19-death (https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/fox-35-investigates-questions-raised-after-fatal-motorcycle-crash-listed-as-covid-19-death)

This happens far too often in traffic stats.  One of my main issues is the stats on speeding and crashes.  They count speeding as causing or contributing to a crash even when common sense says it wasn't, such as when the speeding was slightly over the limit by 5 or so mph.  Then they use the nonsensical stats to justify lowering the speed limits or raising ticket prices.

But I'm not surprised this is from Florida.  Many years ago their public health sector was pulling the panic alarm because motorcycle crashes had increased by a significant percentage over the course of 10 or 20 years.  Draconian bills were introduced to the state legislature.  But fortunately there was a professional statistician who rode, and the error was caught.  The public health folks had looked at crash numbers only and didn't account for the increase in motorcycle riders during the same time period.  It turned out that there had been a significant rise in motorcycle riders such that when the stats were looked at in terms of crashes per licensed rider, the state was actually getting safer. The bills were withdrawn or defeated.

I used to work with state level public health administrators, and would push them to be certain that their statistics were painting an accurate picture. If I got some guff back, I pointed out this Florida disaster.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on July 18, 2020, 02:13:06 AM
King's College, London has identified 6 strains of covid.

a round up of progress and findings by Reuters: https://graphics.reuters.com/HEALTH-CORONAVIRUS/yxmvjqywprz/index.html
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on July 18, 2020, 03:00:35 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-53389977 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-53389977)

"just a normal electric fence that you would find in a field".....Asked if it was switched on, Mr McFadden said: "Come and find out - there is a fear factor and it works."
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: bedlamite on July 18, 2020, 04:50:04 AM
https://news.ki.se/immunity-to-covid-19-is-probably-higher-than-tests-have-shown
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on July 18, 2020, 11:54:29 AM
If this is true, would that mean any second wave response in previously hard-hit areas will be significantly muted?  Good news if so for Florida, AZ, NYC, London, etc.

https://news.ki.se/immunity-to-covid-19-is-probably-higher-than-tests-have-shown (https://news.ki.se/immunity-to-covid-19-is-probably-higher-than-tests-have-shown)
Quote
“Our results indicate that public immunity to COVID-19 is probably significantly higher than antibody tests have suggested,” says Professor Hans-Gustaf Ljunggren at the Center for Infectious Medicine, Karolinska Institutet, and co-senior author.




https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-53389977 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-53389977)

"just a normal electric fence that you would find in a field".....Asked if it was switched on, Mr McFadden said: "Come and find out - there is a fear factor and it works."

the idiots here would make a game out of it to see who could hold on to the hot wire the longest.  :facepalm:

And more fun than mechanical bull riding for sure.  Yeehaw

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on July 29, 2020, 09:57:14 PM
...the rate of new cases has started to decrease.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Eh2zed on August 04, 2020, 07:04:18 PM
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5673729 (https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5673729)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Black Hills on August 05, 2020, 08:56:22 AM
meanwhile in SD, the sturgis rally has begun. It will be interesting to see how this turns out.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on August 05, 2020, 09:08:54 AM
Since Chornbe isn't here to do it, I will:


 :facepalm:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Black Hills on August 05, 2020, 09:29:08 AM
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: jadziadax8 on August 05, 2020, 09:41:35 AM
Freedumb!
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Eh2zed on August 06, 2020, 07:36:36 AM
FYI here’s how Canadian provinces are doing compared to US states:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/covid-19-in-the-u-s-how-do-canada-s-provinces-rank-against-american-states-1.5051033 (https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/covid-19-in-the-u-s-how-do-canada-s-provinces-rank-against-american-states-1.5051033)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on August 06, 2020, 08:44:44 AM
So maybe cold weather kills the virus...

...because suggesting that Canada’s relatively low rates are due to having a well-informed electorate led by semi-intelligent politicians with a modicum of personal integrity (I’ll give the Politicos that much credit) is really going to PO a large number of your southern neighbors. 

How about we agree on a statistic that I just made up that the US does tremendously many more times as much testing as Canada to explain these numbers. 



