Sport-Touring

The Lounge => Off Topic Discussion => Topic started by: Vulcanbill on December 13, 2013, 06:17:27 AM

Title: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Vulcanbill on December 13, 2013, 06:17:27 AM
I don't know why but I've always been opposed to the concept of the CVT.  I suppose because early generations of it were not well thought of by the automotive community and probably because much of said community is probably old school and not terribly amenable to changing something like the transmission which has been largely the same for many decades now.  We're trying to replace our extremely functional but not very economical Mazda 5 which we bought largely for the dogs.  We wanted something with better gas mileage given my new commute but we also wanted AWD or 4WD because of where we live and own property.  The 5 is useless up there. 

We did the research and found that there are very few vehicles where gas mileage and AWD come together without creating a tear in the space time continuum.  We narrowed the search down to the new Mazda CX5 and the new Subaru XV Crosstrek which is just an impreza w/ a lift kit.  :)  I read the stats and watched and read the reviews and totally expected the Mazda to just blow the Subi out of the water.  It costs more, has nicer stuff and is bigger.  So imagine my surprise when we drove them back to back and the Subaru was the clear winner by a significant margin.

Now comes the title of the thread...  Traditional tranny in the Mazda and CVT in the Subi.  I was expecting to hate the CVT but after driving it, I was blown away.  Now the car isn't fast or powerful and lags behind the Mazda by a fair margin in the numbers category but what it does with the availabe power is nothing short of impressive.  The power that it does make is...  eager power.  Like it wants to please you. 

Granted, the largest decision making factor for me is the sit.  If the car doesn't feel right and my elbows don't drop just so, I'm out.  That was the case w/ the Mazda.  It was nice but it wasn't nice for me.  I'm not a little dude and it was almost too wide.  Kim was just lost in the driver's seat with nothing to support her arms that she could even reach if she tried.  After driving the Subaru, the Mazda transmission left me feeling like it really wasn't interested in doing what I wanted it to do.  It shifted way too slow and too late.  In order to get the performance out of it that I would want, I'd have to flog it which would cost me any benefit in gas mileage that it might otherwise provide.  The power (ha) is there but if it requires me to have to try to make it do what I need while the Subi does a much better job and bringing it to me with even less power and better mileage then the higher hp numbers don't really matter.

The Subaru had a really nice sit to it.  Once the ergos were adjusted properly, it just felt better.  It drives quite well if a little agricultural feeling which is apparently a Subaru thing that I'm OK with. 

Short story long, we're going back tonight to get an appraisal on the 5 and see if they can get us the same payment.  It'll look a little something like this: 
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Cablebandit on December 13, 2013, 06:47:25 AM
I've heard the same thing about the tranny in the XV from just about everybody that has actually driven one.  I guess they are finally getting things figured out.

Now you can report to the 21+pages thread over on ADV about the Crosstrek.   :lol:
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: miles on December 13, 2013, 07:48:20 AM
It took me a while to get used to the CVT when we first bought our Altima. It sounds like a badly slipping clutch, but works flawlessly. Now when I drive a traditional automatic it feels odd.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Royal Tiger on December 13, 2013, 08:00:41 AM
We owned 7 Subaru's over the years and never had a single problem with any of them.  If you like it, go for it.  I've never been much of a Mazda person.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Vulcanbill on December 13, 2013, 08:08:45 AM
It took me a while to get used to the CVT when we first bought our Altima. It sounds like a badly slipping clutch, but works flawlessly. Now when I drive a traditional automatic it feels odd.

The difference in the transmissions between the 5 and the CX-5 are day and night.  The only thing that saves that 5 from complete and utter mediocrity is the transmission.  Swift shifts at appropriate times and it knows it's limitations and compensates for them.  zoom zoom indeed. 
The CX-5 might adapt to my driving if there is intelligence in there anywhere but I don't want to wait.  I can't believe it's the same company.  I can see me becoming a total CVT fanboy.  And now I'm seeing that we might well be able to test the AWD and crappy stock tires tonight / tomorrow.  :)
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Moto Morphin Power Ranger on December 13, 2013, 08:20:17 AM
I know the Sub Crosstrek is one of the few cars you can still get in a manual transmission. I don't know what your commute is like or if that's what you drive. I have not been in the XV but I am loving the look of it and what I am hearing from people. 
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: bomber on December 13, 2013, 09:42:41 AM
There's a CVT in sis-in-laws car . . . . . . . .3 years, no trouble at all . . . . . . she claims that she got used to the strangeness after the first couple of days . . .
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: chornbe on December 13, 2013, 09:52:04 AM
FWIW, we just had a Nissan Altima with their CVT for a week as a rental and I was really very impressed with the transmission. CVTs as a concept got a LOT of bad press early on, and I think some early examples were less than stellar, but it sure seems like at least part of the industry has it right.

Not quite the same, either, but the CVTs in my two burgmans were quite enjoyable.

$.02
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Mr. Whippy on December 13, 2013, 10:21:14 AM
FWIW, we just had a Nissan Altima with their CVT for a week as a rental and I was really very impressed with the transmission. CVTs as a concept got a LOT of bad press early on, and I think some early examples were less than stellar, but it sure seems like at least part of the industry has it right.

Not quite the same, either, but the CVTs in my two burgmans were quite enjoyable.

$.02

This (actually one of those Burgmans was the same Burgman!).

Maybe I'm an old fart, but I still prefer to drive a manual in most instances.  The only place where I prefer auto/CVT is commuting in extremely hilly areas, where there's a ton of stop and go.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: chornbe on December 13, 2013, 11:03:39 AM
FWIW, we just had a Nissan Altima with their CVT for a week as a rental and I was really very impressed with the transmission. CVTs as a concept got a LOT of bad press early on, and I think some early examples were less than stellar, but it sure seems like at least part of the industry has it right.

Not quite the same, either, but the CVTs in my two burgmans were quite enjoyable.

$.02

This (actually one of those Burgmans was the same Burgman!).

Maybe I'm an old fart, but I still prefer to drive a manual in most instances.  The only place where I prefer auto/CVT is commuting in extremely hilly areas, where there's a ton of stop and go.

Agreed. I have a really messed up left knee, so while Liz's Speed3 is perfectly acceptable for me to drive under normal conditions, even that light clutch gets to be a real problem in traffic. :(
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Veefer800canuck on December 13, 2013, 12:48:43 PM
I'll just leave this right here....

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Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Mr. Whippy on December 13, 2013, 12:52:34 PM
I'll just leave this right here....

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 :augie:
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Vulcanbill on December 13, 2013, 02:14:55 PM
I'll just leave this right here....

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and that little bit of fun will cost you about 3 or 4 mpg.  also, my commute is 84 miles of which 80 is interstate.  Not so much fun shifting ya see. 
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Veefer800canuck on December 13, 2013, 04:50:13 PM
Once you're on the Interstate, you probably don't need to shift at all, right? So that's only 4 miles of rowing the box.

And manuals are usually more fuel efficient than automatics, CVT's excluded.

Unless the new autoboxes have gotten better that is.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: PatM on December 13, 2013, 04:51:40 PM
Once you're on the Interstate, you probably don't need to shift at all, right? So that's only 4 miles of rowing the box.

And manuals are usually more fuel efficient than automatics, CVT's excluded.

Unless the new autoboxes have gotten better that is.
They have. At least in the tests. The electronics and more gears have a lot to do with it. The CVT is even better, accompanied with electronics as it can be used at the optimal ratio for engine speed.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Vulcanbill on December 14, 2013, 09:20:40 AM
So it turns out they don't want to discount cars anymore.  Seriously, MSRP and a 200 dollar trade allowance?  Their second and final offer was nearly 600 off the price of the car and a little more money for the trade.  Wow.  What an amazing offer.  Buh bye.  They have 10 of those things sitting on the lot.