I’m already in the doghouse at home for considering an out-of-state motorcycle ride in October, so you guys booting me to the cellar might actually work in my favor.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: R Doug on August 06, 2020, 08:48:34 AM
Freedumb!


+1

:lol:

Being a libertarian, I am all about one's freedom.  You want to attend Sturgis during this time, go for it.  You want to skydive w/o a parachute, go for it. 


...the rate of new cases has started to decrease.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login




There's something about this chart that's a bit deceiving in comparing the US to the world (or, a hand full of countries representing the world).  While I don't doubt the chart's data, the US is not THAT bad compared to those countries. 

*  The combined population of the countries mentioned is 457 Million vs. 328 Million in the US.  However...

*  The total cases to date from those countries is 19.5 Million vs. 4.8 Million in the US.  And...

*  The total number of deaths in those countries YTD is 770K vs 159K in the US.


Comparably, the US is doing better off that the other countries mentioned here combined.  Are there individual countries in that group crushing the US, hell yes.  Are there those doing worse, hell yes.
 
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Eh2zed on August 06, 2020, 09:06:13 AM
Europe has 51 countries with a population of about 740 million.
The USA is about 330 million.
European deaths about 200,000
US deaths about 160,000.
If you use the European ratio then there’s about 65,000 too many deaths in the USA. Why? I’m not sure but I’m getting it’s the masks. I still have no clue about the Germany/France difference either. 30,000 dead French. Less than 10,000 Germans. Germany even has 20,000 more cases than France. So ?????
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: radon222 on August 06, 2020, 09:18:51 AM
Virginia is now the first state to implement a contact tracing mobil app.

https://richmond.com/news/virginia/watch-now-add-your-phone-to-the-covid-fight-virginia-rolls-out-new-app-to/article_abe4a02f-f52e-5f77-8ed1-8dfdce1f30d7.html
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: R Doug on August 06, 2020, 09:21:04 AM
I'm not an apologist for the US.  But, it appears to be getting slammed a bit in this thread. 


Europe has 51 countries with a population of about 740 million.
The USA is about 330 million.
European deaths about 200,000  706,000
US deaths about 160,000.
If you use the European ratio then there’s about 65,000 too many deaths in the USA. Why? I’m not sure but I’m getting it’s the masks. I still have no clue about the Germany/France difference either. 30,000 dead French. Less than 10,000 Germans. Germany even has 20,000 more cases than France. So ?????


FTFY

USA Population 330 million.  Agreed
European Population 740 million.  Agreed

USA COVID Cases To Date 4.8 million
European COVID Cases To Date 18.8 million 
The number of cases per million in the US is 1.7X better than Europe

USA COVID Deaths To Date 159K 
European COVID Deaths To Date  706K   
The number of deaths per million in the US is 2X better than Europe

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Black Hills on August 06, 2020, 09:27:23 AM
it's an odd case for sure. seems political affiliation is the determining factor in how one feels the pandemic is affecting the US.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: R Doug on August 06, 2020, 09:28:29 AM
And, FWIW, while I believe in the freedom of individuals, my choice is mask all the time, avoid large gatherings (including neighborhood dinners we've been invited to), and give  :facepalm: every time I see those around me going to vacation and eating dinner in crowded places, those attending my church, and those who constantly run out to go shopping in this environment.  Their choice.  But, the US does appears to be doing better than Europe as a whole and I'm sick of the, "you all are a bunch of backward hicks." 


Now, truth be told, why am I avoiding getting the virus? Well, I have one major and one minor reason. The major is my 80 year old mother in law lives with us and we take care of her.  We can't afford to get it and pass it on to her.  Second, I do have a friend my age that is still recovering since March from COVID and appears to have permanent lung damage.  While that may be an outlier, it's not fun to watch.

Statistically, I'm nearly 50.  My likelihood of having any complications with this virus is nearly equal to that of the bad flu.  And, once you start looking at those younger, the odds of complications is LESS than that of the flu.

People should be educate themselves and make wise decisions.  If I'm a baby boomer and still want to attend Sturgis this year, that's not an informed / educated decision.  YMMV
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Black Hills on August 06, 2020, 09:37:37 AM
I'm doing the same as Doug. I have gone out to my local bar, handful of people, but other than that avoiding other people for the most part. My wife is an ICU nurse and just got her first COVID patient last week, I probably have a greater risk of getting it from her than anywhere else.

She did have an interesting take on the hydroxychloroquine debate. her opinion* is that while the CDC is correct that it does nothing against the virus it does treat the symptoms (inflammation in the lungs), so basically it won;t keep you from getting the virus but it very well may save your life if you are one of the rare cases that end up in ICU. A few other COPD drugs work this way as well. misinformation (social media) due to politics seems to be the biggest problem we have.

p.s. I will be avoiding all public contact during the rally.  ;)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on August 06, 2020, 10:08:08 AM
Virginia is now the first state to implement a contact tracing mobil app.

https://richmond.com/news/virginia/watch-now-add-your-phone-to-the-covid-fight-virginia-rolls-out-new-app-to/article_abe4a02f-f52e-5f77-8ed1-8dfdce1f30d7.html

My employer (state agency) just sent an e-mail on that.  I will not participate.  Since they don't own my phone, they can't force me to install it.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on August 06, 2020, 10:27:26 AM
Freedumb!
+1

:lol:



...the rate of new cases has started to decrease.


There's something about this chart that's a bit deceiving in comparing the US to the world (or, a hand full of countries representing the world).  While I don't doubt the chart's data, the US is not THAT bad compared to those countries. 



I'm with you on that; there is no single chart that provides a fair comparison because everyone is reporting numbers differently.  In one graph, number of deaths per infections, points in a different direction than number of infections per 100k tested.  (Insert quote attributed to Mark Twain here.)  Compare NY to CA, or CT to FL, or NH to AZ.  Do you see any trends?

To my way of thinking, the US should be the stand-out example of the best way to do it; not a patchwork quilt of hit-or-miss approaches.

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Eh2zed on August 06, 2020, 11:23:36 AM
I'm not an apologist for the US.  But, it appears to be getting slammed a bit in this thread. 


Europe has 51 countries with a population of about 740 million.
The USA is about 330 million.
European deaths about 200,000  706,000
US deaths about 160,000.
If you use the European ratio then there’s about 65,000 too many deaths in the USA. Why? I’m not sure but I’m getting it’s the masks. I still have no clue about the Germany/France difference either. 30,000 dead French. Less than 10,000 Germans. Germany even has 20,000 more cases than France. So ?????


FTFY

USA Population 330 million.  Agreed
European Population 740 million.  Agreed

USA COVID Cases To Date 4.8 million
European COVID Cases To Date 18.8 million 
The number of cases per million in the US is 1.7X better than Europe

USA COVID Deaths To Date 159K 
European COVID Deaths To Date  706K   
The number of deaths per million in the US is 2X better than Europe

Uh no. European deaths just over 202k.
706 is total worldwide deaths
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: R Doug on August 06, 2020, 11:25:06 AM


To my way of thinking, the US should be the stand-out example of the best way to do it; not a patchwork quilt of hit-or-miss approaches.

i'm more along the lines that each state should be able to set it own course and direction (similar to any other national disaster handling like hurricanes, floods, etc..). They should know best what's right for their people but have data and assistance from the Fed, as needed.  But, now the Trump Administration is having all data go to some independent company for compilation and leaving the states in the dark.  For a guy who also says he believes in the rights of states, he's not showing it by this action.  (sorry to get a bit political here).


 :facepalm: :facepalm:


https://khn.org/news/trump-administrations-sudden-shift-on-covid-data-leaves-states-in-the-lurch/ (https://khn.org/news/trump-administrations-sudden-shift-on-covid-data-leaves-states-in-the-lurch/)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: R Doug on August 06, 2020, 11:27:23 AM

Uh no. European deaths just over 202k.
706 is total worldwide deaths


 :smiley_thumb:

Yep, you're right.  Thanks for the follow up.  I just revisited the site I googled for "European COVID stats" and it did report the deaths as global, not just for Europe.   :redface:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Mrs. DantesDame on August 06, 2020, 11:47:22 AM
There is a slight spike in some European countries but the governments are reacting quickly.
Switzerland reported 131 new cases the other day, but overall I think that the rates per capita are pretty low here.