I guess I'm just old school when it comes to car buying too.  Dodge came off the price of my truck 8 grand before we started negotiating the trade. 

Guess I'm driving a Mazda 5 for a while. 
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Cablebandit on December 14, 2013, 12:32:51 PM
I guess that's the difference between a Dodge truck that nobody wants and is overpriced and a Subaru that they will sell everyone they can make.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Royal Tiger on December 14, 2013, 02:25:46 PM
I guess that's the difference between a Dodge truck that nobody wants and is overpriced and a Subaru that they will sell everyone they can make.

Exactly.  Subaru was running out of stock.  Especially the Forester.  Dodge makes so many Rams they sit for months.  I understand there needs to be overhead on cars.  They are in business to make money.  But if you can afford $8k off the sticker, then it's overpriced.  The flip side is why does everyone think dealers should lose money to make you happy?  The price should be the price.  Makes life easier for everyone.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: PatM on December 14, 2013, 03:04:49 PM
Dealers don't make much off new cars, these days.
When and if you get 8K off, the manufacturer has subsidized that reduction.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Skee on December 14, 2013, 03:34:42 PM
Don't feel bad for dealers.  They can't be loosing money on trades and build those nice new showrooms.

I'm not sure if Japanese brands are worth the premium.  They were 30 years ago.  Our last Ford ran every bit as good as our Honda and was a lot less expensive to maintain & fix.

I hate haggling for a deal.  I'd be happy to pay a set price, but that approach didn't work for Saturn.  I usually write a number on a piece of paper and ask the dealer for their best price.  If they come back above it, we leave.  If they come in below it, we buy on the spot.  Got all kinds of funny stories about what happens when you walk out the door. 
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Vulcanbill on December 14, 2013, 05:04:16 PM
Yeah, I don't have much guilt about taking down the dealership because I wanted a better deal.  If you'd like to just pay whatever asking price is for stuff, well you go right ahead.  I'm sure they love your business.  Me?  They're going to work for my money.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Mr. Whippy on December 14, 2013, 05:19:55 PM
For me, when I'm shopping for a new car, I do it all online. I let each dealer know that I'm shopping around online.  I tell them I won't dicker over a few hundred dollars so the first to get low enough that other deals  are nearly the same, gets the business.

When we bought a VW Tiguan last year, we paid about 6K under MSRP.  (38K list price)
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Royal Tiger on December 14, 2013, 05:31:57 PM
Yeah, I don't have much guilt about taking down the dealership because I wanted a better deal.  If you'd like to just pay whatever asking price is for stuff, well you go right ahead.  I'm sure they love your business.  Me?  They're going to work for my money.

That wasn't the point at all.

If a new Subaru has a MSRP of $25K, it should be $25K.  All the factory kick backs, incentives, the ridiculous "$8k over Kelly Blue book for you trade" radio ads, and overvalued trade ins are what turns people off to the whole business.  The price of the car should be a number that covers what the dealer has in the car and a small margin.  That's it.  No one buys clothes and tells the salesgirl, take $10 off, it makes my butt look fat.  Of course dealers then shouldn't throw a $3-5k "desirable model" surcharge on it either.  No one is saying you shouldn't try and get the best deal.  The point is the games they play.  If you were selling your bike, would you go $1k under what you were asking if the guy walked away?  Hell no.  So why the nonsense at a dealership?
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Cablebandit on December 15, 2013, 09:11:42 AM
That's why I also do deals online.  Geez these days with the internet and 10 minutes you can figure out what a good deal is.

Email the fleet sales manager of how ever many dealerships you choose to and say here's the deal take it or leave it.  The whole "in-store" time for paperwork should be 10 minutes at best.






Oh, and my last truck was probably 60% off sticker because I let some other shil pay the depreciation for 2 years before swooping in and snatching it up.  The XV is a new model so you'd have to wait to do that but it would be the best deal.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Royal Tiger on December 15, 2013, 09:17:56 AM
Oh, and my last truck was probably 60% off sticker because I let some other shil pay the depreciation for 2 years before swooping in and snatching it up.  The XV is a new model so you'd have to wait to do that but it would be the best deal.

I have been mulling that over recently.  I've never had a new car or bike.  The soon to be ex got back to back new Foresters.  Felicia said I can get a new truck OR a new bike once the divorce is all finalized.  I have been leaning towards a new Tundra or Sierra, but they are both over $40k.  Buying a 2 or 3 year old one would cut hat down substantially, but it defeats the purpose of owning a new truck.  I might just hold onto my Tundra.  133k is nothing for one of these and I just put over $2k into it over the last few months.  Mostly wear items.  If I keep the Tundra I get a new KTM 500EXC instead!  :D
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Cablebandit on December 15, 2013, 09:19:51 AM
I'd get the bike.  My Tundra isn't going anywhere anytime soon.  It's 12 years old but looks mint.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Royal Tiger on December 15, 2013, 09:23:08 AM
I'd get the bike.  My Tundra isn't going anywhere anytime soon.  It's 12 years old but looks mint.

Mine is a 2003.  I love it.  The itch for new was getting strong, but I'd enjoy the bike more.  Now I have to sell the G650X.  I'm going to miss that the most of any former bike, except the RSV-R.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: 2RR2NV on December 15, 2013, 12:40:12 PM
I just let USAA buying service get us the numbers on vehicles and then go from there. They usually beat the prices listed at dealerships in the area. so all i do is print it off (as a record), get a call from whatever dealer wants to do the deal, show up, and sign paperwork (if they honor the deal). if the dealer tries shady shit, i walk. had to do that to one in MO. he had the car, but then tried to add a bunch of stuff to the price. The price recorded was an agreed upon price, not change or add whatever ya want to it. you lose for being an ass. got a call from another dealer who offered me the deal and then threw in some extra goodies. HELLO, ya got my business.  ;D
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Royal Tiger on December 15, 2013, 12:50:47 PM
I just let USAA buying service get us the numbers on vehicles and then go from there. They usually beat the prices listed at dealerships in the area. so all i do is print it off (as a record), get a call from whatever dealer wants to do the deal, show up, and sign paperwork (if they honor the deal). if the dealer tries shady shit, i walk. had to do that to one in MO. he had the car, but then tried to add a bunch of stuff to the price. The price recorded was an agreed upon price, not change or add whatever ya want to it. you lose for being an ass. got a call from another dealer who offered me the deal and then threw in some extra goodies. HELLO, ya got my business.  ;D

And I'm OK with that.  The "honor system" if you want to use that term, goes both ways.  I WILL not deal with a shady dealer.  I have had some bad experiences with some. 
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: chornbe on December 16, 2013, 09:41:29 AM
It only takes a 5 minute conversation with someone you know who's in the business to realize that - while I agree that MSRP should just mean 'the price', regardless - dealers consider it a failure if you walk in, buy at any price without their upselling you on SOMETHING... ANYTHING... Also, the back-end incentives and cost/fee waivers, and a bunch of other things means there's a LOT of room for them to haggle, even on something that seems well discounted. They don't need to make $5000 on one car sale; they make way more money on the back-end moving volume at any price than gouging on fewer cars.

It's a messed up business, and at this point, I don't think I'll ever buy a new car through any dealer ever again. I just can't honestly support such a whore's business full of so much trickery and dishonesty.

$.02
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Mr. Whippy on December 16, 2013, 10:50:43 AM
I believe in the 1990's the car industry experimented with honest pricing models.  They found the buyers, by and large preferred to do business in the standard haggling car dealership.  Weird, but I'm pretty sure that was the outcome. 