Here (https://www.corona-data.ch/) is a pretty good website for Swiss stuff, for those who care
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: jadziadax8 on August 06, 2020, 01:05:37 PM
Are you disappointed too?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: viffergyrl on August 06, 2020, 01:09:05 PM
Are you disappointed too?

2020 isn't over yet.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: jimmy on August 06, 2020, 02:12:30 PM
  :redface:

We all make mistakes!  :thumbsup:

















ya backwards hick!     :bigsmile:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on August 06, 2020, 03:03:19 PM
Are you disappointed too?

2020 isn't over yet.

wait til 2021
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: coho on August 06, 2020, 03:35:03 PM
Are you disappointed too?

2020 isn't over yet.

wait til 2021

I hope 2020 is over by then.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on August 06, 2020, 03:53:26 PM
Are you disappointed too?

2020 isn't over yet.

wait til 2021

I hope 2020 is over by then.

I think it'll run side by side
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on August 07, 2020, 03:48:19 AM
not even 2021 yet: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/china-bubonic-plague-death-village-a4518936.html (https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/china-bubonic-plague-death-village-a4518936.html)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Vulcanbill on August 07, 2020, 07:39:07 AM
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on August 08, 2020, 02:56:23 PM
no, I didn't get all the references eitherer.; but this covers both the Brexit thread and this one. Could be the Tory rapist as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWdmkGw9qng&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3ov5N2bJWZF2grkKDtu9Z9SDxUPcaQRcNvBDk0wB9ZJX_4gwHHdW-ep4Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWdmkGw9qng&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3ov5N2bJWZF2grkKDtu9Z9SDxUPcaQRcNvBDk0wB9ZJX_4gwHHdW-ep4Q)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: biking sailor on August 08, 2020, 04:30:50 PM
How old and how healthy are a couple big factors. Why California has done better than New York. Southern state beware.

Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on August 13, 2020, 01:26:40 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/new-mexico-man-in-his-20s-dies-of-the-plague-officials-confirm/ar-BB17SIGP?ocid=spartanntp (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/new-mexico-man-in-his-20s-dies-of-the-plague-officials-confirm/ar-BB17SIGP?ocid=spartanntp)

We are definitely living in a Leonard Cohen song, now.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on August 13, 2020, 08:35:43 AM
Not to worry; there's just one case...
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Eh2zed on August 14, 2020, 12:09:04 PM
I never would have thought that a global pandemic that’s killed 3/4 of a million people so far would be the 2nd greatest threat to civilization.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Flyer on August 14, 2020, 02:26:13 PM
I never would have thought that a global pandemic that’s killed 3/4 of a million people so far would be the 2nd greatest threat to civilization.
The first is Twitter?
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: TwistedT on August 14, 2020, 04:16:57 PM
I never would have thought that a global pandemic that’s killed 3/4 of a million people so far would be the 2nd greatest threat to civilization.
The first is Twitter?

Twitter's in a back and forth battle for the lead with facebook.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: biking sailor on August 15, 2020, 08:51:32 AM
Reading the article posted above, can someone explain to me what this means?

"The World Health Organization (WHO) estimates that there are between 1,000 and 2,000 cases of plague globally each year.

Between 30 and 100 percent of those cases prove fatal, according to the WHO. "

It's the second sentence that isn't exactly clear. Seem an awfully wide spread.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on August 15, 2020, 11:57:24 AM
Reading the article posted above, can someone explain to me what this means?

"The World Health Organization (WHO) estimates that there are between 1,000 and 2,000 cases of plague globally each year.

Between 30 and 100 percent of those cases prove fatal, according to the WHO. "

It's the second sentence that isn't exactly clear. Seem an awfully wide spread.

I can't fully explain the statistical model they used because I am not interested in reading the article and it's quite possible the author either didn't include sufficient detail or misrepresented certain data because they didn't understand what they were saying.  Happens all the time. 

[Revised for clarity] There is an estimated range of 1000 to 2000 cases per year.  I would assume there is a difference between the estimated range and the actual number number of cases per year.  (In other words, the actual number of cases in any given year could be lower than 1000 or higher than 2000).  There is also an estimated percentage of fatal cases each year. So the average number of fatalities is dependent on 2 estimates.  Regardless of the number of actual cases, the number of fatalities each year is estimated to be as low as (30%x1000=) 300 or as high as (100%x2000=) 2000. 

At least that is how I interpret it.  Anyone else? 
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Eh2zed on August 15, 2020, 01:45:22 PM
I’m trying to imagine how the WHO figures out the cause of death for some poor sap in the middle of a country that has basic medical care that consists of someone with a bandaid and an alcohol swab. It’s sad but a fact that they are stuck with estimating.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Eh2zed on August 15, 2020, 01:47:46 PM
I’m thinking that the statistics on Belgium which is a modern country are a prime example of how statistics can be very confusing.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Flyer on August 15, 2020, 04:26:21 PM
I’m thinking that the statistics on Belgium which is a modern country are a prime example of how statistics can be very confusing.
If you add up all the numbers, I’m the progeny of Tutankhamun.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on August 15, 2020, 06:00:48 PM
I’m thinking that the statistics on Belgium which is a modern country are a prime example of how statistics can be very confusing.

Yeah, statistics can be difficult to understand.  That’s why some people rely on gut instinct instead of making data-based decisions. “Listen to your gut, no matter how good something sounds on paper.”

On the other hand, if you had insufficient resources to test all scenarios, like WHO does in assessing worldwide disease or like the USA did when assigning air patrols sectors before the battle of Midway, it would be very helpful to make use of statistics (and some game theory math) to evaluate which strategy to pursue.  I understand the data analysis for Midway also represents the first use of computer data analysis in a military situation, but that is based on something I read years ago, and many accounts chalk it up to shear dumb luck.  I know which version of the story I prefer. 

Just like motorcycle riding (push left to go right), data based decisions often involve confusing directives, because they are counterintuitive.  “Guys like us, we’re not brainiacs on the nerd patrol.”


Then I look at stuff I wrote like this and realize I have been cooped up inside way too long.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Eh2zed on August 15, 2020, 06:56:13 PM
Statistics are just an excuse for the existence of baseball.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on August 15, 2020, 07:37:57 PM
So true. 
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: PatM on August 15, 2020, 09:22:18 PM
My understanding of how they figure how many died due to Covid is they compare how many deaths at this time in 2020 vs how many deaths on average at the same time for the previous years. It's probably the best guestimate you can get.  :shrug:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on August 16, 2020, 04:08:24 AM
My understanding of how they figure how many died due to Covid is they compare how many deaths at this time in 2020 vs how many deaths on average at the same time for the previous years. It's probably the best guestimate you can get.  :shrug:

seems to be the best method. not quick, as it takes a few weeks to gather the data.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on August 16, 2020, 08:44:35 AM
Check out today’s Dilbert Comic.

Humans Making Decisions (https://dilbert.com/strip/2020-08-16)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: biking sailor on August 16, 2020, 09:36:50 AM
My understanding of how they figure how many died due to Covid is they compare how many deaths at this time in 2020 vs how many deaths on average at the same time for the previous years. It's probably the best guestimate you can get.  :shrug:

I've heard a few guys, that are purported to be smart, say we won't really know the true virus impact until life expectancy numbers are calculated. Think of all the non-medical things that have been affected, from auto crashes to suicides to food production to economic impact...

Complicated situation.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: OHScot on August 16, 2020, 12:16:57 PM
Lies, damn lies and statistics.


They are incentivizing the numbers and skewing the outcome, any off the record nurse or doctor will confirm.  Not that it is not a problem and real.

 
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on August 16, 2020, 03:26:21 PM
Lies, damn lies and statistics.


They are incentivizing the numbers and skewing the outcome, any off the record nurse or doctor will confirm.  Not that it is not a problem and real.

 

They may be the case in the US but nearly everywhere else is under reporting, partly because of lack of testing, partly because no government wants high figures.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on August 16, 2020, 04:24:32 PM
Lies, damn lies and statistics.