Let's face it, they just want to sell cars.  Whatever leads to sales is what they'll do.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Cablebandit on December 16, 2013, 10:52:12 AM
I doubt that they prefer haggling.  It's just they are so used to getting screwed that they think the price is obviously too high.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: chornbe on December 16, 2013, 12:30:12 PM
I recently decided that I couldn't handle not having a reliable car for the Winter. I called around and found a dealer known for working with crap credit, went and looked, and found some decent options. Had a sit-down with the sales manager and basically said "if you get me financed on this car to keep me at $300/month, whatever it takes, I'll take it today".

After 2 fucking hours of haggling, and agreeing to go up to $380/month, they came back with $458/month including a full warranty package and full scotch guard treatment with lifetime warranty.

I left.

I gave them carte blanch to bend me over fully without lube as long as they kept me to a price that I could (barely) afford if I basically stopped eating lunch. The car was $9000 on the used lot. By the time they were done it was a $15,000 sale.

Well, not to me it wasn't.  :thumbsdown:
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Mr. Whippy on December 16, 2013, 12:36:15 PM
I recently decided that I couldn't handle not having a reliable car for the Winter. I called around and found a dealer known for working with crap credit, went and looked, and found some decent options. Had a sit-down with the sales manager and basically said "if you get me financed on this car to keep me at $300/month, whatever it takes, I'll take it today".

After 2 fucking hours of haggling, and agreeing to go up to $380/month, they came back with $458/month including a full warranty package and full scotch guard treatment with lifetime warranty.

I left.

I gave them carte blanch to bend me over fully without lube as long as they kept me to a price that I could (barely) afford if I basically stopped eating lunch. The car was $9000 on the used lot. By the time they were done it was a $15,000 sale.

Well, not to me it wasn't.  :thumbsdown:

I found a similar attitude when looking for a new motorcycle.  Advertised for $9500.  After all the "add ons" (shipping set up, advertising etc) $11, 800.  Fuck that.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: chornbe on December 16, 2013, 12:39:45 PM
I recently decided that I couldn't handle not having a reliable car for the Winter. I called around and found a dealer known for working with crap credit, went and looked, and found some decent options. Had a sit-down with the sales manager and basically said "if you get me financed on this car to keep me at $300/month, whatever it takes, I'll take it today".

After 2 fucking hours of haggling, and agreeing to go up to $380/month, they came back with $458/month including a full warranty package and full scotch guard treatment with lifetime warranty.

I left.

I gave them carte blanch to bend me over fully without lube as long as they kept me to a price that I could (barely) afford if I basically stopped eating lunch. The car was $9000 on the used lot. By the time they were done it was a $15,000 sale.

Well, not to me it wasn't.  :thumbsdown:

I found a similar attitude when looking for a new motorcycle.  Advertised for $9500.  After all the "add ons" (shipping set up, advertising etc) $11, 800.  Fuck that.

I'd expect that on a new car/bike. Destination/prep - asinine as they are - are almost always added on (I refuse to pay them, generally). But a 5 year old used car having almost $6000 of addons??? Hell no.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: giaka on December 16, 2013, 12:43:16 PM
My mother worked in the car sales industry (finance) for 30+ years. Her stories of what they did to people makes me want to punch babies.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Royal Tiger on December 16, 2013, 01:43:01 PM
Why do you think "car salesman" is the only career rated lower then "congressman" in honesty?

We dealt with a local Subaru dealer that was straight up and didn't play games.  We bought 5 cars from the same salesman that has been there 30+ years.  This place has a rabid loyal following.  In November the owner sold to a conglormate after owning it since the 1960's.  I am not holding my breathe it will stay the same.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: 2RR2NV on December 16, 2013, 02:07:43 PM
Why do you think "car salesman" is the only career rated lower then "congressman" in honesty?

We dealt with a local Subaru dealer that was straight up and didn't play games.  We bought 5 cars from the same salesman that has been there 30+ years.  This place has a rabid loyal following.  In November the owner sold to a conglormate after owning it since the 1960's.  I am not holding my breathe it will stay the same.

believe it or not, that's my Dodge salesman. haven't dealt with him for that long, but he's the best. he actually moved from the chrysler dealer to the dodge dealer cause he didn't like how things were being handled. 

i agree with the changeover... I wouldn't hold my breath either. GL.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Vulcanbill on December 19, 2013, 11:03:58 PM
Well, apparently some dealers do want to deal.  We did all the prelim work via email.  Got down there at 7:40 and they close at 8.  Tried to change the trade value they said they'd honor.  Tried to add the destination fee after the fact.  Tried to up the tax amount because our tags were changing and they missed it.  Tried to boot the interest rate up.  Blah blah blah.  Kudos for your effort I guess but you've been blocked. 

We just go in with the mentality that we don't need a car but we'd like one.  I said last minute changes to money make my spidey senses tingle like I'm trying to be taken advantage of.  These were all your mistakes.  Fix them and get to the pmt we agreed upon or we walk... at 10pm.  All three were way invested in this deal and were not about to throw it away over some money.  We, however, were totally prepared for that and they knew it. 

Win. 
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Royal Tiger on December 20, 2013, 05:18:22 AM
I'm glad it worked out for you.  Did you get the white?  I've never been a big fan of white cars.  The orange looks sweet and I've always been partial to blue.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Vulcanbill on December 20, 2013, 08:13:03 AM
I'm glad it worked out for you.  Did you get the white?  I've never been a big fan of white cars.  The orange looks sweet and I've always been partial to blue.

Yeah.  We got the white.  Subaru orange is a little muted in person.  The Mazda was white and the Ranger was white.  We have a thing for white cars.  They can be dirty for a really long time before they actually look dirty unless you make a clean spot.  The Ram is blue and I'm totally meh about it.  It's almost cool looking w/ the black accents including the wheels.  Almost.

It has a tow hitch.   ???
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Royal Tiger on December 20, 2013, 08:38:05 AM
My Tundra is dark grey.  It ALWAYS looks clean!!!!!
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Black Hills on December 20, 2013, 08:42:06 AM
My Tundra is dark grey.  It ALWAYS looks clean!!!!!


yep..
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 (http://s160.photobucket.com/user/blackhills_2007/media/8BE4493A-5DEF-4DDE-83F5-5A498C5324E9-1829-00000099F9D7DB6C_zps90eed54b.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: bomber on December 20, 2013, 09:19:53 AM
Heard a piece on the radio recently, claiming the the guys seeling NEW cars at the dealertship are often the newbies . . . dealership sometime sell at below list in order to qualify for monthly cash payments from the facotry (if X number of new cars are sold).

And that the real money was to be made selling used . . . . . .

Saturn had no haggle pricing for some of it's existance, but I think you guys are right -- most buyers are pretty convinced that the game is stacked against them, and don't like it.

Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Black Hills on December 20, 2013, 10:10:00 AM
Heard a piece on the radio recently, claiming the the guys seeling NEW cars at the dealertship are often the newbies . . . dealership sometime sell at below list in order to qualify for monthly cash payments from the facotry (if X number of new cars are sold).

And that the real money was to be made selling used . . . . . .

Saturn had no haggle pricing for some of it's existance, but I think you guys are right -- most buyers are pretty convinced that the game is stacked against them, and don't like it.

A car salesman friend of mine told me sales people make no money on new vehicles. he said it's $100/unit for him. the internet ruined new car sales, anyone can get pricing nationwide with a few clicks so the days of big commissions are gone. The used market is another story ;)
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Mr. Whippy on December 20, 2013, 10:13:55 AM
Heard a piece on the radio recently, claiming the the guys seeling NEW cars at the dealertship are often the newbies . . . dealership sometime sell at below list in order to qualify for monthly cash payments from the facotry (if X number of new cars are sold).

And that the real money was to be made selling used . . . . . .

Saturn had no haggle pricing for some of it's existance, but I think you guys are right -- most buyers are pretty convinced that the game is stacked against them, and don't like it.