They are incentivizing the numbers and skewing the outcome, any off the record nurse or doctor will confirm.  Not that it is not a problem and real.

 

Our friends sent me an email warning me not to believe the statistics that are being reported because the numbers are being inflated to make people think the situation is worse than it really is.  They went on to say (later in the same email) that they have temporarily left their home in Florida (along with anyone else who has any sense, in their words) for a place they have in the Blue Ridge Mts because too many people are getting sick.

I don't know who to believe.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Baxter on August 16, 2020, 05:04:41 PM
Lies, damn lies and statistics.


They are incentivizing the numbers and skewing the outcome, any off the record nurse or doctor will confirm.  Not that it is not a problem and real.

 

Our friends sent me an email warning me not to believe the statistics that are being reported because the numbers are being inflated to make people think the situation is worse than it really is.  They went on to say (later in the same email) that they have temporarily left their home in Florida (along with anyone else who has any sense, in their words) for a place they have in the Blue Ridge Mts because too many people are getting sick.

I don't know who to believe.

 :lol:
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Eh2zed on August 17, 2020, 05:56:04 PM

[/quote]

 :lol:
[/quote]

😂😂😂

It’s hard to hide the bodies....
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: radon222 on August 19, 2020, 02:50:31 PM
The "Corona Song" = John Valby*

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=V7JZgJbwZ14&list=RDAMVMV7JZgJbwZ14




*believe it or not, its actually SFW
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Eh2zed on August 24, 2020, 07:47:17 PM
Some 33 year old guy in Hong Kong recovered from Covid19.
142 days later he got it again.
Crap.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: miles on August 24, 2020, 10:13:43 PM
Crossposted:  https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2020/08/24/almost-50-north-texans-drank-bleach-this-month-poison-center-warns-stop-it-wont-cure-covid/ (https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2020/08/24/almost-50-north-texans-drank-bleach-this-month-poison-center-warns-stop-it-wont-cure-covid/)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: zer0netgain on August 25, 2020, 03:43:24 AM
Some 33 year old guy in Hong Kong recovered from Covid19.
142 days later he got it again.
Crap.

Immunity doesn’t last.
The virus has mutated into multiple strains...he might have contracted a different strain.
Getting over it doesn’t mean it isn’t hiding in your system...like chicken pox.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on August 25, 2020, 05:20:57 AM
let's hope it mutates into something less virulent.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Skee on August 29, 2020, 12:33:43 PM
FDA gives go-ahead to fast $5 coronavirus test that doesn't require lab equipment (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/26/fda-green-lights-fast-coronavirus-test-402873)

"The US FDA has authorized emergency use of a coronavirus test that costs $5 and can produce results in 15 minutes without the use of any lab equipment. "

"Test-maker Abbott says it could soon manufacture 50 million of the rapid antigen tests per month, which could ease the country's testing bottleneck by greatly increasing overall capacity and the speed at which results arrive."

"Abbott's test is designed for use within seven days of the onset of symptoms. It gives results on a card reminiscent of the stick used in many over-the-counter pregnancy tests. If one line appears on the card, the patient is negative for the coronavirus; two lines indicates a positive result."

"Data that Abbott submitted to the FDA show that the test accurately detects 97.1 percent of positive samples and 98.5 percent of negative samples."
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: squeezer on August 29, 2020, 07:05:32 PM
Poking around the research lit today. Demographic research shows the average life expectancy in the U.S. has already been reduced 0.4 years. They estimate the premature deaths in the U.S. have resulted in 1.5 million years of potential life lost. Preprint, still in peer review.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.06.20147009v1 (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.06.20147009v1)
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: bedlamite on August 30, 2020, 09:06:48 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwxdwxi_ayA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwxdwxi_ayA)

That should clear things up.
Title: Re: COVID-19 Video
Post by: Papa Lazarou on September 25, 2020, 02:20:26 AM
Christmas day. dad hands you a present. it certainly *feels* like AstraZeneca's ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine. heart pounding, you unwrap it. out falls the Moderna mRNA-1273 injection. the blood drains from your face. "just like you wanted!", says dad. you nod, fighting back the tears.

(shamelessly stolen from Alex Heaney)