A car salesman friend of mine told me sales people make no money on new vehicles. he said it's $100/unit for him. the internet ruined new car sales, anyone can get pricing nationwide with a few clicks so the days of big commissions are gone. The used market is another story ;)

Ding.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: 2RR2NV on December 24, 2013, 07:17:45 PM
I second that!  on both accounts....  grey trucks and ba-bye big commissions.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: 2RR2NV on December 24, 2013, 07:19:23 PM
My Tundra is dark grey.  It ALWAYS looks clean!!!!!


yep..
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 ([url]http://s160.photobucket.com/user/blackhills_2007/media/8BE4493A-5DEF-4DDE-83F5-5A498C5324E9-1829-00000099F9D7DB6C_zps90eed54b.jpg.html[/url])


NICE truck.  I'm a wee bit jealous. HAHAHAH get it?  wee bit jealous. Your truck is the set up i lust for.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Cablebandit on December 25, 2013, 09:07:30 AM


 I'm a wee bit jealous. HAHAHAH get it?  wee bit jealous.


 :headscratch:
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Black Hills on December 25, 2013, 11:50:32 AM


 I'm a wee bit jealous. HAHAHAH get it?  wee bit jealous.


 :headscratch:

I assume he is thinking its a v-strom in the back, actually it's a friends super Tennere that we managed to put a rock through the bottom end :)
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Cablebandit on December 25, 2013, 11:59:44 AM
That's what I figured...hence the head-scratch.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: 2RR2NV on December 25, 2013, 08:50:24 PM
yes. my bad. was trying to get my few minutes of surfing in before heading out and didn't take a REAL good look at the pic. still, very nice truck.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Vulcanbill on May 07, 2015, 06:27:24 AM
Thread revival:

The Subi has been a great car.  Recently had a noise in the left front end when accelerating at full lock.  Only ever presented in parking lots but I still wanted to have it checked out.  Both of us being off work for the move was the perfect opportunity. 

I took it in, described the problem and waited.  They called me and asked if I could replicate it for the tech.  Sure.  Here it is.  Oh.  They thought it was the axle so they ordered one and sent me on my way.  Few days later they call and we take the car in.  Kim took it in and I showed up later to pick her up.  By the time I got there, they'd already replaced the axle but that didn't fix the noise.  It's all under warranty so I don't care.  They gave us, ironically, a Mazda CX-5 as a loaner and we did the move with that instead.  I picked up the car the other day and they ended up replacing the transmission and both front axles.  The guy estimated that if this had been a paid service, it would have been about $8500 dollars.  zoinks.  He said it's a small problem but it's making itself known. 

While my mileage is definitely high for a one year old car, it's almost exclusively highway miles so I can't imagine what went wrong w/ axles or transmission.  Odd. 

However, the service experience at the Mazda / Subaru place in Winchester VA was exceptional.  Zero cost, great communication, loaner car w/out question from a place that I DIDN'T buy the car, and just generally friendly and efficient service.  Now, if history repeats itself, something will go wrong soon that I do have to pay for since I just got it out of the shop and I will again question all things service related.   :tinfoil:
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Bounce on May 07, 2015, 10:11:49 AM
What year/model?
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Vulcanbill on May 08, 2015, 05:47:30 AM
What year/model?

'14 Crosstrek. 
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Slartibartfast on May 08, 2015, 11:57:10 PM

What year/model?

'14 Crosstrek.

Have you driven that car on snow or ice covered roads?
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Vulcanbill on May 11, 2015, 06:13:33 AM

What year/model?

'14 Crosstrek.

Have you driven that car on snow or ice covered roads?

I took it out once to see how it would do.  I suppose it did fine but the electronics, even in their version of turned off, prevented any real driving.  Very annoying.  My commute is so long that if there's snow, I don't even bother.  But if you're asking for mechanical issues maybe related to snow or ice, no.  It's seen very little of either.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Slartibartfast on May 11, 2015, 10:08:38 AM


What year/model?

'14 Crosstrek.

Have you driven that car on snow or ice covered roads?

I took it out once to see how it would do.  I suppose it did fine but the electronics, even in their version of turned off, prevented any real driving.  Very annoying.  My commute is so long that if there's snow, I don't even bother.  But if you're asking for mechanical issues maybe related to snow or ice, no.  It's seen very little of either.

Lucky you. After a couple of Canuck winters with our '13 Crosstrek and some lengthy discussions with the dealer (as well as several sessions in the service bay) I will never own this model again. There's something very wrong with the car, and not just our car, the entire run, at least all the ones delivered to my area. The car is unstable in low traction conditions at anything above about 30 mph.

It took quite a lot of pissing and moaning to get the dealership to even consider listening to my complaints ("you need snow tires", you're just over correcting", etc) so I finally had enough and bullied the manager into coming for a drive with me on a snowy day (car equipped with Michelin X-Ice snow tires) and let him drive it himself. He was shocked. Then we went back and jumped into a brand new model. Same problem. Suddenly I was no longer an idiot. We hopped into another one and it was the same. All three cars feel like they're trying to swap ends in slippy stuff. If you lock the wheel against your knee the car will fishtail a bit down the road with absolutely no wheel input. The faster you go there pronounced the effect.

This is the only model to exhibit this behaviour (we have a Forester that is absolutely fantastic in snow and rock steady at any speed, even with all-season tires) and Subaru has yet to even acknowledge the problem but more and more owners are starting to complain.

We will be dealing the XV before next winter.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Vulcanbill on May 11, 2015, 10:44:49 AM


What year/model?

'14 Crosstrek.

Have you driven that car on snow or ice covered roads?

I took it out once to see how it would do.  I suppose it did fine but the electronics, even in their version of turned off, prevented any real driving.  Very annoying.  My commute is so long that if there's snow, I don't even bother.  But if you're asking for mechanical issues maybe related to snow or ice, no.  It's seen very little of either.

Lucky you. After a couple of Canuck winters with our '13 Crosstrek and some lengthy discussions with the dealer (as well as several sessions in the service bay) I will never own this model again. There's something very wrong with the car, and not just our car, the entire run, at least all the ones delivered to my area. The car is unstable in low traction conditions at anything above about 30 mph.

It took quite a lot of pissing and moaning to get the dealership to even consider listening to my complaints ("you need snow tires", you're just over correcting", etc) so I finally had enough and bullied the manager into coming for a drive with me on a snowy day (car equipped with Michelin X-Ice snow tires) and let him drive it himself. He was shocked. Then we went back and jumped into a brand new model. Same problem. Suddenly I was no longer an idiot. We hopped into another one and it was the same. All three cars feel like they're trying to swap ends in slippy stuff. If you lock the wheel against your knee the car will fishtail a bit down the road with absolutely no wheel input. The faster you go there pronounced the effect.

This is the only model to exhibit this behaviour (we have a Forester that is absolutely fantastic in snow and rock steady at any speed, even with all-season tires) and Subaru has yet to even acknowledge the problem but more and more owners are starting to complain.

We will be dealing the XV before next winter.

Huh....  I attributed it to the electronics just taking away control.  I haven't really pushed the car enough to find out who did or did not do what.  I assumed that all cars with intrusive stability control systems were like that.  And apparently, if you pull the fuse, you can't take the car out of gear w/out a screwdriver...  Whatever.  I have a truck.  I'll kill this car before I pay it off at the rate I'm going anyway.  :(
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Slartibartfast on May 11, 2015, 10:52:24 AM



What year/model?

'14 Crosstrek.

Have you driven that car on snow or ice covered roads?

I took it out once to see how it would do.  I suppose it did fine but the electronics, even in their version of turned off, prevented any real driving.  Very annoying.  My commute is so long that if there's snow, I don't even bother.  But if you're asking for mechanical issues maybe related to snow or ice, no.  It's seen very little of either.

Lucky you. After a couple of Canuck winters with our '13 Crosstrek and some lengthy discussions with the dealer (as well as several sessions in the service bay) I will never own this model again. There's something very wrong with the car, and not just our car, the entire run, at least all the ones delivered to my area. The car is unstable in low traction conditions at anything above about 30 mph.

It took quite a lot of pissing and moaning to get the dealership to even consider listening to my complaints ("you need snow tires", you're just over correcting", etc) so I finally had enough and bullied the manager into coming for a drive with me on a snowy day (car equipped with Michelin X-Ice snow tires) and let him drive it himself. He was shocked. Then we went back and jumped into a brand new model. Same problem. Suddenly I was no longer an idiot. We hopped into another one and it was the same. All three cars feel like they're trying to swap ends in slippy stuff. If you lock the wheel against your knee the car will fishtail a bit down the road with absolutely no wheel input. The faster you go there pronounced the effect.

This is the only model to exhibit this behaviour (we have a Forester that is absolutely fantastic in snow and rock steady at any speed, even with all-season tires) and Subaru has yet to even acknowledge the problem but more and more owners are starting to complain.

We will be dealing the XV before next winter.

Huh....  I attributed it to the electronics just taking away control.  I haven't really pushed the car enough to find out who did or did not do what.  I assumed that all cars with intrusive stability control systems were like that.  And apparently, if you pull the fuse, you can't take the car out of gear w/out a screwdriver...  Whatever.  I have a truck.  I'll kill this car before I pay it off at the rate I'm going anyway.  :(

I would have probably thought the same thing if I hadn't had the Forester to compare it with. Same systems, completely different behaviour. It is annoying not being able to power through a 4-wheel drift as the damned nanny-ware tries to straighten you out, but I don't believe that system has anything to do with the instability.
It's too bad, we really like the car otherwise, but it's just a hairball in the winter.
We've pounded a lot of miles into it as well... Maybe parking it on the railway track is the best solution. ;)
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Vulcanbill on May 11, 2015, 11:28:54 AM
apparently there are lot of folks who have installed a bypass switch that dumps the whole system for times when it's needed.  I might look into that.  I might be ok with it on the road and during regular driving but snow getting to the big roads or my freaking driveway, which is a small rally course, I'd like it turned off please.  maybe I can find someone to do that.  otherwise, the car is a bit of a hoot.  I just like the ~30mpg w/ AWD.  Not easy to come by.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Black Hills on May 11, 2015, 12:22:06 PM
apparently there are lot of folks who have installed a bypass switch that dumps the whole system for times when it's needed.  I might look into that.  I might be ok with it on the road and during regular driving but snow getting to the big roads or my freaking driveway, which is a small rally course, I'd like it turned off please.  maybe I can find someone to do that.  otherwise, the car is a bit of a hoot.  I just like the ~30mpg w/ AWD.  Not easy to come by.

not sure if it that easy, I checked into it on my '11 RAM 1500 and there are a couple systems at work. they pitch/yaw sensor is the one that takes over and you can't simply shut it off, you would have to switch it to a series of resistors to fool it in to thinking all was well?  according to the Chrysler tech anyway? I would love to have a "regular" truck off road.

Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Vulcanbill on May 12, 2015, 12:05:12 PM
apparently there are lot of folks who have installed a bypass switch that dumps the whole system for times when it's needed.  I might look into that.  I might be ok with it on the road and during regular driving but snow getting to the big roads or my freaking driveway, which is a small rally course, I'd like it turned off please.  maybe I can find someone to do that.  otherwise, the car is a bit of a hoot.  I just like the ~30mpg w/ AWD.  Not easy to come by.

not sure if it that easy, I checked into it on my '11 RAM 1500 and there are a couple systems at work. they pitch/yaw sensor is the one that takes over and you can't simply shut it off, you would have to switch it to a series of resistors to fool it in to thinking all was well?  according to the Chrysler tech anyway? I would love to have a "regular" truck off road.

i read that the only thing it kicks off is a false trans temp light.  Otherwise, it seems that it is that simple.  However, if you don't do the right steps in the right order, the system will actually come back on even w/ the fuse disabled.  Creepy.

I'm pretty OK with the dodge version.  The nanny will at least let you get sideways up to about 5500 RPM then she'll shut you down.  Just enough to get a nice step out on cold salty roads but not quite enough to do the same on warm dry roads.  Nothing like having the nanny snap your tail end back into position before you wanted her to.  I have words about her.  :(
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Vulcanbill on August 10, 2016, 11:38:38 AM
Hello 100,000 miles

Goodbye warranty
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: chornbe on August 10, 2016, 02:13:45 PM
Hello 100,000 miles

Goodbye warranty

w00t ! / ? :)
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Vulcanbill on August 09, 2017, 10:53:38 AM
130K this morning. Changing over to the 9/80 schedule at work saved me quite a few miles I guess. 

Still going strong.  No issues.  Occasionally, the airbag light will come on and the sensor will indicate the passenger bag is off when someone is actually in the seat but it resets when you restart the car.  Apparently that's a fairly common Subaru thing.  Otherwise, nothing to report except an abundance of start / go / stop.  The AWD is priceless on my driveway. 

Carry on.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Cablebandit on August 09, 2017, 02:25:20 PM
The airbag light is a feature on Subarus.   :D

The good thing is they thought enough to not use a bulb and instead used an LED so it will never burn out.  >:(  I took the instrument cluster apart and added black electrical tape on the backside of the cluster to solve the problem.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Bounce on August 09, 2017, 05:21:44 PM
Odd... the STi has a button to turn off the nanny. 3 settings: default, sorta on, off.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Vulcanbill on August 10, 2017, 09:16:16 AM
For that money, there better be a way to tap into that performance.  If I bought a car like the STI and couldn't get to all the power or potential, I'd have a freakin FIT. 
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Vulcanbill on March 05, 2018, 12:25:46 PM
Aaaaaaaand 150K
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: CLAY on March 07, 2018, 08:03:37 AM
My wife has a '15 CRV AWD with CVT- she's at 55K and no problems.

Even after a couple years of having it, when I accelerate it still feels like I'm losing the tranny.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Virginian on March 07, 2018, 08:48:14 AM
I have a Mitsubishi Outlander with a CVT, only 22k with zero problems. 4 cyl weed whacker motor, seats 7, load of cargo room. Love it!
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Vulcanbill on March 07, 2018, 10:00:53 AM
My wife has a '15 CRV AWD with CVT- she's at 55K and no problems.

Even after a couple years of having it, when I accelerate it still feels like I'm losing the tranny.

Yeah, that sound is just not natural.  I've found that the fix for that is the radio.  :)

Since I'm changing the oil every 6 weeks, the value of the filter on the top of the motor combined w/ the Femoto valve I've installed making for a 10 min oil change makes any perception of the CVT being weird totally go away.  I absolutely LOVE the location of the oil filter.  The path to get to the eyebrow lights and the fog lights?  notsomuch
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Bounce on March 07, 2018, 10:40:57 AM
After the 03 WRX and the 08 STi, the EFI, non-turbo, Impreza 5-door hatch with CVT gets better mpg but accelerates like a dog turd. Well, probably like normal A to B drivers think is normal.

Meanwhile, since Subaru has let the STi go stale since 2008 and has been updating the WRX all this time so that the gap is smaller and the price difference less easy to justify... No STi any more. Now a new 2017 Audi RS3. Less drama than the STi but more HP delivered effortlessly. "You want 'all that'? Okay. Ho hum. Next?" No CVT on this thing. Manual transmission with automatic, dual clutch. You think it's automatic but button choices change the shift points or you can go flappy paddles, there are subtle differences in how it feels that let you know it's not a slushbox.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: miles on March 07, 2018, 12:37:22 PM
My wife has a '15 CRV AWD with CVT- she's at 55K and no problems.

Even after a couple years of having it, when I accelerate it still feels like I'm losing the tranny.


To me it sounds and feels like a slipping clutch.  My wife's CVT car is almost ten years old now, so I've had time to get used to it.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: squeezer on March 08, 2018, 03:06:59 PM
My wife has a '15 CRV AWD with CVT- she's at 55K and no problems.

Even after a couple years of having it, when I accelerate it still feels like I'm losing the tranny.


To me it sounds and feels like a slipping clutch.  My wife's CVT car is almost ten years old now, so I've had time to get used to it.

That's exactly what my wife's CVT (Subaru Forester) feels like to me. After 3 years, I'm not used to it yet.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Vulcanbill on March 08, 2018, 03:29:26 PM
it's quirky but after 150K miles, it's proven it's function.  It works.  It will pull me up the hills at a perfectly acceptable clip and it bops along a 75-80 w/out issue...I hear.  I still think it sounds terrible but until it starts smoking and stops moving, I'm good with it.  That's partly why I keep posting up mileage markers.  "Look, it's still going"
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: miles on March 08, 2018, 09:37:32 PM
We have two cars with CVTs, and both are nearing the 200K mileage mark with absolutely zero transmission issues of any kind. 

The tech is solid.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Vulcanbill on June 28, 2018, 09:40:39 AM
aaaaaaaand 160K
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Bounce on June 28, 2018, 11:19:18 AM
Got a used 13 Impreza wagon (NA). Hate the CVT. I've driven loaners of the same age without CVT and they are much peppier.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: bungie4 on June 28, 2018, 11:55:28 AM
Well I guess all CVT's aren't shit. Just the ones in Kia's, Chryslers, Nissans, Fords, Subaru's, Toyota's, Mitsubishi's, Honda's oh hell. Go look for yourselves.

Glad your experiences differ though.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: PatM on June 28, 2018, 12:08:48 PM
I have an '18 Subie with a CVT, I agree, it's different...
It's not as smooth as a real auto trans and it's not quite a manual.
The fake shifting points are sometimes disconcerting but I wouldn't want to do without them.
The shift paddles are a great conversation starter, but in real life they're useless.
 
But, you get used to it. No big deal.  :shrug:
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Vulcanbill on October 19, 2018, 02:57:15 PM
170K on Monday
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: miles on October 19, 2018, 04:07:14 PM
I have an '18 Subie with a CVT, I agree, it's different...
It's not as smooth as a real auto trans and it's not quite a manual.
The fake shifting points are sometimes disconcerting but I wouldn't want to do without them.
The shift paddles are a great conversation starter, but in real life they're useless.
 
But, you get used to it. No big deal.  :shrug:



I think it's funny how they've added fake shift point in some cars with CVTs.  Neither of my CVT cars have them.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Vulcanbill on February 19, 2019, 05:32:41 PM
180K
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Bounce on February 20, 2019, 10:37:11 AM
OTOH the dual-clutch auto-shifting manual in my Audi RS3 is the tits except when the anti-slip traction control fights with the ground-pounding hp trying to get to the pavement. Either ease in to the first few feet before punching it or turn off TC.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: miles on February 21, 2019, 12:17:52 AM
Heh.  My little Nissan Frontier RWD never has any problems with any sort of anti-slip.  With all the rain we've been having here I've had plenty of practice accelerating very, very smoothly so as to not active the unlimited-slip differential.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: zer0netgain on February 21, 2019, 06:09:52 AM
All I can offer is this....do your research.

The CVT is notorious for being a bad idea, BUT some manufacturers make it work.  Toyota is one company whose CVTs hold up with no issues.

I've not been fond of Subaru because of those I know who own one, there were lots of maintenance issues that simply should not exist in this day and age of technological achievement and engineering.  I don't think you should pay over $20K for any car only to need expensive repairs or maintenance work every couple of years when competitors make engines without those issues.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Bounce on February 21, 2019, 10:42:29 AM
All I can offer is this....do your research.

The CVT is notorious for being a bad idea, BUT some manufacturers make it work.  Toyota is one company whose CVTs hold up with no issues.

I've not been fond of Subaru because of those I know who own one, there were lots of maintenance issues that simply should not exist in this day and age of technological achievement and engineering.  I don't think you should pay over $20K for any car only to need expensive repairs or maintenance work every couple of years when competitors make engines without those issues.
I guess we're lucky. 2003 WRX, 2008 STi, 2013 Imprezza hatch. No issues except for the recent (covered) recall.

On the issue of traction control issues (heh). I suspect the difference between your Nissan and my RS3 is that the RS3 is putting much more HP/Tq to the ground (I had to look it up... 2.7 times as much) so that, as the power breaks loose the AWD from the line, the TC kicks in and fights back. It's a learning curve. If you're going to hoon, then you need to set up the drive modes right. When you're driving something that doesn't hoon then that doesn't come into play.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: coho on February 21, 2019, 12:21:13 PM
Nothing increases the speed, durability, off road prowess and general hoonability of a vehicle better than rental papers in the console.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Andrew on February 21, 2019, 07:46:40 PM
Nothing increases the speed, durability, off road prowess and general hoonability of a vehicle better than rental papers in the console.

Did you buy the added insurance?? if so Game ON!!
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: miles on February 21, 2019, 09:18:48 PM
On the issue of traction control issues (heh). I suspect the difference between your Nissan and my RS3 is that the RS3 is putting much more HP/Tq to the ground (I had to look it up... 2.7 times as much) so that, as the power breaks loose the AWD from the line, the TC kicks in and fights back. It's a learning curve. If you're going to hoon, then you need to set up the drive modes right. When you're driving something that doesn't hoon then that doesn't come into play.


Of course, the other issue is that my Nissan doesn't have even the tiniest hint of traction control at all, and very little weight on the drive wheels.  I can step the back out any time I want, and if the roads are wet I can spin a back wheel all day long.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: PatM on February 21, 2019, 10:41:54 PM
I got a letter from Subaru the other day, they're now extending the warranty on the CVT to 10 years.
No major issues with my second Subaru or or the other five that were owned at one time or another in my family.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Vulcanbill on February 22, 2019, 08:50:10 AM
I've only ever owned more than one of any brand of car and that was a Volvo.  The Subaru might very well be the next vehicle where I choose to buy a second one.  I'd prefer to have an STI or at least a mildly build WRX but I'd probably only buy a hatchback which is good cuz I could only afford a used one anyway.  But trying to find a little old lady church going STI will be tough.  :) 
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Bounce on February 22, 2019, 01:58:38 PM
With the changes to the WRX over the years (and juxtaposed stagnation of the STi) the premium for the STi isn't justified from 2008 and onward. The new model year (2019) may see a limited run (read even costlier) STi that's been lightly breathed on. The problem is that they are frozen in carbonite with their opposed 4 when they could drop in an opposed 6 and create more room for growth. The limited run higher-output STi is still under 400hp while costing as much as its competitors that are often more than 400hp.

Overall I've been happy with our Subies (2003 wrx, 2008 sti, 2013 impreza hatch) as have been my wife's sister's family (forester, etc.). But I would lean toward their yoots or NA sedans now-a-days.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Vulcanbill on March 08, 2019, 09:25:44 AM
It begins, as was inevitable...

I was driving to work Monday or Tuesday and the car started "shifting" when it shouldn't.  Nothing stupid, just didn't need that downshift but it was there anyway.  I moved to the right lane and waited.  Dashboard goes Christmas tree on me.  Hill hold assist, ABS, TCS, check engine, AT Trans Temp and cruise control lights all come on with the last 2 flashing.  OK.  Nothing is red and I can live without all the nanny crap anyway.  Found someone w/ an ODBII reader at work and got a "TCC Pressure Control Solenoid circuit low" code.  Did a little research.  It's not pretty.  Cleared the codes but then it threw them again on the way home.  Took the car in yesterday and I called today to find out its a 1500 dollar job.  Ouch.  The car has nearly 182K miles and I've literally put 500 dollars into repairs in all that time.  So, amortized over the life of the car, it's not terrible.  Just sucks that it's tax time and we just dropped a bunch of money on a fence and skid steer rental.  Whatever.  It's not 22K in taxes owed.  I'm not a huge fan of paying dealer prices but they've always been awesome and we got a brand new Forester w/ 72 miles as a loaner, no questions. 

Funny part.  None of our vehicles have any of this intelligent crap so when Kim started driving this Forester with all the new stuff activated, she freaked out.  The car was trying to steer for her, then it hit the brakes when she didn't want it to and then it died at the stoplight.  She was certain it was demon possessed and wanted to kill it.  Listening to her tell the story, I nearly peed.  She's clever tho.  She figured out how to turn some of it off and I'm sure she'll turn the rest of before embarking on her day today.  Still funny. 
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Vulcanbill on June 25, 2019, 08:12:29 PM
190k. AC is out. I suffer.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Baxter on June 26, 2019, 03:14:36 PM
The car was trying to steer for her, then it hit the brakes when she didn't want it to and then it died at the stoplight.  She was certain it was demon possessed and wanted to kill it.

A friend had this stuff on her SUV, and deactivated it when she was trying to teach her son to drive.  Essentially, she came to see that the car's trying to take control meant that her son was having to fight the car.  She thought the safety features would likely cause him to crash, and they also were counterproductive with teaching him how to control the car.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Vulcanbill on February 25, 2020, 10:35:12 AM
205K miles.  Changed the oil last night.  5...maybe 7 minutes.  Transmission still makes noise.  Car still goes.  Kim cleaned out the inside.  Freaked me out. 
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: miles on February 25, 2020, 02:12:42 PM
It begins, as was inevitable...

I was driving to work Monday or Tuesday and the car started "shifting" when it shouldn't.  Nothing stupid, just didn't need that downshift but it was there anyway.  I moved to the right lane and waited.  Dashboard goes Christmas tree on me.  Hill hold assist, ABS, TCS, check engine, AT Trans Temp and cruise control lights all come on with the last 2 flashing.  OK.  Nothing is red and I can live without all the nanny crap anyway.  Found someone w/ an ODBII reader at work and got a "TCC Pressure Control Solenoid circuit low" code.  Did a little research.  It's not pretty.  Cleared the codes but then it threw them again on the way home.  Took the car in yesterday and I called today to find out its a 1500 dollar job.  Ouch.  The car has nearly 182K miles and I've literally put 500 dollars into repairs in all that time.  So, amortized over the life of the car, it's not terrible.  Just sucks that it's tax time and we just dropped a bunch of money on a fence and skid steer rental.  Whatever.  It's not 22K in taxes owed.  I'm not a huge fan of paying dealer prices but they've always been awesome and we got a brand new Forester w/ 72 miles as a loaner, no questions. 

Funny part.  None of our vehicles have any of this intelligent crap so when Kim started driving this Forester with all the new stuff activated, she freaked out.  The car was trying to steer for her, then it hit the brakes when she didn't want it to and then it died at the stoplight.  She was certain it was demon possessed and wanted to kill it.  Listening to her tell the story, I nearly peed.  She's clever tho.  She figured out how to turn some of it off and I'm sure she'll turn the rest of before embarking on her day today.  Still funny.



A lot of current cars die at stop lights these days, then restart the moment you hit the gas to go.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Bounce on February 26, 2020, 09:36:08 AM
My only Subaru regret was getting the 2013 Impreza Sport LTD with CVT. Of all the loaners and models we've owned, this is the only to be so dogtastic.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Vulcanbill on May 27, 2020, 01:06:26 PM
Oil change last night.  As usual, took about 7 minutes most of which was oil draining.  210,075 miles.  Transmission still making noise.  Transmission still making the car go. 
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: ChrisFZ1 on May 27, 2020, 04:48:27 PM
I have an '07 Toyota Corolla with 266K, standard transmission.  Transmission make no noise. Original transmission and clutch. Car still go strong.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: zer0netgain on May 28, 2020, 05:05:01 AM
Toyota’s CVTs are solid.  Can’t say that about anyone else.  Since the Prius was going to have CVT and Prius was a flagship line, Toyota couldn’t afford a bum transmission.  If they change a design, they improve on it and don’t put out something questionable.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: melville on May 28, 2020, 06:50:26 AM
It begins, as was inevitable...

I was driving to work Monday or Tuesday and the car started "shifting" when it shouldn't.  Nothing stupid, just didn't need that downshift but it was there anyway.  I moved to the right lane and waited.  Dashboard goes Christmas tree on me.  Hill hold assist, ABS, TCS, check engine, AT Trans Temp and cruise control lights all come on with the last 2 flashing.  OK.  Nothing is red and I can live without all the nanny crap anyway.  Found someone w/ an ODBII reader at work and got a "TCC Pressure Control Solenoid circuit low" code.  Did a little research.  It's not pretty.  Cleared the codes but then it threw them again on the way home.  Took the car in yesterday and I called today to find out its a 1500 dollar job.  Ouch.  The car has nearly 182K miles and I've literally put 500 dollars into repairs in all that time.  So, amortized over the life of the car, it's not terrible.  Just sucks that it's tax time and we just dropped a bunch of money on a fence and skid steer rental.  Whatever.  It's not 22K in taxes owed.  I'm not a huge fan of paying dealer prices but they've always been awesome and we got a brand new Forester w/ 72 miles as a loaner, no questions. 

Funny part.  None of our vehicles have any of this intelligent crap so when Kim started driving this Forester with all the new stuff activated, she freaked out.  The car was trying to steer for her, then it hit the brakes when she didn't want it to and then it died at the stoplight.  She was certain it was demon possessed and wanted to kill it.  Listening to her tell the story, I nearly peed.  She's clever tho.  She figured out how to turn some of it off and I'm sure she'll turn the rest of before embarking on her day today.  Still funny.



A lot of current cars die at stop lights these days, then restart the moment you hit the gas to go.

And when I hear that as a pedestrian, my first thought is "Oh, you're learning stick!  Good for you, you'll get it eventually!"
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Vulcanbill on May 28, 2020, 08:16:54 AM
It begins, as was inevitable...

I was driving to work Monday or Tuesday and the car started "shifting" when it shouldn't.  Nothing stupid, just didn't need that downshift but it was there anyway.  I moved to the right lane and waited.  Dashboard goes Christmas tree on me.  Hill hold assist, ABS, TCS, check engine, AT Trans Temp and cruise control lights all come on with the last 2 flashing.  OK.  Nothing is red and I can live without all the nanny crap anyway.  Found someone w/ an ODBII reader at work and got a "TCC Pressure Control Solenoid circuit low" code.  Did a little research.  It's not pretty.  Cleared the codes but then it threw them again on the way home.  Took the car in yesterday and I called today to find out its a 1500 dollar job.  Ouch.  The car has nearly 182K miles and I've literally put 500 dollars into repairs in all that time.  So, amortized over the life of the car, it's not terrible.  Just sucks that it's tax time and we just dropped a bunch of money on a fence and skid steer rental.  Whatever.  It's not 22K in taxes owed.  I'm not a huge fan of paying dealer prices but they've always been awesome and we got a brand new Forester w/ 72 miles as a loaner, no questions. 

Funny part.  None of our vehicles have any of this intelligent crap so when Kim started driving this Forester with all the new stuff activated, she freaked out.  The car was trying to steer for her, then it hit the brakes when she didn't want it to and then it died at the stoplight.  She was certain it was demon possessed and wanted to kill it.  Listening to her tell the story, I nearly peed.  She's clever tho.  She figured out how to turn some of it off and I'm sure she'll turn the rest of before embarking on her day today.  Still funny.



A lot of current cars die at stop lights these days, then restart the moment you hit the gas to go.

And when I hear that as a pedestrian, my first thought is "Oh, you're learning stick!  Good for you, you'll get it eventually!"

Gotta wonder if the trade off in gas mileage is worth what I would bet is reduced starter / battery life.  Time will tell I suppose.  Change is bad, mkay?
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Cablebandit on May 28, 2020, 08:31:05 AM
Ours tells us how much fuel has been saved.  I'm not worried about the starter, I'm more concerned with the engine start considering the oils used these days are so thin.  Also if you need to scoot out of the way in a hurry starting the engine takes critical time.


I turn the stupid feature off ever time I get in the car.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Vulcanbill on May 28, 2020, 12:25:27 PM
Ours tells us how much fuel has been saved.  I'm not worried about the starter, I'm more concerned with the engine start considering the oils used these days are so thin.  Also if you need to scoot out of the way in a hurry starting the engine takes critical time.


I turn the stupid feature off ever time I get in the car.

You could probably make a mint if you could create a doohicky that turns it off permanently.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Cablebandit on May 28, 2020, 12:30:17 PM
It won't activate if you ease into a stop slow enough.

My work neighbor has a Mercedes and she said her's learned how she drives and after turning it off a million time it no longer activates.  I told her it a Mercedes....it probably just broke.   ;D
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: stevent on May 28, 2020, 05:45:03 PM
I had a Ford Edge for a loaner when our Highlander was in the shop. It had that lane assist-stoppy startty nonsense too. Easy enough to turn it off but a pain in the butt all the same. I think it had the automatic braking too but I didn't have the nerve to try it just in case.

I suppose it has it's use but I'd get tired of it pretty quickly once the novelty wore off.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: coho on May 28, 2020, 06:05:13 PM
I had a Ford Edge for a loaner when our Highlander was in the shop. It had that lane assist-stoppy startty nonsense too. Easy enough to turn it off but a pain in the butt all the same. I think it had the automatic braking too but I didn't have the nerve to try it just in case.

I suppose it has it's use but I'd get tired of it pretty quickly once the novelty wore off.

Or you'd get used to it and no longer notice.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Bounce on May 29, 2020, 09:18:07 AM
I had a Ford Edge for a loaner when our Highlander was in the shop. It had that lane assist-stoppy startty nonsense too. Easy enough to turn it off but a pain in the butt all the same. I think it had the automatic braking too but I didn't have the nerve to try it just in case.

I suppose it has it's use but I'd get tired of it pretty quickly once the novelty wore off.

Or you'd get used to it and no longer notice.

I had a loaner Subaru once while ours was being serviced. The auto-distancing thing defaulted to off. I could easily see someone turn it on and get used to it long enough then forget to turn it on that one time and WHAM!

Had the stop/start on a recent Toyota loaner. Ack! I hated that.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Black Hills on May 29, 2020, 09:31:50 AM
them damn automatic transmissions. if you can't drive a manual you shouldn't be on the road......... err...uh,  nevermind...
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Skee on May 29, 2020, 11:25:41 AM
them damn automatic transmissions. if you can't drive a manual you shouldn't be on the road......... err...uh,  nevermind...

I’m a good bit more reactionary; if you can’t ride, you probably can’t drive well either. 

Given the level of ability on this forum, I’m not surprised at the level of resistance to electronic driver aids.  They really work well.  Many of them were standard features on rentals in EU long before they started showing up on new cars in the States. 

I remember the first time I encountered lane departure assist.  I felt a little resistance changing lanes on the autostrada and pulled off at the next exit to check the steering and the tires.  We had to change the screen language to English and read the instructions.  But it really makes highwayman driving a breeze, but they are annoying in town.  I won’t buy a new car without all these features.

I doubt they’ll ever get widespread adoption among Americans.  No idiot machine is going to annoy me when I’m drifting out of my lane. 

One feature I haven’t seen on America cars - one that I’d like to have on my motorcycle - is called a limitator in some languages. You can set one or 2 speed limits on your dash.  When you exceed the first one,you hear a pleasant chime.  Throttle input stops when you reach the second.   Really nice for maintaining your sanity in towns where there are likely to be speed traps.  Turn it off on the highway
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: naustin on May 29, 2020, 12:48:52 PM
I have an '18 WRX with 3 pedals for when i need a cage.   It it not an STI  - just the base 6-speed.  The only option on the window sticker is the Short-Throw shifter.   No electronic B/S, except anti-lock brakes and cruise control.   I love it.   Everything is mechanical and analog - and it is wonderful.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: stevent on May 29, 2020, 01:51:36 PM
them damn automatic transmissions. if you can't drive a manual you shouldn't be on the road......... err...uh,  nevermind...

How about that electronic fuel injection and ignition too? The mechanical fuel injection and ignition on my '71 Squareback worked just fine damn it. $20. for a set of Injector points and a couple of bucks for a cap, rotor, ignition points and condenser and 1/2 an hour later you're fahren fahren fahren on das Autobahn.

No gad dam $140.p/h shop labor either...

 :gerg: 
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Cablebandit on May 29, 2020, 03:43:02 PM


Given the [self percieved] level of ability on this forum,
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Black Hills on May 29, 2020, 03:46:08 PM
them damn automatic transmissions. if you can't drive a manual you shouldn't be on the road......... err...uh,  nevermind...

How about that electronic fuel injection and ignition too? The mechanical fuel injection and ignition on my '71 Squareback worked just fine damn it. $20. for a set of Injector points and a couple of bucks for a cap, rotor, ignition points and condenser and 1/2 an hour later you're fahren fahren fahren on das Autobahn.

No gad dam $140.p/h shop labor either...

 :gerg:

and don't get me started on them damn radial tires! they don't work like bias ply in the snow.
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: stevent on May 29, 2020, 07:33:16 PM
them damn automatic transmissions. if you can't drive a manual you shouldn't be on the road......... err...uh,  nevermind...

How about that electronic fuel injection and ignition too? The mechanical fuel injection and ignition on my '71 Squareback worked just fine damn it. $20. for a set of Injector points and a couple of bucks for a cap, rotor, ignition points and condenser and 1/2 an hour later you're fahren fahren fahren on das Autobahn.

No gad dam $140.p/h shop labor either...

 :gerg:

and don't get me started on them damn radial tires! they don't work like bias ply in the snow.

How the hell are you supposed to know how much air's in 'em? sons o' bitches look half flat all the time!

 :angry:
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Skee on May 29, 2020, 08:49:29 PM


Given the [self percieved] level of ability on this forum,

Most of us can ride better than that
Title: Re: Car shopping and the CVT
Post by: Bounce on May 30, 2020, 09:57:04 AM
I have an '18 WRX with 3 pedals for when i need a cage.   It it not an STI  - just the base 6-speed.  The only option on the window sticker is the Short-Throw shifter.   No electronic B/S, except anti-lock brakes and cruise control.   I love it.   Everything is mechanical and analog - and it is wonderful.

My '03 Bugeye was a 5 speed. The '08 STi was a 6. Had to put in a Kartboys short-throw shifter in the WRX but the STi was copacetic. STi has traction control and you could see it tuck an under-steer back to normal with the push of the button (from off to on). Since '08, Subie has let the STi languish while heaping improvements into the WRX that have closed the gap so much that the STi can't be justified for the price difference anymore.